Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[Arkady]

I applied for PR in 2007 with the assistance of our local company lawyer who handles all our visa applications, renewals etc.

They called yesterday to say that my PR would be approved within the next month (or two) and I should prepare the fee and tabien baan.

To be clear, the fee is the official fee. There's no 'additional fee' or agency / broker fee.

I hope others who have been waiting all these years are receiving similar good news. Perhaps the new administration has decided to clear the backlog.

For anyone offered a chance to get one of a small quota of PR approvals for an additional fee, I'd suggest you wait a little longer and see if the backlog is indeed being cleared.

I'm not popping any champagne corks yet until I see the approval letter but it's the first positive news I've heard since I submitted my application.

Anyone else?

I hope that congratulations will be in order.

[JayB]

I applied for PR in 2007 with the assistance of our local company lawyer who handles all our visa applications, renewals etc.

They called yesterday to say that my PR would be approved within the next month (or two) and I should prepare the fee and tabien baan.

To be clear, the fee is the official fee. There's no 'additional fee' or agency / broker fee.

I hope others who have been waiting all these years are receiving similar good news. Perhaps the new administration has decided to clear the backlog.

For anyone offered a chance to get one of a small quota of PR approvals for an additional fee, I'd suggest you wait a little longer and see if the backlog is indeed being cleared.

I'm not popping any champagne corks yet until I see the approval letter but it's the first positive news I've heard since I submitted my application.

Anyone else?

I hope that congratulations will be in order.

Thanks but as I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Hopefully others are getting the same indications and we see the long wait come to an end

[Arkady]

It seems the process of issuing PR is not completely frozen as i had been given to understand, ever since i completed my application process a few years ago. A person known to me got his PR last week. His initial application process was done in 2007 through a broker and he had paid about 150k Baht (fee was for guiding him in completing and submitting all documentation correctly and not for getting a PR). He was contacted by the same broker now informing him that there was a small quota of 3-4 available for an additional payment of 200k which he paid and got the PR on the 1st of September 2011.

Interesting but did he get an official receipt for the additional payment of 200k from Immigration or just pay it to the broker? If the latter, it would be impossible to tell whether the additional fee was imposed solely by the broker, by Immigration unofficially or by Immigration in cahoots with the broker.

There is no basis in the Immigration Act for any quotas other than the 100 per nationality per year or for any fees part from those prescribed in the Act. Immigration may not be 100% squeaky clean but they are unlikely to try on something like this that would be instantly discussed amongst whinging foreigners who might file complaint, subjecting the staff to high risk of losing very soft jobs and worse. By logical deduction, this was most likely a clever scam thought up by the broker acting alone to earn an extra 200k for doing nothing.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Arkady

[aaoaahq]

I applied for PR in 2007 with the assistance of our local company lawyer who handles all our visa applications, renewals etc.

They called yesterday to say that my PR would be approved within the next month (or two) and I should prepare the fee and tabien baan.

To be clear, the fee is the official fee. There's no 'additional fee' or agency / broker fee.

I hope others who have been waiting all these years are receiving similar good news. Perhaps the new administration has decided to clear the backlog.

For anyone offered a chance to get one of a small quota of PR approvals for an additional fee, I'd suggest you wait a little longer and see if the backlog is indeed being cleared.

I'm not popping any champagne corks yet until I see the approval letter but it's the first positive news I've heard since I submitted my application.

Anyone else?

I hope that congratulations will be in order.

Thanks but as I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Hopefully others are getting the same indications and we see the long wait come to an end

I received my PR letter from immigration last week and have been rushing around getting the resident permit, alien registration document and trying to get put on the blue 'tabien baan". The latter being the most hassle as they initially refused to register me as they said I was not a Thai national. Anyway, after some firm but polite direction, they are now proceeding and hopefully tomorrow I will have finished the process. I did not pay anything other than the normal fees for the residence permit and alien registration document, but then I did the application by myself so there wasn't any law firm/broker involved.

Unfortunately, it looks like I am going to be rotated out of Thailand in the coming months, so won't be able to use the PR to its full potential. However, it will be there for a rainy day as long as I return to Thailand each year.

The best of luck to all of you who are still waiting. It seems the logjam has been freed and your letter will be coming soon too!

Edited September 8, 2011 by aaoaahq

[KamnanT]

The best of luck to all of you who are still waiting. It seems the logjam has been freed and your letter will be coming soon too!

Interesting. May I ask in which year you applied?

[aaoaahq]

The best of luck to all of you who are still waiting. It seems the logjam has been freed and your letter will be coming soon too!

Interesting. May I ask in which year you applied?

I applied in 2006, but due to being short of 1 day on my full 3 year extensions (4th year extension landed on a Saturday and I applied on the Friday) I had to reapply in December 2007. They let me know that I was short of 1 day, 6 months after my application had been accepted.

Edited September 8, 2011 by aaoaahq

[tombkk]

I am curious to know why he would have paid that much since there seems little benefit in PR besides actually forgoing annual extension of stays

Perhaps for one of my top two reasons:

1) PR can act as a residency insurance against certains aspects of life (temporarily losing your job, be unable to work, face money issues, get heavily sick...). Although it will never happen for the majority of PR holders, it enables you to remain in Thailand to tackle the issues without additional pressure to have to leave the country.

2) The psychological aspect, for which PR is an acknowledgment you are living in Thailand. As I mentionned in some past post, I've been here for more than 10 years (Thai spouse and kids, paying taxes, same address and so forth) but I still have to fill my 90-day reports every 3 months. On top of this, If I ever lose my job tomorrow, I'm supposed to take a plane for anywhere else and consider a rather complicate family visa to be back -which BTW gets void by the time you get in trouble with your spouse or if she dies before you-.

3) You can buy a condo and get a mortgage from a local bank. No need to bring in the total amount from overseas at time of purchase.

[skippybangkok]

I applied for PR in 2007 with the assistance of our local company lawyer who handles all our visa applications, renewals etc.

They called yesterday to say that my PR would be approved within the next month (or two) and I should prepare the fee and tabien baan.

To be clear, the fee is the official fee. There's no 'additional fee' or agency / broker fee.

I hope others who have been waiting all these years are receiving similar good news. Perhaps the new administration has decided to clear the backlog.

For anyone offered a chance to get one of a small quota of PR approvals for an additional fee, I'd suggest you wait a little longer and see if the backlog is indeed being cleared.

I'm not popping any champagne corks yet until I see the approval letter but it's the first positive news I've heard since I submitted my application.

Anyone else?

I hope that congratulations will be in order.

Thanks but as I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Hopefully others are getting the same indications and we see the long wait come to an end

I received my PR letter from immigration last week and have been rushing around getting the resident permit, alien registration document and trying to get put on the blue 'tabien baan". The latter being the most hassle as they initially refused to register me as they said I was not a Thai national. Anyway, after some firm but polite direction, they are now proceeding and hopefully tomorrow I will have finished the process. I did not pay anything other than the normal fees for the residence permit and alien registration document, but then I did the application by myself so there wasn't any law firm/broker involved.

Unfortunately, it looks like I am going to be rotated out of Thailand in the coming months, so won't be able to use the PR to its full potential. However, it will be there for a rainy day as long as I return to Thailand each year.

The best of luck to all of you who are still waiting. It seems the logjam has been freed and your letter will be coming soon too!

Congrats - it seems teh Yingluk govt is more foreigner friendly than Abhisit..

[jayboy]

It seems the process of issuing PR is not completely frozen as i had been given to understand, ever since i completed my application process a few years ago. A person known to me got his PR last week. His initial application process was done in 2007 through a broker and he had paid about 150k Baht (fee was for guiding him in completing and submitting all documentation correctly and not for getting a PR). He was contacted by the same broker now informing him that there was a small quota of 3-4 available for an additional payment of 200k which he paid and got the PR on the 1st of September 2011.

Interesting but did he get an official receipt for the additional payment of 200k from Immigration or just pay it to the broker? If the latter, it would be impossible to tell whether the additional fee was imposed solely by the broker, by Immigration unofficially or by Immigration in cahoots with the broker.

There is no basis in the Immigration Act for any quotas other than the 100 per nationality per year or for any fees part from those prescribed in the Act. Immigration may not be 100% squeaky clean but they are unlikely to try on something like this that would be instantly discussed amongst whinging foreigners who might file complaint, subjecting the staff to high risk of losing very soft jobs and worse. By logical deduction, this was most likely a clever scam thought up by the broker acting alone to earn an extra 200k for doing nothing.

I have to say that's my view also.I have never heard of or come across an instance of this kind of behaviour in connnection with PR,and have always thought this reflected extremely well on Immigration Department.I'm not doubting saakura's post but I am very sceptical that Immigration officials have anything to do with it.My cynical guess (mirrors your thought), given other evidence available, is that PR approvals are beginning to trickle through and the "broker" saw an opportunity.There is an important point here namely that nothing on this forum should give the impression, unless a lot more convincing proof is available, that this kind of scam exists because it wrongly implies illegal behaviour on the part decent honest Thai civil servants.

[MikeyIdea]

Congrats - it seems teh Yingluk govt is more foreigner friendly than Abhisit..

The outgoing Interior Minister signing before he left is more likely actually - period before being replaced = less to do, new guy new position = very much to do, OK?

Signing PR applications for foreigners is very low down on the priority list. Unfortunately

Edited September 9, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[aidenai]

I received my PR letter from immigration last week and have been rushing around getting the resident permit, alien registration document and trying to get put on the blue 'tabien baan".

Great news. Congratulations.

[skyaslimit]

Congrats - it seems teh Yingluk govt is more foreigner friendly than Abhisit..

The outgoing Interior Minister signing before he left is more likely actually - period before being replaced = less to do, new guy new position = very much to do, OK?

Signing PR applications for foreigners is very low down on the priority list. Unfortunately

I was at immigration this morning around 11:00 a.m for my 6 month extension and the officer told me that we may get approvals within 2-3 months because the new minister has already taken the charge of his ministry, tell me where they dispatched your approval letter your work address or home?

[Arkady]

Congrats - it seems teh Yingluk govt is more foreigner friendly than Abhisit..

It will be heart warming news, if the creaking sound we are beginning to hear upstream means the log jam really is being removed. Perhaps too much to hope for but it would be nice, if they could clear the entire backlog and open for applications again this year.

It could be that the outgoing minister signed a bunch before leaving the job and they are just starting to trickle through but it seems unlikely, as he had plenty of time to do sign in over two years and it is now some time since he left office. In my case, the outgoing caretaker minister (Banharn) signed my approval and it came through before he even left office. So more likely it is Yongyuth signing. Would this mean the Yingluck government is more foreigner friendly? Well, possibly, or maybe ministers have been told to create a good impression by improving efficiency at their ministries rather than favour foreigners.

Abhisit gave up the Interior Ministry to Newin's Bhum Jai Thai Party which seemed mainly concerned with maximising short term cash flows from of each of its ministries. One can imagine the BJT cadres assigned to the Ministry puzzling for hours over to how they could squeeze cash out of PR applicants for their boss but never quite managing to come up with a solution due to the number of different government agencies sitting on the Committee for Permanent Residence and leaving it in the too hard basket with disgust. Selling things like PR or citizenship is also the sort of thing that has potential to rouse the ire of the nationalists, if found out, and is best left alone. Anyway for whatever reasons, Abhisit did fail to make a difference for foreigners living, working and investing in Thailand, despite his own British nationality. The Commerce Ministry which could have done something about the Foreign Business Act was also given away to the same party and nothing was done about the ludicrous restrictions to be imposed on foreign telecoms and media investors, far worse than the FBA, under the NBTC.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Arkady

[skyaslimit]

The best of luck to all of you who are still waiting. It seems the logjam has been freed and your letter will be coming soon too!

Interesting. May I ask in which year you applied?

I applied in 2006, but due to being short of 1 day on my full 3 year extensions (4th year extension landed on a Saturday and I applied on the Friday) I had to reapply in December 2007. They let me know that I was short of 1 day, 6 months after my application had been accepted.

Where they dispatched your approval letter?

[skyaslimit]

I am very curious to know where they normally dispatch the approval letter? work address or home? any one?

[aaoaahq]

Congrats - it seems teh Yingluk govt is more foreigner friendly than Abhisit..

The outgoing Interior Minister signing before he left is more likely actually - period before being replaced = less to do, new guy new position = very much to do, OK?

Signing PR applications for foreigners is very low down on the priority list. Unfortunately

I was at immigration this morning around 11:00 a.m for my 6 month extension and the officer told me that we may get approvals within 2-3 months because the new minister has already taken the charge of his ministry, tell me where they dispatched your approval letter your work address or home?

Many thanks to skippybangkok and aidenai for the congratulations! It has been a long haul and I expect that other approvals will be coming soon.

In answer to skyaslimit, immigration sent the approval letter to both my work and home addresses.

One thing that might need to be amended in Camerata's excellent guide to PR, is that when you request to be put on the blue tabien baan you take a letter from the district office back to the police station where you received your alien registration document and not to immigration. The police office will then issue you another letter to take back to the district office. By far the most time consuming part of finalizing the procedure since receiving my approval letter has been the district office. It takes about 3 visits to get put on the blue tabien baan. At least that has been my experience.

The best of luck to everyone else!

[Time Traveller]

It could be that the outgoing minister signed a bunch before leaving the job and they are just starting to trickle through but it seems unlikely, as he had plenty of time to do sign in over two years and it is now some time since he left office. In my case, the outgoing caretaker minister (Banharn) signed my approval and it came through before he even left office. So more likely it is Yongyuth signing. Would this mean the Yingluck government is more foreigner friendly? Well, possibly, or maybe ministers have been told to create a good impression by improving efficiency at their ministries rather than favour foreigners.

Perhaps they have realised it's a source of easy revenue. Approving the PR’s brings in at least 100k per applicant. I'm sure there's some merit in lower standards/more flexibility (as opposed to any increase in fees) to encourage higher numbers of applicants (= higher revenue).

For example, 2000 applicants per year (instead of around 130) would hardly result in unwelcome social tensions (amid 15million foreign visitors already), but would be an easy way for the government to earn 200million baht and increase skilled workers. It's in their business management get-things-done style compared with the democrats do nothing style of politics, that might offer changes for the better.

Abhisit gave up the Interior Ministry to Newin's Bhum Jai Thai Party which seemed mainly concerned with maximising short term cash flows from of each of its ministries. One can imagine the BJT cadres assigned to the Ministry puzzling for hours over to how they could squeeze cash out of PR applicants for their boss but never quite managing to come up with a solution due to the number of different government agencies sitting on the Committee for Permanent Residence and leaving it in the too hard basket with disgust. Selling things like PR or citizenship is also the sort of thing that has potential to rouse the ire of the nationalists, if found out, and is best left alone. Anyway for whatever reasons, Abhisit did fail to make a difference for foreigners living, working and investing in Thailand, despite his own British nationality. The Commerce Ministry which could have done something about the Foreign Business Act was also given away to the same party and nothing was done about the ludicrous restrictions to be imposed on foreign telecoms and media investors, far worse than the FBA, under the NBTC.

I don't think anyone could accuse them of selling PR/citizenship. Every applicant must meet strict criteria showing some link to Thailand, and all get investigated quite extensively before they grant any. If there was case where a rouge official is selling PR or citizenships, then that has nothing to do with the government official immigration policy.

[Arkady]

Abhisit gave up the Interior Ministry to Newin's Bhum Jai Thai Party which seemed mainly concerned with maximising short term cash flows from of each of its ministries. One can imagine the BJT cadres assigned to the Ministry puzzling for hours over to how they could squeeze cash out of PR applicants for their boss but never quite managing to come up with a solution due to the number of different government agencies sitting on the Committee for Permanent Residence and leaving it in the too hard basket with disgust. Selling things like PR or citizenship is also the sort of thing that has potential to rouse the ire of the nationalists, if found out, and is best left alone. Anyway for whatever reasons, Abhisit did fail to make a difference for foreigners living, working and investing in Thailand, despite his own British nationality. The Commerce Ministry which could have done something about the Foreign Business Act was also given away to the same party and nothing was done about the ludicrous restrictions to be imposed on foreign telecoms and media investors, far worse than the FBA, under the NBTC.

I don't think anyone could accuse them of selling PR/citizenship. Every applicant must meet strict criteria showing some link to Thailand, and all get investigated quite extensively before they grant any. If there was case where a rouge official is selling PR or citizenships, then that has nothing to do with the government official immigration policy.

I didn't accuse the last governement of selling PR/citizenship. However, the last party in charge of the Interior Ministry would probably have sold anything it thought it could have got away with but, as I said, PR was probably too difficult. In any event they apparently refused to sign any PR approvals with the clear implication that they didn't profit from the process. According to some Thai-Chinese friends, paying tea money for citizenship was routine and fairly costly when some of their male relatives went through the process a generation or more ago, even though they were well qualified.

[thaiowl]

Since applying for PR in December 2007, I have bought a condo in Hua Hin whilst keeping my primary property in Nonthaburi. I would like to get put on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin condo when my PR comes through. Will I have any problems registering with Hua Hin police and putting my name on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin property even though my original PR application was from my Nonthaburi address?

[Arkady]

Since applying for PR in December 2007, I have bought a condo in Hua Hin whilst keeping my primary property in Nonthaburi. I would like to get put on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin condo when my PR comes through. Will I have any problems registering with Hua Hin police and putting my name on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin property even though my original PR application was from my Nonthaburi address?

You can get on a tabien baan anywhere you like where you are either the owner of a condo or where the owner of your house or apartment is willing to sign the paperwork for you be on the tabien baan. One thing I am not sure about is whether you have to apply for a work permit in the location of your tabien baan or where you work but there is now a work permit office in Hua Hin anyway. Similarly, you can register for an alien book in the local police station of wherever you are on a tabien baan and will have go there for the endorsements which are only every five years. Remember that you need to get your Residence Certificate from Immigration within 30 days' of PR approval under the Immigration Act and that Immigration will probably need to reconfirm evidence of your address for this. Immigration will then send your details to the police station that covers this address to issue your Alien Book which also has to be done without delay. So you will end doing all of this twice, if you haven't already got a yellow tabien baan in Hua Hin when you PR comes through.

If you intend to apply for citizenship in future, bear in mind that having a Hua Hin tabien baan would involve applying to the Special Branch provincial HQ in Prachuab Khiri Khan. Some provincial Special Branch offices can't be bothered with this process and just refuse, pretending that it is not their responsibility. I would think Nonthaburi would be a better bet for this, as they have quite a few applications and should understand how it works. Bangkok is best as they have a Special Branch department, dedicated purely to nationality applications.

Personally I would get the tabien baan in Nonthaburi in your situation, if possible, as you may never know what unanticipated event will have you scuttling off on a paper trail to Hua Hin or Prachuab at short notice, unless of course you plan to make Hua Hin your primary residence in the near future. There is no need to wait, as you can get a yellow tabien baan before you get PR, if you haven't already done so.

For Brits District Offices no longer issue tabien baans with the nationality of "Angrit", as in the past. They now have computer code for each country and nationality and have finally caught up with the news of the union of English and Scottish crowns. I think Immigration, the police and the Labour Ministry are still lingering in the 17th century and may record the nationality of Brits as "Angrit", much to the disgust of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, unless asked to do otherwise. This can cause problems if you are "Angrit" in your other Thai documents and you might be forced to go around changing them one by one so as to have the same nationality in all. So for any Brits in this situation I would advise them to ask Immigration to inscribe their nationality as British in their Residence Book on day one and the police will take it from there for the Alien Book. Changing it later takes months and many visits and phone calls to Immigration and the police station which both seem to suffer from amnesia when dealing with such enquiries. It is also advisable to bring documentary evidence of your parents' nationality when applying for your blue tabien baan. There is a space for this information and the district office will enter "nationality unspecified" if no evidence is provided and that can cause you to be looked on potentially stateless at some time in the future, as happened to me. The evidence required is a declaration made at your consulate of your parents' details and that they are or were British citizens by either birth (in the UK), descent (from a British citizen) or naturalization. Consulates will ask for documentary evidence but the British will probably take your word for it, if you haven't got any and don't look obviously like a sex tourist or have too many hideous tatoos etc. Then this document needs to be translated by a certified translator and taken to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to have pretty coloured stamps plastered on it to notarise the vice-consul's signature and certify the translation as correct which doesn't necessarily mean that it is free of glaring errors.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Arkady

[thaiowl]

Since applying for PR in December 2007, I have bought a condo in Hua Hin whilst keeping my primary property in Nonthaburi. I would like to get put on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin condo when my PR comes through. Will I have any problems registering with Hua Hin police and putting my name on the tabien baan of my Hua Hin property even though my original PR application was from my Nonthaburi address?

You can get on a tabien baan anywhere you like where you are either the owner of a condo or where the owner of your house or apartment is willing to sign the paperwork for you be on the tabien baan. One thing I am not sure about is whether you have to apply for a work permit in the location of your tabien baan or where you work but there is now a work permit office in Hua Hin anyway. Similarly, you can register for an alien book in the local police station of wherever you are on a tabien baan and will have go there for the endorsements which are only every five years. Remember that you need to get your Residence Certificate from Immigration within 30 days' of PR approval under the Immigration Act and that Immigration will probably need to reconfirm evidence of your address for this. Immigration will then send your details to the police station that covers this address to issue your Alien Book which also has to be done without delay. So you will end doing all of this twice, if you haven't already got a yellow tabien baan in Hua Hin when you PR comes through.

If you intend to apply for citizenship in future, bear in mind that having a Hua Hin tabien baan would involve applying to the Special Branch provincial HQ in Prachuab Khiri Khan. Some provincial Special Branch offices can't be bothered with this process and just refuse, pretending that it is not their responsibility. I would think Nonthaburi would be a better bet for this, as they have quite a few applications and should understand how it works. Bangkok is best as they have a Special Branch department, dedicated purely to nationality applications.

Personally I would get the tabien baan in Nonthaburi in your situation, if possible, as you may never know what unanticipated event will have you scuttling off on a paper trail to Hua Hin or Prachuab at short notice, unless of course you plan to make Hua Hin your primary residence in the near future. There is no need to wait, as you can get a yellow tabien baan before you get PR, if you haven't already done so.

For Brits District Offices no longer issue tabien baans with the nationality of "Angrit", as in the past. They now have computer code for each country and nationality and have finally caught up with the news of the union of English and Scottish crowns. I think Immigration, the police and the Labour Ministry are still lingering in the 17th century and may record the nationality of Brits as "Angrit", much to the disgust of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, unless asked to do otherwise. This can cause problems if you are "Angrit" in your other Thai documents and you might be forced to go around changing them one by one so as to have the same nationality in all. So for any Brits in this situation I would advise them to ask Immigration to inscribe their nationality as British in their Residence Book on day one and the police will take it from there for the Alien Book. Changing it later takes months and many visits and phone calls to Immigration and the police station which both seem to suffer from amnesia when dealing with such enquiries. It is also advisable to bring documentary evidence of your parents' nationality when applying for your blue tabien baan. There is a space for this information and the district office will enter "nationality unspecified" if no evidence is provided and that can cause you to be looked on potentially stateless at some time in the future, as happened to me. The evidence required is a declaration made at your consulate of your parents' details and that they are or were British citizens by either birth (in the UK), descent (from a British citizen) or naturalization. Consulates will ask for documentary evidence but the British will probably take your word for it, if you haven't got any and don't look obviously like a sex tourist or have too many hideous tatoos etc. Then this document needs to be translated by a certified translator and taken to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to have pretty coloured stamps plastered on it to notarise the vice-consul's signature and certify the translation as correct which doesn't necessarily mean that it is free of glaring errors.

Thanks for your detailed reply. Work permit depends on where you work and my registered office is at my residence in Nonthaburi so I presume I’ll be OK on the work permit front.

When I bought the condo, I was given a blue tabien baan by the sellers so I presume I just ask the District Office in Hua Hin to put my name on that tabien baan.

I don’t intend to apply for citizenship.

I would prefer to be put on the tabien baan of my Nonthaburi residence but my wife doesn’t want any foreign names attracting attention. She didn’t even put our kids (Thai/UK citizens) on it because they have my surname.

I think I’ll try to stay with “Angrit” as my nationality. I will also get my parents’ nationality confirmed by the British Embassy and translated and then notarized by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[GarryP]

You will not be able to stay with Angrit in your tabien baan. You will either be British or nothing. In any case, when you obtain certified translations from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the acceptable translation of British is the Thai phonetic equivalent, not "Angrit in Thai". If your translation is submitted using the latter, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs will return the documents uncertified, pending correction to "British (Thai version)". This is all assuming you will follow Arkady's suggestion of having your parents nationality listed against your name.

[jayboy]

For Brits District Offices no longer issue tabien baans with the nationality of "Angrit", as in the past. They now have computer code for each country and nationality and have finally caught up with the news of the union of English and Scottish crowns. I think Immigration, the police and the Labour Ministry are still lingering in the 17th century and may record the nationality of Brits as "Angrit", much to the disgust of Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish, unless asked to do otherwise. This can cause problems if you are "Angrit" in your other Thai documents and you might be forced to go around changing them one by one so as to have the same nationality in all. So for any Brits in this situation I would advise them to ask Immigration to inscribe their nationality as British in their Residence Book on day one and the police will take it from there for the Alien Book. Changing it later takes months and many visits and phone calls to Immigration and the police station which both seem to suffer from amnesia when dealing with such enquiries. It is also advisable to bring documentary evidence of your parents' nationality when applying for your blue tabien baan. There is a space for this information and the district office will enter "nationality unspecified" if no evidence is provided and that can cause you to be looked on potentially stateless at some time in the future, as happened to me. The evidence required is a declaration made at your consulate of your parents' details and that they are or were British citizens by either birth (in the UK), descent (from a British citizen) or naturalization. Consulates will ask for documentary evidence but the British will probably take your word for it, if you haven't got any and don't look obviously like a sex tourist or have too many hideous tatoos etc. Then this document needs to be translated by a certified translator and taken to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to have pretty coloured stamps plastered on it to notarise the vice-consul's signature and certify the translation as correct which doesn't necessarily mean that it is free of glaring errors.

I wonder whether for existing British PR holders there is a need to do anything at all even if nationality is wrongly recorded as "Angrit" in the various books.I'm sure one would be encouraged to do so but there is presumably no penalty for not doing so.One would not be refused entry into the country for example.Perhaps it might become an issue if one was entering into a legal contract.But in the ordinary course of life it wouldn't be a big issue would it, other than an occasional disapproving look? To run around changing the details seems like a lot of work in the face of a fairly silly piece of bureaucracy , particularly since the initial mistake such as it is was made by the Thai authorities not the individual concerned Or have I got it wrong?

[GarryP]

I don't think you have got it wrong Jayboy. It does seem petty and ridiculous that different gov't agencies are not on the same page. You would not be penalized. However, if down the road you decide to apply for citizenship, it does become an issue and you must get the correct nationality listed in the requisite documents, namely, house registration, otherwise your application will not be accepted. So I would say it is best to get things right from the begining just in case.

Apart from applying for citizenship, I don't know whether it is needed for anything else, but why risk it. It could be quite time consuming and expensive getting it corrected.

[Siamfan]

Yesterday I was in Bangkok Immigration to get my 6 months stamp ( I applied in 2007) No problem at all, took 5 min.

Then I tried to find out some more information about the recent developments- but nothing . They did not say anything... Just the usual: all documents are in Rajamontri, ( Interior Ministery) and are waiting for the signature... We should be patient....

They said some of 2006 ( about 50 )were already signed, some ( about 20 )of 2007 and only 1 of 2008 Those who had good relations to interior ministery...

Thats it. Nothing about that they are signing more now...

Only one good point: They think they are going to open this year again in december for new applicants.

Cheers Guys, and good luck to all of us!

[Arkady]

I don't think you have got it wrong Jayboy. It does seem petty and ridiculous that different gov't agencies are not on the same page. You would not be penalized. However, if down the road you decide to apply for citizenship, it does become an issue and you must get the correct nationality listed in the requisite documents, namely, house registration, otherwise your application will not be accepted. So I would say it is best to get things right from the begining just in case.

Apart from applying for citizenship, I don't know whether it is needed for anything else, but why risk it. It could be quite time consuming and expensive getting it corrected.

For the time being I think Garry is right and this problem may only affect British applicants for citizenship but, if you have the chance to avoid being listed as 'Angrit' in any of your Thai docs that are being newly issued, I would do so. District offices reacted to a circular letter from the MoFA about the correct Thai terminology for British and UK at the time they fully computerised and chopped the 'Angrit' classification. Ultimately other government departments will do the same.

[jayboy]

I don't think you have got it wrong Jayboy. It does seem petty and ridiculous that different gov't agencies are not on the same page. You would not be penalized. However, if down the road you decide to apply for citizenship, it does become an issue and you must get the correct nationality listed in the requisite documents, namely, house registration, otherwise your application will not be accepted. So I would say it is best to get things right from the begining just in case.

Apart from applying for citizenship, I don't know whether it is needed for anything else, but why risk it. It could be quite time consuming and expensive getting it corrected.

For the time being I think Garry is right and this problem may only affect British applicants for citizenship but, if you have the chance to avoid being listed as 'Angrit' in any of your Thai docs that are being newly issued, I would do so. District offices reacted to a circular letter from the MoFA about the correct Thai terminology for British and UK at the time they fully computerised and chopped the 'Angrit' classification. Ultimately other government departments will do the same.

Thanks Garry and Arkady for this useful information.

[tombkk]

Yesterday I was in Bangkok Immigration to get my 6 months stamp ( I applied in 2007) No problem at all, took 5 min.

Then I tried to find out some more information about the recent developments- but nothing . They did not say anything... Just the usual: all documents are in Rajamontri, ( Interior Ministery) and are waiting for the signature... We should be patient....

They said some of 2006 ( about 50 )were already signed, some ( about 20 )of 2007 and only 1 of 2008 Those who had good relations to interior ministery...

Thats it. Nothing about that they are signing more now...

Only one good point: They think they are going to open this year again in december for new applicants.

Cheers Guys, and good luck to all of us!

Thanks for this update. I have no relations to the interior ministry but you have raised my hopes that my 2006 application will see the light of the day.

[Arkady]

I recently heard some slightly disturbing news that the Labour Ministry now requires PR holders to have four Thai employees, just like everyone else. I hope this is not true, as it is or used to be a handy privilege for those running their own small companies not to have to produce fake Thai employees, pay their social security tax and show where they sit in the office. Lord knows, we have precious few privileges and having to get a work permit at all after being granted permanent residence is already ridiculous in the extreme. I go into more detail in another thread about the new rules for work permits introduced mid year:

[jayboy]

I recently heard some slightly disturbing news that the Labour Ministry now requires PR holders to have four Thai employees, just like everyone else. I hope this is not true, as it is or used to be a handy privilege for those running their own small companies not to have to produce fake Thai employees, pay their social security tax and show where they sit in the office. Lord knows, we have precious few privileges and having to get a work permit at all after being granted permanent residence is already ridiculous in the extreme. I go into more detail in another thread about the new rules for work permits introduced mid year:

Seems very odd (unless your comments specifically apply to PR holders owning businesses) not least because not all PR are employers.Most of those I know are employees themselves so the question of having Thai employees doesn't arise.