Is a sub-retirement age single person allowed to stay in Thailand?

[wat]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

[arthurwait]

Urban myths are great aren't they.

[wat]

Urban myths are great aren't they.

What urban myth? That Thailand wants unmarried people under 50 to stay in Thailand?

[Gulfsailor]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

[wat]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

That's fine if that's the case. 500,000 baht up front for 5 years of the elite card works out to a somewhat reasonable amount like you mentioned but having to pay 5 years in advance is quite the commitment when that money could be put to other uses.

If the official stance is everyone must either start a company or get the elite card then like I said that's fine if they feel that is the best course of action. But the rhetoric over the years and what they say publically now doesn't make it sound like they don't want the average person making a decent wage working for themselves or a foreign company online, it sounds like they don't want people taking reserved jobs for Thais.

As nice as Thailand is 2 million baht reserved capital and 4 salaried Thais doing what would amount to nothing but being names on an application is a pretty steep price to pay for someone who can just go and live in another country. I just don't think that is their intention with these changes, but I could be wrong of course and like you said they want everyone to start a company.

Paying tax would not be a problem and having a way to pay tax and get a legitimate visa would be nice. If they wanted to set a limit of 100,000 baht contributed via taxes that would fine too. Anything would be better than the current gap in the visa system for the large amount of tourists and long term stayers who make a living via the internet(it's just going to be a larger and larger number as time goes on as well).

Edited July 8, 2014 by wat

[Gulfsailor]

I agree with you that it is not easy to stay in Thailand unmarried, not working and under 50. I also think it would be a good idea for the Thai revenue department to be stricter on foreigners residing in Thailand but earning an income from online or offshore activity. Being in the country over 180 days would make you tax liable anyway. Just also allow people who spend less time here but do not reside in an other country to voluntarily apply for tax residence. Both mandatory and volunteered tax residents should in return be issued with a one year extension of stay, providing the paid tax meets a certain threshold. Win win for everyone.

But why don't they do this? And why are retirees of whom most don't pay tax here welcome anyway? I think this boils down to the Very strong Thai belief in Thainess. Similar to many xenophobic westerners don't like 'weird' foreign influences to be to obvious in their society. Thais do not like westerners telling them how to run their country. Retirees generally don't give a shit and are not trying to change the system. Young foreigners investing in a life and family here are generally much more outspoken on their beliefs to improve Thai society. Well this advise is as welcome to Thais as is the idea to introduce shariah law in Europe to most Europeans. Thais have an identity and are proud of that.

[moe666]

I do not think they will be making a exception to the rules for what maybe 5 per cent of the visitors here. If anyone made plans on staying in Thailand long term on tourist visas they were not thinking. Thailand has a long history of clamp downs on such people. No one to blame but themselves.

[paz]

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment.

You mean, start a company with your money that is all your, but that for the majority is legally owned by others.

[ukrules]

I do not think they will be making a exception to the rules for what maybe 5 per cent of the visitors here. If anyone made plans on staying in Thailand long term on tourist visas they were not thinking. Thailand has a long history of clamp downs on such people. No one to blame but themselves.

I've been here for many years on various O visas, tourist visas and a year long Ed visa at one point and it worked out just fine while it was allowed.

Now they've changed the rules I've changed my visa, simple.

[JLCrab]

To (succinctly I hope) answer the OP's query as to why the status quo, the Thai government wants companies to invest in online services that provide services both within and ex-Thailand and to employ Thai university graduates. Allowing someone to operate within Thailand without such requirements is a dis-incentive to those willing to make the commitments as desired by the Thai government.

[hawker9000]

Is a sub-retirement age single person allowed to stay in Thailand?

The answer is apparently yes, but only if the person is willing & able to foot the bill:

1) Start a business, hire some locals, and pay some taxes; or

2) The Investment VISA (requires a minimum investment in the country); or

3) The Thai "Elite Card" (500K baht/5yr most seem to be saying).

If the thai intent is to thin out the foreign herd, that oughta' just about do it...

Oh, but there's the ED VISA, too. I wouldn't bet the farm on that availability/those terms not changing too, and soon, though. 'Probably ripe for a nice thai-style smackdown... Don't feel bad though; I have a feeling changes are in the wind for the retired set as well.

[spacemand]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

I used to be married, live here 5 years based on that and have brought in between 1.5 and 2 million a year putting it into the local economy trying to use local labour and the mom and pop shop when possible, I have never taken a job from a Thai.

I have the oppurtunity to work for a online company from my home and make around the previous mentioned amount but since I am unmarried and under 50 the only way I can stay is opening a sham business where I employ 4 people that do nothing or a ED Visa that would be another scam.

I would be happy to pay taxes of the potentional income and I would not take a job from a Thai I just want to do it legally but its not possible for me, so I have no other choice than to move on.

Out of curiousti what Visa are you on?

[spacemand]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

That's fine if that's the case. 500,000 baht up front for 5 years of the elite card works out to a somewhat reasonable amount like you mentioned but having to pay 5 years in advance is quite the commitment when that money could be put to other uses.

If the official stance is everyone must either start a company or get the elite card then like I said that's fine if they feel that is the best course of action. But the rhetoric over the years and what they say publically now doesn't make it sound like they don't want the average person making a decent wage working for themselves or a foreign company online, it sounds like they don't want people taking reserved jobs for Thais.

As nice as Thailand is 2 million baht reserved capital and 4 salaried Thais doing what would amount to nothing but being names on an application is a pretty steep price to pay for someone who can just go and live in another country. I just don't think that is their intention with these changes, but I could be wrong of course and like you said they want everyone to start a company.

Paying tax would not be a problem and having a way to pay tax and get a legitimate visa would be nice. If they wanted to set a limit of 100,000 baht contributed via taxes that would fine too. Anything would be better than the current gap in the visa system for the large amount of tourists and long term stayers who make a living via the internet(it's just going to be a larger and larger number as time goes on as well).

I am in the same situation and you and no, there is no way to stay as a under 50, working online without being married, father a child or open a company.

[HidyHo]

Does anyone read? It's been stated that Elite 500,000/5 yr visa is an as option for those under 50 that wants to stay long term. I can understand people not wanting to choose this option but it's a valid option.

[DerkMR]

Even for retired people it's stricter now as there are early retirements below the age of 50.

I had a non-O retired, then I could just get Tourist and now with the demands for T-Visa on borderruns (e.g. show hotel booking) I just move to another country.

I'll miss the Thai food.

I won't miss the bureaucracy they put on the foreigners.

Bye,

Derk

[Pattaya46]

Does anyone read?

No, they prefer complain

I am in the same situation and you and no, there is no way to stay as a under 50, working online without being married, father a child or open a company.

Yes there are ways, and given again in post #11 above yours

Even for retired people it's stricter now as there are early retirements below the age of 50.

I had a non-O retired, then I could just get Tourist

I don't understand?? If you had a "non-O Retired" before, why can't you get one now?

[ubonjoe]

Even for retired people it's stricter now as there are early retirements below the age of 50.

I had a non-O retired, then I could just get Tourist and now with the demands for T-Visa on borderruns (e.g. show hotel booking) I just move to another country.

I'll miss the Thai food.

I won't miss the bureaucracy they put on the foreigners.

Bye,

Derk

You evidently had been getting multiple entry non-o visa from a consulate. There are some locations where that is no longer available or requires showing the same financial requirements as an extension of stay.

You could still get extensions of stay based upon retirement if you can meet the financial requirements.

[sae57]

Another obvious option is getting a low intensity job & a work permit. Many corporations, or even government agencies, might like to hire a consultant with particular skills.

[sanuk711]

When I lived in Oz back in the 90s, they also clamped down on different Visa's one was the ED visa. The Japanese at that time were affluent enough to want to come to Oz longer term--for a range of different activities, Surfer girls--Kids were all over where I lived (surfers paradise) when their schools were nearly 1,500 kl away in Melbourne, Many guys were there for the golf. As you could fly to Oz (same time zone) rent an apartment join the club & still be ahead of the price of joining a golf club in Tokyo.....& many just to live a lot cheaper & warmer, take 3 months brake that turns into a year.. etc...etc

They put the same arguments up when the Oz government started closing some of the scam schools down ......we do nothing but put money into your country---well the country will really go down now if you throw us out.

The Australian Government just pointed out that it was keeping to the letter of the law, & people scamming on the different visa's just made it more difficult for the ones who weren't.

I am a little amazed---& glad-- that Thailand has an open door policy for all people over 50 (with the correct funds) because so many of them that I know are not medically insured , & could never get a company to take them either. Maybe that's what they will look at next.

[MrWorldwide]

It's like deja vu all over again

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738160-the-options-for-under-50s-who-dont-want-to-work-in-thailand/

We can thrash this one to death, but the options are there. Little enthusiasm for actually attending classes or buying an elite card and even less for Cambo - so be it

[JLCrab]

Per Post #19 ... because so many of them that I know are not medically insured Of course they are insured. They are self-insured. That's a whole lot better than giving your money to some lyin', schemin' insurer who will take your money and then deny your every claim for no good reason. (just read the ThaiVisa Insurance Topic)

[JDGRUEN]

It is my understand that under a treaty with the U.S. Americans are allow to form a company without the normal requirement of hiring a minimum of Thai employees. Also that this treaty is supposed to run out next year. This would on the surface make it more feasible for Americans to form an on line business..

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Or please clarify any other critical points of that privilege ...

[JLCrab]

It is my understand that under a treaty with the U.S. Americans are allow to form a company without the normal requirement of hiring a minimum of Thai employees. Also that this treaty is supposed to run out next year. This would on the surface make it more feasible for Americans to form an on line business..

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Or please clarify any other critical points of that privilege ...

This is from a recent 'Ask the Lawyer'query:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733721-us-thailand-treaty-of-amity

[JDGRUEN]

It is my understand that under a treaty with the U.S. Americans are allow to form a company without the normal requirement of hiring a minimum of Thai employees. Also that this treaty is supposed to run out next year. This would on the surface make it more feasible for Americans to form an on line business..

Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Or please clarify any other critical points of that privilege ...

This is from a recent 'Ask the Lawyer'query:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/733721-us-thailand-treaty-of-amity

Thank you for finding this for me. It is good and bad - not having to have the large amount of cash is great and the LLC like structure is good too but the Thai employee requirement sorta kills the deal (on the surface) ... I have read of schemes about skirting this requirement - but not for discussion here. I have a Non Imm Multi 'O' and can qualify for an Extension of Stay based on Retirement... but I wish to form a business that involves hiring Thais but in an indirect manner - not actually hiring but having a franchise arrangement to market a line of food products. Having to have four Thai employees would muck that up a bit with unnecessary payroll overhead.

Further question: If one starts a business - whether American or not - does this require changing the Visa to Category B? I suppose it does.

Edited July 9, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[SiggiCM]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

so when i am in my house and i make a business plan for a project outside Thailand then I have to make a limited company first?

when i write a novel or a book, and somebody pays me money for it in Europe, then is not legal until i build a limited company?

and who has this elite card? I guess nobody? only spreading rumors here, this card not exist,!!!

there is nothing in Thai immigration law about this,

You realy think you pay 500000 Baht and you get Visa for 5 years and you not have to show any finacial background, but people who have thai relatives must show 400000 baht every year or income 40000 baht/month, this would violate all the Immigration laws and Constitution in Thailand

[SiggiCM]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

That's fine if that's the case. 500,000 baht up front for 5 years of the elite card works out to a somewhat reasonable amount like you mentioned but having to pay 5 years in advance is quite the commitment when that money could be put to other uses.

If the official stance is everyone must either start a company or get the elite card then like I said that's fine if they feel that is the best course of action. But the rhetoric over the years and what they say publically now doesn't make it sound like they don't want the average person making a decent wage working for themselves or a foreign company online, it sounds like they don't want people taking reserved jobs for Thais.

As nice as Thailand is 2 million baht reserved capital and 4 salaried Thais doing what would amount to nothing but being names on an application is a pretty steep price to pay for someone who can just go and live in another country. I just don't think that is their intention with these changes, but I could be wrong of course and like you said they want everyone to start a company.

Paying tax would not be a problem and having a way to pay tax and get a legitimate visa would be nice. If they wanted to set a limit of 100,000 baht contributed via taxes that would fine too. Anything would be better than the current gap in the visa system for the large amount of tourists and long term stayers who make a living via the internet(it's just going to be a larger and larger number as time goes on as well).

I am in the same situation and you and no, there is no way to stay as a under 50, working online without being married, father a child or open a company.

by your logic you have to open a company, be married or have a child here not helps you

Who ever got problem by working online for company outside thailand?

name one, who knows one?

NOBODY!!!

How somebody in thailand can show you that you are working with your pc`?

they can show only if the customer say yes this person made this for me, here is the invoice, this is my payment, and then where is the prove that you when you made this been in thailand and not soemwhere else, nobody cares about people work for companys outside thailand, you can teach online by skype to others outside thailand,

nobdy cares, if you do this in Thailand they care

[SiggiCM]

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment.

You mean, start a company with your money that is all your, but that for the majority is legally owned by others.

you can not start a company because there is no market with thai investors, if you open a company you have to pay 2000000 baht but yu own only 980000 baht so you loose the day you open a company already more than 1 Million, then you hae to put 2 thais as partner, who can take over your busness anytime by 51%

there are no thai who ever bring in any money from their pocket into a business with a foreigner, limited companys are only a scam in thailand

[Emster23]

So much for Thailand being such a business friendly place. You can work anywhere, right? Go to a more reasonable country is my advice.

[dtaanic]

There are lots of people who work online and choose Thailand as their base of operations. Now that immigration seems to be against people staying longer than a few months, is it even possible for a freelancer to live in Thailand now?

In Chiang Mai a couple of years ago they had an event at the hotel run by immigration where the commanding officer was asked about people who work online but their work has no connection to Thailand whatsoever, and his answer was it was fine to work online as long as you're not doing any sort of work that deals with Thailand.

So at this point what are the options for someone who has been living here for years already and has built a life here?

I'm going to go get another tourist visa in Cambodia and hopefully that will be alright for the short term. But after that what is there? ED visa?

Their intention is to stop people working illegally in Thailand in jobs such as tour guides and such where Thais could potentially have a job, but in this case it's individuals supporting themselves in a situation that only adds money to the Thai economy and does not take away any jobs at all.

Are they just going to start telling me 'no you can't come back' since I've been living here a long time already?

There are lots and lots of people just like me who aren't doing anything wrong and contribute to the Thai economy by living here. It doesn't sound like we're not welcome, but we're being painted with the same brush as others and it's going to affect a very large amount of people.

I don't see the problem. Start a company, pay tax and social security for you and 4 Thais and get a work permit and extension of stay based on employment. Then you contribute more than buying subsidized rice, eating subsidized food, fueling your car/motorbike with subsidized fuel and using subsidized electricity.

Yes I know that 80% of Thai people also don't pay much tax, but it is their country. Thailand expects foreigners to contribute at least 100,000 baht annually in order to be welcome. Be that via taxes or a PE elite visa they don't care.

I am quite in the same situation as the OP, had in 3 years a company, paid taxes and social security for 4 Thais, but didn’t pay them salary as i didn’t need them around the clock in office and i usually hired different skilled thai people on project basis.

A control visit from the social security forced me to close the company as i was not in office the day of control and no staff was there.

My Lawyer suggested me to open a new company with staff there in the opening hours, but i choose to wait and look at other options. I simply don’t need 4 full time people working for me. And they must work on the registered office premises, not a thing that is valuable for my business.

As far i understand it is the only legal way to have a business and work in thailand?

What if you have an expertise and are consulting?

[Balance]

I believe that the "elite" 5 year visa is still available for TB 20,000. No runs, no 90 report, just the money every five years.