Suspects in Koh Tao backpacker murders retract confessions, says official

Bleacher Bum East · October 13, 2014

Just because I had a few minutes and wondered I took the first photo, cropped it, made both the same size and reduced the opacity of the 'good' photo.

CCTV shot is pretty bad but the profiles do seem to line up when I placed one on top of the other.

cctvcompare.jpg 1.jpg

If you can, try the same thing with the Arakanese guy who police say was the one captured on the CCTV video and see who looks closer to the image. I think the police said it was the one who left the beach early to go see his girlfriend (i.e. the witness), but I'm not certain.

I don't know what the result will be one way or the other, but it would be interesting to see.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

Here is a picture from the Lotus Bar in Koh Tao, a favourite haunt apparently of Sean McAnna who is also depicted below.

At 2:10 in the video blog, Mr Mon, upright Koh Tao citizen, pillar of the Sairee Beach community and brother of the village headperson said that staff at Lotus Bar are witnesses to the fact that Seam McAnna dropped by there covered in blood late on the night of the murders and asked staff to clean him up. Mr Mon says in the video that, on being question by himself and his policeman friend, Sean denied that he had gone out at all on that night. Police investigators didn't comment on this allegation.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Dogmatix

DennisF · October 13, 2014

Just because I had a few minutes and wondered I took the first photo, cropped it, made both the same size and reduced the opacity of the 'good' photo.

CCTV shot is pretty bad but the profiles do seem to line up when I placed one on top of the other.

cctvcompare.jpg 1.jpg

If you can, try the same thing with the Arakanese guy who police say was the one captured on the CCTV video and see who looks closer to the image. I think the police said it was the one who left the beach early to go see his girlfriend (i.e. the witness), but I'm not certain.

I don't know what the result will be one way or the other, but it would be interesting to see.

Tried it, the angle was all wrong. Didnt fit.

JLCrab · October 13, 2014

So when is the bail hearing?

I dont think they have enough cash to pay to get to a bail hearing let alone the bail money, mores the pity.

Those 2 out of the prison and speaking might be an eye opener for many.

The Burmese embassy should step in and put up the bail and take them into the embassy's custody.

The Myanmar Embassy would likely be prohibited in its official capacity to put up bail under provisions of the Vienna Convention on Counsular Relations (1963):

Article 55 Respect for the laws and regulations of the receiving State

1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such

(diplomatic) privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of the (host) State.

This is most likely why on the US Embassy - Bangkok website it says:

A consular officer will do whatever he/she can to protect your legitimate interests and ensure that you are not discriminated against under local law. A consular officer cannot release prisoners, provide guarantees of their comportment, or provide funds for bail.

Edited October 13, 2014 by JLCrab

ParadiseLost · October 13, 2014

Here is a picture from the Lotus Bar in Koh Tao, a favourite haunt apparently of Sean McAnna who is also depicted below.

sean-mcanna-lotus-naked.jpg Sean-McAnna-drag.JPG

At 2:10 in the video blog, Mr Mon, upright Koh Tao citizen, pillar of the Sairee Beach community and brother of the village headperson said that staff at Lotus Bar are witnesses to the fact that Seam McAnna dropped by there covered in blood late on the night of the murders and asked staff to clean him up. Mr Mon says in the video that, on being question by himself and his policeman friend, Sean denied that he had gone out at all on that night. Police investigators didn't comment on this allegation.

I am starting to see the light - whatever these guys say, believe the opposite. Why be so eager to sell Sean out to the press, with such damning evidence - if he was allowed to leave?

You going to know about a guy in your bar, bleeding profusely and get your staff to clean him up? Big porkies there. Another attempt to divert attention away from the real wart.

And Sean. If he says he was home sleeping - he was out. A gang rape gone wrong sounds way more plausible now than one month ago. Admitting to that must be hard, but for me the hardest part would be doing such a sick thing.

Check toxicology reports, it will most likely show both victims were drugged, hopefully Hannah never came out of it, but David must have and he died because of what he witnessed and most certainly tried to stop...

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

DNA testing can be done in hours. Commercial labs turn it around in less than 3 days with no rush put on it.

100's of tests would obviously take longer.

From the "we will complete the investigation in3 days " statement it was right at 3 days.

The burden of proof is on you JD, I did a search and everything I found so far says, 5 -10 days. That is for the test not because of backlog. Hopefully there is a knowledgeable poster her who can clear this up.

Getting it done in hours JD? Links please.

http://www.gizmag.com/rapid-dna-testing/15950/

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

"a few minutes later"???

I welcome the link for the bar owner.

Thanks. No link then?

Just proved the point that you are full of hot air!!

No. Just at work. Your link?
You left the link at home?

No. Was only able to access my phone at work. ( and only when not in meetings)

Posted link from 4 year old article.

Edited October 13, 2014 by jdinasia

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

"a few minutes later"???

I welcome the link for the bar owner.

Thanks. No link then?

Just proved the point that you are full of hot air!!

Links posted to 4 year old article stating hours not days.

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

DNA testing can be done in hours. Commercial labs turn it around in less than 3 days with no rush put on it.

100's of tests would obviously take longer.

From the "we will complete the investigation in3 days " statement it was right at 3 days.

The burden of proof is on you JD, I did a search and everything I found so far says, 5 -10 days. That is for the test not because of backlog. Hopefully there is a knowledgeable poster her who can clear this up.

Getting it done in hours JD? Links please.

http://www.gizmag.com/rapid-dna-testing/15950/

UK source

http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/dna.shtml

This technique is particularly fast, taking a matter of hours, and has a specificity of about 1 in ten billion.

JoeLing · October 13, 2014

The burden of proof is on you JD, I did a search and everything I found so far says, 5 -10 days. That is for the test not because of backlog. Hopefully there is a knowledgeable poster her who can clear this up.

Getting it done in hours JD? Links please.

http://www.gizmag.com/rapid-dna-testing/15950/

UK source

http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/dna.shtml

This technique is particularly fast, taking a matter of hours, and has a specificity of about 1 in ten billion.

So what's the specificity of those online DNA kits for bloggers?

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

The burden of proof is on you JD, I did a search and everything I found so far says, 5 -10 days. That is for the test not because of backlog. Hopefully there is a knowledgeable poster her who can clear this up.
Getting it done in hours JD? Links please.

http://www.gizmag.com/rapid-dna-testing/15950/

UK source

http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/dna.shtml

This technique is particularly fast, taking a matter of hours, and has a specificity of about 1 in ten billion.

So what's the specificity of those online DNA kits for bloggers?

Don't know.. Have a link?

ParadiseLost · October 13, 2014

I repeat what I wrote earlier - if it were possible to turn back time - other than to prevent this horrific crime - here is the point to start again - the last bit of real investigative work anyone has seen:

Nation: 24 September - Police free bar owners and look for ex village headman's son.

Pol Lt-General Panya Mamen: "the headman's son is believed to be hiding in Bangkok. Panya refused to reveal the suspects' names, saying police were questioning one man and expected to arrest another in Bangkok today. Strong words...

More info regarding Channel Three interview, and the vid: LINK

exactly, and the same time (+/- 1 day) panya also said, he was going to test all koh tao.

probably in order to find the 3rd man then.

and then... shortly after, days, he was oops replaced..

and then... shortly after, days, two burmese were arrested.

speaks volumes, doesnt it ?

It does appear there was at least one policeman trying to do his job then.

Hopefully the Lt-Gen will be given a chance to clarify where the allegations against the family member originated - was it prior witness testimony? Perhaps DNA test results with a 70% match? Something convinced this man. The 'third' DNA sample could be it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by ParadiseLost

catsanddogs · October 13, 2014

I remember reading a few press accounts that the police did not release results of toxicology tests. I think one of these accounts said it was to 'protect the victims families' or words to that effect. Strange that.

petercool · October 13, 2014

flame post removed along replies with quotes of that

jdinasia · October 13, 2014

edit --- civil liberty reasons not to allow DNA testing to be automatically done on http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/26/justice/supreme-court-dna/

Edited October 13, 2014 by jdinasia

JoeLing · October 13, 2014

So what's the specificity of those online DNA kits for bloggers?

Don't know.. Have a link?

Sorry, I don't but sure CSI LA must have them.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

So when is the bail hearing?

I dont think they have enough cash to pay to get to a bail hearing let alone the bail money, mores the pity.

Those 2 out of the prison and speaking might be an eye opener for many.

The Burmese embassy should step in and put up the bail and take them into the embassy's custody.

The Myanmar Embassy would likely be prohibited in its official capacity to put up bail under provisions of the Vienna Convention on Counsular Relations (1963):

Article 55 Respect for the laws and regulations of the receiving State

1.Without prejudice to their privileges and immunities, it is the duty of all persons enjoying such

(diplomatic) privileges and immunities to respect the laws and regulations of the receiving State. They also have a duty not to interfere in the internal affairs of the (host) State.

This is most likely why on the US Embassy - Bangkok website it says:

A consular officer will do whatever he/she can to protect your legitimate interests and ensure that you are not discriminated against under local law. A consular officer cannot release prisoners, provide guarantees of their comportment, or provide funds for bail.

I guesss you are right. It's up to Burmese private citizens and others to raise money for them. Don't suppose they could get bail, unlike all hi-so Thai murderers but they will need money for their legal defence, if they survive long enough to go to trial.

hobz · October 13, 2014

Nice pics of what looks to be Nom Sod

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10609431_929456377067804_333728947346409305_n.jpg?oh=7e9ef96dab46dfad916b53055bf2d9bc&oe=54F41B61&__gda__=1421493596_adf45ff30e3f1ead9fffa6caeddd814e

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

Here is a picture from the Lotus Bar in Koh Tao, a favourite haunt apparently of Sean McAnna who is also depicted below.

sean-mcanna-lotus-naked.jpg Sean-McAnna-drag.JPG

At 2:10 in the video blog, Mr Mon, upright Koh Tao citizen, pillar of the Sairee Beach community and brother of the village headperson said that staff at Lotus Bar are witnesses to the fact that Seam McAnna dropped by there covered in blood late on the night of the murders and asked staff to clean him up. Mr Mon says in the video that, on being question by himself and his policeman friend, Sean denied that he had gone out at all on that night. Police investigators didn't comment on this allegation.

I am starting to see the light - whatever these guys say, believe the opposite. Why be so eager to sell Sean out to the press, with such damning evidence - if he was allowed to leave?

You going to know about a guy in your bar, bleeding profusely and get your staff to clean him up? Big porkies there. Another attempt to divert attention away from the real wart.

And Sean. If he says he was home sleeping - he was out. A gang rape gone wrong sounds way more plausible now than one month ago. Admitting to that must be hard, but for me the hardest part would be doing such a sick thing.

Check toxicology reports, it will most likely show both victims were drugged, hopefully Hannah never came out of it, but David must have and he died because of what he witnessed and most certainly tried to stop...

No idea who owns the Lotus Bar but probably a connection or someone forced to pay protection money to this family. Mon, I believe owns Intouch resort and Intouch Bar and manages AC Bar on behalf of his brother. AC Bar is where the two victims had their last drinks and where the two Burmese suspects were illegally employed. It also where Mon's nephew, Worot (Nomsod) used to spend his spend doing the owner's son bit. Mon is in pictures up bright and early the morning of the murders assisting police doing their unqualified work of collecting evidence on the beach. Sean seems to be a weird character and Mon implies in the video that he was known to be messed up with drugs on his second and more recent visit to the island. He said "nong from AC Bar" knew him, which probably a reference to his nephew, Nomsod. In addition to enjoying posing as a transvestite, he Sean has a criminal conviction for possession of kiddy porn in Scotland in 2013.

Police said they wouldn't release the toxicology reports 'out of respect for the victims' families', obviously trying to imply a slur that they must have voluntarily used recreational drugs prior to being murdered. However, it is unlikely that they would have taken things like Rohypnol or Ketamine knowingly. I believe that most of the drugs taken by foreign kids there are cannabis which are taken from unauthorised dealers and users by police and sold to bar owners for re-sale to tourists. If they are found to have taken anything else other than alcohol and cannabis, their friends should speak up honestly as to how likely this was to have been voluntary. Unfortunately I think the police hospital would have tampered with the corpses before releasing them to make it hard for British pathologists to find anything.

I think your theory is quite plausible. Looking at the pics and security videos of the last moments of David and Hannah, they don't give the impression that they were together or in the process of getting together as a couple. In the vids they are always walking separately. There again their friends could add more here. What is not clear though, if we pursue this theory, is why David was found naked. He could have been stripped after being murdered but then there would have been blood stains on his shirt. If he was having sex, there should have been traces of his DNA on Hannah and the condom. The condom would also have probably been left on his body or fallen off in the sea. Anyway the confessions allegedly beaten out suspects feature the suspects having sex. This could be important to the police story because it pre-empts the possibility you raised that David interrupted a third man raping Hannah with a condom and tried to rescue her.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

Burmese NGOs have raised money for the suspects' parents to visit their sons in the Koh Samui jail. I hope they live long enough to see their parents.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Dogmatix

partington · October 13, 2014

The burden of proof is on you JD, I did a search and everything I found so far says, 5 -10 days. That is for the test not because of backlog. Hopefully there is a knowledgeable poster her who can clear this up.

Getting it done in hours JD? Links please.

http://www.gizmag.com/rapid-dna-testing/15950/
UK source
http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/dna.shtml

This technique is particularly fast, taking a matter of hours, and has a specificity of about 1 in ten billion. [/size]

You are referring to a description of one technique, specifically called "single cell fingerprinting" that is not validated or generally used in any jurisdiction for DNA identification. There is no point in citing methods that are not currently accepted as legally validated for DNA profiling.

You also mistakenly, I'm sure, left out that the end of the paragraph about "single cell fingerprinting" in the link you give, where it actually tells you this:

"More work is required to validate the technique, particularly to use it in forensic science. "

You have chosen this "single cell fingerprinting" method, which isn't currently used in routine DNA identification from a page where all the techniques that currently ARE used in forensic DNA testing and have been validated are described in detail. This is being selective to the point of deception.

There is no suggestion that the Thai DNA forensic services are using unvalidated semi-experimental techniques, and it would be astonishing if they were.

Edited October 13, 2014 by partington

transam · October 13, 2014

Burmese NGOs have raised money for the suspects' parents to visit their sons in the Koh Samui jail. I hope they live long enough to see their parents.

10451139_716026015141793_4039921876338213060_n.jpg

Be interesting to hear what the parents have to say about stuff after their meet....

I wait in anticipation...........

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

This technique is particularly fast, taking a matter of hours, and has a specificity of about 1 in ten billion. [/size]

You are referring to a description of one technique, specifically called "single cell fingerprinting" that is not validated or generally used in any jurisdiction for DNA identification. There is no point in citing methods that are not currently accepted as legally validated for DNA profiling.

You also mistakenly. I'm sure, left out that the end of the paragraph about "single cell fingerprinting" in the link you give, where it actually tells you this:

"More work is required to validate the technique, particularly to use it in forensic science. "

You have chosen this "single cell fingerprinting" method, which isn't currently used in routine DNA identification from a page where all the techniques that currently ARE used in forensic DNA testing and have been validated are described in detail. This is being selective to the point of deception.

There is no suggestion that the Thai DNA forensic services are using unvalidated semi-experimental techniques, and it would be astonishing if they were.

Take a look at the inaccurate toy breathalyzers used by police. These are available on Ebay for US$5-10 and certainly not used in any developed country but standards in Thailand are different, not to mention the plastic dousing rods used to detect explosives.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

I remember reading a few press accounts that the police did not release results of toxicology tests. I think one of these accounts said it was to 'protect the victims families' or words to that effect. Strange that.

Very strange, given the police story that the two victims were having sex on the beach, despite the law of forensic support for that theory and the earlier remarks from on high suggesting that tourist women wearing bikinis without being ugly enough were to blame for their own rapes and murders. You would definitely think they would to release a report that revealed the victims were stoned on pot and cocaine etc, thereby further contributing to the their own deaths. But Rohypnol and Ketamine traces might indeed be offensive to their families as that would suggest involuntary ingestion.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

Burmese NGOs have raised money for the suspects' parents to visit their sons in the Koh Samui jail. I hope they live long enough to see their parents.

10451139_716026015141793_4039921876338213060_n.jpg

Be interesting to hear what the parents have to say about stuff after their meet....

I wait in anticipation...........

I would be more interested to hear what any NGOs accompanying them have to say, if they are allowed in.

Dogmatix · October 13, 2014

Just because I had a few minutes and wondered I took the first photo, cropped it, made both the same size and reduced the opacity of the 'good' photo.

CCTV shot is pretty bad but the profiles do seem to line up when I placed one on top of the other.

cctvcompare.jpg 1.jpg

If you can, try the same thing with the Arakanese guy who police say was the one captured on the CCTV video and see who looks closer to the image. I think the police said it was the one who left the beach early to go see his girlfriend (i.e. the witness), but I'm not certain.

I don't know what the result will be one way or the other, but it would be interesting to see.

The profile does seem to be quite a decent match. Doesn't look anything like the third Burmese who is the former police star witness. It looks closer to the suspect with the longer hair but he has a significantly flatter nose than Nomsod and I don't think his jaw looks right either. The person in the video has long forward pointing, hanging sideburns which are also absent from the longer haired suspect.

Nomsod has similar sideburns in his pictures at the press conference after he allegedly had a haircut and got lawyered up. Don't know what he looked like immediately prior to that but here is a picture from 2011 which purports to show his 'gentlemen prefer blonds' tendency.

I think this one is also supposed to be him. There is no date but it is probably also a few years ago.

It shows long, pointed, forward angled, hanging sideburns but not hair covering the ears. A photograph taken just before the murders would be needed to clear things up.

Another point about the CCTV video is that police seem to have edited two minutes out of it. As the guy walks back the second time towards the left you can see some one walking ahead of him who would be clearly visible on the section edited out.

petercool · October 13, 2014

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