NGO questions if the two Myanmar suspects are scapegoats

[Docno]

"She said the pursuance of the case by the British embassy and its lawyer has inevitably turned a pressure on the Thai police that could jeopardize confidence in the countrys justice system."

I agreed with her concerns and saw good points in her arguments right up until that last bit of nationalistic chauvinism.

That's one way of reading it. But perhaps she's just trying to appeal to the priorities of one of the key stakeholders in this - the authorities. What better way to influence the Thai authorities than to appeal to their ego and concern for reputation/face. If the original statements were targeted at a Thai audience, this may be a very effective persuasion technique (i.e., ''fellow Thais, they will make us look bad if we don't get this right").

[FangFerang]

Simple. Send the suspects' DNA to England where it can be compared to that on the victims.

What on earth makes you think the DNA wasn't swapped when they charged these people?? keep reading this type of post, any outside testing is now pointless.

You're forgetting one little fact, the victims were sent back to the UK long before these guys were arrested.

Do you think the UK will do any tests of their own, or just not bother ?

No, I just think that if a scapegoat was planned then all DNA evidence would have been removed.

Looks like miss Marple hasn't properly thought this post through.

Um, you cannot remove all the DNA evidence from rape in a corpse. It's been tried before, and failed miserably.

[katana]

Director of the CCF Ms Pornpen Kongkachornkiat

Plus a little background info.

http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/node/26988

[MediaWatcher]

littlebw, on 03 Oct 2014 - 22:55, said:littlebw, on 03 Oct 2014 - 22:55, said:

laugh if 2 innocent people get punished?

yea its a big <deleted> laugh

like to see you laughing if you were one of them

eeeya, on 03 Oct 2014 - 22:52, said:eeeya, on 03 Oct 2014 - 22:52, said:

I will laugh so hard if its a set up. I hope it isn't.

Your comment is making me laugh, I believe you took eeeya's comment completely wrong, in fact I think your took it as being opposite to what he/she was meaning.

[slipperylobster]

Sometimes you wish that James Bond was not a fictional character. I hope the forces that be (in england) remove panties and start getting involved in things.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[khunjamesjohnson]

Does anyone find fault with the media in Thailand for the way this case has unfolded? Admittedly, I don't follow many different outlets but the few stories I've seen throughout the case seem to do nothing more than amplify the info from the police. There's a lot of talk about an " independent investigation" which I would agree with, but where is the investigative journalism that would help disclose some of the murkiest details in this case? Does that even exist here?

1. There is no free press.

2. Defamation Laws.

3. Editors will print anything or remove anything for a fee.

4. Threats and intimidation.

Ten journalists have been killed in Thailand since 1992. Most attributed to political gangs, police and unknown.

10 Journalists Killed in Thailand/Motive Confirmed

Terminology explained

Wisut "Ae" Tangwittayaporn, Inside Phuket

January 12, 2012, in Phuket, Thailand

Phamon Phonphanit, Sue Samut Atyakam

September 24, 2011, in Yala, Thailand

Fabio Polenghi, freelance

May 19, 2010, in Bangkok, Thailand

Hiro Muramoto, Reuters

April 10, 2010, in Bangkok, Thailand

Jaruek Rangcharoen, Matichon

September 27, 2008, in Don Chedi district, Thailand

Chalee Boonsawat, Thai Rath

August 21, 2008, in Sungai Kolok, Thailand

Athiwat Chaiyanurat, Matichon, Channel 7

August 1, 2008, in Chaiyamontri, Thailand

Kaset Puengpak, Thai Rath

May 2, 2001, in Viset Chaichan, Thailand

Withayut Sangsopit, Freelancer

April 10, 2001, in Surat Thani, Thailand

Sayomchai Vijitwittayapong, Matichon

January 10, 1998, in Phichit, Thailand

[slipperylobster]

I scoff at people who read newspapers anywhere in Asia. The Filipino Journalists are shot daily. Nobody in their right mind would buy a newspaper. I never try to get information from that source, anywhere, anytime....in Asia.

[Seducedbytheseas]

Regardless if the Thai authorities are claiming that the alleged murder's DNA matches, there will be a secondary test and complete autopsy done by the British authorities. This important confirmation will clear-up any misconceptions relating to the questionable "patsy theory".

[biggles45]

"has inevitably turned a pressure on the Thai police that could jeopardize confidence in the countrys justice system."

I very much doubt whether anyone, including Thais, had any faith in their judicial system, even before this terrible crime .

[slipperylobster]

I think law enforcement evolves slowly. My dad used to tell me stuff about Al Capone and how Chicago used to be on sale to the highest bidder. Thugs would sit in the courtroom and intimidate witnesses, judges bribed, police hired to do dirt work....etc. It would take a long time to bring down a system that is based on payoffs.

By the way, any system at all is corrupt from the git-go. It is basically a matter of evolving up the chain of command. Right now, we are at the Organic Soup level.

[dom4biz]

IF and that is a BIG IF - these guy's are really scapegoats then it would be easy to cover this up.

>> They already pulled everyone's DNA - so they have DNA to switch if need be.

>> The only other authorities who have the original DNA to verify the race of the perpetrators is the FBI

Interesting to see what pans out... an NGO is an NGO just a voice in the wind.

Just saying:)

[spidermike007]

Three migrant workers who have no identification documents and work permits were advised by their colleagues to flee.

No news of the arrest of the owner of the AC Bar for employing workers without work permits and harbouring illegal immigrants yet. Many of the other 600 alien workers rounded up and DNA tested also are apparently illegals. Police seem to have been happy to allow their employers to continue to employ illegals.

If tourists can be raped and murdered by illegals, surely the presence of large numbers of marginalised and ill treated undocumented aliens is a threat to tourism. Even the room maids are illegal. They could rob all tourists in a hotel and quickly disappear over the border to Burma.

Think about what you just said. If his son was not arrested for murder, with all the evidence they had, how on earth do you expect him to be arrested for employing illegal workers? This man is very obviously more powerful than both the police and the army generals. He is above the law. He is an untouchable. This case proves that.

For me honestly it just doesnt make to much sense in many ways that he should have done it... 1. He has money and is powerfull (hence can have loooots of girls not only thais but russian and so on) 2. why should he risk all that to rape some girl? 3. if he did it why put so much evidence everywhere a criminal like him?

the 2 young burmese make just more sence honestly! Young, no money, almost 0 chance to have a farang girl once, big jaleousy of rich guys with money coz they have none, probably drunk playing guitar etc. they just have muuuuuch more motive for the crime! and motive is the most important dont forget that... again i dont say 100% they did it but all these conspiracy theories about Mon... i dont know it just doesnt make any sence that he would do it... risk all of that and beeing so sloppy also?

You are applying common sense and reason to a problem that common sense may not apply to. The fact is, these kinds of guys live in the moment. He may be getting as many women as he can handle. But, he is hitting on this woman, at this moment, and this guy David walks up and gets in the middle, and starts running interference. The fact that Hanna had no interest in him is irrelevant, as far as he is concerned. The entire universe is his. Nobody blocks his path, and gets away with it. Nobody insults the big man. So, he had to dish out immediate retribution. He was successful. And you know something? He knew that his father has both the police and the army under his complete control. And he knew he was above the law. So, without a deterrent, what do you have? Mayhem. Koh Tao style mayhem. This incident proved that not even the Army is serious about real, meaningful, lasting change in Thai society. Only window dressing kinds of stuff.

At this point, the best we can all do is to impose a lifetime boycott on that crime infested island. That is what I am doing. You will NEVER see me there again. And I have been many times. Never again. I always smelled something fishy there. I never liked the vibe. Now, I know why.

[Artisi]

The only way to solve the "stand-off" between "they are guilty" and "no they're not" is for independent qualified 3rd party analysis of all the DNA obtained and the collection of DNA from all those who have refused to allow DNA sampling (I assume from what has been said previously - that some people have refused). Only then will the real fact be known - however I would think this is very unlikely for a number of reason -- that I leave for you to answer.

If only... I would imagine that some or all of the actual evidence has been destroyed, doctored or tampered with in some way, so it wouldn't matter who came to check it over. It is in fact game over for these Burmese fellas

Yes, unfortunately.

[spidermike007]

I think law enforcement evolves slowly. My dad used to tell me stuff about Al Capone and how Chicago used to be on sale to the highest bidder. Thugs would sit in the courtroom and intimidate witnesses, judges bribed, police hired to do dirt work....etc. It would take a long time to bring down a system that is based on payoffs.

By the way, any system at all is corrupt from the git-go. It is basically a matter of evolving up the chain of command. Right now, we are at the Organic Soup level.

I would say more like the basic noodle soup level, loaded up with alot of sugar, MSG, and salt. Not very pure. Not organic at all. But, you are right. In 50 years, when Thailand is ready to join the civilized world, and become a part of the league of respected nations, in terms of law and order, it will have to step up, and completely reform the Thai police. Until then, it is just a big game.

[catweazle]

Regardless if the Thai authorities are claiming that the alleged murder's DNA matches, there will be a secondary test and complete autopsy done by the British authorities. This important confirmation will clear-up any misconceptions relating to the questionable "patsy theory".

And this info you got from exactly where?

[spidermike007]

Director of the CCF Ms Pornpen Kongkachornkiat

Plus a little background info.

http://www.frontlinedefenders.org/node/26988

Commit this face to memory. This woman is a giant. She is one of the most courageous people to come along in a long time, in a land where the kind of courage it takes, to speak out, and buck the system, is in very short supply. The kind of woman who might edge her country one step closer to being a part of modern civilization. Kudos to this brave soul. She is my HERO.

[Cambodger]

It's now shaping up to be a Dark of the Moon Party -- not a Full Moon party.

As the brilliant Pink Floyd remarked "There is no dark side of the moon. It's all dark".

PARTY ON, Poindexter!

The new ad for tourists: Come to our island and buy drinks from murderers. Maybe you could be next!

These jokes don't really work on a thread about tragic murders.

[bongoz]

Regardless if the Thai authorities are claiming that the alleged murder's DNA matches, there will be a secondary test and complete autopsy done by the British authorities. This important confirmation will clear-up any misconceptions relating to the questionable "patsy theory".

What utter rubbish!!!

[nativealien]

Unfortunately, at this point I think the evidence is so hopelessly compromised that we'll never know for sure who the real killers are. Who knows what DNA evidence is real and what might have been planted. The police have had all the time in the world to doctor the evidence with nobody looking over their shoulder. Did they doctor the evidence? No way to know. But, if they didn't doctor it and if they really cared that the world would see the case investigated honestly, they should have asked from day 1 for some British investigators to work side by side and monitor everything they did--especially professional evidence collection and strict chain of custody preservation to prevent tampering.

[bongoz]

It's now shaping up to be a Dark of the Moon Party -- not a Full Moon party.

As the brilliant Pink Floyd remarked "There is no dark side of the moon. It's all dark".

PARTY ON, Poindexter!

The new ad for tourists: Come to our island and buy drinks from murderers. Maybe you could be next!

These jokes don't really work on a thread about tragic murders.

Welcome to Koh Tao, Thailand...

[catweazle]

This could shed some light on the story: Hannah's phone was given to the police by one of her friends the day after the murders: http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2014/10/koh-tao-murder-they-did-not-do-it-say.html

[Mosha]

Guys as i just wrote on the new Topic from a few minutes ago: Just think now:

i have a probably good if not the best question... coz i am always reading about DNA this UK that independet checking that!

they are now the acused and will have a trial date right! so every lawyer has the right to bring expert witnesses into court.. so the easiest way (the UK has her body and the samples of the seamen DNA) is for the lawyer to get an UK expertwitness Scotland Yard or the FBI i read wanted to be involved too and just check the DNA themselves with the DNA of these to guys...

even the worst lawyer in the world would do that ... so we can be sure he will do it... so IF it shows that the 2 DNA samples match also with the FBI or Scotland Yard they wont show it in court (not to intimidate them even more) but we can be sure that they did it even if it will never come out that they did the tests! Probably after all these alligations and bad police work and stuff the FBI or SY will ask the lawyer themselves if they can be of assitance... so i honestly am 99% sure that they will do it... and if the DNA shows that its a false positive it will come out on court day... and if the DNA matches we will not hear from it but we will all know that they did it....

Chibo,

Courts in Thailand do not work like courts everywhere else (I know this from bitter experience). If you plead guilty, then you do not get to submit anything, no mitigation no nothing, you are there to pick up your sentence and nothing else. There are no 12 peers judging you, just a judge and he hands out whatever he sees fit. In short they will be asked their names and that's about it.

This is not correct. Do some research. On a capital case there is a trial and all the evidence is presented.

Friends who attended the Dale Henry murder trial said it was like watching Perry Mason in Thai.

[CapFarmer]

Together with Myanmar officials, British authorities should demand to question the accused. During the visit, DNA sample could be collected. British have the DNA from the bodies of the victims, may they rest in peace, God bless their souls. Then a proper, transparent DNA analysis could be conducted. I pray that the international community does not let this rest.

[Cambodger]

It's now shaping up to be a Dark of the Moon Party -- not a Full Moon party.

As the brilliant Pink Floyd remarked "There is no dark side of the moon. It's all dark".

PARTY ON, Poindexter!

The new ad for tourists: Come to our island and buy drinks from murderers. Maybe you could be next!

These jokes don't really work on a thread about tragic murders.

Welcome to Koh Tao, Thailand...

Cool man, edgy I like your style, the man boy lad culture is how you rolling it bro.

Yeah WhhatttsupppPP!

[mauGR1]

I may be wrong, but i think that Sean McAnna knows a lot .

He accused a Koh Tao family, the Koh Tao family accused him.

So , why did Thai police let him go ?

Did they just dismiss him as a paranoid fool ?

If he went back home, why English police didn't ask him some questions ?

...Or did he vanished in the air ?

[metisdead]

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[Cambodger]

I may be wrong, but i think that Sean McAnna knows a lot .

He accused a Koh Tao family, the Koh Tao family accused him.

So , why did Thai police let him go ?

Did they just dismiss him as a paranoid fool ?

If he went back home, why English police didn't ask him some questions ?

...Or did he vanished in the air ?

A couple of possibilities...

He's gone to ground in shame after been outed publicly for the child porn conviction.

Or he's signed a contract with a TV production company..

There is no doubt one will be working on a documentary as we speak and will probably be out within a month or so.

If he has he wont be speaking to anyone else until its broadcast as they will do anything to protect their exlusive.

Remember the British media have been in contact with him, even in Koh Tao so i imagine hes been signed up already.

Thats just how it works these days with something this big.

The police in the UK will definitely have interviewed him already, I suspect as he got off the airplane.

[atyclb]

Hers the Bob Dylan song about falsely imprisoned Ruben Hurricane Carter

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGMSfiH850o/media]

[Lite Beer]

Human Rights Workers Concerned about the Police’s Non-Transparency Process of Arresting the Suspects of Two British Tourists Murders

KOH TAO: -- The director of the Cross Cultural Foundation (CrCF) has expressed her concerns about the police’s non-transparency process of arresting the suspects of two British tourists murder and is afraid that the Myanmar workers the police have caught are just scapegoats because she had received information about the police arresting the suspects without charging them.

She also said that the suspects had no legal representatives and translators, and the result of the DNA tests was suspicious, so she has contacted a legal team to follow the case.

Reporters reported that yesterday (October 3, 2014), after the police revealed that the DNA results from three Myanmar workers whom the police just had caught matched with the sperm found on the body of the victim and cigarette butts found on the scene of murder.

CCFMs. Pornpen Khongkachonkie, The director of the Cross Cultural Foundation (CrCF), revealed with reporters from Thai PBS Online that she had received a complaint concerning the case about the police constantly trying to catch Myanmar workers in Koh Tao. She also revealed that the three Myanmar workers were playing rattan ball with other migrant workers on September, 27. There were nine of them, but the three Myanmar workers, who had no identification when the police showed up, heard their friends telling them to run, so they did. The police was followedthem, and eventually they got caught. Now they are the suspects of killing two British tourists.

“We have information that before this, there were so many DNA tests on Myanmar workers that it made everyone feel they weren’t safe. This is quite scary for those who work in the field of human rights. Our concerns are: 1) there was an arrest with any charges. 2) Was the request to do the DNA test accorded with the criminal justice? 3) During the arrest, did the police provide a translator or not. 4) Do the suspects have legal representatives? 5) The DNA test result was so suspiciously fast. Before this, the DNA test result of the foreign tourist took 3-4 days. Is this discrimination?”

The director of the Cross Cultural Foundation (CrCF) also said that now everyone is just more worried about the decrease in tourism than creating transparency justice system. The British Embassy and the legal representative of the victim are following the case closely. This might effect on the reliability of the justice system in Thailand.

-- Samui Times 2014-10-04