Rights group arranges lawyers for Myanmar men

[lausie]

The video is available to watch on the csi la Facebook page. You'll see a few copies of the video including one where the contrast has been altered which makes it much clearer. There is definitely someone in front.

The question is who is that person and why was the video cut (albeit badly) so as to remove him?

[Lozza]

This sums it up perfectly for me: We were over there." No, you were over there!"

British-Tourists-Re-enactment-001.jpg

Photo's don't lie.

[Lozza]

Dodgy looking date stamp

Even if the timestamp is authentic, a speedboat organised immediately from koh tao could most likely get to koh samui in time to board the 0615 flight to bangkok which gets in at 0745am. Or perhaps even the 0600 service which gets into bangkok at 0705.

So perhaps its authenticity does not have so much weight considering this.?

The lawyers will get a passenger list, shouldn't be hard. The local police wouldn't have. It's probably on the gone missing list

[ffaarraanngg]

Dodgy looking date stamp

Even if the timestamp is authentic, a speedboat organised immediately from koh tao could most likely get to koh samui in time to board the 0615 flight to bangkok which gets in at 0745am. Or perhaps even the 0600 service which gets into bangkok at 0705.

So perhaps its authenticity does not have so much weight considering this.?

The lawyers will get a passenger list, shouldn't be hard. The local police wouldn't have. It's probably on the gone missing list

The scheduled departure times from Koh Samui and Surat Thani Airport have been shown on CSI LAN.

[Lozza]

Good news, everyone should have legal counsel when jailed guilty or not. However, this will not help those who cannot accept the overwhelming evidence against these two or those who want to believe it was the rich Thai kid (for no other reason than he is rich and Thai) that did it who was taking an exam at school in Bangkok and appeared on security cameras that day in Bangkok.

No doubt the lawyers will be able to collect new DNA samples from their clients and have it compared against the DNA results from the semen taken from the scene originally and sent to both Thai and Singapore labs. But again, doubt this will convince some of admitting their original suspicions were wrong.

While police may have done things wrong, there is no plausible way they could fake the DNA and expect to get away with it unless these two accused disappear from the planet and nobody can ever check their or their family's DNA ever again.

What exactly is the "overwhelming evidence" you keep referring to? I think most people have very little faith in anything the BIB say especially after their lamentable performance in this case and we only know what they say about the DNA.They seem to be mostly relying on the "confessions" which are not evidence.

Again based on what is being reported ...

There friend who was with them right up until the crime will be a witness against them.

Witnesses have put them around the scene at the time of the incident as well as video.

They didn't come forward despite weeks of the publicly stating they were looking for those singing/playing guitar and in at least one of the videos.

A phone of one of the victims was found at their place. (not the phone Facebook forensics keep showing that was collected and displayed by police in the first days of the investigation)

They confessed

They reenacted in front of hundreds of people.

And the big kicker -- their DNA matches the semen on the victim.

And to add ...

The Semen DNA collected well before these two identities were known was also sent to Singapore. So, at least two labs have typed the DNA. Now we have two suspects who match that DNA. Two suspects unless who disappear from the face of the earth (along with their family) will be able to be checked again by their lawyers, NGO and others who want to prove their innocence down the road. (something the police know)

I FOR ONE AGREE WITH YOU 100%. THEY ARE GUILTY

Ok, that's fine your opinion. This will all change when Sean Mcanna sings and sing he will. Just a few quick questions.

Why was the Patriarch and his Brother Mon filmed on the beach at dawn with a blue glove sifting through things before Police arrived. Mon then puts himself smack bang into the middle of the crime scene metres from the bodies.

Why was Mon included in the re-enactment next to one of the boys? he was also observed things from behind a tree..

Sean McAnna was there have you seen his injuries from that night? his arm and calf had identical cuts to Davids. The wounds were a message.

Had it been the Burmese boys why would Sean be running around paranoid trying to get off the Island he was very happy there. I can assure you there was one reason he had to leave and it wasn't for Asian killers on the lose.

Why did Mon and the undercover policeman give Sean a courtesy call in a supermarket of all places.

Why didn't the Patriarch offer a 1 million baht reward for the arrest of these killers on the loose messing up the tourist season.

Do the Thai police allow an original suspect to join in an investigation. Even if he wasn't a suspect truly bizarre.

At the end of the day these poor souls are looking at death. If they happen to not make it to trial for any reason, remember Sean is still out there and that must be a big worry for some.

He told the truth from the get go.

[fish fingers]

I agree, Sean is the only way this case gets solved. He is a good friend of the deceased so I can only think that he knows he has to step up to the plate and wants to see the right people brought to justice.

In my opinion it would actually be far safer for him to come forward and tell the truth.

[gwenvo]

What was the connection between Sean and David? Good friends? How long did they know each other?

[lausie]

Unless I'm mistaken, I understand they both went to Leeds Uni.

[phuketandsee]

Ok, time for us to put out money where our mouths (fingers) are. Please join me in donating to Andy Hall to help ensure the accused get the defense to which they are entitled.

http://andyjhall.wordpress.com/

JTJ, BJ et al - you are interested in justice right? So how about you?

[gwenvo]

Oh yes...David was in Leeds Uni and Sean was living in the same area in Leeds.

[intune53]

Heres an idea, stop being a bitter old man and blasting people that at least are prepared to do what they can to make sure justice is done. When you do nothing and you could have or worse just spit at people that are trying and doing it looks and sounds really pathetic and one sad personality

Maybe you just dont like seeing people trying to do something positive because you gave up trying in life or maybe you've always sucked up what the establishment has told you without question and cant think outside the box. Maybe you tried for a while and gave up, i dunno.

Its not your fault you ran out of positive energy, I pity you..

Dont worry I got someone to sign the petition on your behalf anyway

That is an extremely good point. I wonder how many other names have been entered into the petitions on other peoples behalf without their knowledge? And also how many names have been invented just to get the figures higher?

Those who created these petitions, did they first contact the victims families representatives to ask if the families approve? Has anyone considered that the families may not want this sort of attention and is disrespectful for people who are totally unrelated to take these matters into their own hands?

If you go and look at the comments in the petition right now you will see many people who personally knew David have signed and commented.

[Lozza]

John, you make me feel physically sick.

One of the most important aspects of a murder is MOTIVE. Do you understand??? Is it difficult for you to comprehend???

Please explain to me the motive?? I really want to hear you views on this as the rest of what you say is absolute horse shit!

Hmm! I think we're all over john dearest best to not take the bait. Pointless really he knows what happened, how it happened.. she said he said. Has lot's of time on his hand should get a law book at the local library to keep him busy. Good night John Boy

[irishsmile]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

DONE!!!! let's get the ball rolling folks and get true justice for the families of these poor kids and expose the corrupted face saving keystone cops and officials for what they really are. Please sign the petition now! Edited October 5, 2014 by irishsmile

[intune53]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

DONE!!!! let's get the ball rolling folks and get true justice for the families of these poor kids and expose the corrupted face saving keystone cops and officials for what they really are. Please sign the petition now!

This definitely supports the families of the victims!! David's girlfriend and friends have all signed within the last few hours and left comments too. Everyone wants justice.

To the families and loved ones of David and Hannah: we are all standing with you!!!!!!!!!!

Edited October 5, 2014 by intune53

[canuckamuck]

That punch blade thingie is a nasty weapon. Particularly at night when you don't know it's coming. A guy swings at your head and if he connects, instead of a blow to the head, you get a 1 inch deep / 1 inch wide puncture in your skull or neck (where major arteries are, and serious bad guys would know that). Looking at the diagram of wounds to David, most of the hits (v. possibly by punch blade) are by a leftie are on the right side of his neck. Who would have such a weapon? Well, anyone could buy one, but a policeman/tough guy would be someone likely to have such a weapon and know how to use it most effectively. Now consider for a moment, Sean's photo of the two men he says threatened him the morning after the crime. Both were tough guys and friends with each other. One is a local cop. The cop has not been DNA tested and can't be a suspect because he's a cop. Connect the dots.

upon further reflection, the murderer with a weapon like that could have been right handed if he attacked from the David's rear. That would fit my scenario (mentioned in an earlier post) of David first being diverted by a friend of the rapist, and then going to the aid of Hanna and possibly being attacked from the back while doing so.

There is also the possibility that David was held tight by a dog pack of several thugs while a tough guy whacked him several times with punch knife and then a few more times as he collapsed. David is supposed to have been involved in the altercation in the AC Bar referred to by McAnna which may have caused the locals to "lose face". Meanwhile others could have pinonned Hannah, so she couldn't move or cry out.

Yes this is the most logical scenario. Someone with a fragile ego and some influence loses face and decides to teach the farangs how things really are on the island.

A gang of guys, friends of the offended, intercept the couple. A couple of guys hold David while an enforcer uses the punch knife execution style. Hannah is also held down and it isn't necessary to go into detail about what happened to her.

A rage killing over loss of face by an untouchable. Very predictable in LOS and is a very common cause of murder here.

In fact this is the reason everyone knows, never make a Thai lose face; they go homicidal.

[canuckamuck]

But wasn't David's phone found at the scene of the crime originally?

There is something that could be a phone in one of the photos but the resolution is too low to blow it enough to see exactly what it is.

a phone was found early in the investigation...no clue who it belongs to

This phone is identical to the phone in the news coverage of them recovering the phone from the bushes. A black smart phone with a grey metallic edge. I wish I had the link now it is burried back in the threads. I think it was a channel 7 clip it was all in Thai.

[Commogwinto]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

When I attempt to get to change.org site, it comes up in Thai, not sure what the fields are for, I want to sign but not sure how to get the petition bit in English? Can somebody pls tell me, thanks, Commo

[lausie]

You should find a drop down menu at the bottom right of the page where you can change the language.

[jabis]

Come on everyone on TV .. if you want to be sure about this then we need 10,000 sigs to move on it to petition the British Embassy and British government for another independent investigation, all people want is real justice and closure for David and Hannahs families, that means 100% without doubt .... get enough voices and the UK gov will have to open an investigation if they havnt already behind closed doors.

We can make a difference for once, all it takes are for good people to do something....

https://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller#share

Please Moderators im asking you on behalf of many do the right thing and let this link stay.

When I attempt to get to change.org site, it comes up in Thai, not sure what the fields are for, I want to sign but not sure how to get the petition bit in English? Can somebody pls tell me, thanks, Commo

There is a dropdown-box at the bottom right of the page, there you can select the language.

[boomerangutang]

Pardon me for being a cynical, but that assumes...

>>> attorneys will be allowed for the Burmese. We still don't know that yet. The OP merely states that a Human Rights group is trying to get that arranged. Until that happens, the Burmese have zero counsel.

With a comment like that I think I don't feel the need to reply to you again on this subject. I can't believe that moderators allow people who's only intention obviously is to instigate conspiracy theories to continue to post in this thread.

You say you're not going to 'reply to me again on this subject'? Oh don't break my heart. Seriously though, have any attorneys actually been allowed to represent the Burmese at this juncture? Yes or No? Or is it at the stage (where this thread started) that a rights group is endeavoring to provide an attorney? Even if it's allowed by authorities, it will be interesting to see whether attorneys can do what attorneys are supposed to be able to do, or whether they will be controlled and micro-managed like the reenactment on the beach.

Do you even see how more strange and embarrassing your paranoid conspiracy theories are getting as facts continue to show they are just unsupported BS pretending to be facts? Has it got to the point where now you need to make such outrageous conspiracy claims that nobody will ev en bother to address?

Who's coming unglued John? Who's getting shrill? Could it be your many supporting statements for the powers-that-be conspiracy (to frame the Burmese) are always being knocked off the rails. Take a deep breath and do some deep knee bends.

[denkiblue555]

I am referring to the date stamped Thai security cameras of the rich Thai kid that was taking an exam at university the day of the murders.

You may wish to look into the credibility of the evidence that you are highlighting - and not just drink the crap they are putting out?

Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?

I think as has been mentioned a gazillion times, the actual wounds on the victims are so terrible and so strongly suggest that this was not a random act of violence - this had something far more substantial that motivated the killers....motivation I simply don't believe the 2 migrant workers have been claimed to have had.

Other serious concerns John, before you go off believing all the 'evidence'.

1. The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning

2. Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not

3. Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes

4. There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest

5. Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it

I hope the truth comes out to provide closure for the families - scapegoats don't provide closure.

I'm sorry, although I don't THINK (meaning personal feeling) the Burmese committed these horrendous crimes, BUT what you are postings had no basis.

A. "Do you really think two migrant workers with nothing, who were in a foreign country where they didn't have proper command over the language would commit this terrible crime for apparently no reason, you know, just ruin everything that one night....just because?"

Ummm... we don't know, we weren't there, we are not them. Nobody, except the killer(s), knows why they did it.

1. "The crime scene was seriously contaminated from the beginning"

Fair and valid point, but it depends what evidence they are using from the crime scene.

2."Certain people were allowed to refuse DNA testing, others were not"

It's not a crime to refuse a DNA test - I wouldn't give one the RTP, would you trust them with a sample of your DNA?

3. "Like it or not, the island is run by 5 families and they say what goes"

All of Thailand is run by corrupt people, from the top down to the local BIB.

4."There would be no chance for these Myanmar men to get a fair trial in the US/UK etc due to certain official's comments and the rest"

Crimes and even murders are reported in the US / UK on a daily basis (alleged to have committed a crime). If someone is charged with a crime in the 'west' the public think they are guilty, until a court finds them otherwise - this is just a fact of life.

5. "Quite clearly someone was very very very angry with the David and Hannah, and had means to do something about it"

Why were the "very very very angry" with them? What do you base that statement on. Yes they were murdered, nobody knows the reasons why.

A. So surely there is a burden on someone to prove this - do you believe this is not extremely important.....establishing a motive?

1. Contaminated is a problem - it removes credibility and introduces variables.

2. It seems 'human' rights were extended in some cases and not in others - I find this inconsistency significant.

3. Yes, I am not debating that - you can see how it supports my opinion though?

4. 'Legally' innocent until proven guilty? But I know this did not happen in the west, it happened in Thailand - under Junta rule.....which certainly affects things.

5. Have you seen the horrendous photos of the victims?

As I mentioned earlier, we are all simply on a forum expressing opinions - I actually wish none of us were having this discussion....it really is a terrible situation.

[Commogwinto]

You should find a drop down menu at the bottom right of the page where you can change the language.

Thanks Lausie, found it now stands at 23096 signatures

[draftvader]

23,187 @ 09:46 on Monday 6th October

[draftvader]

Ok, time for us to put out money where our mouths (fingers) are. Please join me in donating to Andy Hall to help ensure the accused get the defense to which they are entitled.

http://andyjhall.wordpress.com/

JTJ, BJ et al - you are interested in justice right? So how about you?

I have searched his site for any reference to him creating a fund for this but can't find it. Please can you provide evidence that he will and I will donate.

[heyexile]

Can't wait for Andy Hall to be charged with defamation. You gotta love this country!

Have a feeling you know about several on-going criminal defamation cases re Artificial Vegetable co. and the excellent working conditions of Burmese migrant workers.

Watch out for character assassinations of AJH and Ms Pompen (director CCF). JTJ and co will be up for that.

For those who want to "do something" or stand up and be counted, there are better ways than a petition to FCO (sign it anyway for publicity value). AJH has a legal fund already for this case. If you are in TH, act cautiously as the Powers can access your bank records and you don`t want to be a co-defendant.

Rather than bombard Mark Kent`s twitter, try the Supreme Commander of the Police Dept and the Police Commissioner General but beware criminal defamation & martial law.

http://andyjhall.wordpress.com http://thaivisa.com/forum/topic/765580

[rickirs]

Unfortunately, it is only a matter of time that both suspects hang themselves out of great remorse for their crimes. No more story, no more doubt, and no more questions.

[metisdead]

A post using all bold large and different colored font has been removed:

Forum Netiquette

1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

[Beetlejuice]

John, you make me feel physically sick.

One of the most important aspects of a murder is MOTIVE. Do you understand??? Is it difficult for you to comprehend???

Please explain to me the motive?? I really want to hear you views on this as the rest of what you say is absolute horse shit!

How about just simply being crazed out their minds on drugs and alcohol? Do you not consider that as being a possibility?

How many crimes around the world are actually fuelled by drugs and alcohol, or just opportunist crimes where there is no apparent motives?

What about the families of the victims? Have any of them made up to date statements since the arrests? As they should have more knowledge than we do regarding the situation so far, rather than speculators playing guessing and who done it games.

[draftvader]

A post using all bold large and different colored font has been removed:

Forum Netiquette

1. Please do not post in all capital letters, bold, unusual fonts, sizes or colors. It can be difficult to read.

Understood. Those are the rules. Please can I ask that you edit the first post that shares the link to have

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?lang=en-GB

to avoid hundreds of posts describing how to change it to English.

[happysanook]

Meanwhile, local officials in Surat Thani said yesterday that tourists were returning to Koh Tao resort island in droves after the alleged culprits in the murders of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were arrested.

Thawisak Inphrom, the chief of Koh Pha-ngan district, of which Koh Tao is part, said that tourism on Koh Tao has become "busy again" following the arrests.

"Tourists now have become more confident about safety on the island, and they are confident the authorities can provide safety for them," he said.

Surat Thani Governor Chatpong Chatrapoot said the arrest of the suspects had helped restore confidence among prospective tourists to Koh Tao.

Not one bit of regret offered to the families of the victims, but hey the tourists are coming back so all is good in la la land so lets get back to scamming...

Well it's their fault for partying and staying out too late.... :| The solution, cattle brand all foreigners coming into the country see we can be identified and returned to our proper kennels when lost.

Thailand. There's no place like it.