Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[AYJAYDEE]

That is absolute rubbish, you obviously have no experience in seeing teachers with or without degrees teaching. There are good and bad on both sides.

Many people didn't have or lacked the opportunity to undergo a degree when they were younger and chose instead to do their learning later in life. I don't see any logic to your argument. Having a degree in a non-education related field makes zero difference to your ability to teach. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't have a degree is some sort of retard.

he didnt say that at all. he said, with no other measure to go by, he would place his bet on the degree over the non degree.

[ericthai]

I agree with you.

I wanted to be an electrical engineer i went to school and got my degree. if you want to teach here and that is the requirement then just do it.

A dive instructor needs to be certified, a car mechanic needs his tools to do his job. I wouldn't want a pilot not to be qualified, governments, companies etc have their requirements if you want to do that job get the qualifications needed to do it. A thai friend of mine wanted to work in the industrial area in Rayong. He went to school and got degree to allow him to work in the industrial arena, not just do construction work.

The problem is that the vast majority of schools in Thailand still pay the same wages they did 10 years ago. Go to Ajarn.com and look at the teaching jobs posted there. Most of them come with a salary that is between 25K baht and 40K. Would you pay to go to university and spend a few years getting a degree only to make 30K per month?

I wouldn't. Teachers with a legit degree can make 3 times that in Japan, South Korea or even the Middle East.

i made less money that i could have made in the USA working here as an engineer. I have a friend from the USA that was making $100K USD per year in the USA, left his job to work here running a Chemical factory for only 90,000B a month with a masters degree. We have choices so it's up to you, get a legit degree as you say and go work somewhere else making more money or accept a lower pay to live here. It's your choice nobody is forcing you to work and stay here.

[Time Traveller]

Well that lasted long didn't it.

Seems like the military are making this up as they go.

[ericthai]

I agree with you.

I wanted to be an electrical engineer i went to school and got my degree. if you want to teach here and that is the requirement then just do it.

A dive instructor needs to be certified, a car mechanic needs his tools to do his job. I wouldn't want a pilot not to be qualified, governments, companies etc have their requirements if you want to do that job get the qualifications needed to do it. A thai friend of mine wanted to work in the industrial area in Rayong. He went to school and got degree to allow him to work in the industrial arena, not just do construction work.

The problem is that the vast majority of schools in Thailand still pay the same wages they did 10 years ago. Go to Ajarn.com and look at the teaching jobs posted there. Most of them come with a salary that is between 25K baht and 40K. Would you pay to go to university and spend a few years getting a degree only to make 30K per month?

I wouldn't. Teachers with a legit degree can make 3 times that in Japan, South Korea or even the Middle East.

i made less money that i could have made in the USA working here as an engineer. I have a friend from the USA that was making $100K USD per year in the USA, left his job to work here running a Chemical factory for only 90,000B a month with a masters degree. We have choices so it's up to you, get a legit degree as you say and go work somewhere else making more money or accept a lower pay to live here. It's your choice nobody is forcing you to work and stay here.

[GoNavy]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Foreign English teachers get mixed messages. The law is the law. Yet, others and even Thai's say 'not to worry.' English teachers are in demand. The government wants their citizens to learn English yet it is an Olympic hoop to get the proper permission.

It seems to me, if the government would relax these hoops, make it easier along with ensuring good teachers it can be done. I know of 2 who went to school 'in Thailand' to teach. They are professionals in other areas so not vagabonds. If the government allows these schools to exist, any graduates should have a shoo-in to work in their schools.

[Hawkman]

That is absolute rubbish, you obviously have no experience in seeing teachers with or without degrees teaching. There are good and bad on both sides.

Many people didn't have or lacked the opportunity to undergo a degree when they were younger and chose instead to do their learning later in life. I don't see any logic to your argument. Having a degree in a non-education related field makes zero difference to your ability to teach. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't have a degree is some sort of retard.

he didnt say that at all. he said, with no other measure to go by, he would place his bet on the degree over the non degree.

Read his last sentence, he sure implied it.

I do agree with him wholeheartedly however, it's hard for them to measure it and I don't know the best solution. It just seems the degree requirement is for weeding out the definite wasters from applying (which is a good thing) but doesn't measure if the person is a good teacher or not. That to me does not and will not improve the teaching available to Thai students.

What's needed is a better solution. Is a four week TEFL the solution? No. Not in my book.

But, take 2 people - 1) a guy in his 30's, no degree but with a four week TEFL/CELTA, four years experience, clean criminal record and being a very good teacher compared with, 2) a 22 year old guy fresh from university with degree in Economics in their hand off to Bangkok, wanting to party, not turn up for classes and do coke and shag the students.

Who would you choose? Now, I' not saying all degree holders are like that - though I've sure met them - my point is it's the teaching ability that's important here, not the degree requirement.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Hawkman

[paz]

2) a 22 year old guy fresh from university with degree in Economics in their hand off to Bangkok, wanting to party, not turn up for classes and do coke and shag the students.

Oh, I see now where you've been have getting to. BTW, can't do drugs, and much less coke, with a teacher's salary.

[AYJAYDEE]

That is absolute rubbish, you obviously have no experience in seeing teachers with or without degrees teaching. There are good and bad on both sides.

Many people didn't have or lacked the opportunity to undergo a degree when they were younger and chose instead to do their learning later in life. I don't see any logic to your argument. Having a degree in a non-education related field makes zero difference to your ability to teach. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't have a degree is some sort of retard.

he didnt say that at all. he said, with no other measure to go by, he would place his bet on the degree over the non degree.

Read his last sentence, he sure implied it.

I do agree with him wholeheartedly however, it's hard for them to measure it and I don't know the best solution. It just seems the degree requirement is for weeding out the definite wasters from applying (which is a good thing) but doesn't measure if the person is a good teacher or not. That to me does not and will not improve the teaching available to Thai students.

What's needed is a better solution. Is a four week TEFL the solution? No. Not in my book.

But, take 2 people - 1) a guy in his 30's, no degree but with a four week TEFL/CELTA, four years experience, clean criminal record and being a very good teacher compared with, 2) a 22 year old guy fresh from university with degree in Economics in their hand off to Bangkok, wanting to party, not turn up for classes and do coke and shag the students.

Who would you choose? Now, I' not saying all degree holders are like that - though I've sure met them - my point is it's the teaching ability that's important here, not the degree requirement.

he implied nothing of the sort: he said:

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

he is making a guess based on ONE bit of information , ie: degree or no degree

[thrilled]

Sounds like the left hand don't know what the right hand is doing.Just like the one thread talked about A green card.

This isn't rocket science.Thailand really seems like it don't know how to get it right.If they don't do something they will end up

Losing the tourist,or more of them

[LPCustom69]

Rules should be made to help good, qualified English teachers. And no, I have never/will never teach English.

[In Search of Space]

The PM and his group seem to be making up things or reacting to things as they come along. I don't necessarily disagree with what they are doing but perhaps a well considered national plan put before the people, rather than hastily though up ideas that have to be changed. Although hats off to the General for amending the visa runner issue, a little less cloudy now

[Scully]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The degree requirement is not going to change.

We all know there are good and bad teachers with and without degrees. Lets not start that debate again.

Thailand does not need more western drop outs coming here. If you are so passionate about teaching, invest in more than a 4 week cert. SIMPLE.

Spend 6 years in further education whilst amassing a huge student debt, I can hear an exodus of foreigners queuing up to earn 20k baht a month in rural Isaan as we speak.

Maybe not simple.

[Bender]

more flexible means lets go back tot the old system.... do visa run as much as you want!

i know it, i know it from the begining all these story about crackdown were only rubbish!

i swear i know it!

[Time Traveller]

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

'Hospitals in Thailand will often not operate without insurance or cash upfront.' -

What does that have to do with immigration issuing visas and right of stay? If hospitals can't run their own business profitably then that's their own problem, not the governments.

[pookiki]

I read all five pages of threads and more are being added as I write. Isn't the issue with English teachers basically the same as other issues affecting migrant workers? As long as there is an 'informal' work force available that has questionable 'legal' status, the people involved are more likely to be exploited -- and wages and benefits depressed as well. As such, I support an the proposition to enforce work permits and binding contracts for teachers that adhere to the Thai Labour Code.

[AYJAYDEE]

feel free to document how many are left to die on the hospital steps

Feel free to document how many farang are a burden to the thai state in public hospitals.

i love it when folks make it so easy for me!! lol

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-planning/travel-news/aussies-a-drain-on-phuket-hospitals-20130815-2rz0a.html

[LPCustom69]

Ok, that is an important step in bring back tourism. Keep making it easy for tourist to stay. I know many that want to stay 6 onths.

Now the next step. Allow all bars in tourist areas to be open 24x7. Tourist do not have to go to work in the morning. That is why there is a bar closing rule in the world to begin with. When I was in Irland the closing time was around 11pm - serioulsy.

Let the night life keep rolling allowing tourist to spend money their maximum amount that will refeash the Thailand economy. All areas in the world that are tourist heavy allow bars to be open 24x7 and some even 365. Thirdly, protect the tourist and serve them.

Maybe they should think about giving retirement visas to people under 50, if they have money to show they can live , what is the problem if they are young or old ? If they have money to stay and spend, and have clean criminal record, let's welcome than. Nobody can milk any system in Thailand, because there is no system, you pay for everything, so it makes sense to let people choose to spend their moneys in Thailand.

They will raise the retirement age before they do that. Geezer pensions are typically 25-50% of what they made when working. So what would be a fair amount of yearly income for an under 50? 150-250K baht per month? In my opinion they'll raise the retirement age and up the monthly/yearly income requirement before opening the can of worms of just letting anyone stay that has the same income as a geezer.

[farangmerou]

I can only shake the head about the total lack of even a bit of thinking, this stuff happen to me on Monday and I have NEVER been a English teacher or anything like that. This "clever" people are not capable to count until 5, ok give them a calculator! What happen? I travel within SEA countries since I write sometimes here and there. Now they've set a limit of 4 Thai entry stamps now after they reject you. Now lets go back to primary school, when I go from Thailand to Myanmar stay there a while and come back to Thailand after a few days I have 2 stamps, now I go usually to Cambodia which needs another 2 stamps because there is no connection from Myanmar to Cambodia adds another 2 which are four, after I go to KL visiting some friends and go to the dentist in Bangkok in between. Now I have within 1 month the stuff accumulated which they say is to much for my whole PP over 3 years. This happen to me on Monday, pls. let this clever people go back to school and learn some basic algebra or at least they should use a pocket calculator when they cant add 2+2. Did this people ever go to school? There are thousands of others with the same CV. At Don Muang on Monday there was another guy from Korea and another from Japan in front of me they got rejected > pls. thinkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

[paz]

I can only shake the head about the total lack of even a bit of thinking, this stuff happen to me on Monday and I have NEVER been a English teacher or anything like that. This "clever" people are not capable to count until 5, ok give them a calculator! What happen? I travel within SEA countries since I write sometimes here and there. Now they've set a limit of 4 Thai entry stamps now after they reject you. Now lets go back to primary school, when I go from Thailand to Myanmar stay there a while and come back to Thailand after a few days I have 2 stamps, now I go usually to Cambodia which needs another 2 stamps because there is no connection from Myanmar to Cambodia adds another 2 which are four, after I go to KL visiting some friends and go to the dentist in Bangkok in between. Now I have within 1 month the stuff accumulated which they say is to much for my whole PP over 3 years. This happen to me on Monday, pls. let this clever people go back to school and learn some basic algebra or at least they should use a pocket calculator when they cant add 2+2. Did this people ever go to school? There are thousands of others with the same CV. At Don Muang on Monday there was another guy from Korea and another from Japan in front of me they got rejected > pls. thinkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

Time to get a new passport, and/or a visa or extension of stay.

[AYJAYDEE]

I can only shake the head about the total lack of even a bit of thinking, this stuff happen to me on Monday and I have NEVER been a English teacher or anything like that. This "clever" people are not capable to count until 5, ok give them a calculator! What happen? I travel within SEA countries since I write sometimes here and there. Now they've set a limit of 4 Thai entry stamps now after they reject you. Now lets go back to primary school, when I go from Thailand to Myanmar stay there a while and come back to Thailand after a few days I have 2 stamps, now I go usually to Cambodia which needs another 2 stamps because there is no connection from Myanmar to Cambodia adds another 2 which are four, after I go to KL visiting some friends and go to the dentist in Bangkok in between. Now I have within 1 month the stuff accumulated which they say is to much for my whole PP over 3 years. This happen to me on Monday, pls. let this clever people go back to school and learn some basic algebra or at least they should use a pocket calculator when they cant add 2+2. Did this people ever go to school? There are thousands of others with the same CV. At Don Muang on Monday there was another guy from Korea and another from Japan in front of me they got rejected > pls. thinkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.

get a multi entry visa if you qualify. if not, stay home

[pinkpanther99]

Unbelievable.

This is a total back track on absolutely everything immigration has told us for the past 6 months.

Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

Now they realise they've not got enough English teachers.

Amazing Thailand, you couldn't make it up.

Never a dull moment.

At least this shambles is more interesting than Cameron/Clegg/Miliband/Farage

Edited August 22, 2014 by pinkpanther99

[kannot]

So funny, Im sure they will be very flexible for the right price!!

[JoeLing]

Thailand doesn't really need foreign English teachers as most Thais
do not see a need, nor have the inclination to speak English and those
people who do want to learn English, TEFL teachers might just not be
qualified enough?

On the other hand, more and more students chose Mandarin as their
second language [tripled in the last 5 years] and there is a severe
shortage of Chinese teachers [1200 for 800'000 students]. Now I'm
pretty sure, most native Chinese teachers here in Thailand have no
visa problems.

Edited August 22, 2014 by JoeLing

[Hawkman]

2) a 22 year old guy fresh from university with degree in Economics in their hand off to Bangkok, wanting to party, not turn up for classes and do coke and shag the students.

Oh, I see now where you've been have getting to. BTW, can't do drugs, and much less coke, with a teacher's salary.

I agree, but I have met some well qualified teachers and expats who do that here. Not my kind of thing and find coke heads annoying but it does go on with some twenty something's here for sure.

Must make clear I'm not saying all qualified people do it, far from it; just used it as an example as a comparison to types of people I've met here.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Edited August 22, 2014 by Hawkman

[AYJAYDEE]

Thailand doesn't really need foreign English teachers as most Thais

do not see a need, nor have the inclination to speak English and those

people who do want to learn English, TEFL teachers might just not be

qualified enough?

On the other hand, more and more students chose Mandarin as their

second language [tripled in the last 5 years] and there is a severe

shortage of Chinese teachers [1200 for 800'000 students]. Now I'm

pretty sure, most native Chinese teachers here in Thailand have no

visa problems.

well they should because english will be the official language for all countries in the new ASEAN economic union.

[Hawkman]

That is absolute rubbish, you obviously have no experience in seeing teachers with or without degrees teaching. There are good and bad on both sides.

Many people didn't have or lacked the opportunity to undergo a degree when they were younger and chose instead to do their learning later in life. I don't see any logic to your argument. Having a degree in a non-education related field makes zero difference to your ability to teach. You make it sound like anyone who doesn't have a degree is some sort of retard.

he didnt say that at all. he said, with no other measure to go by, he would place his bet on the degree over the non degree.

Read his last sentence, he sure implied it.

I do agree with him wholeheartedly however, it's hard for them to measure it and I don't know the best solution. It just seems the degree requirement is for weeding out the definite wasters from applying (which is a good thing) but doesn't measure if the person is a good teacher or not. That to me does not and will not improve the teaching available to Thai students.

What's needed is a better solution. Is a four week TEFL the solution? No. Not in my book.

But, take 2 people - 1) a guy in his 30's, no degree but with a four week TEFL/CELTA, four years experience, clean criminal record and being a very good teacher compared with, 2) a 22 year old guy fresh from university with degree in Economics in their hand off to Bangkok, wanting to party, not turn up for classes and do coke and shag the students.

Who would you choose? Now, I' not saying all degree holders are like that - though I've sure met them - my point is it's the teaching ability that's important here, not the degree requirement.

he implied nothing of the sort: he said:

Whether a university educated person, regardless if they studied teaching, psychology or under-water basket weaving, will make a good teach is anyone's guess. However, I'll wager my money these educated people will probably almost always be better at teaching than some retard high-school drop-out.

he is making a guess based on ONE bit of information , ie: degree or no degree

Fair enough. You could also use his comparison the other way - I'd bet a non-degree teacher who's a high school drop out with years of experience would be a better teacher than someone who has a degree in basket-weaving but with no teaching experience.

Works both ways.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[AYJAYDEE]

Fair enough. You could also use his comparison the other way - I'd bet a non-degree teacher who's a high school drop out with years of experience would be a better teacher than someone who has a degree in basket-weaving but with no teaching experience.

Works both ways.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

yes , but that is 4 bits of information on which to base your decision rather than just the two he was making his decision on. of course yours is a decision with more facts behind it. but that has nothing to do with what he said.

[JSixpack]

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Careful you don't hex a common sense revolution. It's important for a beginner level English speaking Thai Engineer to be able to say that they've been taught English by a farang with at least a degree in Psychology, as opposed to someone who speaks and teaches Thai and can also say "I same same fluent English"?

Careful you don't hex a common sense tradition. It's important for a beginner level English speaking Thai Engineer to be able to be taught English by a farang with at least a degree in Psychology, as opposed to a farang who speaks and teaches some dialect and can also say "I same same fluent English" from habitually talking to bargirls.

[thairastawoman]

Why do they think that most of visa runners are english teachers. Kinda strange for me.

This new rules affected many people who spend more than 60+ baht each month and not work in Thailand.

P.S. Damn English teachers, why innocent should suffer because of your sins? If you work in Thailand got work permit, what's wrong with you i though western people are good enough to respect the laws.

Important post from the one who know nothing and does not understand more.

<3

[istinspring]

Why do they think that most of visa runners are english teachers. Kinda strange for me.

This new rules affected many people who spend more than 60+ baht each month and not work in Thailand.

P.S. Damn English teachers, why innocent should suffer because of your sins? If you work in Thailand got work permit, what's wrong with you i though western people are good enough to respect the laws.

Important post from the one who know nothing and does not understand more.

<3

yes it is, a way more better than your blatant trolling.

Edited August 22, 2014 by istinspring