With all of the sectarian violence taking place around the world today, it's hard to imagine a world without strife...

I am an atheist, and the poster talking about brainwashing is absolutely right. No logical person without brain washing would be a follower of religion as there is absolutely no basis for it. No proof nothing... that is why all the religions have something called faith and make sure that everyone understands it.

You can't use logic because if you say there is no proof they will say its all about faith and how god made it this way to test faith.

Anyway I have religious friends and I just don't touch the subject. You can't win only destroy a friendship, its a sad thing people are allowed to be brainwashed by religion. You can teach a child anything you want if you start young enough.

The sad thing is that religious people always want to push their worlds views on others not accepting flexibility. Why would there be alcohol free days in Thailand, if it was about faith people would restrain from it themselves. Why would a Sunday be a free day by law... if that was needed people would find a way to do it themselves and face the consequence if they did. I don't even want to go into the things Muslims are forced.

Religion = oppression of others.

"Religion = oppression of others"

Yes, Yes! For God's sake stop telling me what I can and cannot do (as long as I don't hurt others). I'm not a child.

I do not understand OP

I am a Catholic

Lord Buddha is not considered as the creator of the universe

It means that Buddhism is a religion which is not rejecting or accepting the mono theistic teachings of Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus or Muhammad

I think that true Buddhism does not address the issue of believing in God but rather focuses on the second commandment of Moses i.e. threat your neighbour as you want to be threated yourself etc...

Being married 26 years to a true Buddhist ( no superstition etc..) Thai wife I bless the day that she came into my life and I believe there will be a place in heaven also for her and her 84 year old mother.

They're going to be pretty disappointed when they find out the heaven you have promised does not exist..

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My wife has always been an intelligent lady, but of late she has really honed her logic and critical thinking. She still goes to temple for the high days and funerals, but that's just to please the family. The rest of the family and the majority of the village still practice what their concept of Buddhism is, until they get into their car or are at their shop. The regimentations of the mind by the social constructs are rather difficult to break away from.

I might recommend The Skeptics Annotated Bible for your perusal. I got it free at the App Store.

And yes, pigs can fly

My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

Why does the question have to be "who" created?

Why can't it be what created?

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Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

But I beg to differ that people that believe this nonsense are not smart. I know some brilliant people that swallow it all hook, line and sinker, and I am always amazed. But the answer is simple; these folks have been brainwashed at a young age, and most are simple incapable of throwing out that seed that has been planted so deep. Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." Unfortunately, he's right. And of all the religions, who are more deeply brainwashed that the Muslims, who are forced to pray five times every day?

Only a typically brainwashed American could attribute an epithet such as "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." to a ridiculous right-wing fellow countryman who made a fortune out of religious televangelism whilst deriding Labor Unions, the Anti Apartheid Movement, Gays, and almost every other cause. The phrase most likely originated with St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits.

My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

Why does the question have to be "who" created?

Why can't it be what created?

Human beings created gods. The opposite has yet to be proven!

Never really felt like atheism was the sort of thing where I'd want to meet up- for me it's not a belief in something, it's a lack of belief- like a default setting.

But yes, there are groups that meet up for this sort of thing. Next meeting is Aug 26th.

http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-Skeptics-in-the-Pub/

Yeh, it does seem silly to meet for nothing, unless you have other commonalities. Like here, perhaps you are all farang. Perhaps atheism is only the vehicle and the real driver is the farangness. I mean, at these meetings, does anyone ever even bother to discuss atheism? My bet is no. Would you allow a farang Catholic to join, so long as he was a decent guy who did not discuss his faith?

For some time I was joining a group of farangs fortnightly for cooking, eating, drinking.

Left the group for two reasons. a. too many heavy smokers, b. one guy who was a Jehova's Witnesses missionary.

So, I think, it makes sense to form groups that have a clear profile.

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

But I beg to differ that people that believe this nonsense are not smart. I know some brilliant people that swallow it all hook, line and sinker, and I am always amazed. But the answer is simple; these folks have been brainwashed at a young age, and most are simple incapable of throwing out that seed that has been planted so deep. Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." Unfortunately, he's right. And of all the religions, who are more deeply brainwashed that the Muslims, who are forced to pray five times every day?

I would have thought the virgin conception, rather than birth, might be contentious.

Never really felt like atheism was the sort of thing where I'd want to meet up- for me it's not a belief in something, it's a lack of belief- like a default setting.

But yes, there are groups that meet up for this sort of thing. Next meeting is Aug 26th.

http://www.meetup.com/Bangkok-Skeptics-in-the-Pub/

Do they provide free beer?

I'm atheist but see no need to meet up with other atheists as a group.

Belief is vital for some people so they can function day to day and draw strength and maybe make sense of life. Who am I to argue with that?

The more we stop believing in outside forces.

The more we believe in ourselves.

The more we believe in ourselves, we take responsibility for everything in our lives.

We change and determine our own destiny.

We don't sit around being useless and pray for a miracle to happen.

We take the first step forward with our own foot and be the person we want to be.

I am glad to read that.

I am a pure commie, so Atheism is in my genes.

I just wish Thailand would get rid of those nice suit and tie promoters.

Atheists sometimes ike to meet not to convert anyone because that is not possible, but often more out of a keen interest to stop the dangers of faith-which you have perfectly demonstrated really do exist.

An anti-religion religion of sorts.

Each to their own, but why would you bother?

My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

I love it when a poster really nails it like this. CHECK MATE ATHEISTS!!! 555

millwall.fan:

"""Only a typically brainwashed American could attribute an epithet such as "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." to a ridiculous right-wing fellow countryman who made a fortune out of religious televangelism whilst deriding Labor Unions, the Anti Apartheid Movement, Gays, and almost every other cause. The phrase most likely originated with St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits."""

Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life."

Falwell is right. What he says applies to all Pied Pipers: "Give me total supervision of children (innocent, naive persons) for a while, I will finally have (total) control over their whole life."

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My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

Why does the question have to be "who" created?
Why can't it be what created?

Human beings created gods. The opposite has yet to be proven!

+1

To ggt, how about who cares who created what. How about earth was how it is, and it doesn't matter who create it. But us as humans, are put here just like how the other living things are. We can only accept and understand the things around us. The more we understand, the more science is acquired. We never created anything, everything that should be in this world, is already existed, we humans are still exploring.

Far too many religions and beliefs rely on the useless things and fame.

Atheism to me, is basically the way of thinking and attitude towards life. I don't care, who discovered and created the world and such such such. Religious people tend to have wants outside their capabilities, and the desire to achieve something out of their reach, by praying, that some outside force will suddenly make it happen. Then these go on to devotion of time and money such as donations.

Why I support the idea of atheism is because, it makes people stronger. To not be reliant on some other source. But to improve within oneself, that one's own actions will determine their own future and destiny. By believing in so, your overall person, becomes more powerful and the need to improve yourself to achieve your goals.

As with any beliefs, to each his own. Atheism will not convert other people, because that is the way it is, good things don't require luring people, people will eventually understand, and they will come forward themselves.

I won't pray on a farm wishing for good crops and rain this year and burning some papers, blessing water, etc.

I'll get out there on the field and work on it by building my own water supplies and the "science" to making good crops. I don't play with chances, only simple 1 2 3.

My atheist friends always seem to gravitate to science as the answer to all man's problems...forget religion...it is for dreamers...

Yet...none seem to have an answer when presented the question...what has science ever created...?

Scientists fashion and manipulate resources which are already created...they can create nothing...which begs the question...who did create all substance and matter...?

Secular humanism...no God...humans are the center of the universe...is their answer...REALLY?

I love it when a poster really nails it like this. CHECK MATE ATHEISTS!!! 555

And who has created everything ? What do we know about a creator ? Nothing at all, that's why we create our creators to our liking.

And we are very creative in creating creators, that's why we have created so many of them. How many different ones in Christianity ? How many in Islam ?

Check mate, who ?

To trolls who have no clue a true Scientist (or an Atheist like me) does not disapprove intelligent design.

It is the religious nonsense they disapprove of and rightfully call people who believe in fairy tales mentally challenged.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

I doubt it's impossible. Just very, very rare. Scientists refer to it as "parthenogenesis" and it can be induced in the laboratory fairly readily. The only problem with Jesus being a product of parthenogenesis is that he was male. All parthenogenetic mammals are female, having two X chromosomes.

We are all atheists, for at least 99.9% of gods.

Some of us go one god further.

Hitchens, I think?

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

I doubt it's impossible. Just very, very rare. Scientists refer to it as "parthenogenesis" and it can be induced in the laboratory fairly readily. The only problem with Jesus being a product of parthenogenesis is that he was male. All parthenogenetic mammals are female, having two X chromosomes.

Virgin birth is not impossible, other than by parthenogenesis. He might ejaculate near the entrance to the vagina, & sperm makes its way to the egg; yet she remains a virgin.

Even more likely these days, with all the kinds of artificial assistance available.

It is my understanding that before his death, Buddha specifically told his followers NOT to worship him and NOT to make any statues of him. Apparently that was followed for about 300 years but as Buddhism spread, it was syncretised with local religions and beliefs. As I've mentioned before, the Vietnamese in the 7th century created Pure Land Buddhism at the center of which was worshipping Buddha as a god. The visiting monks from India were tearing their hair out but they could not convince the Vietnamese to relinquish their beliefs in magical spirits and eventually making Buddha the supreme magical spirit.

Early Buddhist art explicitly didn't represent him. For example, in the carvings at Sanchi (3rd century BCE) Buddha is represented by symbols such as an empty chair or a tree.

It is said that the Lord Buddha, when asked, suggested using the stupa as a symbol for memorising him, forming the shape from his possessions, a folded cloth, an inverted begging bowl and a stick he used during preaching.

Pure Land Buddhism is did not arise in Vietnam. It arose in India, then spread first to China and then to Japan. I presume (though don't know) that it entered Vietnam from China for geographical reasons.

Pure Land Buddhists do not worship the historical Buddha. They revere a different one, the Amitābha Buddha. However, they don't ascribe any special powers to him, other than the ability to help them become enlightened.

There are instances of Buddhism co-opting local spirits. The most obvious example is in Burma, where the local spirits known as "nats" have been integrated into the religious beliefs. I'm not aware of this being the situation in Vietnam. Still, I like the images of visiting Indian monks tearing their hair out.

Im an atheist but have no need to advertise the fact , certainly wouldn't choose to socialise with a group purely because they were non religious. Actually I find many vocal atheists rather smug , though on balance I prefer smug to sectarian slaughter !

my atheist group have agreed to meet up in heaven

Well, no that's not true at all. I know plenty of muslims and none of them think or act that way. They're just normal folk- my best mate is a muslim and I'd struggle to name a smarter person I know, able to debate cheerfully and see both sides of the argument.

Dunno, maybe moslims are something different that I've never come across. Moslims who hate jews and catholics but hate intelligent people even more. Like intelligent people who spell good.

I would totally agree that on a whole Muslims are the one's who dislike atheists the most. I spend lot of time in middle-east.

Seems they take it very personally and would rather have a christian or even a Jew.

I would have a lot of trouble calling anyone smart who really believes totally in whatever religion they subscribe too.

Educated maybe-smart , no.

If for example a Muslim/Christian truly and utterly believes in what is written in the Qur'an/bible they cannot be called "smart'.

They have opted,usually because they have been brain washed at young age ( Muslims are very guilty of this) to suspend all forms of rational logic to belief in things we all know is absurdly wrong-and yet they cling to it.

Smart people do not cling like that.

They see the evidence and go where it leads. They do not cling using the weakest/lamest forms of excuses/logic/rational

They get angry quickly because that is all they can do.

As for locals, well, there is no religion here really,its a bare resemblance of what Buddhism is really all about.A philosophy that because a religion to suit the agenda of those who stil use it today to control the masses.

The virgin birth is the one that really throws me. How can anyone believe in that?

But I beg to differ that people that believe this nonsense are not smart. I know some brilliant people that swallow it all hook, line and sinker, and I am always amazed. But the answer is simple; these folks have been brainwashed at a young age, and most are simple incapable of throwing out that seed that has been planted so deep. Jerry Falwell once said, "Give me a child until he's seven years old, and I'll have him for life." Unfortunately, he's right. And of all the religions, who are more deeply brainwashed that the Muslims, who are forced to pray five times every day?

Yes most religions maintain follerwers that were indoctrinated by respected people (mostly parents) at a young age so they continue to believe based on that and that alone as there is no evidence to support religion. Muslims however, have an additional motivator. Their punishment for apostacy is death. That oughta keep attendence up at the mosques.

AA Thailand welcomes believers and non-believers. Google for times and locations.

Many lively conversations take place discussing the existence or non-existence of God, a higher power or whatever name you put on it or not.

Some of my best friends are atheists.

The fundamental difference between different religions and Buddism is that Buddism is not regarded as a religion, it is a philosofy.