Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[dcutman]

This is a photo purportedly showing a debris field taken by a

passenger on an MH flight from Beijing to Kuala Lumpur that

safely landed in KL this morning. Story link is below the photo.

6aca1bebjw1ee97m3krz1j20xc18gtdf.jpg

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1444179/new-possible-sighting-debris-sea-china-sends-warships-join-search-missing

"The poster, whose profile information says he is a banker working for China Minsheng Bank in Beijing, wrote that he took the snaps from his window at a height of 11,000 metres, at about 6.45am on Sunday."

It really looks like debris of the missing plane.

How can the authorities not know where this is, when a flight passenger had made such a photo on same route?

Unbelievable.-

Sirchai....could be debris from the plane but one major thing makes me question this...

Why is the debris of such uniform size & shape? One would think that debris would be

of different sizes right? However...if true...then it's a whole new ball game...one for the

better I hope.

Good point, looks like the photo was taken in dark hours and is city lights. To me anyway.

.

[PPEist]

Or it could just be a plain old communication system failure but then it wouldn't explain why they had to turn back.

Unless all the systems failed and they tried to turn back to make it to the closest point of land to attempt a landing but couldn't make it back to land.

[sirchai]

This is a photo purportedly showing a debris field taken by a

passenger on an MH flight from Beijing to Kuala Lumpur that

safely landed in KL this morning. Story link is below the photo.

6aca1bebjw1ee97m3krz1j20xc18gtdf.jpg

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1444179/new-possible-sighting-debris-sea-china-sends-warships-join-search-missing

"The poster, whose profile information says he is a banker working for China Minsheng Bank in Beijing, wrote that he took the snaps from his window at a height of 11,000 metres, at about 6.45am on Sunday."

It really looks like debris of the missing plane.

How can the authorities not know where this is, when a flight passenger had made such a photo on same route?

Unbelievable.-

Sirchai....could be debris from the plane but one major thing makes me question this...

Why is the debris of such uniform size & shape? One would think that debris would be

of different sizes right? However...if true...then it's a whole new ball game...one for the

better I hope.

You're right, but considering that the photographer wasn't a liar, what else could it be? Tried some Photoshop, but can't get a better image.

But it does look like a city, town, especially when photo was taken at night.

[laolover88]

South China Morning Post is also saying that a Chinese military radar source says a plane simply cannot disappear in an area which is heavily covered by radar, even if it exploded. The two planes that are known to have disappeared

were the AF flight and one that headed out from Angola into the Atlantic. In both cases they were outside radar

coverage. I should surmise, too, that every inch of the S China sea is under continuous satellite observation.

Sadly, I fear, there is a lot not being disclosed which must be heartbreaking for families.

[Tywais]

Or it could just be a plain old communication system failure but then it wouldn't explain why they had to turn back.

Unless all the systems failed and they tried to turn back to make it to the closest point of land to attempt a landing but couldn't make it back to land.

There is also the emergency transponder channel of 7700. When that is set to this channel it is considered an emergency and all available resources are made available to the aircraft. Would appear not even time to set that. Also, channel 7500 indicates a hijacking in progress. Considering the security of the cabin door to the cockpit there would have been plenty of time to set that channel.

*********************************** From Forbes site ***********************************

Crews also have the ability to communicate with their airline through discrete radio channels. There is usually at least one other back up communication system that allows communication between the ground stations and the flight crew. Other aircraft systems commonly used by many airlines also communicate with commercial services that monitor other parts of the aircraft, such as engines, and report that data back to the airline. This data is then used to monitor and improve aircraft system performance.

For all communication to suddenly cease without a distress signal usually indicates a catastrophic failure of the aircraft , not allowing time for the crew to communicate either by radio or through the aircraft transponder. Modern airliners have multiple radios for voice communication and the transponder can be used to send signals that indicate different problems with the aircraft (for example a discrete code for hijacking). A complete electrical failure is extremely unlikely because of redundancies in the system, especially the ram air turbine which uses the power of the wind generated by the aircraft’s motion in flight to generate electricity which would power critical navigation and communication systems, as well as flight controls. But even if the aircraft had a complete electrical failure, the aircraft could have continued to fly. If the aircraft was out of radar range when a failure occurred – but able to fly – it would eventually fly to an area with radar coverage and be picked up by air traffic control radar.

Forbes

[phuketrichard]

A photo taken at 30,000' and u can see wreckage?? get real

i know banks have silent alarms,

wouldn't, after 9/11, airplanes be equipped with them as well?

only thing we know 100% is the plane went down, where?? Only those in power will know ( that control the media)

and if we will be told the truth.......

[wprime]

Only a small point, but if a terrorist group wanted to have a pop at China, why would they bring down a Malaysian aircraft?

It was code shared with China Southern airlines and the vast majority of passengers were Chinese.

Plus all 4 booked it as CZ748, not all airlines are exactly clear when it's a codeshare flight. They may have thought they were flying on a Chjna Southern aircraft.

Most passengers were booked as CZ748.

[Tchooptip]

Well , i feel a bit odd about this incident. First of all i could not login to my normal account and secondly.

yesterday night i woke up with a nightmare and i heard a high noice , most probl a coconut crashed to my toilet roof (outside toilet)

I was totally shaking and i was thinking right away that it most have happen a plane crash.

This happen to me also same time when Air France plane crashed outside Brazil. I woke up the same night and had a pulse high as hell.

Anyhow since Air France crash i have studdied airplanes and crashes for a few years ...I can with sertenly "no expert" but my idea is some big explosion happen in the air, + the decompression of the plane boddy and everything, So basicly you will not find a single thing after this.

Cos no one had a chance to send SOS even the automaticly system in place if something would happen in the cabin pressure and the pilots cant send it manually.

Malaysia Airlines has a good safety record. Its worst-ever crash occurred in 1977, when 93 passengers and seven crew perished in a hijacking and subsequent crash in southern Malaysia, so this time... not impossible at all? ...I was a passenger in a 777 of Malaysian Airlines a few month ago its kind of even more troubling.

RIP every one, and may the families have some kind of explanation rapidly

[Credo]

The stolen passports are of interest, but a reasonably good, well-funded terrorist network would not be using stolen passports, maybe fake passports, but not stolen ones. I also doubt that any spy agencies would use stolen passports, at least those that have been reported.

Stolen passports, are probably being used by people smugglers. A European or US passport will get you pretty much anywhere, especially if you stay out of Europe or the US (where you will get caught). The general modus operendi is to transit a country and then destroy the passport after leaving for the country of your destination.

The authorities will be looking at who had them and where they were going.

There is also the possibility of a newer, less well-funded terrorist organization.

The passport issue is the most visible problem and it will be pursued to the very end.

[coma]

The stolen passports are of interest, but a reasonably good, well-funded terrorist network would not be using stolen passports, maybe fake passports, but not stolen ones. I also doubt that any spy agencies would use stolen passports, at least those that have been reported.

Stolen passports, are probably being used by people smugglers. A European or US passport will get you pretty much anywhere, especially if you stay out of Europe or the US (where you will get caught). The general modus operendi is to transit a country and then destroy the passport after leaving for the country of your destination.

The authorities will be looking at who had them and where they were going.

There is also the possibility of a newer, less well-funded terrorist organization.

The passport issue is the most visible problem and it will be pursued to the very end.

People smuggling into China ? Would there be such demand to smuggle 'ordinary' people into China ?

[Lite Beer]

RT@cctvnews: Malaysian authorities on #MH370:1 US navy ship; 3 vessels from China; 3 from Singapore; 5 from Indonesia; 1 from Thailand involved in search

[Chicog]

A photo taken at 30,000' and u can see wreckage?? get real

Precisely. You think the pilots, who after all fly for the same company and have lost colleagues, would not be glued to the windows looking as well, and would not have reported it as soon as they saw it?

I call BS.

[Lite Beer]

Malaysia says 'possibility' lost airliner turned back

KUALA LUMPUR, March 9, 2014 (AFP) - Malaysian authorities were looking into the "possibility" that an airliner which vanished with 239 people on board had attempted to turn back, the country's air force chief said Sunday.

"There is a distinct possibility the airplane did a turn-back, deviating from the course," said General Rodzali Daud, citing radar data.
"One of the possibilities is that it was returning to Kuala Lumpur."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-03-09

[Chicog]

Only a small point, but if a terrorist group wanted to have a pop at China, why would they bring down a Malaysian aircraft?

It was code shared with China Southern airlines and the vast majority of passengers were Chinese.

Plus all 4 booked it as CZ748, not all airlines are exactly clear when it's a codeshare flight. They may have thought they were flying on a Chjna Southern aircraft.

Most passengers were booked as CZ748.

Wow, so clever enough to bring down a plane but not smart enough to know it belongs to a different airline.

We are entering a whole new world of terrorist stupidity.

[coma]

New information / theory that the aircraft turned back before it went missing rules out catastrophic failure.

[Tchooptip]

I fear there is no way that anybody can have survived this. To take a different angle for once, there is a lot that remains to be done for the safety of airplanes when crash landing on sea. The structure is just not stiff enough to survive the impact generated when the airplane touches water, even supposing that it comes in at a relatively favourable angle and airspeed. The engines in their usual hanging construction provide an immediate anchor effect that will drag the cabin down. They would need to be moved elsewhere, or fitted with an emergency jettisoning device, together with the outer half of the wing. All this of course costs money, and accidents are very rare, too rare to warrant any substantial modification...

All sounds great but quite impossible.

Which is why I usually smile when they do their bit before take off telling you how to use a life vest.

Like you said even with as nice a touchdown as possible the fact that the water will give way will imply it will never be

able to do a wheel up landing as they have done on foamed runways during a landing gear failure.

It is just impossible + the stall speed of something this size is too high to make a difference between any favorable angle

Approach speed for this plane is 133 knots

They basically need to fly it onto the deck at which point the water is going to give unlike a hardtop.

Not to mention an open sea is anything but flat & swells can easily be 20'+ tall

Does not matter how stiff something is if speed & weight ultimately overcome that on impact.

Something is going to catch if not an engine as you said a wing tip etc. & it is going to tumble & tear itself apart.

The good news is even with a terrible event like this one,

Air travel is probably still the safest mode of distance travel

in the world.

If you said so it must be true!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

[Credo]

The stolen passports are of interest, but a reasonably good, well-funded terrorist network would not be using stolen passports, maybe fake passports, but not stolen ones. I also doubt that any spy agencies would use stolen passports, at least those that have been reported.

Stolen passports, are probably being used by people smugglers. A European or US passport will get you pretty much anywhere, especially if you stay out of Europe or the US (where you will get caught). The general modus operendi is to transit a country and then destroy the passport after leaving for the country of your destination.

The authorities will be looking at who had them and where they were going.

There is also the possibility of a newer, less well-funded terrorist organization.

The passport issue is the most visible problem and it will be pursued to the very end.

People smuggling into China ? Would there be such demand to smuggle 'ordinary' people into China ?

If they were being smuggled, China might not have been their final destination. They would transit through China and on to the country they wished to go to. There isn't the problem of passport/immigration checks when transiting. Malaysia, along with Indonesia, are countries where people transit on their way to other countries. There are networks in place to assist them, I would assume.

But, all this is speculation and needs confirmation. My only point is that fake passports would not necessarily indicate terrorism.

I once read that there can be large electrical bursts that emanate from the highest levels of the atmosphere. They are sort of like super lightening strikes. Is this a possibility?

[wiesner]

they could use the stolen passports to purchase tickets, and go through securtity, and their real passports through immigration.

[sirchai]

they could use the stolen passports to purchase tickets, and go through securtity, and their real passports through immigration.

Let's hope they find that plane, or the rests of it soon.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies deleted.

[wiesner]

They have the passenger manifest. They will also have the boarding card and seating records. Also the baggage checks.Wonder if these apparent impostors checked in together and or were sitting together? Presumably the passports were scanned and presumably passport control checked the immigration/emigration stamps? PS Can the crew or other person on aplane 'cloak' it by turning everything off? Lots more to know.

they could buy tickets with stolen passports that were doctored with their picture and go through security, could use their real passports to go through immigration.

[Credo]

they could use the stolen passports to purchase tickets, and go through securtity, and their real passports through immigration.

I think the names would have to match up and they wouldn't.

Do you need your passport to purchase a ticket? I've had to give them my passport number, but I don't remember giving them my passport, but I usually book on-line.

[coma]

BBC reporting that there was indeed only two individuals traveling on stolen passports, not four as previously reported. The four individual story came about by a misinterpretation at a press conference.

[cmiuc]

Mystery over passenger IDs as search resumes for Malaysia jet

Asked about the stolen passports, he said "we are investigating this at the moment" but declined to give further details.

An Austrian named Christian Kozel had his passport stolen in Thailand in 2012, while Italian Luigi Maraldi lost his to theft last year, also in Thailand, officials and reports.

Despite their names being on the passenger manifest, neither man was on the plane to Beijing, officials said.

In Washington, a US administration official said authorities were aware of the passports issue.

"We have not determined a nexus to terrorism yet, although it's still very early and that's by no means definitive. We're still tracking the situation," the official said.

Earlier, when asked whether terrorism could have been a factor, Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said: "We are looking at all possibilities but it is too soon to speculate."

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2014-03-09

Kind of suspicious both passports were stolen in Thailand... why would someone or group go to extremes to steal them in thailand (2012) and then about 2 years later plan them on this flight? Also read that the pilots were of muslim descent... not sure if that has any meaning...

the Urgurs that lead a revolt of terroism in Shenzhen and in Xianjang in 2010 or so... and then 2 weeks ago in Kunming...(someone of this group just walked into a bus station and stabbed up to 20 people before being caught)... could make a little sense because of the 163 chinese passengers going to Bejing...(maybe someone of importance was on that flight..but you know how chinese are about secrecy)... really hard to imagine not being able to find the plane... (usually the plane is quite bouyant because of all of the ligt materials)... so i suspect its been flown somewhere getting ready to be a hostage negotiating plot...

oh well the guesses remain all out there... hehe be interesting to find out if it is more than just your everyday average plane crash incident that is so frequent these days.

[Garnethoyes]

None of the airlines at airports in this region can check passports on any kind of international database.

[MK1]

There are some wild speculative conspiracy theories getting around discussed at length today on the Professional Pilots network forum to such an extent one forum poster suggested that 'Putin' was potentially responsible to distract the international community with regard to the invasion of the Ukraine.

The best plausible conspiracy mentioned was the possibility of extremists who recently made several attempts to start a series fires in toilets on board 'Etihad- flight EY461 (B777)' Melbourne to Abu Dhabi and as a consequence the flight was diverted to Jakarta.

After the flight was thought to be cleared, they continued on to Abu Dhabi but not without not without further fires, according to one witness, even though the flight staff supposable stood guard over toilet entrances for the remaining part of the journey.

It is believed that toilets on board B777 are situated front, centre and aft. In particular, the centre toilet directly next to the centre fuselage fuel tank perhaps the reasoning and motive behind starting fires in such a toilet. Incidentally, the centre fuel tank is believed to have a holding capacity of more than 70 tons of fuel and an ignition point there could cause a catastrophic event.

It’s plausible when you think about it, since we know terrorists are now calculative with their actions and that flight EY461 series of fires on board, which happen only less than a month ago, was a failed act of terrorism, but perhaps more likely a rehearsal, potentially the same circumstances surrounding what happen on board MH370.

Sources of info:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-20/12-detained-in-abu-dhabi-over-plane-fires/5272548

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/535538-mh370-contact-lost-31.html

[Lupatria]

FBI to probe missing Malaysia plane

......edited as unrelated to my post..........

The stolen passports used by two passengers on the plane are believed to have come from an Italian and a an Austrian.

"Just because they were stolen doesn’t mean the travelers were terrorists," a Department of Homeland Security official said. "They could have been nothing more than thieves. Or they could have simply bought the passports on the black market."

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

Strange to see the way that the passports are being downplayed everywhere....especially by organisations usually not known for jumping to innocent conclusions,.

Exactly. Would the Homeland Security official, or even any small town judge in the US accept the answer: ”I just bought the passport on the black market,- nothing to worry about” from someone caught with it in a road check?

[Familyonthemove]

BBC reporting that there was indeed only two individuals traveling on stolen passports, not four as previously reported. The four individual story came about by a misinterpretation at a press conference.

Reports are a bit confusing - but it seems it was a group of four people all travelling on same booking made with China Eastern and two of the party had stolen passports.

[baneko]

Sad news. Was it not a 777 from Turkish Airlines that crashed on on aproach to Schipol? I also think an AF 777 crashed on the way from an African island on the way to CDG? Another BA 777 crashed at Heathrow?

The reports say its very safe but maybe it has a slightly chequered past. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Very sad.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Tywais]

BBC reporting that there was indeed only two individuals traveling on stolen passports, not four as previously reported. The four individual story came about by a misinterpretation at a press conference.

Reports are a bit confusing - but it seems it was a group of four people all travelling on same booking made with China Eastern and two of the party had stolen passports.

UPDATE [1.20pm]: Department of Civil Aviation clarifies earlier statement by the Defence Minister Hishammuddin Hussein, saying only two – not four – passengers had boarded the flight using stolen passports.

CCTV footage shows the two individuals from the check-in point to departure. Footage will be used for investigations.

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