Bodies of foreign tourists found brutally murdered on Koh Tao beach

[Beetlejuice]

RPI and sincere condolences to both their families absolutely horrific murders So it is now becoming more apparent where not to go for your holidays if you want to have a safe carefree relaxing holiday with beautiful beaches Thailand is not the place to come to.

yes its awful, but come of it how often does this sort of thing happen in west so often IMO it does not usually even bother to be reported.

Before coming out with nonsense put it into prospective against number of tourists and I'm not condoning it at all.

Also get full details and it is possible its a faring or faring who did it

Just because your on holiday here or anywhere you need to take sensible precautions. No one would dream of walking late at night along deserted places anywhere in west and while this is a couple I've seen single forang woman doing that when they just would not back in UK or USA or europe

What does all that mean in English ???

it means its very sad but it happens everywhere in world and probably more in west than here so post claiming otherwise IMO is total nonsense English enough for you

Serious crimes and murders against white folk do happen more in the west, but my guess is that serious crimes, murders, so-called accidental deaths and so-called suicides happening per year in Thailand to Westerners is probably well out of proportion according to the scale of numbers of tourists and ex-pats here. Meaning percentage wise that crimes and deaths affecting farangs in Thailand are probably proportionally much higher per year than in western countries.

I very much doubt that there are any official statistics of westerner related deaths happening in Thailand per annum Each year farangs are dying wholesale here, the unofficial real farang death figures are probably horrendous and as I said; percentage wise according to the amount of farangs in Thailand during a yearly period, the death rates are probably much higher than in the west.

My guesstimate is; that the highest percentage of farang related murders in Thailand is perpetrated against those who become involved with the wrong crowds or activities and that the numbers of those who fall victims of opportunist murders is much lower.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[mrtoad]

I am disgusted that naked pictures of the two dead are flooding the internet. taken at the scene of the crime and obviously for future forensic use not media or public,

My mailbox and news feeds had, I thought, made me numb to this as we get every bike crash and decomposed body pic in full detail on a regular basis, but this is the absolute worst I have ever seen. Please God that the parents or family dont have to suffer more by being exposed to them

SOmeone high up should be demanding an explanation.

My experience of dealing with things like this, is that the scenes are not properly closed off, and all sorts of idiots turn up, and start taking photo's, including medical / rescue workers. IMO it is totally distasteful and unprofessional. It's about time the BIB start making sure that this sort of stuff doesn't happen, but alas I doubt anything will change.

This really is an awful tragedy

[Beetlejuice]

According to the Daily Mirror, the couple were not boyfriend and girlfriend and that the girl left a bar with 2 British men at around 1.00am.

The police are searching for a British man who has done a runner and is now number one suspect.

[timewilltell]

the double murders could affect thai tourism.what a statement.

what about the affect on the victims family's.

i am so ashamed to say i live here.

R.I.P.

Terrible but it happens EVERYWHERE. Sadly there is almost nowhere on earth, where Tourists have not been murdered at some stage.

Never the less, it is horrifying and very bad for our image but don't be "ashamed" to say you live here....there are so many POSITIVES about this country.

Pray tell me !! Why do people like you keep insisting that these things happen everywhere as if to gloss over the REALITY?? Lets be honest here. These brutal crimes against tourists , constant bullying by robbing murderous gangs, thinking we Farangs have no value to our lives, is happening a bit too often in THIS COUNTRY and time we where protected. Nobody, expects to see their children/family/friends to go on holiday and never to be seen again. These horrific murders will now set a precedence for anyone thinking of coming here on vacations.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!!!!

You certainly work very hard to earn your name - SHOUTING in every sentence.

Reality check.

This is possably a crime of passion - but we do not know. Lots of contentious and headline grabbing words like naked, rape, crazy Thais killing foreigners, crazy Burmese killing foreigners and so on ad infinitum.

There is no evidence yet that any or all of these allegations are true. So before we slag-off how dangerous Thailand, Beaches, Koh Tao etc are, we should wait for real facts and not start to create a hysterical response. Will you still stand by your comments if you find out that the young lady's boyfriend did it? We do not know!!!

Either way - this is a first for Koh Tao.

Regardless of your opinion, Thailand is far safer as a holiday destination than most other popular countries. The biggest risk of death or injury here is motorbikes - and that is down to the tourists - not the Thais or Burmese.

A small thought/consideration. In just one newspaper today in the UK, there are stories about -

Young girl shot in the head. Died in hospital

Woman stabbed to death

21 yo male shot dead

Young lady shot dead - 3 people jailed

Young girl badly beaten at carnival

Young man blinded in eye by petrol attack

Man bludgeons flatmate to death with hammer

Men arrested on murder charge in missing girl case

Personally, my wife and I feel far safer here than back in the UK!

We should look at all of life here life in perspective and not make a hasty judgement without real facts.

Sad that such a tragic event becomes a knocking post. I certainly hope that the faimily and friends do not read this thread. Trial by Thai Visa readers strikes again.

I agree things should be kept in perspective. Your comparison between violent incidents reported in the UK and this story is an example of how your perspective is warped. If you read the Thai newspapers there are multiple murders and people being beaten up on a daily basis. That is not the comparison to make though. These two poor young souls were tourists, foreigners if you like, They came to Thailand to have fun and holiday. Whatever morals you may or may not have about kids on a beach, nothing they did could have been, in any way, an excuse for the horror that was inflicted on them.

The fact is foreigners are targeted in Thailand. Targeted for scams, targeted by police, targeted by other officials, targeted for robbery, targeted for abuse, targeted for rape and murder, rights denied and outright racism prevalent.

If you live here long term you can avoid the tourist areas, stay at home or around areas you know and avoid police and other official people (with the exception of immigration - and I intend no slur against Immigration officers by the way who I have found to be usually most helpful) as much as possible. Tourists however come to visit the tourist areas which are beset with the most scams, corruption and illegality. Heck the police and others even pay money for appointments in these areas specifically because they can get in on the scams for their profit. They can't avoid these areas and deserve special efforts by the police and other officials to be protected if Thailand wants to attract foreign visitors.

The fact is that other countries do concentrate on combatting crime as there is a sense that the police will hunt down perpetrators regardless of their race or origin. Here the perception of many seems to be that if the perpetrator is a Thai they will be treated very differently.

This is the issue that Thailand needs to tackle.

[draftvader]

I am alarmed by the amount of knee-jerking in this thread. People looking to move around Thailand "tooled up"? Seriously? I have had the pleasure (and sometimes not) of traveling far and wide across this planet. I can assure those thinking everything here is massively violent that they are very wrong. I can detail very few places on earth as safe as Thailand from the perspective of random violence. Most stories we read about a foreign national coming to a sticky end here involve mass stupidity, naivety or arrogance on behalf of the victim. This one just doesn't seem to fit the bill for Thai on Foreigner violence at all.

The hoe/spade is an opportunistic weapon which leads me to believe that this was very likely a rash decision made by somebody but no real plan (or they would have armed themselves with a more efficient and regularly available weapon like a machete or club). Strong likely-hood of alcohol being involved rather than drugs. The type of drugs that foreigners involve themselves in whilst in Thailand simply don't produce violence however cheap alcohol in vast quantities combined with a jealous 3rd party who stumbles across a gardening implement (workers in Thailand leave their tools lying around) and reacts....

I'll put quite a bit on the results of the DNA testing proving that sex happened between the dead people and the murderer had nothing to do with it. Attacked mid-coitus, in missionary, on the beach, him hit from behind, her to the face. The attacker tried to move the bodies to the sea (hence the man being in the sea) but got spooked. First boat out, headed to BKK thinking he might fly. Now they've gone to ground in BKK and are probably hoping they can get lucky and be smuggled into Cambodia or Laos.

The good news in all this is that, if they feel things aren't progressing properly, Scotland Yard (they're not perfect but they are gods compared to RTP) will fly out here to "assist". This man will be caught and he will stand trial in Thailand.

---EDIT---

Just seen a new news article claiming they have arrested 3 Burmese suspects. I could easily be proved wrong (though they are not Thai). Nonetheless I'm still unsure why this British man has left the island SO quickly after being cleared....

Luckily the RTP must believe they have significant DNA evidence on this girl to pin this on the right person.....unless I am right and there was no rape.

This is just horrific and getting no better after 24 hours!

Edited September 16, 2014 by draftvader

[robsamui]

probably the drug yabaa was involved. it makes people totally nuts

It was probably humid and it was probably dark, too, being at night.

Useless, braindead speculation.

This post should be removed.

R

[robsamui]

I am alarmed by the amount of knee-jerking in this thread. People looking to move around Thailand "tooled up"? Seriously? I have had the pleasure (and sometimes not) of traveling far and wide across this planet. I can assure those thinking everything here is massively violent that they are very wrong. I can detail very few places on earth as safe as Thailand from the perspective of random violence. Most stories we read about a foreign national coming to a sticky end here involve mass stupidity, naivety or arrogance on behalf of the victim. This one just doesn't seem to fit the bill for Thai on Foreigner violence at all.

The hoe/spade is an opportunistic weapon which leads me to believe that this was very likely a rash decision made by somebody but no real plan (or they would have armed themselves with a more efficient and regularly available weapon like a machete or club). Strong likely-hood of alcohol being involved rather than drugs. The type of drugs that foreigners involve themselves in whilst in Thailand simply don't produce violence however cheap alcohol in vast quantities combined with a jealous 3rd party who stumbles across a gardening implement (workers in Thailand leave their tools lying around) and reacts....

I'll put quite a bit on the results of the DNA testing proving that sex happened between the dead people and the murderer had nothing to do with it. Attacked mid-coitus, in missionary, on the beach, him hit from behind, her to the face. The attacker tried to move the bodies to the sea (hence the man being in the sea) but got spooked. First boat out, headed to BKK thinking he might fly. Now they've gone to ground in BKK and are probably hoping they can get lucky and be smuggled into Cambodia or Laos.

The good news in all this is that, if they feel things aren't progressing properly, Scotland Yard (they're not perfect but they are gods compared to RTP) will fly out here to "assist". This man will be caught and he will stand trial in Thailand.

---EDIT---

Just seen a new news article claiming they have arrested 3 Burmese suspects. I could easily be proved wrong (though they are not Thai). Nonetheless I'm still unsure why this British man has left the island SO quickly after being cleared....

Luckily the RTP must believe they have significant DNA evidence on this girl to pin this on the right person.....unless I am right and there was no rape.

This is just horrific and getting no better after 24 hours!

DNA DNA DNA - the Western God of DNA!

Go back to post my post at #208 and get clued-up about rural police procedures in Thailand!

R

Edited September 16, 2014 by robsamui

[draftvader]

I am alarmed by the amount of knee-jerking in this thread. People looking to move around Thailand "tooled up"? Seriously? I have had the pleasure (and sometimes not) of traveling far and wide across this planet. I can assure those thinking everything here is massively violent that they are very wrong. I can detail very few places on earth as safe as Thailand from the perspective of random violence. Most stories we read about a foreign national coming to a sticky end here involve mass stupidity, naivety or arrogance on behalf of the victim. This one just doesn't seem to fit the bill for Thai on Foreigner violence at all.

The hoe/spade is an opportunistic weapon which leads me to believe that this was very likely a rash decision made by somebody but no real plan (or they would have armed themselves with a more efficient and regularly available weapon like a machete or club). Strong likely-hood of alcohol being involved rather than drugs. The type of drugs that foreigners involve themselves in whilst in Thailand simply don't produce violence however cheap alcohol in vast quantities combined with a jealous 3rd party who stumbles across a gardening implement (workers in Thailand leave their tools lying around) and reacts....

I'll put quite a bit on the results of the DNA testing proving that sex happened between the dead people and the murderer had nothing to do with it. Attacked mid-coitus, in missionary, on the beach, him hit from behind, her to the face. The attacker tried to move the bodies to the sea (hence the man being in the sea) but got spooked. First boat out, headed to BKK thinking he might fly. Now they've gone to ground in BKK and are probably hoping they can get lucky and be smuggled into Cambodia or Laos.

The good news in all this is that, if they feel things aren't progressing properly, Scotland Yard (they're not perfect but they are gods compared to RTP) will fly out here to "assist". This man will be caught and he will stand trial in Thailand.

---EDIT---

Just seen a new news article claiming they have arrested 3 Burmese suspects. I could easily be proved wrong (though they are not Thai). Nonetheless I'm still unsure why this British man has left the island SO quickly after being cleared....

Luckily the RTP must believe they have significant DNA evidence on this girl to pin this on the right person.....unless I am right and there was no rape.

This is just horrific and getting no better after 24 hours!

DNA DNA DNA - the Western God of DNA!

Go back to post my post at #208 and get clued-up about rural police procedures in Thailand!

R

You think I don't know this? Difference is that they have a sexually related sample so this "should" be cut and dried. Not too difficult to get the sample.

[HeijoshinCool]

So, let me get this right from what I've read so far:

Witnesses told police the woman left the bar with two British men;

That the woman and one of (apparently) the men were murdered;

That the third man was questioned, and because his wounds were old, released;

That the island was shut down;

That the other man somehow got off the island.

Geez.

Did the police get a DNA sample before they sent the other man off to the airport?

[Rooo]

Posts removed, please stay on topic.

Thank You.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Let the police carry out their investigation and then reassess.

You don't mind just a bit of cynicism I hope?

I lost faith in the Thai police years ago.

Yeah, I'm expecting it. However, since the military have had a presence the police activity and success rates seem on the up.

But perhaps that is just wishful thinking.

[draftvader]

So, let me get this right from what I've read so far:

Witnesses told police the woman left the bar with two British men;

That the woman and one of (apparently) the men were murdered;

That the third man was questioned, and because his wounds were old, released;

That the island was shut down;

That the other man somehow got off the island.

Geez.

Did the police get a DNA sample before they sent the other man off to the airport?

...and he left alarmingly quickly too!

[Rooo]

Please stop with OFF TOPIC posts.

Here is the latest News here, read post # 2 & # 6.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760803-thai-police-hunt-killers-of-two-britons-found-beaten-to-death/#entry8392101

[cloghead]

So, let me get this right from what I've read so far:

Witnesses told police the woman left the bar with two British men;

That the woman and one of (apparently) the men were murdered;

That the third man was questioned, and because his wounds were old, released;

That the island was shut down;

That the other man somehow got off the island.

Geez.

Did the police get a DNA sample before they sent the other man off to the airport?

of course they did--10cc worth

[uptheos]

On Sky News a few minutes ago one of Eamonn Holmes guests who was doing the newspapers analysis, said, "Thailand is not safe, there are these gangs running around and lots of Britons have been killed in the last few years". She added; " I always contact Simon Caulder the guru of travel to ask if a place is safe or not and he said it's definitely not, so that's good enough for me". A bit short sighted I think, but like to have a certain impact to any youngster planning on doing a gap year or lengthy holiday, partying etc.

[phanangpete]

This Country is getting more evil by the day.

RIP, to that poor young couple, hope when they catch the scum, they are dealt with in the same manner as they took their victims.

So sad .

[Rooo]

I have deleted a post and issued a suspension . If you wish to ignore all directives about respect , common sense & decency, you are not welcome here.

[German Viking]

I'll bet my bottom dollar it ain't this British guy who returned on the ferry to Bangkok. That theory is too far fetched since nobody is going to come on holiday, then murder 2 people in a country like Thailand then rape the girl - ain't logical ..... sound like a loada BS to me as if they've had some crackpot advice from the desktop detectives on tv ......

I really feel for these poor young people life isn't fair sometimes ......

A combination of jealousy, alcolhol and probably drugs can create cases like this without any planning in advance unfortunately, caused of this I would not blame any race or group in advance.

I feel sorry with the victims and their families.

Rest in peace guys.

[German Viking]

Back packers in particular are known to have sex out in the open after these parties whilst high. Ive witnessed it en masse during an early morning walk on a beach myself. If that was the case then they were caught by surprise , off guard and unable to fight back.

Another Desktop Inspector Clueless !!!!!

But a possible theory.

[joecoolfrog]

General Prayuth has been reported as saying that this should not have happened in Thailand and does not reflect well in the eyes of the world .

[boatguy]

I am so sad and upset to read this. Koh Tao is not safe! I have been attacked myself in 2010 when I walked back from a party at night. That horrible bastard tried to drag me in the jungle. I was very lucky to get away and only my phone got stolen. A local who passed by just minutes after refused to help me and I had to run all the way back in the dark fearing another attack.When I reported it to the staff of my resort they seemed to have been aware that these things are going on but turned a blind eye on it. Looking back I am angry with myself for not having reported it to the local police but I doubt they would have done anything. Even more upsetting to read about this horrible case. Blaming the migrant workers is always easy, how can they assume that without having a clue. In my case it was clearly a Thai person, male, in his early 20ies, chubby and riding a motorbike. May the poor souls of these two young people who just wanted to have a nice time in Thailand rest in peace. I hope the authorities wake up and step up security not only on Koh Tao but all holiday destinations. Be careful and do not wander around after dark. My thoughts are with the families and friends of the two.

Interesting first-hand account of an attack on that island.

Are you a foreigner?....just wondering

[Rooo]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/760803-thai-police-hunt-killers-of-two-britons-found-beaten-to-death/?p=8392767#entry8392767

[KhunMot]

I am so sad and upset to read this. Koh Tao is not safe! I have been attacked myself in 2010 when I walked back from a party at night. That horrible bastard tried to drag me in the jungle. I was very lucky to get away and only my phone got stolen. A local who passed by just minutes after refused to help me and I had to run all the way back in the dark fearing another attack.When I reported it to the staff of my resort they seemed to have been aware that these things are going on but turned a blind eye on it. Looking back I am angry with myself for not having reported it to the local police but I doubt they would have done anything. Even more upsetting to read about this horrible case. Blaming the migrant workers is always easy, how can they assume that without having a clue. In my case it was clearly a Thai person, male, in his early 20ies, chubby and riding a motorbike. May the poor souls of these two young people who just wanted to have a nice time in Thailand rest in peace. I hope the authorities wake up and step up security not only on Koh Tao but all holiday destinations. Be careful and do not wander around after dark. My thoughts are with the families and friends of the two.

Interesting first-hand account of an attack on that island.

Are you a foreigner?....just wondering

Yes, female European but have lived in Thailand for a long time and speak the language which is why I clearly knew he was Thai. Doesn't have to be necessarily in that horrible case from yesterday but just wanted to point out that the investigators should very carefully check the locals as well.

[monk213]

I'll bet my bottom dollar it ain't this British guy who returned on the ferry to Bangkok. That theory is too far fetched since nobody is going to come on holiday, then murder 2 people in a country like Thailand then rape the girl - ain't logical ..... sound like a loada BS to me as if they've had some crackpot advice from the desktop detectives on tv ......

I really feel for these poor young people life isn't fair sometimes ......

A combination of jealousy, alcolhol and probably drugs can create cases like this without any planning in advance unfortunately, caused of this I would not blame any race or group in advance.

I feel sorry with the victims and their families.

Rest in peace guys.

Impulsive murder is never logical especially if intoxicated. How do you know the mindset and background of this person? People can hide sides to their personality rather well and then randomly expose them with all their evilness. I do not think either way if it was this 'friend' of theirs or not, I just hope they got his DNA before he left.

[retarius]

I have a horrible feeling that migrant workers may be the scapegoats here in a rush to judgement. This case cannot be unsolved, and the cops will be under enormous pressure to find the perps...they may not be too choosy about the evidence. What better than to pin it on some migrant workers? A conviction and hanging are almost assured for anyone accused.

I remember a few years ago a British girl was murdered and they hung some migrant boat workers very quickly indeed...I had a horrible feeling at the time that tourism was far more important than justice.

I do hope that in under our new PM that justice will prevail over money from tourism. This will be a stiff test.

[joecoolfrog]

There is a great deal of International media scrutiny , the BBC for one have already noted how quick the Thais are to blame migrant workers for such crimes. I think the Junta know that finding a convenient scapegoat will not wash this time around.

[Slip]

Sadly what springs to my mind is the possibility that they had been making love on the beach , after a party and a few drinks .

That would be no surprise in a western country , but in Thailand nudity and sexuality is strictly taboo , the more so in rural or isolated areas .

Thailand isn't a playground where holiday makers can cast off all discretion and do as one likes , their are strict codes of behaviour that should be respected .

I'm so sorry that this should happen , my simpathy goes to their families .

do you seriously think a thai would become offended at witnessing sex acts & resort to violence to end the suffering before his eyes?

YES , I do think a Thai would become offended at witnessing sex acts , and may resort to violence ! You shouldn't judge Thailand by Patpong Bangkok , Pattaya , bar girls and prostitutes .

I have been living 10yrs in rural Thailand , moral codes of behaviour are very strict , no nudity , very discrete sex , women's swimming costumes in black Lycra suitable for gymnastics , no bikinis .

Thais are discretely very promicuous , but any blatant nudity or sexuality is deemed disgusting . My impression from staying in Koh Samui , visiting Koh Pangan is that the basic islanders are even more primitive than mainland farm labourers . Most of the island resort staff is from the mainland , not locals . Guide books advise on codes of behaviour , you cannot behave in Thailand as you might in an European resort , without taking a grave risk .

Just to balance out this &lt;deleted&gt; nonsense. Locally to me about 2-3 years ago a young Thai lad was caught on security camera in a local cinema indulging in several sexual acts with a similar girl. The videos of their antics were published online along with the bawdy comments of the viewers on the security team. Both youths were humiliated but neither was blugeoned to death.

But well done on blaming the victims to suit your own prejudice.

RIP to the victims of a horrible crime and all power to their families..

[SinCityGr8One]

Thailand needs to reintroduce the death penalty, with speedy executions like Singapore and china. Violent crime is out if control.

It is not a deterrent though.

It won't stop murder especially when they have to gain face. I would say, when saving face, most Asians don't step back and think of the ramifications should they murder someone.

However, it is the best way of taking the trash out of the Kingdom. Bring back the Cross-buck and the table mounted machine gun ASAP! You don't get a second chance to murder someone when you had 15 rounds of 9mm put into your back.

[MJP]

There is a great deal of International media scrutiny , the BBC for one have already noted how quick the Thais are to blame migrant workers for such crimes. I think the Junta know that finding a convenient scapegoat will not wash this time around.

Yeah, migrant workers, a farang and now the victims!

Boycott.

[hughben]

"One senior officer told the BBC he did not believe a Thai person could have committed such a crime."

Great policing.