Thai Democrats likely to take part in next election: source

[webfact]

POLITICS
Democrats likely to take part in next election : source
The nation

BANGKOK: -- The Democrats will run in the upcoming election, a high-ranking source said yesterday.

The source said many Democrats would ask for a secret ballot to vote on whether the party should join the election and most would vote to join.

The source said it the secret ballot would be proposed for today instead of tomorrow as originally set so it could be staged before the anti-government People's Democratic Reform Committee's scheduled mass rally tomorrow.

That way PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban cannot use the rally to try to sway the Democrats' decision, the source said.

The Democrat Party's general assembly is scheduled for today and tomorrow.

Suthep has been adamant that elections can only be held after national reforms are put in place.

The Students and People's Network for Thailand's Reform (STR) yesterday led large crowds to rally at the Election Commission (EC), calling on the agency to cancel the Senate election scheduled for Sunday.

The group asked the EC to implement reforms to ensure free and fair elections before the poll is held.

The STR, led by Nitithorn Lamlua and Uthai Yodmanee, submitted a letter to EC secretary-general Puchong Nutrawong, saying that politicians and capitalists - rather than the public - are the groups that have benefited the most from previous elections.

The EC should first reform the electoral and political systems before holding a new election, otherwise the country will not be able to move on, the group said.

The group said the EC members should consider resigning if they cannot hold a free and fair election.

Puchong said he would submit the group's proposal to the EC meeting yesterday.

However, he said the EC would continue to carry out its duty as long as the Constitution is in effect.


-- The Nation 2014-03-28

[Siripon]

The Democrats will propose reforms in 7 areas.They know some of these will take years so I wouldn't be surprised if they propose something like a social contract whereby whoever wins the election agrees to implement key reforms within one years and then hold another election.

Suthep may protest but the Democrats know they can't refuse to run again without incurring public wrath and Suthep can be satisfied that he's forced reform to be number one on the agenda and hastened the demise of this government.

[Dr Bruce]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

[Chang_paarp]

As Dr Bruce points out, if the Democrats fail to participate in a second successive election the electoral commission will have to de-register them as a political party.

Their only "out" would be to argue that the February election was voided and does not count, but that would be skating on very thin ice. They would need help from friends in the judiciary to make that one stick.

[smutcakes]

As Dr Bruce points out, if the Democrats fail to participate in a second successive election the electoral commission will have to de-register them as a political party.

Their only "out" would be to argue that the February election was voided and does not count, but that would be skating on very thin ice. They would need help from friends in the judiciary to make that one stick.

Hell would freeze over before the Democrats were de-registered, banned or the alike.

[Tatsujin]

You can see the Dems slowly distancing themselves from Suthep and at least contemplating working with PT/EC to agree to a commitment to stated/agreed reforms prior to elections again. If they can get their heads in order and come up with some sensible, actionable reforms to be implemented, then I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them easily win a majority in the next elections.

At the end of the day, all parties need to make some firm commitments to reforms and hold themselves personally accountable and liable to them, and then we can get the ball rolling again with new elections. Claiming an electoral majority however to justify certain actions is simply not acceptable to a large proportion of the public anymore and they all better learn to be a little bit more open, accountable and transparent from now on or this whole stupid mess is going to go around and around in circles for decades to come.

[Eric Loh]

Wanna bet. Dem will not take part in election and no way they be dissolved by court. Too much at stake to antagonise Suterp and too much to lose from the same pool of supporters. Court is buddy buddy with Dem and ensure their survival. All too obvious.

[gabruce]

Could someone help me please? What are the specific issues with the electoral system that need to be reformed or that people want reformed?

Do the protestors have any specific proposals or have they identified any specific issues? I do remember the "vote-buying" issue.

I wonder if ballots here are secret or are they monitored?

Could any of these electoral reforms be handled directly by the EC implementing procedural policies?

I honestly cannot remember.

[Fryslan boppe]

"The EC should first reform the electoral and political systems before holding a new election, otherwise the country will not be able to move on, the group said"

Let me correct the suggested outcome: "........otherwise the PAD-dem's cannot win an election"

Their objective......Diddle the system to improve their electability, but don't ask them to change and become electable......After all, they are divinely designed to govern, even if those idiotic voters don't appreciate their political wisdom....So why would they change?...Right?

[Mango Bob]

you want reforms? Reform the police, reform the courts, reform the education system. My points is it not going to happen in years and years. Not sometime that going to happen in one year or two years. You need an election and a government to work for these reforms. You think the people want to wait years and years to elect a government. Not going to happen. Wake up people, no not wake up grow up.

[djjamie]

Suthep has been adamant that elections can only be held after national reforms are put in place.

​Too right…Otherwise it would be an electoral coup where an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable would control Thailand again and when an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable runs a country the people he controls inevitable end up on the wrong side of the law, in court and found guilty of a crime or an abuse of power. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Wise words Suthep. Wise words. Criminals hate them, but over 50% of the population agree with you.

Edited March 28, 2014 by djjamie

[ManopY]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

If they "don't run", they will NOT be dissolved! Because the last election where voided!!!

[fab4]

Could someone help me please? What are the specific issues with the electoral system that need to be reformed or that people want reformed?

Do the protestors have any specific proposals or have they identified any specific issues? I do remember the "vote-buying" issue.

I wonder if ballots here are secret or are they monitored?

Could any of these electoral reforms be handled directly by the EC implementing procedural policies?

I honestly cannot remember.

There is little wrong with the election process other than the dems cannot manage to get the necessary number of votes to be able to form a government.

Vote Buying?

“In a study of a village in northern Thailand, Walker (2008) found that vote buying had very limited influence on election results". (Walker, Andrew, 2008: “The Rural Constitution and the Everyday Politics of Elections in Northern Thailand”. Journal of Contemporary Asia 38 (1): 84 -105.)

Katherine A Bowie:

The Journal of Asian Studies Vol. 67, No. 2 (May) 2008: 469–511.

© 2008 Association of Asian Studies Inc. doi: 10.1017/S0021911808000673

Vote Buying and Village Outrage in an Election in Northern Thailand: Recent Legal Reforms in Historical Context

Vote buying has long been considered a major obstacle to democracy in Thailand. As reiterated in explanations of Thailand’s 2006 military coup, vote buying in Thai electoral politics has often been attributed to traditional village culture and rural ignorance. Placing a 1995 northern Thai election for kamnan (subdistrict head) in

historical context, this essay suggests that vote buying did not typify village electoral politics but was an aberration that reached its zenith during the mid-1990s.

Legal ambiguities, not rural apathy or ignorance, impeded villagers’ ability to protest corrupt practices and safeguard their internal democracy. These ambiguities emerged as new democratic laws implemented in 1992 and 1995 to decentralize power conflicted with older laws dating from the days of absolute monarchy. Subsequent legal reforms appear to have mitigated the importance of vote buying in village electoral politics. How these reforms will affect national electoral politics remains to be seen.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/bowie-2008b.pdf

ANFREL had this to say

An Asian election monitoring group has hailed Thailand's nationwide election as final results were tallied for being generally peaceful, orderly and allowing the public to express their voice. But, the Asian Network for Free Elections also cited some flaws in the polls and warned the Thai military not to intervene in politics. ANFREL issued a statement Tuesday noting there were some flaws in the election, including cases of violence, intimidation and vote-buying that it urged authorities to handle appropriately. But it said there were no major incidents that would call into question the results.The monitoring group says the most substantial problem was the election commission failing to sufficiently inform some voters of the need to re-register for the election. According to ANFREL, that prevented up to one million Thais, about three percent of voters, from participating. ANFREL chairman Damaso Magbual told journalists Tuesday that given the tense situation in the country, Thailand’s Election Commission in general, managed the process well and the result was a vote that reflects the will of the people. http://www.voanews.com/content/asian-observer-group-commends-thai-election-cites-minor-flaws--125003034/141777.html

As William A Callahan put it, in his; The Discourse of Vote Buying and Political Reform in Thailand,

"Simply put, what is the bigger problem: vote buying or the political reformers obsession with it?"

[fab4]

Suthep has been adamant that elections can only be held after national reforms are put in place.

​Too right…Otherwise it would be an electoral coup where an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable would control Thailand again and when an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable runs a country the people he controls inevitable end up on the wrong side of the law, in court and found guilty of a crime or an abuse of power. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Wise words Suthep. Wise words. Criminals hate them, but over 50% of the population agree with you.

Well there's a new one, "Electoral Coup": you just keep on giving, djjamie.

How dare people use a national vote to decide which party gets to form a government when we have the far more democratic option of having one appointed on their behalf, without their input.

And after your dubious assumption that over 50% of the population agree with suthep, you condemn the remaining percentage as criminals. The caring anti government supporter.

[diehard60]

Yea know it would be good if these CRT protesters would spend more of their time trying to educate the people they are supposed to be educating insted of giving a grade for protesting. Some students get A because their instructor told them you will fail if you do not protest.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

[diehard60]

Suthep has been adamant that elections can only be held after national reforms are put in place.

​Too right…Otherwise it would be an electoral coup where an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable would control Thailand again and when an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist, convicted criminal fugitive unelectable runs a country the people he controls inevitable end up on the wrong side of the law, in court and found guilty of a crime or an abuse of power. Then the cycle starts all over again.

Wise words Suthep. Wise words. Criminals hate them, but over 50% of the population agree with you.

Oh you must be talking about suthep. Right? He is accused of murder and more and ha never gone to court to face the charges.

[fab4]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

How about being dissolved under the "not running in 2 elections in 8 years" rule. If there isn't a rule, there should be. Why be a political party if you won't take part in an election because you're afraid of losing?

"You've got to be in it, to win it"

[ginjag]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

How about being dissolved under the "not running in 2 elections in 8 years" rule. If there isn't a rule, there should be. Why be a political party if you won't take part in an election because you're afraid of losing?

"You've got to be in it, to win it"

Does that apply to your PM and the PTP. ??? if they are barred by the court how can they win it ???

[Bluespunk]

"The Democrats will run in the upcoming election, a high-ranking source said yesterday.

The source said many Democrats would ask for a secret ballot to vote on whether the party should join the election and most would vote to join."

Good, the country needs a government and an opposition.

Let's hope that after this election, whoever wins will govern in a better manner than the last PT one and consider all the electorate, not just their support base [yes this applies to the dems in the unlikely event they win this time round].

[Bluespunk]

As Dr Bruce points out, if the Democrats fail to participate in a second successive election the electoral commission will have to de-register them as a political party.

Their only "out" would be to argue that the February election was voided and does not count, but that would be skating on very thin ice. They would need help from friends in the judiciary to make that one stick.

Why would the ice be thin? If the election was voided then it never happened.

[diehard60]

Could someone help me please? What are the specific issues with the electoral system that need to be reformed or that people want reformed?

Do the protestors have any specific proposals or have they identified any specific issues? I do remember the "vote-buying" issue.

I wonder if ballots here are secret or are they monitored?

Could any of these electoral reforms be handled directly by the EC implementing procedural policies?

I honestly cannot remember.

The only reforms suthep and his thugs want is the Chins out of polictics so that the dems can finally win an election.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

How about being dissolved under the "not running in 2 elections in 8 years" rule. If there isn't a rule, there should be. Why be a political party if you won't take part in an election because you're afraid of losing?

"You've got to be in it, to win it"

They only want to be in free and fair elections.

Would you want to lose your money on a casino roulette wheel you know to be rigged? I doubt it, so you would simply choose not to play!!!

[Fryslan boppe]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

How about being dissolved under the "not running in 2 elections in 8 years" rule. If there isn't a rule, there should be. Why be a political party if you won't take part in an election because you're afraid of losing?

"You've got to be in it, to win it"

They only want to be in free and fair elections.

Would you want to lose your money on a casino roulette wheel you know to be rigged? I doubt it, so you would simply choose not to play!!!

The PAD-Dem's just cannot get it into their arrogant heads, that their electoral futility is of their own making.....In their fevered notions of entitlement, it cannot be them!

Their persistence in this blindness will continue to relegate them to the Political sidelines.

They obviously need assistance to get out of this rut........Hire a damn outside political consultant to show them how to become electorally competitive for heavens sake. Get off these kneejerk reactions of pointing everywhere but themselves. Especially blaming Thaksin, Ms. Y and the electoral majority for their own shortcomings.

Not complicated.

[Publicus]

The (un) Democrat are still in a no-win situation. If they run then it gives the PTP more merit when they win. If they don't run then they will be disolved by any unbiased Court.

They cannot be dissolved under the 'not running in 2 elections or 8 years rule' as the Feb 2nd elections were voided and don't count.

Correct, Plan B.

[webfact]

Democrat to reconsider running for next election

BANGKOK, 28 March 2014 (NNT) - The Democrat Party is expected to finalize its decision on whether to contest the new election, at its annual general assembly tomorrow.

According to Former Democrat MP Atthawit Suwanpakdi, the party will be at risk of being dissolved if it decides to boycott another general election. He noted that the party is carefully taking its time to consider the impact of their decision as the Election Commission is set to announce the date of the new election soon.

Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, who earlier broke his collarbone, is also expected to attend the assembly.

Critics have said that it is likely the party will decide to steer clear of the election again, given that it could lose support from voters backing the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC).

Atthawit expressed his belief that the current Yingluck Shinawatra administration will not likely survive the impeachment process launched by the National Anti-Corruption Commission during the next 3 months. He expects that national reforms will be kick-started prior to another election.


-- NNT 2014-03-28

[Fryslan boppe]

The following exerpt from elsewhere in today's news about upcoming Ukrainian elections, is applicable to the DP with this intention to run in an election they avoided last time.

I will let you make the connection:

The party of Viktor Yanukovych, the country’s ousted president, is also in the process of choosing a candidate and will formally expel him from its ranks as part of a rebranding effort.

I think there is a definite clue for them here....It is to everyone's benefit to have competitive elections and a balance of power in parliament. I would like to see the DP make the changes they need to do, in order to achieve that.

[Bluespunk]

The following exerpt from elsewhere in today's news about upcoming Ukrainian elections, is applicable to the DP with this intention to run in an election they avoided last time.

I will let you make the connection:

The party of Viktor Yanukovych, the country’s ousted president, is also in the process of choosing a candidate and will formally expel him from its ranks as part of a rebranding effort.

I think there is a definite clue for them here....It is to everyone's benefit to have competitive elections and a balance of power in parliament. I would like to see the DP make the changes they need to do, in order to achieve that.

I have no idea what you are on about.

[Bluespunk]

"The EC should first reform the electoral and political systems before holding a new election, otherwise the country will not be able to move on, the group said"

Let me correct the suggested outcome: "........otherwise the PAD-dem's cannot win an election"

Their objective......Diddle the system to improve their electability, but don't ask them to change and become electable......After all, they are divinely designed to govern, even if those idiotic voters don't appreciate their political wisdom....So why would they change?...Right?

Who on earth are these PAD-dems you keep going on about?

[londonthai]

The following exerpt from elsewhere in today's news about upcoming Ukrainian elections, is applicable to the DP with this intention to run in an election they avoided last time.

I will let you make the connection:

The party of Viktor Yanukovych, the country’s ousted president, is also in the process of choosing a candidate and will formally expel him from its ranks as part of a rebranding effort.

I think there is a definite clue for them here....It is to everyone's benefit to have competitive elections and a balance of power in parliament. I would like to see the DP make the changes they need to do, in order to achieve that.

I have no idea what you are on about.

in order to be electable, the dems need to change the leader/leadership