Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[harrry]

Why anyone should have to show minimum 20,000 THB in cash during travel?

Umm, 20,000 baht is not really that much money. You can easily withdraw that sum from an ATM, and you wouldn't sweat doing that in the middle of a busy mall. Yet you fear getting robbed at 35,000 feet whilst flying from A to B.

So you are flying from some strange country you withdraw the equivalent of 20000baht say 1435 drongos. You pay transfer fees and insurance. Ylou get here and show the 1435 drongos and they say that is not 20000baht. You go to an exchange office if they let you and they do not like drongos today so give you 14000 baht.

Things are not always as simple as they seem.

[Tomtomtom69]

I get fed up with the mantra 'they make it so hard for us to get work permits here'.

Now I must take issue with you Samran, because here in Phuket it is not always that easy to get a WP. I have worked in Phuket, but my 2 initial applications (many years ago) for a WP were rejected by Phuket Labour Office, without reason, (all company documents, employed Thais etc correct). Then my lawyer made a 'small' change to my application involving xx,000 baht and voila! I get my WP.

Fast-forward to this year and I am applying again for a WP (as manager of my new little resort). All paperwork is correct, but my lawyer has warned me that I will not get that WP unless I pay around 50,000 baht bribe.

(BTW, this is not my lawyer trying to rip me off - I have used 2 different lawyers (1 foreign, 1 Thai) for over a decade in Phuket, with very low fees and good service).

So in my efforts to stay legal, I am forced to break the law by paying bribes.......

I wish it were not so, but obtaining a WP in Phuket is not always straightforward at all.

Simon

My experiences are totally different. Sounds to me like there is something wrong with the information/paperwork.

I've got a lot of time for simon43. He's a doer and Thailand should be more supportive of people like him. I'm not naive to think that bribery doesn't occur here.

At the same time any time a Thai immigrant lawyer talks about bribes being needed it makes me suspicious. I think in many cases they are just lining their own pockets.

Huh. And yet at the One Stop Visa and Work Permit Center at Chamchuri Square in Bangkok they try to present a clean image of not accepting any bribes at all. Rather ironic, don't you think, one WP office/immigration office fishes for bribes in one part of the country, the next thinks it's Singapore or Finland and doesn't.

[Concerned expat]

Why anyone should have to show minimum 20,000 THB in cash during travel?

Umm, 20,000 baht is not really that much money. You can easily withdraw that sum from an ATM, and you wouldn't sweat doing that in the middle of a busy mall. Yet you fear getting robbed at 35,000 feet whilst flying from A to B.

Personally I am not worried about getting robbed on the plane at all, but pick-pocketing is a well developed "industry" in many countries. Would not want to "support" any thief with $600 and many times seen crying females who got their bags snatched. During "visa run" this amount is not really required by anyone. Could not remember any teller machines on Cambodian border crossing and none looked like a busy mall. Thai bank debit VISA got limit of 10,000 THB for a withdrawal via ATM.

[Concerned expat]

Now I must take issue with you Samran, because here in Phuket it is not always that easy to get a WP. I have worked in Phuket, but my 2 initial applications (many years ago) for a WP were rejected by Phuket Labour Office, without reason, (all company documents, employed Thais etc correct). Then my lawyer made a 'small' change to my application involving xx,000 baht and voila! I get my WP.

Fast-forward to this year and I am applying again for a WP (as manager of my new little resort). All paperwork is correct, but my lawyer has warned me that I will not get that WP unless I pay around 50,000 baht bribe.

(BTW, this is not my lawyer trying to rip me off - I have used 2 different lawyers (1 foreign, 1 Thai) for over a decade in Phuket, with very low fees and good service).

So in my efforts to stay legal, I am forced to break the law by paying bribes.......

I wish it were not so, but obtaining a WP in Phuket is not always straightforward at all.

Simon

What specialized skill are you providing, as a 'manager', that a Thai professional could not provide? If you can answer this question to the satisfaction of the Labour Office, then perhaps you will get the WP without the need for a bribe.

How many Thai "Professionals" with fluent foreign languages and capability to perform work honestly (without usual "sabai - sabai" attitude) and efficiently actually could exist?

[ParadiseLost]

The answer to the cash problem is simple - before you leave your home country, buy some Traveler Cheques in your own currency.

No expiry date and useless to anyone else. If they are stolen, replacement is a cinch.

20k Baht? GBP 400, USD 700 or EUR 500 TCs.

Any major bank will exchange them at a rate normally higher than cash.

[LivinLOS]

I think the gripe most under 50s (I'm 48 & 1/4, not like I'm counting) have is that there's no mechanism to obtain the equivalent of the retirement visa even if they have the financial means to have retired, in the case of military personnel etc... May have "Officially" retired in their home country.

Retiring from a job (e.g. the military) is NOT the same as being retired. If you are from the US, full retirement age is not reached until one's 66th birthday (note, it may be 67 today).

That's not to say that you cannot collect retirement benefits from your employer from the day you "retire" from them, but your country may view your status in a different light.

Thailand happens have to have a low age threshold for retirement. Unless you are making a huge sum from your retirement, I would recommend that, if possible, you consider spending another 10-15 years working with a different employer so that you can qualify for even more retirement benefits.

You seem to be confusing retirement with receiving a pension.

[Concerned expat]

I actually bring cash to Thailand when possible - up to 5k sterling as it is the cheapest way avoiding the atm fees - so if I found myself having to do a border run I'd have to bring the cash with me and show it - hardly ideal

I am used to bring cash and change at the best rate at known places also. No fees for greedy banks robbing between 3%-4% through ATM. At least Thai Banks are OK with about 1% difference. How would you feel if a border official would ask to re-count your money "to make sure it is the right amount" and returned less?

I was asked few times to show the declared money. Did not feel very comfortable in China for some reason and held my money showing the counting to officials.

Thailand is a very nice country, but endemic corruption changes perception of what it is. Would love to see more clarity with Thai legal requirements, printed in English.

[neverdie]

What specialized skill are you providing, as a 'manager', that a Thai professional could not provide?

Probably the most relevant would be native English speaker, knowledge of foreign cultures/idiosynchrasies (spelling!), knowledge of French, German, Italian and so on.

To be blunt, unless I were employing a highly qualified and experienced Thai professional with a 5-star hotel background, (and salary demands to boot), no Thai person (and I mean 100%) possesses the skills required to do this job well. It requires a foreigner.

Of course, I can't say that to the Labour Office, but it is a fact That is maybe why most of the other small hotels by the airport (Thai-managed) have a low occupancy rate and my hotels have a yearly average that approaches 100%....

I'd like to challenge your 100% theory Simon. Maybe you'd like to adjust it downwards, just an iota. I know several Thais that are both fluent in languages and possess skill such as indicated by you above.....but none of the ones I know would come and work for peanuts. There's nothing like expecting 50-80k baht per month of skill and experience to roll up and work for 15k baht per month.

[harrry]

The answer to the cash problem is simple - before you leave your home country, buy some Traveler Cheques in your own currency.

No expiry date and useless to anyone else. If they are stolen, replacement is a cinch.

20k Baht? GBP 400, USD 700 or EUR 500 TCs.

Any major bank will exchange them at a rate normally higher than cash.

But with a really high commission on each cheque.

[jauntyjohn]

Excuse my ignorance but does anyone have any recent experience/problems at a checkpoint to having 2 back to back multiple entry non immigrant O visas in their passport (based on marriage to a thai)?

[oldthaihand99]

The answer to the cash problem is simple - before you leave your home country, buy some Traveler Cheques in your own currency.

No expiry date and useless to anyone else. If they are stolen, replacement is a cinch.

20k Baht? GBP 400, USD 700 or EUR 500 TCs.

Any major bank will exchange them at a rate normally higher than cash.

If you are already in Asia w/o them, where are they sold? Any banks in Bangkok, Singapore or Hong Kong?

[oldthaihand99]

Well you can dig all you like.. Thai would say your allowed 180 days in any one tax year.. Yet the boss of immigration has clearly stated, even someone doing their first visa run, if they are suspected of not being a tourist they will be denied entry.

First visa run does not equal 180 days does it ?? So kind of makes that theory look a little weak.

I'd suggest the "suspecting" rule has been in place since forever. Though now it may come down extra hard on Russians, S Koreans & Vietnamese.

I've been coming to LOS for years & staying about 5.5 months annually. Never been "suspected" yet. Not even any interogation to speak of. That usually occured after landing in my birth/home nation.

Had multiple tourist visas - single, doubles, triples - issued from home - about 15 entries in all, in successive years, in my old passport. Also a number of 30 day entry stamps.

The new passport has 3 of such visas, one from the home country, with a total of 4 entries, one yet to be used, which i plan to do in September. Don't expect any problems, but will have plenty of documentation "proving" i'm financially sufficient for a retired non working person.

[tonsk]

I recently arrived through Don Mueang and noticed much stricter behavior at the border. First, the officer looked for a long time at my three year old single-entry tourist visa (my only Thai visa ever). Then she asked how long I will be staying this time, despite that my last trip to Thailand was one year ago, and I usually just come once a year for 2-3 week stay.

[simon43]

I'd like to challenge your 100% theory Simon....but none of the ones I know would come and work for peanuts. There's nothing like expecting 50-80k baht per month of skill and experience to roll up and work for 15k baht per month

So from your comments, you are agreeing with me! I said:

unless I were employing a highly qualified and experienced Thai professional with a 5-star hotel background, (and salary demands to boot), no Thai person (and I mean 100%) possesses the skills required to do this job well. It requires a foreigner.

This is an issue where Thais are going to lose out - big-time. A Thai with good English language skills and some hospitality experience will not 'demean' him/herself to work for perhaps 25k as manager of a small guesthouse. Yet many Filipino/as with fluent English and the same level of hospitality experience will happily work for that salary in Thailand.

You can guess which nationality I will employ....

Simon

[Tomtomtom69]

Why anyone should have to show minimum 20,000 THB in cash during travel?

Umm, 20,000 baht is not really that much money. You can easily withdraw that sum from an ATM, and you wouldn't sweat doing that in the middle of a busy mall. Yet you fear getting robbed at 35,000 feet whilst flying from A to B.

Personally I am not worried about getting robbed on the plane at all, but pick-pocketing is a well developed "industry" in many countries. Would not want to "support" any thief with $600 and many times seen crying females who got their bags snatched. During "visa run" this amount is not really required by anyone. Could not remember any teller machines on Cambodian border crossing and none looked like a busy mall. Thai bank debit VISA got limit of 10,000 THB for a withdrawal via ATM.

There are plenty of ATMs on the Cambodian side of major crossings you just have to look for them. Unless you are a border runner that has never stepped more than 5 meters inside another country you should also realize it's not difficult to find ATMs a bit further inside the nearest town.

For example, there is at least one ANZ ATM in Poipet in the "no man's land" which technically belongs to Cambodia but is in the casino zone before Cambodian immigration. That ATM dispenses only USD as other ATMs in Cambodia. If you wanted Baht to show immigration on the Thai side, you withdraw from that ATM, go to the moneychangers about 100-200m on the left hand side after immigration and change there. Easy.

My Bangkok Bank debit VISA card allows for a 25000 Baht or equivalent withdrawal per transaction, and up to 50000 Baht per day (or equivalent in other countries).

[oldthaihand99]

I recently arrived through Don Mueang and noticed much stricter behavior at the border. First, the officer looked for a long time at my three year old single-entry tourist visa (my only Thai visa ever). Then she asked how long I will be staying this time, despite that my last trip to Thailand was one year ago, and I usually just come once a year for 2-3 week stay.

Sounds like a piece of cake.

Sometimes i stare at the ceiling for "a long time"...when day dreaming or having a power-nap.

Be thankful she didn't ask to see tickets, money, send you to a private room, etc.

BTW did this occur at "the border" or at the "Don Mueang" airport?

Edited June 4, 2014 by oldthaihand99

[noonms]

I recently arrived through Don Mueang and noticed much stricter behavior at the border. First, the officer looked for a long time at my three year old single-entry tourist visa (my only Thai visa ever). Then she asked how long I will be staying this time, despite that my last trip to Thailand was one year ago, and I usually just come once a year for 2-3 week stay.

strange behavior or theater

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Edited June 4, 2014 by ubonjoe
Moved reply from other post

[smedly]

carrying 20kbaht is not going to convince anyone that you are not working illegally - probably quite the opposite

Showing money in a Thai bank account won't cut it either unless you can show the source was from your home country

If they are targeting people working illegally then surely you would have to prove an income or money transfer from outside of Thailand, people working here illegally will most probably have Thai money and Thai bank account the important factor is showing the source of the money - i.e. an international money transfer

[Chanthaburi]

So these new rules take effect August 13th? Both by land or air?

I have 2 tourist visa with 2 entry and both have 2 times 30 day extension but lately I have done just border runs, actually back to back and extend both 60 days based our son. So if these rules take effect 13th of August I can go and get another stamp from border?

Is there any reports after these new rules from Hat lek border in Trat province?

[ubonjoe]

So these new rules take effect August 13th? Both by land or air?

I have 2 tourist visa with 2 entry and both have 2 times 30 day extension but lately I have done just border runs, actually back to back and extend both 60 days based our son. So if these rules take effect 13th of August I can go and get another stamp from border?

Is there any reports after these new rules from Hat lek border in Trat province?

They are limiting the entries to 3 back to back at a border crossing. I am not sure how they would count them with the 60 day extension.

If you are the legal father by way of marriage or legitimization you could get an extension of stay or a multiple entry non-o visa based upon having a Thai child.

If not you you should have your parenthood legitimized. See:.How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

[Chanthaburi]

So these new rules take effect August 13th? Both by land or air?

I have 2 tourist visa with 2 entry and both have 2 times 30 day extension but lately I have done just border runs, actually back to back and extend both 60 days based our son. So if these rules take effect 13th of August I can go and get another stamp from border?

Is there any reports after these new rules from Hat lek border in Trat province?

They are limiting the entries to 3 back to back at a border crossing. I am not sure how they would count them with the 60 day extension.

If you are the legal father by way of marriage or legitimization you could get an extension of stay or a multiple entry non-o visa based upon having a Thai child.

If not you you should have your parenthood legitimized. See:.How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

This 3 back to back take effect after August 13th or is't now allready?

I'm legal father by legitimization and plan is to get non-o in future obv.

[ubonjoe]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

[brewsterbudgen]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

[ubonjoe]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

Laotians fall into a different category because they get their entries based upon a bilateral agreement between the two countries. Thais get the same 30 days from it. I suspect Thailand might give a bit of leeway for them for fear of reprisal it they start turning away Laotians.

[brewsterbudgen]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

Laotians fall into a different category because they get their entries based upon a bilateral agreement between the two countries. Thais get the same 30 days from it. I suspect Thailand might give a bit of leeway for them for fear of reprisal it they start turning away Laotians.

I do hope you're right. But I'm fearful that after 12 August things might change.

[4evermaat]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

Laotians fall into a different category because they get their entries based upon a bilateral agreement between the two countries. Thais get the same 30 days from it. I suspect Thailand might give a bit of leeway for them for fear of reprisal it they start turning away Laotians.

I think that the border countries visa exempt stamp rules will be different for western and non regional neighbors. That's who the sules seem to be targeting.

In the same way that qualifying for a work permit is much different from a western foreigner than from a border foreigner (Laos, Cambodian, Vietnam, etc.)

[oldthaihand99]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

Laotians fall into a different category because they get their entries based upon a bilateral agreement between the two countries. Thais get the same 30 days from it. I suspect Thailand might give a bit of leeway for them for fear of reprisal it they start turning away Laotians.

I think that the border countries visa exempt stamp rules will be different for western and non regional neighbors. That's who the sules seem to be targeting.

In the same way that qualifying for a work permit is much different from a western foreigner than from a border foreigner (Laos, Cambodian, Vietnam, etc.)

Vietnam is one of three countries immigration is specially cracking down against, along with Russians & South Koreans. Now also in the past few days Cambodian workers in Thailand have been fleeing the country by the 10's of thousands. OTOH foreigners from a number of Western countries get special privileges at border crossings, i.e. instead of 15 days they get 30 days there. Overall it looks like Siam is opening the door for "higher quality" visitors & closing the door to others.

[Concerned expat]

Hi to all! What type of new rules could apply to Australian & New Zealand; EU or Canada / US passport holders? Obviously pay rates at home country are much higher and no reason to work in Thailand for a peanuts anyway. I am concern with a drop of demand for rental condos and subsequent loss of real estate values. How are new condominium projects developing now? Too many recent emails advertising "new discounts" and this is a measurable warning indicator.

Personally, I have seen many wealthy Russians under 50 who would not even bother to try to work and simply pay the rent or purchase a condo to spend European winter in Thailand. Also, seen many working in tourism / real estate industries. Not sure with or without the work permits. How Thai immigration would separate between quality visitors and illegal workers? One of the tenants in my condo is Russian and I can vouch for this tenant as definitely NOT working.

Daily consumption of alcohol with enjoyment of fresh air & sun at the beach is not a violation and many quality visitors just coming to Thailand for it. Anyone can suggest an easy to obtain visa for 6 to 12 months in a year? Thought of "educational / study visa" as an option to combine it with pleasure. Can a person with degree & above claim the need for a "study" in a beautiful Thailand?

[ubonjoe]

Getting a 3 entry tourist visa from you home country can give almost 9 months of stay without needing new a visa. Then getting a 1 or 2 entry tourist visa from a nearby embassy or consulate would make it a year easily.

A person with a degree could attend a language school to study Thai and get a ED visa and extension of stay.

[Tomtomtom69]

It is already being enforced at border crossings.

The August date was by air their would be some changes made.

My Lao girlfriend did her monthly border run to Cambodia (from Pattaya) last week, as she's done for the last 5 years, and got the usual 30-day stamp, so it's not being enforced 100% yet.

Laotians fall into a different category because they get their entries based upon a bilateral agreement between the two countries. Thais get the same 30 days from it. I suspect Thailand might give a bit of leeway for them for fear of reprisal it they start turning away Laotians.

I think that the border countries visa exempt stamp rules will be different for western and non regional neighbors. That's who the sules seem to be targeting.

In the same way that qualifying for a work permit is much different from a western foreigner than from a border foreigner (Laos, Cambodian, Vietnam, etc.)

The rules are targeting Vietnamese specifically (as well as Russians and South Koreans) and they have the same work permit rules as western foreigners. Only Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar are different for migrant labour type work.