British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[Jeremy50]

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Dailymail doesn't load, where I am sitting. mmmmm.

Please read the thread. It is mentioned a number of times that the

DAILY MAIL HAS BEEN BLOCKED IN THAILAND FOR 3 MONTHS OVER ANOTHER ISSUE!

Please can everybody forgive the shouting here, I feel it is justified. It is not against you Minnehaha but you are the nth person to say the same thing without checking the thread. Hopefully with this bold and uppercase people might not miss it.

There is a certain irony in the Daily Mail being blocked over 'content' given the 'PM's inappropriate comments on bikinis.

[gomangosteen]

As displayed countless times by history, whenever there is a murder or suspect death of a foreigner (tourist mostly) the Thai police have proved many (most) times that they will always make sure that a Thai national is NOT held responsible whether they did it or not.

Thai murderer?...... No justice.

Western murderer?..... Justice.

Migrant murderer?...... Justice.

Countless? Wow, how long did it take you to count them all? Where are your stats?

Britain's FCO - unlikely to lie I'd have thought - say 11 Britons have been murdered in Thailand since January 2009.

Just one nationality i accept, but how many others did you find in your countless count?

When the Australian woman Michelle Smith was murdered on Phuket June 2012 - was there 'no justice'? The sentencing judge said that if the two charged had not pleaded guilty he would have given them the death penalty; instead he gave them just 100 years/life to ensure even with any time off for good behaviour, or remissions of sentence, they would die in jail.

Refer to thread

[connda]

"Two Britons were discovered nakedly..."

Somebody tell the Thai news rags to employ individuals who can actually write (or edit) correct English grammar for their English language editions.

[mikiea]

I wouldn't say that a blood stain is significant evidence.

Murder needs a motive, establish the motive and they will have a case.

murder needs a motive? eh. . eh. .. since when?

[Aceicol]

I'm not really sure why people are getting het up about what nationality the murderer was. It's totally irrelevant. If he/she was British, Thai, Bumranese etc it doesn't matter one bit, this is a human tragedy and nothing to do with nationality. Every nation on the planet has people capable of ding evil things.

Beano - I hope you get some genuine answers soon, my heart goes out to you and you friends family.

On the contrary I think it is very relevant what nationality the murderer/s was/were.

If you bothered to read the thread it is explained everywhere.

As displayed countless times by history, whenever there is a murder or suspect death of a foreigner (tourist mostly) the Thai police have proved many (most) times that they will always make sure that a Thai national is NOT held responsible whether they did it or not.

The Thai government and TAT can in no way compromise the big money brought in by tourists... PROVEN..... and even if all the evidence points towards a Thai, it is simply ignored.

So why is matters what nationality the murder was is VERY significant to the victims and their families and most all to an innocent person possibly taking the rap for the sake of Thai tourism revenue.

Thai murderer?...... No justice.

Western murderer?..... Justice.

Migrant murderer?...... Justice.

Or are you now going to try to tell us that the police would NEVER do this sort of thing? and that everything in Thailand is both super efficient and 100% above board??

I think you are missing the point. I'm talking from a purely human level it doesn't matter one bit what nationality they are.

Will the friends and family feel any better if they are Thai or British? Will it help their grieving? I doubt very much.

If it's a Thai then he/she deserves to be brought to justice the same as anyone would be. People speculating on here about the nationality of them really won't make any difference. You are talking about Police corruption which may very well happen, but that is a different point to what I was making.

[Asiantravel]

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Dailymail doesn't load, where I am sitting. mmmmm.

Please read the thread. It is mentioned a number of times that the

DAILY MAIL HAS BEEN BLOCKED IN THAILAND FOR 3 MONTHS OVER ANOTHER ISSUE!

Please can everybody forgive the shouting here, I feel it is justified. It is not against you Minnehaha but you are the nth person to say the same thing without checking the thread. Hopefully with this bold and uppercase people might not miss it.

There is a certain irony in the Daily Mail being blocked over 'content' given the 'PM's inappropriate comments on bikinis.

Probably that was a huge PR blunder for the new government.

The Independent is also honing in on that headline

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-thai-pm-suggests-attractive-female-tourists-cannot-expect-to-be-safe-in-bikinis-9737016.html

.

[2befrank]

I'm not really sure why people are getting het up about what nationality the murderer was. It's totally irrelevant. If he/she was British, Thai, Bumranese etc it doesn't matter one bit, this is a human tragedy and nothing to do with nationality. Every nation on the planet has people capable of ding evil things.

Beano - I hope you get some genuine answers soon, my heart goes out to you and you friends family.

On the contrary I think it is very relevant what nationality the murderer/s was/were.

If you bothered to read the thread it is explained everywhere.

As displayed countless times by history, whenever there is a murder or suspect death of a foreigner (tourist mostly) the Thai police have proved many (most) times that they will always make sure that a Thai national is NOT held responsible whether they did it or not.

The Thai government and TAT can in no way compromise the big money brought in by tourists... PROVEN..... and even if all the evidence points towards a Thai, it is simply ignored.

So why is matters what nationality the murder was is VERY significant to the victims and their families and most all to an innocent person possibly taking the rap for the sake of Thai tourism revenue.

Thai murderer?...... No justice.

Western murderer?..... Justice.

Migrant murderer?...... Justice.

Or are you now going to try to tell us that the police would NEVER do this sort of thing? and that everything in Thailand is both super efficient and 100% above board??

I think you are missing the point. I'm talking from a purely human level it doesn't matter one bit what nationality they are.

Will the friends and family feel any better if they are Thai or British? Will it help their grieving? I doubt very much.

If it's a Thai then he/she deserves to be brought to justice the same as anyone would be. People speculating on here about the nationality of them really won't make any difference. You are talking about Police corruption which may very well happen, but that is a different point to what I was making.

Yes, I think they would care a lot considering this Chris is a lifelong friend of their son who will in fact be a friend of the family.

So yes, I think at this moment in time they care very much who the actual killer is, and even more so if they are starting to get an inkling that if it was indeed a local, that the police are not going to be motivated to bring their son/daughter's murderer to trial for the sake of tourist revenue.

[Dogmatix]

I really wish when something like this happens they'd immediately invite the British to rush some of their best people to aid in the investigation.

If nothing else it would show concern, and also prove transparency in the investigation.

Even after they allowed British police to come and investigate the Kirsty Jones murder years after the event, the British police were repeatedly stonewalled and not allowed to do their job properly. It only served to illustrate the lack of transparency in Thai police procedures.

Let's face it, people go into the Thai police to make money and have lots of mia nois without having to work hard. There's a fundamental misalignment of objectives, if you introduce the average British plod into the equation. That's not to say there wouldn't also be a lot more bent British coppers, if the system allowed that to happen.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Rimmer]

One inflammatory hearsay post along with the replies to it has been removed. Please stick to the facts as presented, thank you

[Bean87]

Appreciated Rimmer

[joecoolfrog]

Chiang Mai

Yes living in Thailand involves a trade off and I agree that Thai bashing per se is moronic.

There is however no reason why one should not state the obvious , this enquiry appears shambolic and much of the media reporting a disgrace. I have absolutely no idea who commited the crime but to rule out local involvement , as the police seem to have done , is astonishing.

[Bean87]

How many times has it happened in Koh Phangan, girls getting raped or even killed. And im pretty sure the majority are Thai's commiting those crimes.

I can't believe theres not even ONE thai suspect.

[joecoolfrog]

Bean87

My sincere condolences to yourself and all the friends/family of the murdered couple. It was a truly shocking event and I hope those responsible are identified as quickly as possible.

[Chao Lao Beach]

I really wish when something like this happens they'd immediately invite the British to rush some of their best people to aid in the investigation.

If nothing else it would show concern, and also prove transparency in the investigation.

Even if they did, do you think the Brit embassey is competented to rush anything ?

Gezz I bet ever Scott in Thailand votes tommorow...... no doubt which way !

[Dogmatix]

Yes, I think they would care a lot considering this Chris is a lifelong friend of their son who will in fact be a friend of the family.

So yes, I think at this moment in time they care very much who the actual killer is, and even more so if they are starting to get an inkling that if it was indeed a local, that the police are not going to be motivated to bring their son/daughter's murderer to trial for the sake of tourist revenue.

The case, as presented thus far, against Chris Ware doesn't sound too convincing. The police initially let him go after questioning, as they presumably thought the Burmese were a slam dunk as the murderers, and only came back to him when that theory didn't work out.

Let's look at the circumstantial evidence the police are going on:

1. He left Koh Tao quickly. But we don't know his reason for that. Maybe after such a harrowing experience as losing his friend to a horrible murder and being questioned by some unsubtle Thai police who could hardly speak English he just wanted to get away. Maybe he had already planned to leave then.

2. He has a strange looking horizontal scab on his right hand in one of the pictures. We don't know his explanation for that. Maybe he cut it on a rock while diving. It is too low down to be from a punch thrown by him and injuries sustained defending oneself in fights are more likely on the front of the hands as they are put up to protect the face or body.

3. He was said to have been seen strolling near the scene before or after the murder. But they had all been partying, so going for a stroll by the sea to get some fresh air before going to bed is not unusual.

Some of this sounds not too good but the overall picture so far leaves a lot of room for reasonable doubt. Now let's see what seems against the police theory.

1. The commander of the the Phang Na police came out with a completely half baked a theory that Ware and Miller were homosexual lovers and that Ware murdered Miller and Witheridge in a fit of jealousy. Perhaps Ware is gay but Miller had a girlfriend back home and was presumably attracted to Witheridge. That he was bi and in a relationship with Ware seems a big stretch. Also Ware and Miller were apparently sharing a room with Ware's brother in the hotel. So perhaps the policemen imagined the three of them were having gay sex with occasional breaks to pot pretty young tourist girls that came their way. This theory just seems to be libellous nonsense that should be dealt with via a criminal defamation suit.

2. Miller and Ware were long-term friends from home. Friends do get into drunken arguments but, unless, Ware was paranoid schizophrenic, it is hard to imagine him brutally murdering his best friend and a virtually complete stranger as a result of a drunken argument.

3. A garden hoe would not be most farangs' weapon of choice, although one might pick one up in desperation to defend oneself or in a fit of rage. SE Asians from the countryside are much more likely to have used them to kill animals or seen them used to kill animals. Granted the hoe might just have been left on the beach or a farang might have spotted it in a hotel garden during the daytime and made a mental note of it as a potentially useful piece of equipment. But some one working around there would be more likely to know where to find it and what could be done with it.

I rest my case here, until more evidence comes to light.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Bean87]

Bean87

My sincere condolences to yourself and all the friends/family of the murdered couple. It was a truly shocking event and I hope those responsible are identified as quickly as possible.

Apprecitated joecoolfrog.

This can happen to anyone im sure, I got a feeling its wrong place wrong time. There may be more to the story only time will tell, all I know is Dave was an awesome young lad who was great to party with and will be missed by everyone who knew him. Also condolences to the young lady who got taken also. RIP

[ColdSingha]

update on thai pbs shows 2 sets of dna found and also 2 seperate weapons used. now clear more than one attacker involved

[kjhbigv]

Perhaps they've got the results but are still no closer to knowing who did this or at least the results didn't go to script. It's all looking very awkward for the BIB whichever way you slice it.

"Dr Pornchai said he expected results of DNA tests on the two victims would be known by Thursday afternoon."

One thing I never understand in these types of cases here, is that the crime scene is never sealed off for forensics, just a few hours after and there are all sorts of people all over the crime scene.

Edited September 17, 2014 by kjhbigv

[hiller]

What a twist. It will be interesting to see if they really have their killer or ae just tryin make a foreigner guilty to save their tourism. Good they were able to track down a single tourist and make an arrest however leaving the island (quickly) does not mean running from the scene of a crime

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Amazint that they have quickly sent the woman's traveling companions home already. Would police procedure not be that they would remaing available until the investigation was more conclusive.

[khaowong1]

I'm under the impression it takes weeks to determine DNA.. ???

Edited September 17, 2014 by metisdead
Font

[rubik101]

I imagine there was no rape involved, sex yes, but between the dead couple. Jealous boyfriend finds them and goes berserk. And yes, he is quite likely to have packed his clothes in a hurry that night and not noticed the blood and yes his prints will be easily recoverable from the hoe and yes, if the DNA matches, he's away for a long time.

[mataleo]

I imagine there was no rape involved, sex yes, but between the dead couple. Jealous boyfriend finds them and goes berserk. And yes, he is quite likely to have packed his clothes in a hurry that night and not noticed the blood and yes his prints will be easily recoverable from the hoe and yes, if the DNA matches, he's away for a long time.

Thats what think happend too

[Aceicol]

Yes, I think they would care a lot considering this Chris is a lifelong friend of their son who will in fact be a friend of the family.

So yes, I think at this moment in time they care very much who the actual killer is, and even more so if they are starting to get an inkling that if it was indeed a local, that the police are not going to be motivated to bring their son/daughter's murderer to trial for the sake of tourist revenue.

Bloody hell, if there is a point, you'll do your best to miss it.

His friends and family will want whoever the killer is to be caught. I doubt they want anyone fitted up whether they are Thai or British.

Chris would be there helping them with their enquires the same as you would expect anyone who was so close to the whole situation. He's not been charged with murder so your just wildly speculating at this moment in time.

[mataleo]

What a twist. It will be interesting to see if they really have their killer or ae just tryin make a foreigner guilty to save their tourism. Good they were able to track down a single tourist and make an arrest however leaving the island (quickly) does not mean running from the scene of a crime

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Amazint that they have quickly sent the woman's traveling companions home already. Would police procedure not be that they would remaing available until the investigation was more conclusive.

May b they had alibi. Or whatever its called in eng.

[pasak]

Smacks of a police cover up to me. The boys in brown love to hide behind a guise of fumbling stupidity.

The Thai authorities realize that most of the world's attention to a tragedy like this is focused on the first few days after the crime was committed. If they can stall things then they can divert world attention and win in several other ways too.

They might achieve this by throwing out duff or erroneous leads that the naive Farang media invariably soak up, so hungry and sensationalist these hacks are. Meanwhile the manipulated from above Thai Police generate the time to allow the crime scene evidence to be spoiled and the criminal to dispose of any other incriminating evidence. A sort of paternalistic cover up for a wayward 'younger brother'.

They might try, but may not succeed in, pinning it on a foreigner. Again, there's a hierarchy there too. Burmese are top of the list. When that doesn't stand up then Cambodian, if none present then any Farang.

Their master plan is to get their own off the hook while letting the powers that be fulfil their agenda - that of an untarnished tourist industry.

Policing? That's not normally their agenda, as we've all witnessed before. If they can satisfy all the above then they will be in line for promotion and benefit.

Meanwhile a lot of relatives and other innocents are suffering.

[mataleo]

Yes, I think they would care a lot considering this Chris is a lifelong friend of their son who will in fact be a friend of the family.

So yes, I think at this moment in time they care very much who the actual killer is, and even more so if they are starting to get an inkling that if it was indeed a local, that the police are not going to be motivated to bring their son/daughter's murderer to trial for the sake of tourist revenue.

Bloody hell, if there is a point, you'll do your best to miss it.

His friends and family will want whoever the killer is to be caught. I doubt they want anyone fitted up whether they are Thai or British.

Chris would be there helping them with their enquires the same as you would expect anyone who was so close to the whole situation. He's not been charged with murder so your just wildly speculating at this moment in time.

Helping them with his best mate being dead?

He wanted do a runner...

Why if its his beast mate.

U would want stay for sake of his fam

[kimamey]

What the article doesn't mention is the fact that the lad returned to the island as he'd seen the news suspecting him. He was not arrested, he went to them. I just looked at the CCTV footage and the person the police say they are looking for from the CCTV (apparently he walked past the crimes scene at 4 in the morning quite a few times) is clearly not this lad. The person on the CCTV has long black (or dark) hair and looks local rather than European. The mobile phone had blond hair on it. This lad has very short dark hair. It seems to me that he presented himself for an interview and the local plod have assumed his guilt. I'm not buying into this at all.

I think we need to be careful about hair colour in CCTV images. I'm sure that someone could give the technical reasons if they haven't already. I remember doing some part time security work back around 2000 and the B/W video always showed cars looking the wrong colour. Dark looked light and light looked dark and some weird ones in between.

In the 60s there was a UK police series called Z Cars in black and white where the cars were yellow so they looked white on screen.

[bubblegum]

Sad to see so many posters here taking the opportunity to bash Thailand from any angle, the police, the news reports, the investigation, perhaps the most remarkable one was where a poster wished that the UK police had been asked to investigate, how arrogant is that!

And for the poster who asked the question, should we demand the same penalty for a farang murderer as a local one, no, the penalty should be increased because the assumed educational levels are higher in the UK than in Thailand, a Brit murderer really would have had every opportunity to learn that what he had doing was wrong.

Never in my life have I seen a dumb post like this one but then again you yourself mentioned education.

[Dogmatix]

update on thai pbs shows 2 sets of dna found and also 2 seperate weapons used. now clear more than one attacker involved

Thai pbs also came up with this disgusting comment which presumably came from Pol Col Prachum's aspersions about Ware's sexuality, "No semen was found in his anal as being reported by local media."

There is something about blond hair found in Hannah Witheridge's hands saying suggesting that it matched War's blond hair, while David Miller had brown hair. It is hard to know what Thai reporters mean by brown and blond hair, since they only have black hair themselves. But from the photographs, Ware has mousy hair which is slightly fairer than Miller's hair was but neither are really blond or brown. Also Ware's hair is tightly cropped, so it would be hard to get much of a handful of it. The only one with really blond hair was Witheridge herself.

Hopefully the DNA tests will tell us more, although what confidence we should have in Thai police forensic testing of DNA, let alone not compromising the samples, I am not sure.

[Dogmatix]

I imagine there was no rape involved, sex yes, but between the dead couple. Jealous boyfriend finds them and goes berserk. And yes, he is quite likely to have packed his clothes in a hurry that night and not noticed the blood and yes his prints will be easily recoverable from the hoe and yes, if the DNA matches, he's away for a long time.

The police apparently said that he had packed his blood stained trousers in the victim's suitcase after the murder, not his own, and left them there when he fled the scene.

Surely he would have attempted to dispose of them there or, more likely, taken them away with him in an attempt to dispose of them at sea in a bag stuffed with rocks or somewhere on the mainland, far from the scene.