URGENT! No more real butter in Yok. Any other sources?

[cooked]

Some Crumpets to go with my pretend butter would be nice.

Easy enough to make, for crumpet rings you can cut bits off of old food tins, BigC has some cookie rings that will do it also.

[cooked]

(French) or European standards for butter:

Butter is churned cream of milk.

To be allowed to use the protected name: butter (in Europe) the product should contain at least 80% fat from milk (not the oil).

Milk from cows contains about 4% of milk-fat.

You'll need about 20 liters of milk to make 1 kilo of butter.

And that is why anything that sells below (let's say) 600-700 THB per/kilo can NEVER BE REAL BUTTER!

Note: The name Peanut butter, for example, is not allowed in Europe, therefore we call it peanut-spread or 'pindakaas' (in Dutch) using the name butter for anything else than the above product is not allowed.

In Europe I can buy cream with a minimum 35% fat content, and turn it into butter + butter milk in 10 minutes. (some supermarket chains make a point of selling cream with 30% fat, doesn't work). I have yet to find anything that will make butter here, and if I did it would work out expensive, but not at the price quoted here.

[hugocnx]

But,,,yes...Yok had this real dairy butter in the black pack. That disappeared already months ago, but they still had a cheaper version of that same dairy company.

So, you seem a bit out dated, but help is on it's way. The regular (not black) version will appear again in a month or so with any luck.

Yok orders when they are run all out. So does every Yok and then the original company runs out of stock as no one plans ahead.

Wait and see. Blue version like 605 Baht per 5 kilo, good stuff.

All the rest is crap. Butter is only butter when it says so as previous posters wrote. Butter oil is none significance.

[hugocnx]

(French) or European standards for butter:

Butter is churned cream of milk.

To be allowed to use the protected name: butter (in Europe) the product should contain at least 80% fat from milk (not the oil).

Milk from cows contains about 4% of milk-fat.

You'll need about 20 liters of milk to make 1 kilo of butter.

And that is why anything that sells below (let's say) 600-700 THB per/kilo can NEVER BE REAL BUTTER!

Note: The name Peanut butter, for example, is not allowed in Europe, therefore we call it peanut-spread or 'pindakaas' (in Dutch) using the name butter for anything else than the above product is not allowed.

In Europe I can buy cream with a minimum 35% fat content, and turn it into butter + butter milk in 10 minutes. (some supermarket chains make a point of selling cream with 30% fat, doesn't work). I have yet to find anything that will make butter here, and if I did it would work out expensive, but not at the price quoted here.

Yes, good option. Buy Milac cream at Makro at 125/liter and stir it up till it gets butter.

Sift the water out one or two times and you have butter.

Milac is 40% milkfat so you are left with maximum 400 g to 125 Baht, which is over 300 Baht a kilo.

Good price if you want to do the labor. Allowrie has real butter packs of 220 g for about 75 - 80 or so I remember. Cannot beat the factory.

[hugocnx]

Try DairyGold butter/margerine. It may suite your taste. Can spread it on sandwiches and can fry anything in it with a buttery taste.

Available at Rimping Tesco and Big C. Cigars via Thai Post please.

Edited June 19, 2014 by hugocnx

[beau thai]

Interesting what one finds to be URGENT, isn't it?

Well; at least it's proper food and not a shortage of Pepsi or Coke....aka Drain Cleaner !

If you say so...I don't consider something that is 100% fat calories to be "proper food".

Actually, it's between 80-85 percent fat. Whereas olive oil is virtually 100 percent fat. Which makes it even less proper.

I think it is claimed that olive oil lowers bad cholesterol and increases good cholesterol- unlike butter

[harrry]

nd not a shortage of Pepsi or Coke....aka Drain Cleaner !

If you say so...I don't consider something that is 100% fat calories to be "proper food".

Actually, it's between 80-85 percent fat. Whereas olive oil is virtually 100 percent fat. Which makes it even less proper.

I think it is claimed that olive oil lowers bad cholesterol and increases good cholesterol- unlike butter

Sadly though the Olive grove is only about 20% mono the rest is saturated and trans fat

see

www.choice.com.au/~/media/files/.../0501spreads.ashx

[cooked]

No point in buying olive oil in Thailand if it's health benefits you are looking for.

[Gonsalviz]

Considering that butter is not a huge part of my diet I just ain't that picky.

I would starve rather than use margerine.

[quidnunc]

What nonsense is this? Allowrie ( http://www.kimchuagroup.com/products/butter-spreads ), available is regular salted or unsalted; as well as DOZENS of spread varieties, is butter. Butter. And only Butter.

Wrong Note the 80% is not butterfat is butter oil..a different product

Butterfat and butter oil are the same thing.

Not true, butter oil is an oil with butter flavor. If you know a bit of chemics, you'll know that there is such a fluid like butter flavor.

Butter fat is the real stuff.

Sorry, no. butter oil is butterfat that's been separated out of the butter. And if you just look at the pricing you'll see that the compound butters or "butter" manufactured with butter oil are priced considerably higher than margarine. Unless you posit some sort of pricing conspiracy, this is the only explanaion for the difference in pricing that makes sense. To flavor oil with butter, all you have to do is add a chemical called diacetyl. Which is where margarines and any other non butter product get their buttery flavor from. Since that's the case, by your definition, virtually all butter-flavored margarines would be made with butter oil. This is why the manufactueres of "compound butter" are allowed to use "butter in the name". If they didn't use butter oil, they would have to call their stuff margarine.

Edited June 19, 2014 by quidnunc

[quidnunc]

I think it is claimed that olive oil lowers bad cholesterol and increases good cholesterol- unlike butter

There is some evidence that monosaturated oils like olive oil do help lower cholesterol. Your post doesn't claim any ill effects for butter but someone might infer from it that there are, In fact, the evidence now is overwhelmingly in favor of the fact that consumption of butter does not raise one's cholesterol level or contribute to heart disease.

[quidnunc]

No point in buying olive oil in Thailand if it's health benefits you are looking for.

Why is that?

[cooked]

It will have gone through a period of non cooled storage and transportation, which doesn't improve the quality. I admit that I am guessing a bit. Try http://foodfolk.net/olive-oil-faq/olive-oil-quality

[jaideeguy]

I just found the 'Home Fresh' facebook page in Thai and had the wife call them and they will be making deliveries up north this weekend, but have no shop outlets with Yok not doing business with them [for who knows why].

They did say that they would meet customer's at a central location and sell direct.................

or if any businesses would like to be a distributer, then they could add a fair profit and be their outlet up here in CM. Would anyone with a centrally located shop want to volunteer to do that? My neighbor and I would like 10kilos and maybe others would like to place orders if anyone can come up with an outlet.

They only speak Thai and their phone contact is 08 1695 5773.

let's make this work!!

[cloudhopper]

For those of us who would never do facebook exactly how does Home Fresh butter differ from the rest?

[jaideeguy]

CH, Their packaging and facebook page says that they are pure butter and my taste buds confirm it to me and it was priced at less than the margarine . Just spoke with Rob at Sausage King and he's possibly interested in selling it.

PS..........I don't do facebook either, so I had the wife do it.

Edited June 20, 2014 by jaideeguy

[murni]

Jaideeguy you are brilliant.

Cloudhopper, there is no comparision with the other Thai brands, they are like axle grease.

[jaideeguy]

Murni...........flattery will only get you butter, I hope.

CH, take it from Murni, as she is my baking guru and she knows her butter.

[beau thai]

I think it is claimed that olive oil lowers bad cholesterol and increases good cholesterol- unlike butter

There is some evidence that monosaturated oils like olive oil do help lower cholesterol. Your post doesn't claim any ill effects for butter but someone might infer from it that there are, In fact, the evidence now is overwhelmingly in favor of the fact that consumption of butter does not raise one's cholesterol level or contribute to heart disease.

Hmm- thought maybe my views on butter and cholesterol were from an urban myth. So your post prompted me to spend a couple of minutes on google. Both Mayo Clinic and British Heart Foundation promote this 'urban myth' - so I still wont be eating butter, as my cholesterol levels are a little higher than I like.

And maybe I am a foodie philistine but I am quite happy with low fat spreads (not all of them) rather than butter. Not a big deal for me but health wins over the small difference I detect in taste.

[quidnunc]

What nonsense is this? Allowrie ( http://www.kimchuagroup.com/products/butter-spreads ), available is regular salted or unsalted; as well as DOZENS of spread varieties, is butter. Butter. And only Butter.

Wrong Note the 80% is not butterfat is butter oil..a different product

Butterfat and butter oil are the same thing.

Not true, butter oil is an oil with butter flavor. If you know a bit of chemics, you'll know that there is such a fluid like butter flavor.

Butter fat is the real stuff.

The chemical you are referring to is diacetyl. It's a potent chemical that is naturally found in butter and there's even more of it in cultured butter. It is not butter oil As for butter oil, if you go to the discussion of butter in the Western Foods column, you'll find that someone pointed out that most of the Anchor butter sold here is actually manufactured in Indonesia. The chief ingredient in it is butter oil imported from New Zealand. New Zealand is one of the worlds leading exporters of dairy products. Why would New Zealand export flavored vegetable oil to Indonesia? Doesn't make economic sense. In addition, I've looked on the internet for any reference that would support your version of what butter oil is. Haven't found it. Another name for butter oil is ghee.

[quidnunc]

CH, Their packaging and facebook page says that they are pure butter and my taste buds confirm it to me and it was priced at less than the margarine . Just spoke with Rob at Sausage King and he's possibly interested in selling it.

PS..........I don't do facebook either, so I had the wife do it.

I really hope you are right but it just doesn't make economic sense. 5 kilos of the commodity butterfat cost more than than what Home Fresh is selling its product for. Even accounting for that fact that say 20% of their product isn't butterfat. And the price of butterfat is artificially low because of various government price supports in the United States and the EC. No such price suppors here. The only possible way I see this working is if these people own their own dairy and just love making butter.

[quidnunc]

I think it is claimed that olive oil lowers bad cholesterol and increases good cholesterol- unlike butter

There is some evidence that monosaturated oils like olive oil do help lower cholesterol. Your post doesn't claim any ill effects for butter but someone might infer from it that there are, In fact, the evidence now is overwhelmingly in favor of the fact that consumption of butter does not raise one's cholesterol level or contribute to heart disease.

Hmm- thought maybe my views on butter and cholesterol were from an urban myth. So your post prompted me to spend a couple of minutes on google. Both Mayo Clinic and British Heart Foundation promote this 'urban myth' - so I still wont be eating butter, as my cholesterol levels are a little higher than I like.

And maybe I am a foodie philistine but I am quite happy with low fat spreads (not all of them) rather than butter. Not a big deal for me but health wins over the small difference I detect in taste.

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

Edited June 21, 2014 by quidnunc

[Diplomatico]

Hmm- thought maybe my views on butter and cholesterol were from an urban myth. So your post prompted me to spend a couple of minutes on google. Both Mayo Clinic and British Heart Foundation promote this 'urban myth' - so I still wont be eating butter, as my cholesterol levels are a little higher than I like.

And maybe I am a foodie philistine but I am quite happy with low fat spreads (not all of them) rather than butter. Not a big deal for me but health wins over the small difference I detect in taste.

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

One of the articles you linked said this:

"He said people should try to eat foods that are typical of the Mediterranean diet, like nuts, fish, avocado, high-fiber grains and olive oil. A large clinical trial last year, which was not included in the current analysis, found that a Mediterranean diet with more nuts and extra virgin olive oil reduced heart attacks and strokes when compared with a lower fat diet with more starches."

And I have no doubt that a diet with more nuts, fish, avocado, high fiber grains and olive oil is a healthier diet.

That said, I lived in Italy for five years and Portugal for three years (Mediterranean countries, no?) and I certainly didn't see the residents eating a lot of nuts, avocado (huh? in Europe?), or high fiber grains. Fish and olive oil, yes. Not sure why those items are classified as part of a "Mediterranean diet"?

[quidnunc]

Hmm- thought maybe my views on butter and cholesterol were from an urban myth. So your post prompted me to spend a couple of minutes on google. Both Mayo Clinic and British Heart Foundation promote this 'urban myth' - so I still wont be eating butter, as my cholesterol levels are a little higher than I like.

And maybe I am a foodie philistine but I am quite happy with low fat spreads (not all of them) rather than butter. Not a big deal for me but health wins over the small difference I detect in taste.

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

One of the articles you linked said this:

"He said people should try to eat foods that are typical of the Mediterranean diet, like nuts, fish, avocado, high-fiber grains and olive oil. A large clinical trial last year, which was not included in the current analysis, found that a Mediterranean diet with more nuts and extra virgin olive oil reduced heart attacks and strokes when compared with a lower fat diet with more starches."

And I have no doubt that a diet with more nuts, fish, avocado, high fiber grains and olive oil is a healthier diet.

That said, I lived in Italy for five years and Portugal for three years (Mediterranean countries, no?) and I certainly didn't see the residents eating a lot of nuts, avocado (huh? in Europe?), or high fiber grains. Fish and olive oil, yes. Not sure why those items are classified as part of a "Mediterranean diet"?

I think that for people at risk of heart disease it does make sense to follow a Mediterranean diet. But cholesterol isn't implicated in causing heart disease.

Also, I'm not trying to hector anybody about what they should eat. I'm not a food fascist. If I choose to start my day with a hot bowl of triglycerides and trans fats, I don't need anybody scolding me. It's just that I think when there's good hard evidence for something (not the kind of unproven assertions that come from food faddists), people might like to know. For instance, formalin is commonly sprayed on meat and seafood (and sometimes even on fruit and vegetables) sold in the open air markets. I think that's a useful thing for people to know. What they do with that information is up to them.

[Diplomatico]

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

One of the articles you linked said this:

"He said people should try to eat foods that are typical of the Mediterranean diet, like nuts, fish, avocado, high-fiber grains and olive oil. A large clinical trial last year, which was not included in the current analysis, found that a Mediterranean diet with more nuts and extra virgin olive oil reduced heart attacks and strokes when compared with a lower fat diet with more starches."

And I have no doubt that a diet with more nuts, fish, avocado, high fiber grains and olive oil is a healthier diet.

That said, I lived in Italy for five years and Portugal for three years (Mediterranean countries, no?) and I certainly didn't see the residents eating a lot of nuts, avocado (huh? in Europe?), or high fiber grains. Fish and olive oil, yes. Not sure why those items are classified as part of a "Mediterranean diet"?

I think that for people at risk of heart disease it does make sense to follow a Mediterranean diet. But cholesterol isn't implicated in causing heart disease.

Also, I'm not trying to hector anybody about what they should eat. I'm not a food fascist. If I choose to start my day with a hot bowl of triglycerides and trans fats, I don't need anybody scolding me. It's just that I think when there's good hard evidence for something (not the kind of unproven assertions that come from food faddists), people might like to know. For instance, formalin is commonly sprayed on meat and seafood (and sometimes even on fruit and vegetables) sold in the open air markets. I think that's a useful thing for people to know. What they do with that information is up to them.

No criticism of your post intended. Tend to agree with much of what you've posted.

[cloudhopper]

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

Correct - butter really is better.]

[quidnunc]

(French) or European standards for butter:

Butter is churned cream of milk.

To be allowed to use the protected name: butter (in Europe) the product should contain at least 80% fat from milk (not the oil).

Milk from cows contains about 4% of milk-fat.

You'll need about 20 liters of milk to make 1 kilo of butter.

And that is why anything that sells below (let's say) 600-700 THB per/kilo can NEVER BE REAL BUTTER!

Note: The name Peanut butter, for example, is not allowed in Europe, therefore we call it peanut-spread or 'pindakaas' (in Dutch) using the name butter for anything else than the above product is not allowed.

In Europe I can buy cream with a minimum 35% fat content, and turn it into butter + butter milk in 10 minutes. (some supermarket chains make a point of selling cream with 30% fat, doesn't work). I have yet to find anything that will make butter here, and if I did it would work out expensive, but not at the price quoted here.

Yes, good option. Buy Milac cream at Makro at 125/liter and stir it up till it gets butter.

Sift the water out one or two times and you have butter.

Milac is 40% milkfat so you are left with maximum 400 g to 125 Baht, which is over 300 Baht a kilo.

Good price if you want to do the labor. Allowrie has real butter packs of 220 g for about 75 - 80 or so I remember. Cannot beat the factory.

Have you ever done this? Can you also turn water into wine? I'm asking because the Millac product for sale at Makro for 125 baht/liter is actually a cream substitute made mostly of buttermilk and hydrogenated vegetable fat. I think it has 6% cream added.

[quidnunc]

And that is why anything that sells below (let's say) 600 THB per/kilo can NEVER BE REAL BUTTER!

Well according to the current world price for butter fat (which does appear to have risen dramatically in recent months) and fx I calculate that it costs about 171 baht/kg so I dispute your assertion.

That price is correct.

But that is the price for the commodity butterfat.

So when the storage, transport to the factory, production process into butter, quality control, packing, distribution/logistics, marketing, retail mark-up, shelf-life loss, staffing and others are totally free of charge .../... THEN you can sell your butter for less than 600 THB per kilo.

Yes you are correct Sir,... or Madam,... because you're never really sure when dealing with trolls.

Actually, the price for the homefresh product was about 600 baht for 5 kilos. So that would be 120 baht per kilo

[quidnunc]

(French) or European standards for butter:

Butter is churned cream of milk.

To be allowed to use the protected name: butter (in Europe) the product should contain at least 80% fat from milk (not the oil).

Milk from cows contains about 4% of milk-fat.

You'll need about 20 liters of milk to make 1 kilo of butter.

And that is why anything that sells below (let's say) 600-700 THB per/kilo can NEVER BE REAL BUTTER!

Note: The name Peanut butter, for example, is not allowed in Europe, therefore we call it peanut-spread or 'pindakaas' (in Dutch) using the name butter for anything else than the above product is not allowed.

In Europe I can buy cream with a minimum 35% fat content, and turn it into butter + butter milk in 10 minutes. (some supermarket chains make a point of selling cream with 30% fat, doesn't work). I have yet to find anything that will make butter here, and if I did it would work out expensive, but not at the price quoted here.

I just made some butter from Foremost cream. Got 400 grams from 1 quart. I didn't think to weigh it before I churned the cream. Very nice fresh, clean taste. Next I'm going to try and make cultured butter.

Edited June 21, 2014 by quidnunc

[beau thai]

Hmm- thought maybe my views on butter and cholesterol were from an urban myth. So your post prompted me to spend a couple of minutes on google. Both Mayo Clinic and British Heart Foundation promote this 'urban myth' - so I still wont be eating butter, as my cholesterol levels are a little higher than I like.

And maybe I am a foodie philistine but I am quite happy with low fat spreads (not all of them) rather than butter. Not a big deal for me but health wins over the small difference I detect in taste.

Here is a summary of the recent study of the effects of eating saturated fats

:http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/study-questions-fat-and-heart-disease-link

And here is a summary of how saturated fats got villified in the first place:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303678404579533760760481486

What has now been implicated in causing heart disease is refined carbohydrates and trans fats.

One of the articles you linked said this:

"He said people should try to eat foods that are typical of the Mediterranean diet, like nuts, fish, avocado, high-fiber grains and olive oil. A large clinical trial last year, which was not included in the current analysis, found that a Mediterranean diet with more nuts and extra virgin olive oil reduced heart attacks and strokes when compared with a lower fat diet with more starches."

And I have no doubt that a diet with more nuts, fish, avocado, high fiber grains and olive oil is a healthier diet.

That said, I lived in Italy for five years and Portugal for three years (Mediterranean countries, no?) and I certainly didn't see the residents eating a lot of nuts, avocado (huh? in Europe?), or high fiber grains. Fish and olive oil, yes. Not sure why those items are classified as part of a "Mediterranean diet"?

Dont know about Italy but I know of avocado orchards in Spain and I use to grab the windfalls whenever I played tennis- in avocado season-, from the huge tree overhanging the edhe of the court. So, yep- part of a Med diet.