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Loved and hated, former PM Thaksin is erased from textbook


webfact

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For starters I specified "outside the TV Forum".

Yes, you can use the internet to get news from outside of Thailand. You should try it.

Other people support many types of democracies, with the common thread being elections.

Since I get my news from a variety of western news sources I have a pretty good idea of what the western world thinks. It doesn't appear that you do.

In censored Thailand I don't trust any polls.

Once again, I have not posted any "pro Shin propaganda", but since you can't address what I do post you make up stuff to argue against. Your arguing against imagined posts has grown whiskers.

You forgot the 2 posts before you re directed to YOUR outside TVF------we were talking about TVF.

Propaganda post again---about Shin style democracy---JOKE. forget democracy until you can conform to it---better you have good governance to your election/democracy style.

Shin/PTP was not a true democracy--this is what 90% of posters-or whatever the vast majority think here on TVF. you are a minority if you still think Thai style democracy is fine. You seemingly wanted that again with wanting Yingluck early election, to get re elected---it was not ever going to happen---now look the record why it had to be stopped. I do not argue against good governance, but I know full well your reliance on an election does NOT in FEB give a result of good governance.

Until like now the Thai people are aware of the lousy PTP government --they have learned that because of the Suthep/intervention--otherwise back to your elections and square 1.

ginjag, if you're going to reply to my posts, then reply to what I post. Nothing in this reply addresses what I posted. If you want to go off on another anti-Thaksin rant then start a separate reply.

One thing here stands out a mile, my strong objection to lousy governing, corrupt and=Amnesty etc etc.

Your hatred for anything that is military, your denial that the PM halted anarchy, and possibly hundreds of lives lost re the red armed mobsters.

The anti Thaksin rant is your excuse to divert, naturally everything that was lousy with the PTP let regime had him at the helm, so a natural dislike.

You are posting about democracy/elections as though they solve problems---rubbish---your in denial and hatred of the clean-up here, as you never mention about the inroads being made only ---example--gagging of the press--human rights, keep the hate going. most are going with the flow for now --but you still want to swim against the flow----your choice.

Once again, you make no attempt to address what I posted, you go on a rant. I am not diverting the topic, you are.

However I do believe that democracy and elections have a better chance and a better track record of solving problems than military dictatorships.

What about your earlier statement "History is history bad or good--we learn from it"? Have you abandoned it?

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You forgot the 2 posts before you re directed to YOUR outside TVF------we were talking about TVF.

Propaganda post again---about Shin style democracy---JOKE. forget democracy until you can conform to it---better you have good governance to your election/democracy style.

Shin/PTP was not a true democracy--this is what 90% of posters-or whatever the vast majority think here on TVF. you are a minority if you still think Thai style democracy is fine. You seemingly wanted that again with wanting Yingluck early election, to get re elected---it was not ever going to happen---now look the record why it had to be stopped. I do not argue against good governance, but I know full well your reliance on an election does NOT in FEB give a result of good governance.

Until like now the Thai people are aware of the lousy PTP government --they have learned that because of the Suthep/intervention--otherwise back to your elections and square 1.

ginjag, if you're going to reply to my posts, then reply to what I post. Nothing in this reply addresses what I posted. If you want to go off on another anti-Thaksin rant then start a separate reply.

One thing here stands out a mile, my strong objection to lousy governing, corrupt and=Amnesty etc etc.

Your hatred for anything that is military, your denial that the PM halted anarchy, and possibly hundreds of lives lost re the red armed mobsters.

The anti Thaksin rant is your excuse to divert, naturally everything that was lousy with the PTP let regime had him at the helm, so a natural dislike.

You are posting about democracy/elections as though they solve problems---rubbish---your in denial and hatred of the clean-up here, as you never mention about the inroads being made only ---example--gagging of the press--human rights, keep the hate going. most are going with the flow for now --but you still want to swim against the flow----your choice.

Once again, you make no attempt to address what I posted, you go on a rant. I am not diverting the topic, you are.

However I do believe that democracy and elections have a better chance and a better track record of solving problems than military dictatorships.

What about your earlier statement "History is history bad or good--we learn from it"? Have you abandoned it?

Did democracy solve problems or did it create problems? I think it created more than it solved. Or are you saying that Thailand has been well managed the last 15 years or so? Next year we are back to democracy. Hold tight. The wolves are preparing themselves in the gym.

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PTP wrongs outweighed the rights. The PM now, his rights outway the wrongs----easy if you look at the truth.

What you call "the truth" reads more like an opinion to me. The truth should be facts, not your judgement if the rights outweight the wrongs.

And i can understand how a foreigner thinks the rights of the current pm outweight the wrongs as your voting rights are not touched and when things go wrong (and they will as people would like to have a say in their own future at some point) you can always leave to the next country.

When you live here you form an opinion, I do not form it only from TVF. We here communicate share views, we have no vote power but some TVF posters will push their views to Thai family members some small influence.

My views of the intervention, PM. are pretty sound, much more integrity than the last elected government. Now is the time when Thais can know more information from the PTP regime, so most of red is more revealed and hopefully they can vote next time with knowledge rather than be brainwashed.

@ Bob12345 - If you are really interested in the truth about the PTP, Thaksin, and his vast family, just enter "shinawatra family criminal history" into Google.

Hours and hours of reading pleasure for you ! biggrin.png

I am well aware of his criminal history and i surely dont approve of it (nor of him or many of his ill conceived policies). But unlike other people that does not automatically make me a supporter of a military coup and one person taking absolute power.

Maybe you can google a bit how other countries did in the past when a person took absolute power. There are examples enough and it almost always ends in the same way. Days and days reading pleasure for you.

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I am well aware of his criminal history and i surely dont approve of it (nor of him or many of his ill conceived policies). But unlike other people that does not automatically make me a supporter of a military coup and one person taking absolute power.

Maybe you can google a bit how other countries did in the past when a person took absolute power. There are examples enough and it almost always ends in the same way. Days and days reading pleasure for you.

......................."when a person took absolute power"..............................

The only person who took absolute power in Thailand in recent memory was none other than Thaksin Shinawatra. In fact it was so absolute he still wielded power while on the run evading the criminal charged he faces. Until the Military stepped in and put a stop to the rot.

Thailand has seen vast improvements since the Military took control and the killing of innocent anti-government protesters has stopped.

I am not the slightest bit interested in what happened in other countries, that does not apply to Thailand. Anyone who cannot or will not see that is a fool.

You say you are well aware of "his" criminal history yet you still support him and condemn the far better alternative. That says a lot about you.

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I am well aware of his criminal history and i surely dont approve of it (nor of him or many of his ill conceived policies). But unlike other people that does not automatically make me a supporter of a military coup and one person taking absolute power.

Maybe you can google a bit how other countries did in the past when a person took absolute power. There are examples enough and it almost always ends in the same way. Days and days reading pleasure for you.

......................."when a person took absolute power"..............................

The only person who took absolute power in Thailand in recent memory was none other than Thaksin Shinawatra. In fact it was so absolute he still wielded power while on the run evading the criminal charged he faces. Until the Military stepped in and put a stop to the rot.

Thailand has seen vast improvements since the Military took control and the killing of innocent anti-government protesters has stopped.

I am not the slightest bit interested in what happened in other countries, that does not apply to Thailand. Anyone who cannot or will not see that is a fool.

You say you are well aware of "his" criminal history yet you still support him and condemn the far better alternative. That says a lot about you.

I do not support Taksin and never have (although some of his policies were fine, he himself seemed like a big risk). But you only seem able to think that whoever does not blindly support the current government must support Taksin, right? And i would support the alternative if he hadnt destroyed the little that was left of democracy and freedom of speech but instead had won an election and represented the majority if the voters.

And you sound like the fool by making the absurd claim that Thailand is unique and what happened in other countries in the past does not apply here. Do you really think that or are you just trying to attack what i posted? I hope its the second because otherwise i guess we are not going to be able to ever have a meaningful discussion.

And you try to deny that the current PM has absolute power at this moment? Then who does he report to, who checks his actions, and how can he ever be punished if he misuses his power?

Your post reads like a rant where you stepped away from every possible fact.

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ginjag, if you're going to reply to my posts, then reply to what I post. Nothing in this reply addresses what I posted. If you want to go off on another anti-Thaksin rant then start a separate reply.
One thing here stands out a mile, my strong objection to lousy governing, corrupt and=Amnesty etc etc.

Your hatred for anything that is military, your denial that the PM halted anarchy, and possibly hundreds of lives lost re the red armed mobsters.

The anti Thaksin rant is your excuse to divert, naturally everything that was lousy with the PTP let regime had him at the helm, so a natural dislike.

You are posting about democracy/elections as though they solve problems---rubbish---your in denial and hatred of the clean-up here, as you never mention about the inroads being made only ---example--gagging of the press--human rights, keep the hate going. most are going with the flow for now --but you still want to swim against the flow----your choice.

Once again, you make no attempt to address what I posted, you go on a rant. I am not diverting the topic, you are.

However I do believe that democracy and elections have a better chance and a better track record of solving problems than military dictatorships.

What about your earlier statement "History is history bad or good--we learn from it"? Have you abandoned it?

Did democracy solve problems or did it create problems? I think it created more than it solved. Or are you saying that Thailand has been well managed the last 15 years or so? Next year we are back to democracy. Hold tight. The wolves are preparing themselves in the gym.

Has any democratic government lasted long enough to take root in Thailand? Has any military government benefited Thailand? Do you really think Thailand will have "real democracy"?

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One step closer to the abyss.

Still it's not selective - Thaksin may be being cut out of history but so is much of the army's past - kids are not taught about the military's only victories of the 20th Century, the air and ground attacks on Thais, mostly in the North and North East in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Good point - My lady even didn't know that their were communists in Sakon Nakhon.

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Has any democratic government lasted long enough to take root in Thailand? Has any military government benefited Thailand? Do you really think Thailand will have "real democracy"?

This is off topic --this is about Thaksin and school history, I just made the point to you to stop all the posts that create the bickering.

These being anti PM /army rhetoric. and lets move on.

posts just being removed, posters getting holiday leave, it is not with general topics, My guess it is this type of posting that is creating problems.

Constructive criticism is required only--this can lead to healthy debate.

I have posted my view on this topic and it being against the wiping out of Thaksin in the history books, the truth needs to be there for an eternity.

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Has any democratic government lasted long enough to take root in Thailand? Has any military government benefited Thailand? Do you really think Thailand will have "real democracy"?

This is off topic --this is about Thaksin and school history, I just made the point to you to stop all the posts that create the bickering.

These being anti PM /army rhetoric. and lets move on.

posts just being removed, posters getting holiday leave, it is not with general topics, My guess it is this type of posting that is creating problems.

Constructive criticism is required only--this can lead to healthy debate.

I have posted my view on this topic and it being against the wiping out of Thaksin in the history books, the truth needs to be there for an eternity.

It's off topic when taken out of context. However getting back on topic, my original post on this subject is below. I invited you several times to address what I wrote and was answered every time with repetitive off topic anti-Thaksin rants.

I like this part:

"Without mentioning either sibling, the textbook does touch on the opposition to Mr. Thaksin’s rule. A subheading describes the protests that preceded his ouster as “the people’s movement against dictatorial power, corruption and embezzlement.”"

So the glorious people's movement removed a dictatorial government and replaced it with, um....

But the important thing is that people will now live happily ever after, provided they keep their mouths shut, and don't work in the tourist industry, and aren't caught up in a morality crusade, and aren't interested in an elected government.

Would you like to reply to what I posted?

Edited by heybruce
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Shades of the Chinese 'Cultural Revolution' where citizens were encouraged to spy on each other. Perhaps the RTA will reinstate the infamous Border Rangers. I'd best be off now and practice standing erect during the national anthem! Or better still I might not leave the house till after 8am.

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Shades of the Chinese 'Cultural Revolution' where citizens were encouraged to spy on each other. Perhaps the RTA will reinstate the infamous Border Rangers. I'd best be off now and practice standing erect during the national anthem! Or better still I might not leave the house till after 8am.

Sarcasm is a dangerous weapon and can cause serious injury or make the user look stupid. whistling.gif

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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Has any democratic government lasted long enough to take root in Thailand? Has any military government benefited Thailand? Do you really think Thailand will have "real democracy"?

This is off topic --this is about Thaksin and school history, I just made the point to you to stop all the posts that create the bickering.

These being anti PM /army rhetoric. and lets move on.

posts just being removed, posters getting holiday leave, it is not with general topics, My guess it is this type of posting that is creating problems.

Constructive criticism is required only--this can lead to healthy debate.

I have posted my view on this topic and it being against the wiping out of Thaksin in the history books, the truth needs to be there for an eternity.

It's off topic when taken out of context. However getting back on topic, my original post on this subject is below. I invited you several times to address what I wrote and was answered every time with repetitive off topic anti-Thaksin rants.

I like this part:

"Without mentioning either sibling, the textbook does touch on the opposition to Mr. Thaksin’s rule. A subheading describes the protests that preceded his ouster as “the people’s movement against dictatorial power, corruption and embezzlement.”"

So the glorious people's movement removed a dictatorial government and replaced it with, um....

But the important thing is that people will now live happily ever after, provided they keep their mouths shut, and don't work in the tourist industry, and aren't caught up in a morality crusade, and aren't interested in an elected government.

Would you like to reply to what I posted?

Read my post and view it said that Thaksin should stay in the history books like the evils of war--or a.n. other so people may reflect what really happened and learn never to go down the evil way again.

This means I object to the PMs decision to erase Thaksins whatever. Constructive criticism does not get a knock at your door.

All your other off topic baiting I am not interested in --it is not for debate as it is in every day on TVF, all has been said and recorded go over old ground for what.??

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No matter how much you deny it this family has support of the people, he was elected fair and square, so was his sister, both were ousted by an undemocratic military coup.

"No matter how much you deny it this family (Shinawatra) has support of the people. True but what % ?

No matter how much you deny it, P.M. Prayuth has support of the people. True but what % ?

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If it were me, I would give the guy a whole chapter in the textbook. A chance to point out what a crooked, vote buying, selfish person he really is. Thaksin only cares about Thaksin. Always has, always will. There's a multitude of evidence proving that. Why not point it out?

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I am well aware of his criminal history and i surely dont approve of it (nor of him or many of his ill conceived policies). But unlike other people that does not automatically make me a supporter of a military coup and one person taking absolute power.

Maybe you can google a bit how other countries did in the past when a person took absolute power. There are examples enough and it almost always ends in the same way. Days and days reading pleasure for you.

That's easy. You need look no firther than the coup makers in 2006 right here in Thailand. It ended pretty well. Elections were called etc. etc.

It wasn't until the meglomaniac in Dubai hired a bunch of paid thugs to hold Bangkok hostage for two months, and subsequently burn and loot a good portion of it because he didn't like the fact that his party wasn't running thing, so he couldn't pull the strings.

Ohh and edit to add, both times that a coup occured in 2006 and 2014, there was no legally elected government in power. People seems to skip over that small detail.

Edited by daboyz1
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Other nations' leaders came to learn from the success of Thaksinomics. Other countries award him honorary degrees and invite him to deliver lectures on various subjects. He is welcome in every country in the world except for the one infested by his jealous, vindictive opponents.

Here's alist of some other folks that have gotten honorary degrees from universiities:

Robert Mugabe

Fidel Castro

Kim Jung Un

That's a small sample. Shall I continue?

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I am well aware of his criminal history and i surely dont approve of it (nor of him or many of his ill conceived policies). But unlike other people that does not automatically make me a supporter of a military coup and one person taking absolute power.

Maybe you can google a bit how other countries did in the past when a person took absolute power. There are examples enough and it almost always ends in the same way. Days and days reading pleasure for you.

That's easy. You need look no firther than the coup makers in 2006 right here in Thailand. It ended pretty well. Elections were called etc. etc.

It wasn't until the meglomaniac in Dubai hired a bunch of paid thugs to hold Bangkok hostage for two months, and subsequently burn and loot a good portion of it because he didn't like the fact that his party wasn't running thing, so he couldn't pull the strings.

Ohh and edit to add, both times that a coup occured in 2006 and 2014, there was no legally elected government in power. People seems to skip over that small detail.

The coup of 2006 worked so well that they decided to do another within a decade...

And luckily the city was only held hostage for 2 months, and not much longer as this year happened.

Maybe people skip over the small detail that there was no elected government in power because it is just that; a small detail based on a formality. It must be pretty clear for most what the outcome of an election must have been giving the efforts one party made to block elections.

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That's easy. You need look no firther than the coup makers in 2006 right here in Thailand. It ended pretty well. Elections were called etc. etc.

It wasn't until the meglomaniac in Dubai hired a bunch of paid thugs to hold Bangkok hostage for two months, and subsequently burn and loot a good portion of it because he didn't like the fact that his party wasn't running thing, so he couldn't pull the strings.

Ohh and edit to add, both times that a coup occured in 2006 and 2014, there was no legally elected government in power. People seems to skip over that small detail.

The coup of 2006 worked so well that they decided to do another within a decade...

And luckily the city was only held hostage for 2 months, and not much longer as this year happened.

Maybe people skip over the small detail that there was no elected government in power because it is just that; a small detail based on a formality. It must be pretty clear for most what the outcome of an election must have been giving the efforts one party made to block elections.

Well Mr T. and company came back with the same vote buying policies etc. Not to mention the rice scam which almost sent the country in to bankruptcy. In case you have noticed, there's a difference bewteen peaceful protests, and setting up an armed encampment in the middle of Bangkok. I noticed that no one rioted or set any fires when these last protests came to an end, unlike in 2010.

While this coup may not fit the western style of "Democracy" it has brought stability to the country both times. In 2006 and this year. Western style democracy is not a "one size fits all" solution for every country.

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That's easy. You need look no firther than the coup makers in 2006 right here in Thailand. It ended pretty well. Elections were called etc. etc.

It wasn't until the meglomaniac in Dubai hired a bunch of paid thugs to hold Bangkok hostage for two months, and subsequently burn and loot a good portion of it because he didn't like the fact that his party wasn't running thing, so he couldn't pull the strings.

Ohh and edit to add, both times that a coup occured in 2006 and 2014, there was no legally elected government in power. People seems to skip over that small detail.

The coup of 2006 worked so well that they decided to do another within a decade...

And luckily the city was only held hostage for 2 months, and not much longer as this year happened.

Maybe people skip over the small detail that there was no elected government in power because it is just that; a small detail based on a formality. It must be pretty clear for most what the outcome of an election must have been giving the efforts one party made to block elections.

Well Mr T. and company came back with the same vote buying policies etc. Not to mention the rice scam which almost sent the country in to bankruptcy. In case you have noticed, there's a difference bewteen peaceful protests, and setting up an armed encampment in the middle of Bangkok. I noticed that no one rioted or set any fires when these last protests came to an end, unlike in 2010.

While this coup may not fit the western style of "Democracy" it has brought stability to the country both times. In 2006 and this year. Western style democracy is not a "one size fits all" solution for every country.

Besides noticing that last protests ended peacefully and previous ones not, did you also analyze why that could be?

Last protests were ment to get the army to take control. So they reached their goal when the protests ended. Besides that it also helped a lot that they were not fired upon by the military with 90+ people killed right before the big fires started.

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Read my post and view it said that Thaksin should stay in the history books like the evils of war--or a.n. other so people may reflect what really happened and learn never to go down the evil way again.

This means I object to the PMs decision to erase Thaksins whatever. Constructive criticism does not get a knock at your door.

All your other off topic baiting I am not interested in --it is not for debate as it is in every day on TVF, all has been said and recorded go over old ground for what.??

Really? Let's go back to your reply to my post, not one of your other posts.

I like this part:

"Without mentioning either sibling, the textbook does touch on the opposition to Mr. Thaksin’s rule. A subheading describes the protests that preceded his ouster as “the people’s movement against dictatorial power, corruption and embezzlement.”"

So the glorious people's movement removed a dictatorial government and replaced it with, um....

But the important thing is that people will now live happily ever after, provided they keep their mouths shut, and don't work in the tourist industry, and aren't caught up in a morality crusade, and aren't interested in an elected government.

Expected response from your savior, denial 100% All about him is wonderful cannot be faulted Thailand misses his corrupt non governing government.

The control freak will always be there as his mega billions will help him stay in the limelight he loves, but that is fading and with that he has to pay out more and more to keep biting.

I don't see you addressing anything about the OP or my post. It looks like you were taking a shot at me that wasn't related to either.

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No matter how much you deny it this family has support of the people, he was elected fair and square, so was his sister, both were ousted by an undemocratic military coup.

"No matter how much you deny it this family (Shinawatra) has support of the people. True but what % ?

No matter how much you deny it, P.M. Prayuth has support of the people. True but what % ?

I don't know what % of the people support PM Prayuth. No one does without an election, but, um....

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No matter how much you deny it this family has support of the people, he was elected fair and square, so was his sister, both were ousted by an undemocratic military coup.

"No matter how much you deny it this family (Shinawatra) has support of the people. True but what % ?

No matter how much you deny it, P.M. Prayuth has support of the people. True but what % ?

I don't know what % of the people support PM Prayuth. No one does without an election, but, um....

Can you wait till later next year, or shall we ask PM Prayuth to organisa an election just to satisfy your curiosity?

Any way the topic is taking out a few references to Thaksin by the MoE. Somehow with all the ;interesting posts' here, it seems almost forgotten which references those were, or actually somehow it seems we don't even know which references those were. Actually Thomas Fuller doesn't really give exanmples, he just seems to be very pro-Thaksin to the point of 'forgetting' a few aspects which would just distract from a 'shining hero'. IMHO, of course, and all that.

May I suggest you read the NYT article of the OP? Hardly real objective, must be that 'fighting for democracy' aspect which allows one to drop objectivity.

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No matter how much you deny it this family has support of the people, he was elected fair and square, so was his sister, both were ousted by an undemocratic military coup.

"No matter how much you deny it this family (Shinawatra) has support of the people. True but what % ?

No matter how much you deny it, P.M. Prayuth has support of the people. True but what % ?

I don't know what % of the people support PM Prayuth. No one does without an election, but, um....

Can you wait till later next year, or shall we ask PM Prayuth to organisa an election just to satisfy your curiosity?

Any way the topic is taking out a few references to Thaksin by the MoE. Somehow with all the ;interesting posts' here, it seems almost forgotten which references those were, or actually somehow it seems we don't even know which references those were. Actually Thomas Fuller doesn't really give exanmples, he just seems to be very pro-Thaksin to the point of 'forgetting' a few aspects which would just distract from a 'shining hero'. IMHO, of course, and all that.

May I suggest you read the NYT article of the OP? Hardly real objective, must be that 'fighting for democracy' aspect which allows one to drop objectivity.

You can do better than this rubl.

Regarding the election, I think a lot of people would have preferred one last July, perhaps supported by a clear statement from the military that it wanted a fair, nonviolent election and would take steps to ensure that happened.

The topic is not about taking out a few references to Thaksin, it is about taking out all references in the history book the junta ordered Thailand's schools to use:

"...high school students will not find the name Thaksin Shinawatra in the history textbooks that the country’s military junta recently ordered schools to use.

Mr. Thaksin’s name was scrubbed from the book by the Ministry of Education, said the textbook’s author, Thanom Anarmwat.

“The officials at the ministry just deleted it, cut it,” he said."

It would be difficult for Thomas Fuller to give an example of something that is not there, but he did write:

"Before the coup, schools were allowed to choose from a variety of history textbooks.

The one that is now the standard had been commissioned by the previous military junta, which seized power from Mr. Thaksin in 2006. The previous edition mentioned Mr. Thaksin at least seven times.

The new text covers the political history of Thailand’s past two decades in five pages, citing the names of many previous prime ministers and other protagonists, including Sonthi Boonyaratglin, the general who overthrew Mr. Thaksin in 2006."

BTW, I read the entire article, and used a quote from the end of the article, post #11 on the first page of this topic.

Edited by heybruce
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