Drop poll if too dangerous: Thai Army

[LivinLOS]

This is all very predictable- PDRC wont go home, army conveniently cannot hold elections because of this and will stay on in the current situation until the thing happens that this fight is really about.

Then the good army can make sure good people succeed. Voila job done.

The red shirts haven't gone home either, have they? It's the actions of the red shirts that caused the martial law.

28 people dead in 6 months is the reason for martial law? Behave. More people die on the roads everyday, why dont they impose martial law to combat pants driving if they are worried about the safety of the people.

Wait... What? What exactly is "pants driving?"

Are pairs of trousers somehow jumping off the drying line and getting behind the wheel?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pants

When your getting old and behind the times.. Try using tools to catch up on the vernacular.

[Piichai]

Come on see sense, the voters are in no state of mind to go and vote. Your expecting Thais to go and vote when the situation is like this. Again the government should NOT be included in a vote, they have violated enough during the 3 years in office --no second survival kit. get out.

If a mayor of a local town in UK cheats and violates the law he is thrown out, NOT put up for elections again.

Your bad police record is in the books for a long time---A dog is vicious it has to be put down or curtailed.

R Biggs the great train robber, when caught was not allowed to rob again.

Any politician that has a record of corruption/bad governing etc, should NEVER be allowed to stand again.

Hogwash

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If you think this is hogwash----tell me why or you just do not want the truth---come on speak your on forum.

How can you say that people don't want to vote? They do. Just let them. And frankly seeing gie one sided the judiciary is, I have no faith in that institution. They exist to serve themselves and their political masters. they are a parasite on Thai society.

I seem to recall a large number of no votes and voided ballots in the recently annulled election.

And just a few days ago, a Dusit poll showed that about 60% don't want quick elections. Sounds like a majority to me, not a ridiculous 48% majority some keep bringing up.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Piichai

[robblok]

This is all very predictable- PDRC wont go home, army conveniently cannot hold elections because of this and will stay on in the current situation until the thing happens that this fight is really about.

Then the good army can make sure good people succeed. Voila job done.

The red shirts haven't gone home either, have they? It's the actions of the red shirts that caused the martial law.

Wrong, had the rebels not prevented Thais from voting in the Feb 2nd elections, we would have av governmentright now

But for how long? Just to enable PTP to begin raping the country again? PDRC would still be in the streets and there are a few cases working their way through the system that could pose a serious problem for PTP.

Without reforms it is senseless to have another election.

Indeed without reforms to keep the PTP from raping the country we will be back in the same situation again and again.

Some tough anti corruption laws, and of course the slashing of the NAC budget by 50% should be undone (PTP has slashed the bugdet so the NAC can't check them good enough and refuses to let people audit their books).

As long as the PTP would not be so corrupt and arrogant and play within the rules I have no problems with them. But how they handled the rice scam, and how they tried to get Taksin back, the multiple votes by one senator (illigal) and stuff like that shows they have no respect. Combine that with putting a Shin on all the important positions to hide their corruption and make sure it cant get investigated does not help the case much either.

So first reforms to make sure they won't do that again then I would have NO problem if they won the ellection. Its one thing to be against a corrupt government that abuses it power its an other thing to be against a government that has different views as yours. The first I would fight the second I can accept.

Mind you if by some chance an other party comes to power they will also have to play fair because of stronger rules. Only the corrupt fear reforms.. guess why PTP does not want them.

[LivinLOS]

How can you say that people don't want to vote? They do. Just let them. And frankly seeing gie one sided the judiciary is, I have no faith in that institution. They exist to serve themselves and their political masters. they are a parasite on Thai society.

I seem to recall a large number of no votes and voided ballots in the recently annulled election.

And just a few days ago, a Dusit poll showed that about 60% don't want quick elections. Sounds like a majority to me, not a ridiculous 48% majority some keep bringing up.

If this is so much the case.. why the refusal to have a referendum on the subject ??

[Piichai]

The Army should be supporting elections not trying to stop them from happening. You the Army gave their support and did something we would have elections. However, is that is real goal?

Having any elections with out solving the real problems of having free elections is a wast of money and time

election in name only

better to wait till free elections can be held, than rush into another biased election

In other words, we will only have elections when we can gand the system to assure that or side would win. Correct? To you, fair elections are ones where the preferred side wins. If the other side wins, than obviously the elections weren't fair.

The issue isn't that one side or the other wins; the issue is nepotism, cronyism, rascalism, habitual abusers of the public's trust, and a lack of transparency.

[retsdon]

If the military wanted an election they would take measures to ensure that one was held.

Thailand isn't Syria. The Army has free rein to deploy personnel anywhere and anytime they like. They have the power to arrest and detain whoever they like for 7 days - almost certainly with the option to renew the detention and re-arrest almost indefinitely. They have the power to stop and search anyone, to enter buildings, to close down inflammatory broadcasters. If an election can't be secured under such circumstances - when can it be secured?

The answer is that will be deemed 'safe' to hold an election when the desired outcome can be guaranteed. Until those pieces are put in place, the army will claim an inability to do its job.

[chotthee]

The Army should be supporting elections not trying to stop them from happening. You the Army gave their support and did something we would have elections. However, is that is real goal?

Having any elections with out solving the real problems of having free elections is a wast of money and time

election in name only

better to wait till free elections can be held, than rush into another biased election

In other words, we will only have elections when we can gand the system to assure that or side would win. Correct? To you, fair elections are ones where the preferred side wins. If the other side wins, than obviously the elections weren't fair.

The issue isn't that one side or the other wins; the issue is nepotism, cronyism, rascalism, habitual abusers of the public's trust, and a lack of transparency.

Election is a western concept, a selection by statistic, with no guarantee that the good people are elected.

Election is not applicable to Thailand.

In Thailand, appointment is preferred, so my can be 100% certain that Thai appointed the right people to rule the country.

[citizen33]

We had an election which international observers said was broadly fair, and as we all know it was voided by the court. Make no mistake that election would have brought the PTP back to power. It does not matter how many spoilt their votes; under the democratic system they had the opportunity to cast legitimate votes and did not - because they knew what the outcome would be. Now we see prevarication, evasion, delay - anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will, because they outcome will not be the one the ruling elite desires. The violet ribbons worn by the solders says it all. The usual suspects can dress this up any way they want, but their support for totalitarianism is all too obvious.

Edited May 21, 2014 by citizen33

[Piichai]

If they decide to push ahead with elections that will fail again, make sure the PTP agree to pay for waste of taxpayer money first.

These people are ridiculous.

TVGerry, You seem to either not know or simply don't support the laws of the land.

just to put you in the picture ok,

Government was dissolved, so by LAW (not at the whim of the PTP) elections must be held within 60 days FACT weather you like it or not.

The government followed the law by holding the elections much to the dislike and illegal protesting of the EC.

YOUR hero Suthep called on his THUGS to prevent any voting by as many people as they could, Illegal FACT. so your mate should be the one who paid for the now nullified election due the law breaking intimidating bashing, beating, threatening, Suthep's attack dogs.

If Suthep followed the law (which so many here cry about the government dose't do) then there would be a government now, All of this is fact and all your winging can't change it. you can't bitch about one side not following the law and hail the other side breaking the very same country's laws.

YES there should be a new election asap and any who try to interfere should be thrown in goal.

Now you up to speed popit?

Your popit remark was condescending, and your premise is incorrect.

The CC voted unanimously that the EC could delay elections. The EC's mistake is that they should have done so unilaterally, which at this point it's important to mention that it was not a unanimous decision from the CC that the EC should discuss delaying the election with the government.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on see sense, the voters are in no state of mind to go and vote. Your expecting Thais to go and vote when the situation is like this. Again the government should NOT be included in a vote, they have violated enough during the 3 years in office --no second survival kit. get out.

If a mayor of a local town in UK cheats and violates the law he is thrown out, NOT put up for elections again.

Your bad police record is in the books for a long time---A dog is vicious it has to be put down or curtailed.

R Biggs the great train robber, when caught was not allowed to rob again.

Any politician that has a record of corruption/bad governing etc, should NEVER be allowed to stand again.

and how can you draw the conclusion that Thais don't want to have a say in how they are governed?

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Not draw any conclusion, by all means let them have a say at the polls--healthy. You throw out the bad, then let them have a vote to choose the best that's left.

Define bad?

How many politicians left?

Anyone who is found guilty of offences against the state=BAD. your second question is ??? whoever wants to be nominated without any blemishes-if you can find. if not ARMY rule better than ?????

Is or has been found guilty?

My lord. If they rounded up anyone in Thai politics who has been removed at any point for malfeasance, dishonesty or law breaking there wouldn't be anyone left.

Abhisit would have to sit next to Korn to make a parliament of two.

I dislike this definition and use of Khon Dee. No politician in Thailand barely the world is above reproach.

[chotthee]

We had an election which international observers said was broadly fair, and as we all know it was voided by the court. Make no mistake that election would have brought the PTP back to power. It does not matter how many spoilt their votes; under the democratic system they had the opportunity to cast legitimate votes and did not - because they knew what the outcome would be. Now we see prevarication, evasion, delay - anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will, because they outcome will not be the one the ruling elite desires. The violet ribbons worn by the solders says it all. The usual suspects can dress this up any way they want, but their support for totalitarianism is all too obvious.

"... anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will..."

Thai people have already express their will to have an appointed PM by Suthep.

​Why can't Farang simply grasp this?

[Thai at Heart]

We had an election which international observers said was broadly fair, and as we all know it was voided by the court. Make no mistake that election would have brought the PTP back to power. It does not matter how many spoilt their votes; under the democratic system they had the opportunity to cast legitimate votes and did not - because they knew what the outcome would be. Now we see prevarication, evasion, delay - anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will, because they outcome will not be the one the ruling elite desires. The violet ribbons worn by the solders says it all. The usual suspects can dress this up any way they want, but their support for totalitarianism is all too obvious.

"... anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will..."

Thai people have already express their will to have an appointed PM by Suthep.

​Why can't Farang simply grasp this?

Is that "people" plural?

[Bangmod]

As long as scum like Thaksin, Jattuporn, Thida and more are still roaming the face of the earth, the Army should stay in charge and no election should be hold, for the sake of the country

[citizen33]

"... anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will..."

Thai people have already express their will to have an appointed PM by Suthep.

​Why can't Farang simply grasp this?

I suppose then that in your world the people of the N and NE are not Thai. Globalisation and history are powerful forces to try to hold back.

[casualbiker]

How can you say that people don't want to vote? They do. Just let them. And frankly seeing gie one sided the judiciary is, I have no faith in that institution. They exist to serve themselves and their political masters. they are a parasite on Thai society.

I seem to recall a large number of no votes and voided ballots in the recently annulled election.

And just a few days ago, a Dusit poll showed that about 60% don't want quick elections. Sounds like a majority to me, not a ridiculous 48% majority some keep bringing up.

If this is so much the case.. why the refusal to have a referendum on the subject ??

Who's refusing? Jatuporn spouted on stage about it but hasn't ACTUALLY spoken to anyone .(it was actually Amsterdam's idea). and is in no position to.. that's the governments job to find a way out ( not the governments militia) but THEY the PTP government have been painfully lacking. Hence Prayuth trying to get all party talks going!

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[CaptHaddock]

As predicted, there will be no elections anytime soon. The whole purpose of the coup and Suthep's fascist mob is to disenfranchise the majority of Thais who are quite clear about whom they want to run the government. The spurious rationale of protecting life is being used now, as it was in the 2006 coup, to seize power from the elected government and restore it to the minority ammart. Prayuth previously stated the goal of the Army was to protect the protestors, certainly not the government or the right to vote of the Thai citizenry. It would be hard to make matters any clearer.

Elections will one day be held, prehaps years from now, when sufficient "reforms" have been made to the constitution to ensure that non-elected officials hold all the real power and can continue to remove elected governments at will.

Edited May 21, 2014 by CaptHaddock

[Piichai]

If they decide to push ahead with elections that will fail again, make sure the PTP agree to pay for waste of taxpayer money first.

These people are ridiculous.

TVGerry, You seem to either not know or simply don't support the laws of the land.

just to put you in the picture ok,

Government was dissolved, so by LAW (not at the whim of the PTP) elections must be held within 60 days FACT weather you like it or not.

The government followed the law by holding the elections much to the dislike and illegal protesting of the EC.

YOUR hero Suthep called on his THUGS to prevent any voting by as many people as they could, Illegal FACT. so your mate should be the one who paid for the now nullified election due the law breaking intimidating bashing, beating, threatening, Suthep's attack dogs.

If Suthep followed the law (which so many here cry about the government dose't do) then there would be a government now, All of this is fact and all your winging can't change it. you can't bitch about one side not following the law and hail the other side breaking the very same country's laws.

YES there should be a new election asap and any who try to interfere should be thrown in goal.

Now you up to speed popit?

Your understanding of Thai Law is only surpassed by you keen grasp of the complex political machinations being played out.

So where, in your summing up, do you mention all the laws the PTP administration broke?

Oh, they came from election. Can do what they want. They clearly believed that - looks like you do to.

OK where in my post about laws is wrong??? IT IS CORRECT!!! like I said all your pissing and bitching wont change that, the government held elections within the lawfully required 60 day limit, SO my understanding of this small part of Thai law is absolutely correct,

but you seem to have a problem with the facts,

Suthep and his attack dogs broke many laws by preventing people voting, FACT.

I didn't say anywhere in my post PTP administration didn't break any laws, that judgment has been made by the courts. (BIAS)

The problem is some here cry foul when one government is acting illegally and then cheer when the other side of the political fence breaks the law, I'm simply saying you cant have it both ways, either support laws or not, and don't complain when others don't follow the laws.

you ok now big fella?

It was not illegal for the EC to "protest" the elections. The CC ruled so at the time.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The Army should be supporting elections not trying to stop them from happening. You the Army gave their support and did something we would have elections. However, is that is real goal?

Their will be no elections before reform - plain and simple!!! Get used to it!! .

[northernjohn]

No use organising an election if it will be nullified same the last one. It would only mean throwing away more billions. When one is being held however, the military must see to it that all voters can vote in safety.

Before a new election the stalemate between the two rivals must be broken. That can not be done by force. Talks between the parties are needed for that.

It looks like now that martial law has been imposed on Thailand the reluctant ones who want it all their own way will be forced to discuss it. This is a good thing.

The refusal of the two major sides to discuss it has brought on to much controversy and served only to widen the gap in the civilians.

[northernjohn]

As predicted, there will be no elections anytime soon. The whole purpose of the coup and Suthep's fascist mob is to disenfranchise the majority of Thais who are quite clear about whom they want to run the government. The spurious rationale of protecting life is being used now, as it was in the 2006 coup, to seize power from the elected government and restore it to the minority ammart. Prayuth previously stated the goal of the Army was to protect the protestors, certainly not the government or the right to vote of the Thai citizenry. It would be hard to make matters any clearer.

Elections will one day be held, prehaps years from now, when sufficient "reforms" have been made to the constitution to ensure that non-elected officials hold all the real power and can continue to remove elected governments at will.

Would it be asking to much to have you repost your post after you edited out the BS and made some sense to it?

Opinions are OK they may differ but out right false hoods are not OK. Let me give you a clue in the years since the coup the Thaksin run parties have been in power most of the time. Also there has been no coup in 2014. Do try to make some semblance of sense out of facts.

My apologies to you if you received your education in the red shirt schools that tought Democracy.

Edited May 21, 2014 by northernjohn

[Piichai]

it will be interesting to see where it goes i doubt the PDRC and co would attempt to disrupt an election under the gaze of the army. .

It may very well be beyond the PDRC at this point; Suthep has made people feel empowered.

Maybe or maybe not.

The only way to find out is by holding elections and giving the people the chance to express their democratic rights as laid out in the constitution.

Furthermore, the claim that the Army would be unable to provide the necessary security to hold a poll brings in to question the complete rationale for invoking this so called Martial Law.

Having run a business or two in my life, I never cared much for people that used broken tools.

Having not seen the landscape change, another election would only bring more nepotism, cronyism, rascalism, abusing the public's trust, and lack of transparency.

I'm willing to listen if you come up with a good idea, but having elections without a free and fair political landscape just doesn't make sense.

The rationale for martial law was not so elections could be held. Martial law was imposed because some people couldn't be civil. It's no more complicated than that.

[smutcakes]

it will be interesting to see where it goes i doubt the PDRC and co would attempt to disrupt an election under the gaze of the army. .

It may very well be beyond the PDRC at this point; Suthep has made people feel empowered.

Maybe or maybe not.

The only way to find out is by holding elections and giving the people the chance to express their democratic rights as laid out in the constitution.

Furthermore, the claim that the Army would be unable to provide the necessary security to hold a poll brings in to question the complete rationale for invoking this so called Martial Law.

Having run a business or two in my life, I never cared much for people that used broken tools.

Having not seen the landscape change, another election would only bring more nepotism, cronyism, rascalism, abusing the public's trust, and lack of transparency.

I'm willing to listen if you come up with a good idea, but having elections without a free and fair political landscape just doesn't make sense.

The rationale for martial law was not so elections could be held. Martial law was imposed because some people couldn't be civil. It's no more complicated than that.

For the 10 millionth time, how, who etc can change what needs to be changed............. yawn

[Piichai]

28 people dead in 6 months is the reason for martial law? Behave. More people die on the roads everyday, why dont they impose martial law to combat pants driving if they are worried about the safety of the people.

Wait... What? What exactly is "pants driving?"

Are pairs of trousers somehow jumping off the drying line and getting behind the wheel?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pants

When your getting old and behind the times.. Try using tools to catch up on the vernacular.

Yeah, cause I'm worried about not being a hipster...

[Piichai]

How can you say that people don't want to vote? They do. Just let them. And frankly seeing gie one sided the judiciary is, I have no faith in that institution. They exist to serve themselves and their political masters. they are a parasite on Thai society.

I seem to recall a large number of no votes and voided ballots in the recently annulled election.

And just a few days ago, a Dusit poll showed that about 60% don't want quick elections. Sounds like a majority to me, not a ridiculous 48% majority some keep bringing up.

If this is so much the case.. why the refusal to have a referendum on the subject ??

A referendum will come in due time.

Framework - seems to be settled

Reforms

Referendum

Elections

[Fat Haggis]

How many members here who are demanding reforms before an election actually have a right to vote in the next elections.?

I'd be genuinely interested as I have a sneaky suspicion that there actually isn't that many, and that many others are just posting to wind people up, if you have the right to vote, and you wish for reforms that's commendable, and your choice to make ,but if you don't have a right to vote, then what gives you the right to demand reforms that are down to the Thai electorate to decide what reforms they want, or don't want?

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[Chicog]

It is only a Coup if they cancel elections

It is a coup if they cancel the constitution.

[Piichai]

In other words, we will only have elections when we can gand the system to assure that or side would win. Correct? To you, fair elections are ones where the preferred side wins. If the other side wins, than obviously the elections weren't fair.

The issue isn't that one side or the other wins; the issue is nepotism, cronyism, rascalism, habitual abusers of the public's trust, and a lack of transparency.

Election is a western concept, a selection by statistic, with no guarantee that the good people are elected.

Election is not applicable to Thailand.

In Thailand, appointment is preferred, so my can be 100% certain that Thai appointed the right people to rule the country.

Maybe there's some truth to that.

[Piichai]

We had an election which international observers said was broadly fair, and as we all know it was voided by the court. Make no mistake that election would have brought the PTP back to power. It does not matter how many spoilt their votes; under the democratic system they had the opportunity to cast legitimate votes and did not - because they knew what the outcome would be. Now we see prevarication, evasion, delay - anything to stop the Thai people having the opportunity to express their will, because they outcome will not be the one the ruling elite desires. The violet ribbons worn by the solders says it all. The usual suspects can dress this up any way they want, but their support for totalitarianism is all too obvious.

People spoil their ballots because they were forced to vote and they didn't want to.

[robblok]

How many members here who are demanding reforms before an election actually have a right to vote in the next elections.?

I'd be genuinely interested as I have a sneaky suspicion that there actually isn't that many, and that many others are just posting to wind people up, if you have the right to vote, and you wish for reforms that's commendable, and your choice to make ,but if you don't have a right to vote, then what gives you the right to demand reforms that are down to the Thai electorate to decide what reforms they want, or don't want?

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Just as much rights as you have NONE.

I have seldom seen a more stupid remark made, we (i take it you have no rights either) have no power and can demand all we want for both sides red or yellow but it wont make an impact. We are just sharing our views here and have as much right as you have to demand no reforms.

You have as much right to have your views here as we have.. and you have as much power as we have.. NONE.

[Fat Haggis]

Even if you won an election with 50.1 % of the votes! which is classed as a majority by the way! still means that 49.9% think your still a tosser !!!!

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