Small-Displacement BMW Motorcycles Debuting in 2015

[mania]

Small-Displacement BMW Motorcycles Debuting in 2015

Indian Built 250cc

Interesting to me from the article is this line...

"Increasingly the future of the motorcycle industry is happening in India and Southeast Asia,

and it seems like just about every manufacturer has some sort of strategy in place for that reality"

[ll2]

Pity BMW does not build them in Thailand.

Thailand is losing ground to India in terms of motorcycle production and investment as they have a huge market there with the ever expanding middle class of 300 million people of course!

And it is a joint venture with TVS, one of the biggest motorcycle maker in India. I rode their Apache model in India before, a sufficient bike it was.

Both makers will do their own models.

This move was expected of course after KTM goes with Bajaj and Erik Buell with Hero.

[dave_boo]

II2 covered a lot of what I was going to post other than it seems that Hero is best off in their relationship; after all Erik Buell is a design god..and American . They have the volume of sales to apply quality work at slightly lower prices (make up for it in volume), plus they have a long history of working with a foreign company (Honda) and so hopefully keep the quality up. Most of the people who have seen the (Bajaj) KTM 250 have commented that it is a far cry from the Austrian made KTMs in terms of fit, finish, and general quality feeling. Hope that doesn't permeate through the rest of the manufacturers. Granted, Thai built bikes are not quite up to snuff with the Japanese counterparts; but generally seem to be in the same league if not quite a tie with the motherland built machines.

That is a hell of a lot of power from the a single cylinder 250. Kawasaki used to claim 33 bhp for their 250 twin and had 25'ish RWHP. Even the proper dirt bikes (CRF250X, WR250X, KX250F, etc.) are flirting with only 30 RWHP and require a lot of maintenance in time spans measured in hours. I'd assume that once the TVS concept gets finalised for sale in countries with proper emissions testing it will probably make mid 25 RWHP tested on an independent dyno....but would love to be proved wrong. If I am wrong, it surely will be a high strung beast that will want to have the revs wound out and will most likely be a hoot to ride due to the sound alone if you're into that type of thing.

[mania]

II2 covered a lot of what I was going to post other than it seems that Hero is best off in their relationship; after all Erik Buell is a design god..and American . They have the volume of sales to apply quality work at slightly lower prices (make up for it in volume), plus they have a long history of working with a foreign company (Honda) and so hopefully keep the quality up. Most of the people who have seen the (Bajaj) KTM 250 have commented that it is a far cry from the Austrian made KTMs in terms of fit, finish, and general quality feeling. Hope that doesn't permeate through the rest of the manufacturers. Granted, Thai built bikes are not quite up to snuff with the Japanese counterparts; but generally seem to be in the same league if not quite a tie with the motherland built machines.

That is a hell of a lot of power from the a single cylinder 250. Kawasaki used to claim 33 bhp for their 250 twin and had 25'ish RWHP. Even the proper dirt bikes (CRF250X, WR250X, KX250F, etc.) are flirting with only 30 RWHP and require a lot of maintenance in time spans measured in hours. I'd assume that once the TVS concept gets finalised for sale in countries with proper emissions testing it will probably make mid 25 RWHP tested on an independent dyno....but would love to be proved wrong. If I am wrong, it surely will be a high strung beast that will want to have the revs wound out and will most likely be a hoot to ride due to the sound alone if you're into that type of thing.

Yeah I was wondering the same about the HP quotes.

Seems quite high

Although I see the new Kawasaki Ninja 250SL single claiming 27.6ps so about 27.2 bhp I think?

But I also know the 390 KTM claims 44hp & they know how to build a single cylinder but again that is a 390cc

You know Japan is making the same mistake USA made I think by giving up manufacturing to cheaper labor countries

It is all fine & well for the few that profit but in the end the countries that let go of producing something

end up poorer employment wise etc.

[dave_boo]

Yeah I was wondering the same about the HP quotes.

Seems quite high

Although I see the new Kawasaki Ninja 250SL single claiming 27.6ps so about 27.2 bhp I think?

But I also know the 390 KTM claims 44hp & they know how to build a single cylinder but again that is a 390cc

You know Japan is making the same mistake USA made I think by giving up manufacturing to cheaper labor countries

It is all fine & well for the few that profit but in the end the countries that let go of producing something

end up poorer employment wise etc.

If the 27.6 ps is true, than it will likely be 24-25 RWHP. 152kg (assumed dry weight because that is what manufacturers like to list) for the ABS model plus 17 litres of fuel and a couple of litres of oil puts it pretty much spot on with the Honda's 166kg kerb weight. Power to weight ratio being essentially the same, it then boils down to price and quality.

I can only find proper images of dynos that have the 390 Duke at ~35 hp. There's a couple of generated screenshots that suggest a similar power output to the CB500...but all the actual images of a dyno printout have it mid 30's. I think it's a situation akin to Kawasaki's marketing of the 250R...if there is that much HP at the crank (pin?), where is all the driveline loss?

Also agree with you about the jobs situation...but until they allow public hanging of corporate <deleted> and stop bailing them out for playing bingo with the countries' economies and ordinary people's lives what will change?

[mania]

It is quite possible to pull high numbers from

a 250 single cylinder as evidenced by Honda & KTM

in the Moto3 class

Their 250 singles are doing 245kph & supposedly putting

out high 40's low 50's HP wise

But those engines have to be torn down measured in hours not miles/km

These days I do not lend much credence to any manufacturers claims of hp

Heck I don't even much trust the aftermarket guys pipes/controllers etc. dyno claims anymore either

If they are selling something it is all dubious

Dynos just seem to have too much play on how the operators use them etc.

Edited May 14, 2014 by mania

[AllanB]

It is shame keep posting nice bikes like this that are not built in Thailand, so you have to be crazy, or very rich to own one.

It is a bit like the old 1970's TV quiz called "Bullseye", at the end of the program, when the contestants had failed to get the required score, the host would say..... "have a look at what you would have won" ....And then the curtains open to reveal a caravan, boat or car.

Still good to dream....

Edited May 15, 2014 by AllanB