International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Zooheekock]

You mean that now that reforms will truly be started the country will experience widespread violence?

Since 'reform' is almost certainly going to be double-speak for repression and an even less democratic constitution, then yes, there is a risk. Already, if you listen to the underground radio, you hear the talk.

There was a strong possibility the country would experience long and protracted low grade political violence and killing

The country was experiencing low grade political violence so there's no 'possibility' about it. However, this was as a result of an extreme reactionary/fascist insurrection which has now succeeded and as a result of that success, the possibility of a significant increase in the scale of violence has risen dramatically.

the way it has always experienced under the influence of Thaksin's reds. The army's action has prevented that.

It's not Thaksin's fault that a ragtag mob of spoilt brats, fruitloops, fascists, hired thugs and commercial interests have, yet again, overthrown democracy and replaced it with a military junta.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Zooheekock

[sumtingwong]

“Violence,” came the retort, “is the last refuge of the incompetent.” - Isaac Asimov

[rubl]

You mean that now that reforms will truly be started the country will experience widespread violence?

Since 'reform' is almost certainly going to be double-speak for repression and an even less democratic constitution, then yes, there is a risk. Already, if you listen to the underground radio, you hear the talk.

That's your assumption / opinion. Mine is different.

BTW I don't listen to underground radio and certainly not the UDD kind and that has nothing to do with it being illegal under Martial Law as well. Of course I assume you're not suggesting I break the law, now do you?

[Publicus]

You mean that now that reforms will truly be started the country will experience widespread violence?

Since 'reform' is almost certainly going to be double-speak for repression and an even less democratic constitution, then yes, there is a risk. Already, if you listen to the underground radio, you hear the talk.

That's your assumption / opinion. Mine is different.

BTW I don't listen to underground radio and certainly not the UDD kind and that has nothing to do with it being illegal under Martial Law as well. Of course I assume you're not suggesting I break the law, now do you?

rubl no one on this side would ever suggest you should or might go ahead to break the law, not in a million years would any of us over here even consider such a thing.

We over on this side know you've never broken the law.

Rest assured we respect your legal chastity.

[rubl]

You mean that now that reforms will truly be started the country will experience widespread violence?

Since 'reform' is almost certainly going to be double-speak for repression and an even less democratic constitution, then yes, there is a risk. Already, if you listen to the underground radio, you hear the talk.

That's your assumption / opinion. Mine is different.

BTW I don't listen to underground radio and certainly not the UDD kind and that has nothing to do with it being illegal under Martial Law as well. Of course I assume you're not suggesting I break the law, now do you?

rubl no one on this side would ever suggest you should or might go ahead to break the law, not in a million years would any of us over here even consider such a thing.

We over on this side know you've never broken the law.

Rest assured we respect your legal chastity.

To be honest I have been an 'illegal alien' once when due to misunderstanding my visa/workpermit was done a week too late. I had to sign a form on which about the only English was "the accused", the spot where I had to put my signature. That and a few thousand Baht fine and the usual paperwork made me a 'legal alien' again.

Your side seems to be outside Thailand.

[Publicus]

To blurb that the military mutiny coup d'état is a success is a wild, irresponsible and extreme claim that is completely unsupportable in any respect. The fact of the coup itself is a statement of the failure of the Thai state, Thai society, civility itself. Every action of the military ruling council only digs the hole deeper.

The military did nothing to stop fascist thugs from assaulting innocent voters at the polls, a fatal failure of omission that began the country's irreversible slide into its present morass, as in fact was the design and purpose of its elites in Bangkok.

The severe and sharp differences you reference were the creation of people who have consciously chosen to reject democracy and who are callous toward civil society, people who are knowingly and willfully provocative. The Bangkok elites have deliberately rejected democracy and democratic processes, so they necessarily had to resort to the streets and to street mobs to assert themselves politically.

The lawless anarchy of the Bangkok ammarts and their disrespect of the rule of law have created a vacuum of law and order that will come up and bite them in their arse. Those who seed the clouds to create storms must necessarily reap the whirlwind they themselves create.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell. I am pleased to clear the roads for them except that they are taking the country with them. Which means there are tens of millions of Thais the Bangkok ammarts don't care about in any way, shape, form.

This is their perverse mark of success you are blurbing about.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell.

That would be the Red Shirts and their political masters with their calls for civil war, secesion and their acts of terrorism against the people of Thailand.

You are certain you are clever.

Very sad indeed.

Laughably so.

So the actions by the Red Shirts and those that control them were of no consequence to the current situation?

You need to stop digging.

I'd assume you do take breaks from your incessant digging. So you might want to take my sentence you grossly misplaced into your own post and return it to my post, thx. Your post with my sentence in it are incongruent.

That means my sentence and your statement clash, that they are disparate, are in disagreement. The two are Incompatible, discordant.

That means that you, while intending to concoct a match, did in face fumble up a mismatch - a complete mismatch.

[heybruce]

Maybe this will help you out on the poll issue.

Margin of error http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Sample Size Calculator by Raosoft, Inc. http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

How the people polled were selected, what questions were asked, and how the analysis was done are all at least as important as the sample size.

[heybruce]

"take this or live under military rule" referendum.

So according to your logic up to 75% of the people in the North and the North East and in fact most PTP strong holds that voted against the referendum wanted to live under military rule? They gave a reverberating NO to the referendum and what allowed it to pass was the reverberating YES in the central and Southern provinces.

In fact if you look at the Yes and No vote map for the referendum it is eerily a reverse map of the 2011 election results on the right. So the 2011 election voting was respected because it suited the PTP agenda, but the referendum voting was not respected because it did not suit the agenda.

the voters knew or should have known that would be the case and voted for PTP anyway. So this result will be respected.

The referendum voters knew or should have known that they would have lived under military rule if they voted NO and they voted NO anyway. But this result won't be respected.

PTP logic right there. Only respect the majority when it suits the PTP agenda.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, it was a flawed constitution approved as the lesser of the two evils given. Perhaps you're just trying to take the topic off on some kind of tangent. If so, I decline to participate.

He's certain in the absolute his mind produces only perfect logic and that all logic is necessarily and conclusively correct, accurate, true. His absolute reliance on logic and his complete dependency on his peculiar logic regularly takes him where no man has gone before.

Ever deeper and deeper away and into it.

I gave up on the guy sometime during February (don't know his Stardate for our February). I only and sometimes happen to see a post of his as a quote in another poster's post, such as above. What a relief. Highly effective approach that is highly recommended.

Yet you cannot rebut the facts as well.

This is seen all too often from PTP supporters when they are caught out.

I suggest don't even reply when caught out guys.

I assume that is why you didn't reply to post #323, the one that came immediately before Publicus's post.

By the way, just because people support democracy and oppose coups doesn't mean they are PTP supporters. One of the reason I wanted to see an election in July is because I think it would have shown a significant fall in support for the PTP, with votes going to a party representing the interests of the majority (not the Democrats) but not affiliated with Thaksin . Of course we'll never know now, will we?

[AleG]

So the actions by the Red Shirts and those that control them were of no consequence to the current situation?

You need to stop digging.

I'd assume you do take breaks from your incessant digging. So you might want to take my sentence you grossly misplaced into your own post and return it to my post, thx. Your post with my sentence in it are incongruent.

That means my sentence and your statement clash, that they are disparate, are in disagreement. The two are Incompatible, discordant.

That means that you, while intending to concoct a match, did in face fumble up a mismatch - a complete mismatch.

So, in short, you don't want to answer the question. Why don't you want to answer the question?

[rabas]

Rabas said: the way it has always experienced under the influence of Thaksin's reds. The army's action has prevented that.

It's not Thaksin's fault that a ragtag mob of spoilt brats, fruitloops, fascists, hired thugs and commercial interests have, yet again, overthrown democracy and replaced it with a military junta.

I see. Thaksin and his reds were "obligated" to throw hundreds of grenades, maiming and killing large numbers of citizens.

Logic weeps.

[Zooheekock]

That's your assumption / opinion. Mine is different.

It's not an 'assumption'. Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta. That seems like fairly clear evidence of intent, if any were needed.

BTW I don't listen to underground radio and certainly not the UDD kind and that has nothing to do with it being illegal under Martial Law as well. Of course I assume you're not suggesting I break the law, now do you?

I didn't suggest anything in my post, as any vaguely competent speaker of English will confirm for you. However, given the travails facing the country, you would be wise to consult sources of news and opinion other than the idiocy and witless propaganda with which this forum overflows.

[Luger2]

Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta.

Who?

[citizen33]

Several Asian publications are today reporting this EU statement by Catherine Ashton from May 28th

http://www.eu-un.europa.eu/articles/en/article_15075_en.htm

The Economist has a new article today, as does Reuters.

Also the other thread on the Thai Ambassador to the UK is interesting.

Edited May 30, 2014 by citizen33

[Piichai]

Rabas said: the way it has always experienced under the influence of Thaksin's reds. The army's action has prevented that.

It's not Thaksin's fault that a ragtag mob of spoilt brats, fruitloops, fascists, hired thugs and commercial interests have, yet again, overthrown democracy and replaced it with a military junta.

I see. Thaksin and his reds were "obligated" to throw hundreds of grenades, maiming and killing large numbers of citizens.

Logic weeps.

Jesus too.

[JRSoul]

Sky News in Oz is finishing their latest report from Thailand with the following sentence:

"His (Thaksin's) opponents in the establishment, military and among the Bangkok middle classes view the entire Shinawatra family as corrupt."

There is also another paragraph which points out that the turmoil centres on Thaksin and that he is in self-imposed exile due to a corruption conviction.

Truth will come out, slowly but surely.

[triffid]

Ho, hum ...... Another week and another issue of The Economist not allowed into Thailand. (Just received notice emailed to subscribers here). The 'sensitive' article can be read on their website.

[Zooheekock]

Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta.

Who?

Andrew Marshall is a good English-language source for this kind of stuff.

[rubl]

Ho, hum ...... Another week and another issue of The Economist not allowed into Thailand. (Just received notice emailed to subscribers here). The 'sensitive' article can be read on their website.

The "in for a long haul" article may contain descriptions deemed sensitive and close to LM!

[rubl]

Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta.

Who?

Andrew Marshall is a good English-language source for this kind of stuff.

You answer a question not asked and don't answer the question asked.

[Zooheekock]

Given the current climate, I'm not going to name names. Answers can be found with a minimum level of effort through AMM, though it's a bit depressing to see at this late stage that people actually need help with questions like this.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Zooheekock

[Publicus]

Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta.

Who?

Andrew Marshall is a good English-language source for this kind of stuff.

You answer a question not asked and don't answer the question asked.

rubl you consistently and persistently ask indiscrete questions and require politically sensitive answers during a highly volatile time.

Someone has to point this out to you so you can know what so many others over on this side well know.

So I speak to you as if I were someone's Dutch uncle to advise you, to request of you, to use your better judgement, to think twice before demanding of myself, as you have done, or of others, as you also do do, that they name names.

The constitution is vacated by the ruling military council. There are no standing laws in Thailand. The few and only laws that exist are ad hoc laws spun out arbitrarily and summarily by the ruling military council of absolute rulers. You know this. Now kindly connect the dots, thx.

Cheers.

[rijit]

as reasonable an article as ive come across

news.yahoo.com/special-report-option-b-blueprint-thailands-coup-000803705.html

[GoodThaiGirl]

dont make statements that you cant back up publicus its simple isnt it...name names or dont write posts that are going to demand an answer your trolling then yes..or goading people..same.same...

[Zooheekock]

its simple isnt it

Yes, it is. In the current climate, it's just fking stupid to expect people to incriminate themselves in public - if someone wants to know, it's easy enough to find out this stuff. Of course, on this forum, all most people want is to have their odious beliefs confirmed, not challenged so the possibility of their actually doing some homework themselves is vanishingly small.

[Luger2]

Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta.

Who?

Andrew Marshall is a good English-language source for this kind of stuff.

What's wrong with Zooheekock saying who Zooheekock was talking about?

If you're not willing to explain yourself to even the most rudimentary question of aspects you bring up, what's the point of your posting?

[Luger2]

Given the current climate, I'm not going to name names. Answers can be found with a minimum level of effort through AMM, though it's a bit depressing to see at this late stage that people actually need help with questions like this.

Nonsense.

You make a flat out statement then completely disown and disavow it.

If you're not willing to complete what you start, then don't start your nonsense in the first place.

[rubl]

You answer a question not asked and don't answer the question asked.

rubl you consistently and persistently ask indiscrete questions and require politically sensitive answers during a highly volatile time.

Someone has to point this out to you so you can know what so many others over on this side well know.

So I speak to you as if I were someone's Dutch uncle to advise you, to request of you, to use your better judgement, to think twice before demanding of myself, as you have done, or of others, as you also do do, that they name names.

The constitution is vacated by the ruling military council. There are no standing laws in Thailand. The few and only laws that exist are ad hoc laws spun out arbitrarily and summarily by the ruling military council of absolute rulers. You know this. Now kindly connect the dots, thx.

Cheers.

When statements are made without further info, when on questions a vague answer is given as to 'look for yourself for the answer' I think you should consider not posting those statements we cannot verify, or may not be able to verify, or might lead to blocked sites.

Now as for the original statement "Two the PDRC's main backers now have very central roles in the junta." with the NCPO and it's advisors known, with PDRC backers known (thanks to CAPO Chalerm/Tarit) I see no reason why one shouldn't be able to provide names in this specific case.

Of course if you only want to suggest, insinuate something sinister or so ... ...

[Zooheekock]

You make a flat out statement then completely disown and disavow it.

I did neither. I told you exactly where to find the answer. If you don't want to do that, that is your choice.

[AleG]

- 'Unpredictable and volatile' - from the OP

Was what it was before the coup. It is much safer now that the commie red-shirt thugs have been removed.

Last time I checked, under a democracy, when politicians break the laws or violate the constitution, they are removed and sent to jail for their crimes. Even if they got 100% of the vote, a politician is not a dictator and does not have carte blanche to do anything they want. Getting elected under a Democracy is not a get out of jail free card, no matter how many people voted for you. And PTP got less than 50% of the vote, not even a majority.

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s). Yet these groundhog (coup) day generals keep trying and are determined to keep trying until they get it right, which will never happen because the coup d'état has never caused democracy to improve, not anywhere, not any time, not in any way(s).

Fahlang who came here to bask in a feudal preserve have shown they will advocate fiercely for it and defend it forcefully. And this coup is different but only because it intends to be forceful in the defense of the ancient regime of the Bangkok ammarts. So all criticisms of the former government are invalid in the many instances when the criticisms advocated a military mutiny coup d'état as the cure, because the cure is worse than the disease.

Yes, this "veto" coup is radically different than all previous "guardian" coups and the world knows it, which is why we see some of the global MSM already going straight to the top in their criticisms. The more you make noises in support of martial law militarism, the greater and the unprecedentedly tougher the global reaction is that you invite against it

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s).

How did Thailand move from absolute monarchy to a (flawed) democratic system?

Then of course, it's the 1974 coup in Portugal that reinstated Democracy in the country, so your premise is wrong.

The 1974 "Carnation Revolution" in Portugal deposed a long time fascist military dictator, Antonio Salazar, which made it the only coup of record in the 20th century to install democracy rather than to destroy it.

I remember it well as my many Portuguese American friends back home rejoiced over it.

The coup was literally a coup, i.e., a swift action. It was conducted by low level Army officers, captains and lieutenants who went over the heads of the military's geriatric high command and deposed them too. Tens of thousands of Portuguese citizens took to the streets to join the junior Army officers in ejecting the fascist militarist government they'd long ago grown to hate.

The only time the 1974 Carnation Revolution in Portugal is referred to as a "coup" it is called "The World's Coolest Coup" by the people of Portugal and by interested others globally.

It's the one single exception that makes the rule that a military mutiny coup d'état is horrible, reprehensible, must be rejected.

Kindly read the facts.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/portugal-honors-april-25-revolution-worlds-coolest-coup-n89666

In short, your categorical "No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way" is not true.

[In Town]

You guys will argue about anything! Its really pointless. No one is convinced. Facts like wet fishes are slapped in faces and people turn the other cheek and keep on as if nothing happened. Elementary rules of logic or reason are violated constantly. History is history. You can learn from it or ignore it, but beware, as sometimes it doesn't ignore you!