Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[Tomtomtom69]

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

In all honesty, doing this is a very bad idea and may actually create issues for you, letters of guarantee are used for people coming into a country to join a vessel/ business meetings etc. and immigration may get it in their head your coming to Thailand to "work" which will compound your problems, further the only real letter of guarantee worth anything in terms of Thai immigration, is one from a Thai based company (written in Thai) which states they will take responsibly for the person while in country while joining a vessel or attending a business meeting and if coming in on a visa wavier, they would be in their rights to say b*gger off and go and get a Non-imm B.

From one offshore guy to another, I would say to you don't even try this one on.

I agree. However, I find that it helps if you speak Thai (fluently or almost fluently) in which case you could explain yourself better, but of course not many would be in such a situation (however, it has always worked for me, but I've never had to explain myself and certainly never had a letter or anything with me). The reception I get (being able to speak Thai) compared to others who only speak English is quite different from my own observations. It's partly a language issue too...having a letter of guarantee from a non-Thai company printed in English would probably only confuse immigration officials and cause them to become suspicious as to your intentions.

[Cnxforever]

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

In all honesty, doing this is a very bad idea and may actually create issues for you, letters of guarantee are used for people coming into a country to join a vessel/ business meetings etc. and immigration may get it in their head your coming to Thailand to "work" which will compound your problems, further the only real letter of guarantee worth anything in terms of Thai immigration, is one from a Thai based company (written in Thai) which states they will take responsibly for the person while in country while joining a vessel or attending a business meeting and if coming in on a visa wavier, they would be in their rights to say b*gger off and go and get a Non-imm B.

From one offshore guy to another, I would say to you don't even try this one on.

Not exactly my letter states that I am currently on company approved vacation and that my company will shoulder all expenses for my repatriation to the next vessel assigned at the end of my vacation.

[Cnxforever]

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

In all honesty, doing this is a very bad idea and may actually create issues for you, letters of guarantee are used for people coming into a country to join a vessel/ business meetings etc. and immigration may get it in their head your coming to Thailand to "work" which will compound your problems, further the only real letter of guarantee worth anything in terms of Thai immigration, is one from a Thai based company (written in Thai) which states they will take responsibly for the person while in country while joining a vessel or attending a business meeting and if coming in on a visa wavier, they would be in their rights to say b*gger off and go and get a Non-imm B.

From one offshore guy to another, I would say to you don't even try this one on.

I agree. However, I find that it helps if you speak Thai (fluently or almost fluently) in which case you could explain yourself better, but of course not many would be in such a situation (however, it has always worked for me, but I've never had to explain myself and certainly never had a letter or anything with me). The reception I get (being able to speak Thai) compared to others who only speak English is quite different from my own observations. It's partly a language issue too...having a letter of guarantee from a non-Thai company printed in English would probably only confuse immigration officials and cause them to become suspicious as to your intentions.

FYI I speak fluent Thai.

And it does not make any difference at all - some immigration officers are very accommodating and friendly some are miserable and unfriendly - not much to do with language really - I am always up for a friendly chat - some respond - some just pull a grumpy face and go on with their business.

I even understand that very well too - it must be boring to carry out the same task of putting a stamp into a passport, registering passport details into a database day in day out!

[mikebike]

As is so with ANY country, a visa is NOT a guarantee of entry. It is merely a document that will allow you to move freely if granted entry.

Pompous BS. It's a document that unless forged or illegally issued or any other very good reason. WILL guarantee entry.

The "move freely" part comes from your wild imagination.

No it most definitely will not guarantee entry. From the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website:

Thailand's Visa Information : General information

10. Royal Thai Embassies and Royal Thai Consulates-General have the authority to issue visas to foreigners for travel to Thailand. The authority to permit entry and stay in Thailand, however, is with the immigration officers. In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).

[natway09]

And so you should pay tax if working here, just like where you come from.

If you want charity, go home, The average Thai can't afford being bummed off.

As to fingerprinting,at immigration if it works great, seems to work in KL

[riclag]

Bye Bye tourist Hub of the world

Hardly. How many real tourists come here for more than 30 days?

David

Me, I come on a 3 entry TV from the states. I live with the GF and travel around Thailand for 5 weeks during the cold months, Dec-middle Feb..When the TV is up back to the states for 3 months .and do it all over again.

[JSixpack]

1.

Marriage: no way

ED: how if i am tourist for vacation and not stay all the time in thailand to be at classroom

bussines: i already have a job (offshore)

tourist visa: you say Im not a tourist

Marriage: easy

ED: check whether you can work out arrangement to take classes when in LOS

business: can have 2nd job in Thailand, manage company remotely and maybe mostly passively

investment: be a passive investor

tourist: as I told you already, Immigration decides whether you are a tourist. Better repeat that to yourself 10 times. Understood? Then the tourist visa confirms you are a tourist whether you "feel" like one or not

2.

Because I renting: who say that, where`s this written? the last 50 trips to thailand i always say (if asked) "I rent a house" fill out the arrival form at the backside with full adress and purpouse of trip

That was then; this is now--a point you have difficulty understanding. You can put any address you like on the arrival form. You can even have a real hotel reservation.

3.

Its not a resident certificate: sorry i mean residance certificate as tittled on the official document from the Immigration Office

And so doesn't mean shit, really. I get address verification docs just using my Thai DL.

4.

Tourist defination: is it your defination? do you have a source?

Merely common sense, and Thai Immigration statements in the OP and in other recent threads on the topic. My "That kind of thing" included the proper tourist visa.

In your case, your definition is merely "I feel like a tourist, therefore I am." Why not just feel like you're a Thai citizen: then you'd need no visa at all, right? Immigration says now that you can feel like a tourist (after your first in/out quickie) when you get a proper tourist visa--at the very least. Until then, better start feeling like "Wish I could travel to Thailand."

Hope that helps clarify things for you.

[Soutpeel]

You will very likely also carry a guaranty letter from your company - for the purpose of proving to immigration that you are a crew member - which is almost worthless because I found most of them can't read English and just hand it back to you.

In all honesty, doing this is a very bad idea and may actually create issues for you, letters of guarantee are used for people coming into a country to join a vessel/ business meetings etc. and immigration may get it in their head your coming to Thailand to "work" which will compound your problems, further the only real letter of guarantee worth anything in terms of Thai immigration, is one from a Thai based company (written in Thai) which states they will take responsibly for the person while in country while joining a vessel or attending a business meeting and if coming in on a visa wavier, they would be in their rights to say b*gger off and go and get a Non-imm B.

From one offshore guy to another, I would say to you don't even try this one on.

Not exactly my letter states that I am currently on company approved vacation and that my company will shoulder all expenses for my repatriation to the next vessel assigned at the end of my vacation.

Non the less, personally I still wouldn't be going there with immigration on this one.

but hey up to you, if its not a Thai company letter immigration couldn't care less one suspects...I could have a letter from HM QE II or the pope and it wouldn't have any bearing on a visa waiver their eyes....

[mikebike]

That pretty much spells it out -- good for them to take a stand. There is always some slippage here between the law and it's implementation, but it seems that the boss is going to be watching for a while

You must be naive fool. What makes you think the next "crackdown" will not affect you?

1. Raising the retirement visa to 60 years and/or raising the monthly income/savings limits, for example.

2. Or they start examining are you "really" married to that Thai girl! One wrong answer while immigration officer having a bad day and it is bye bye time for you!

3. Or you having a successful business and a competitor complains about you. Then they bribe an official and "found" something in your business offices and then you will be deported.

These kinds of absolute powers for blacklisting to be given to border officials are NEVER good! Especially if there are no ways to file an appeal. It is basically inviting all kinds of abusive behaviour.

1. Then a person would have to start to look for alternatives... There are never any guarantees that laws and rules won't change over time...

2. An immigration officer having had a bad day can cause immeasurable grief anywhere in the world.

3. I'd be more worried that my competitor would pay for a 5000 baht motorcycle 'drive-by'...

[mikebike]

I'm not privy to the workings behind the scenes, neither are you. If you can't see the funny side of asking who the head of Thai immigration thinks he is, deciding how long tourists can spend in Thailand, then I can't help you.

Let me help you understand then, he is an non-elected cop with (relatively) limited power, exploiting a power gap to introduce regulations not officially published in any body of law, at the time someone above him will think different he will be quietly back at his desk polishing his medals and working the best posts bids paid by his subordinates.

Political Science 101

Ideally, in any country, politicians define policy/laws AFTER consolation with experts (academic, bureaucratic) and bureaucrats then enact policy/laws. Interpretation of policy/laws are at the discretion of the bureaucrats, not the politicians. If politicians feel that they laws they have enacted are not being enforced in a they way that they intended they can change the laws but they have little influence in the day-to-day enforcement of their policy.

[mikebike]

A better question is where is the world is there not a visa class for rich people to come there and spend money indefinitely ??

Show you have assets and everywhere is open.. But not here for under 50s.

Investment visa and extension

If you invest 10 million baht in the Kingdom you may be eligible for a one year investment visa.

You can be eligible for a one year extension of stay based on investment if you make an investment of 10 million baht or more in the Kingdom.

[mikebike]

But you cannot have vague discretionary rules.. Not when air travel is concerned.

The system cannot operate on the whims of the guy on the desk, there has to be a system of precise rules.

And yet every immigration officer in the world has 'discretionary powers' built into his or her job description...

[Soutpeel]

A better question is where is the world is there not a visa class for rich people to come there and spend money indefinitely ??

Show you have assets and everywhere is open.. But not here for under 50s.

Investment visa and extension

If you invest 10 million baht in the Kingdom you may be eligible for a one year investment visa.

You can be eligible for a one year extension of stay based on investment if you make an investment of 10 million baht or more in the Kingdom.

I suppose it boils down to someone's definition of rich, someone who believes they are rich maybe looked down on as being a pauper in someone else's eyes.

and of course its an investment visa, so you also get your money back in the end with interest/profit one suspects....so in fact this is a very viable option for the rich people from a business perspective, people lose more than this in Thailand building houses and buying cars/business' and losing them to their "teeraks"

[mikebike]

I've news for this guy - he can't throw me out the country unless I commit a criminal act.

You are absolutely correct he cannot throw you out.

But he most definitely can refuse you entry.

[balo]

What if you own a condo in your name, will you still be blacklisted if you arrive on a tourist visa ?

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mikebike]

Ohh but they are vague..

This at the officers discretion.. If he feels they are a tourist.. If he is happy they are not resident.. maybe he might..

That cant operate.. Not when people have planes to catch, transfers to make, and timing to stick to.

Either the rule is one and done.. Or its not.. But 'based on the mood of the guard on the day' is not a system that can be applied successfully.

Sure the only people who are going to miss planes and have huge financial costs to this are non Thai, so they can do it.. But it will be a disaster.

I have traveled to the US many times over 35-odd years... Two times I have been refused entry, the other 100 or so, no problems... Bleedin' well screwed up my travel plans... Why is it so hard to understand that immigration officials have discretionary powers and they sometimes USE them. And sometimes in an inappropriate way... I just never ASSUME things are going to go well and am prepared to deal with the consequences... here or anywhere else.

[raybal5]

That is hard core.

Not really. If you want to see hard core - check out Australia's position on foreign entry.

[Neeranam]

I've news for this guy - he can't throw me out the country unless I commit a criminal act.

You are absolutely correct he cannot throw you out.

But he most definitely can refuse you entry.

Actually, the wording in the Constitution is "cannot refuse entry".

[T_Dog]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

[White Tiger]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

And, if not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" but without enough property or investment to satisfy those rules, what kind of visa is that exactly?

That scenario sounds to me like staying in the country illegally. Thai immigration rules do not provide a long stay visa for these people. It's about time Thailand got tough on illegal immigrants - most of the western countries are tough on it already.

[samran]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Thailand don't want the tourists like you. We need quality tourists.

Like "you", who? Are you Thai ?

Oh, and what if he is? Is it such a crime? Or are you the only person allowed to look down upon others?

[mikebike]

I've news for this guy - he can't throw me out the country unless I commit a criminal act.

You are absolutely correct he cannot throw you out.

But he most definitely can refuse you entry.

Actually, the wording in the Constitution is "cannot refuse entry".

From The Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kingdom of Thailand:

10. Royal Thai Embassies and Royal Thai Consulates-General have the authority to issue visas to foreigners for travel to Thailand. The authority to permit entry and stay in Thailand, however, is with the immigration officers. In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979).

Please link to 'cannot refuse entry' in the Thai Constitution - I am very curious...

[NanLaew]

I've news for this guy - he can't throw me out the country unless I commit a criminal act.

You are absolutely correct he cannot throw you out.

But he most definitely can refuse you entry.

Actually, the wording in the Constitution is "cannot refuse entry".

The Thai Constitution is promulgated for Thai citizens. It has bugger all to do with any foreigners.

[NanLaew]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

Those on 28/28 work/rest rotations in the oil and gas or mining industries are another minority that don't really deserve any breaks. However, if they have already committed to living in Thailand while working FIFO and have bought property here or have relationships and children, then they may need to review THEIR commitments in Thailand rather than whine about getting shafted by any new immigration enforcement.

[Mario2008]

1 flame removed.

Keep your replies civil.

[KonaRain]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I thought he said..if it takes more than 30 days with no visa, prove it..if they check and bad report..forever banned.

[ubonjoe]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

If you mean people that are on a rotation and stay here on their time off it will not change anything for them. They will not be doing an Out-in entry.

The only ones it might effect are the ones that need more than 30 days and have been making border runs for the extra days but I suspect that will not have a problem because of the time they spent out of the country.

[NanLaew]

What if you own a condo in your name, will you still be blacklisted if you arrive on a tourist visa ?

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This from the oft-quoted article in the Phuket rag, "The clampdown does not affect holders of non-immigrant visas or holders of tourist visas who still have remaining entries permitted on their legal visas. It will be enforced at land borders and airports."

[ubonjoe]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I thought he said..if it takes more than 30 days with no visa, prove it..if they check and bad report..forever banned.

It does not apply to people that have visas of any type that allows for more than one entry.

It only applies to visa exempt entries.

[ATF]

I agree. However, I find that it helps if you speak Thai (fluently or almost fluently) in which case you could explain yourself better, but of course not many would be in such a situation (however, it has always worked for me, but I've never had to explain myself and certainly never had a letter or anything with me). The reception I get (being able to speak Thai) compared to others who only speak English is quite different from my own observations. It's partly a language issue too...having a letter of guarantee from a non-Thai company printed in English would probably only confuse immigration officials and cause them to become suspicious as to your intentions.

FYI I speak fluent Thai.

And it does not make any difference at all - some immigration officers are very accommodating and friendly some are miserable and unfriendly - not much to do with language really - I am always up for a friendly chat - some respond - some just pull a grumpy face and go on with their business.

I even understand that very well too - it must be boring to carry out the same task of putting a stamp into a passport, registering passport details into a database day in day out!

Try speaking Bangkok Thai whilst sporting a gold Rolex and flying business or first class. They will hang onto your every word.