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Posted
................aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but, the rest of us payed too though, much more than your paltry 35mill Ciddy payed...........!!!!! :D:D

redrus

redrus

wonder how much they payed for their throphy cabinet

bet they got that from the g..ment too :o

oh i forgot they dont have one

no thropies to go in it :D

but they probably still claimed from the lottery under hopeless causes :D

Posted

................aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but, the rest of us payed too though, much more than your paltry 35mill Ciddy payed...........!!!!! :D:D

redrus

redrus

wonder how much they payed for their throphy cabinet

bet they got that from the g..ment too :o

oh i forgot they dont have one

no thropies to go in it :D

but they probably still claimed from the lottery under hopeless causes :D

They'll be claiming for the team soon too............ :D:D

redrus

Posted

Err, those that live in glass houses, eh Redbus!

From a Red website -

In March 1941 the Luftwaffe (UWE’S DAD DID IT) put paid to all the efforts of James Gibson and those at the Club. Old Trafford was bombed. Ten years of their lives had been destroyed in the instant the bombs exploded. Manchester City quickly offered to help their neighbours, proposing Maine Road be used as a temporary home for United until Old Trafford could be rebuilt. But who would re build the club, who could re build the club? It was left to James Gibson again to try and bring forth the phoenix from the ashes

On the pitch United won the 1942 Football League North Cup, and were runners-up in the North Cup of 1945. THE WAR YEARS HAD BEEN SPENT BY THE CHAIRMAN TRYING TO PERSUADE THE GOVERNMENT TO GRANT THE CLUB FINANCE TO REDEVELOP AND REBUILD THE GROUND AT OLD TRAFFORD. A licence was finally granted in November 1944 for the demolition of the grandstand to allow progress to begin. It was two years later, after considerable effort, that Mr Gibson - through the local MP of Stoke-on-Trent, Ellis Smith - managed to act as a catalyst for A DEBATE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS FOR CLUBS AFFECTED BY THE WAR TO BE HELPED BY WAY OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT. TEN CLUBS, INCLUDING UNITED, WERE IN NEED OF REBUILDING WORK FROM WAR DAMAGE. EVENTUALLY, IN MARCH 1948, ALMOST SEVEN YEARS TO THE DAY AFTER OLD TRAFFORD HAD BEEN BOMBED, UNITED WERE GRANTED £17,478 TO REBUILD THE GROUND. It was a great relief to the Chairman, who could now spend his time rebuilding the team

1948 proved to be a landmark year for United. Not only did they have permission to begin work enabling them to move back home, but also they were to win their first major honour under James Gibson.

I think also, that as one of the seven grounds used for the 1966 World Cup, you were also given government funds for works required to hold those games. Correct me if i'm wrong.

So Redbus, it seems that you don’t know your own history and in particular that your ground was funded by…yes, the public, not once but twice, so what is your point about City and Coms!

As for our ground, as my colleague has corrected you, we stepped in to be the tenant’s of an athletics stadium, took it over and paid (ourselves substantially) to develop it, i.e. take out the track and excavate down a further tiers-depth, AND we still pay for it on a fixed fee formalae related to capacity (over a certain crowd attendance, which I think is 35,000 we pay the corporation, as my dad would call it, I think it is)

Next!

Posted
Err, those that live in glass houses, eh Redbus!

From a Red website -

In March 1941 the Luftwaffe (UWE’S DAD DID IT) put paid to all the efforts of James Gibson and those at the Club. Old Trafford was bombed. Ten years of their lives had been destroyed in the instant the bombs exploded. Manchester City quickly offered to help their neighbours, proposing Maine Road be used as a temporary home for United until Old Trafford could be rebuilt. But who would re build the club, who could re build the club? It was left to James Gibson again to try and bring forth the phoenix from the ashes

On the pitch United won the 1942 Football League North Cup, and were runners-up in the North Cup of 1945. THE WAR YEARS HAD BEEN SPENT BY THE CHAIRMAN TRYING TO PERSUADE THE GOVERNMENT TO GRANT THE CLUB FINANCE TO REDEVELOP AND REBUILD THE GROUND AT OLD TRAFFORD. A licence was finally granted in November 1944 for the demolition of the grandstand to allow progress to begin. It was two years later, after considerable effort, that Mr Gibson - through the local MP of Stoke-on-Trent, Ellis Smith - managed to act as a catalyst for A DEBATE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS FOR CLUBS AFFECTED BY THE WAR TO BE HELPED BY WAY OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT. TEN CLUBS, INCLUDING UNITED, WERE IN NEED OF REBUILDING WORK FROM WAR DAMAGE. EVENTUALLY, IN MARCH 1948, ALMOST SEVEN YEARS TO THE DAY AFTER OLD TRAFFORD HAD BEEN BOMBED, UNITED WERE GRANTED £17,478 TO REBUILD THE GROUND. It was a great relief to the Chairman, who could now spend his time rebuilding the team

1948 proved to be a landmark year for United. Not only did they have permission to begin work enabling them to move back home, but also they were to win their first major honour under James Gibson.

I think also, that as one of the seven grounds used for the 1966 World Cup, you were also given government funds for works required to hold those games. Correct me if i'm wrong.

So Redbus, it seems that you don’t know your own history and in particular that your ground was funded by…yes, the public, not once but twice, so what is your point about City and Coms!

As for our ground, as my colleague has corrected you, we stepped in to be the tenant’s of an athletics stadium, took it over and paid (ourselves substantially) to develop it, i.e. take out the track and excavate down a further tiers-depth, AND we still pay for it on a fixed fee formalae related to capacity (over a certain crowd attendance, which I think is 35,000 we pay the corporation, as my dad would call it, I think it is)

Next!

bloody hel_l Bred, i only said it as a joke about the council house.

It must be all that bitterness inside, sometimes its hard to let go :D

Bred, at least i know where to come if i can't find any info on the net. I will just ask you to find it for me. :o

They'll be claiming for the team soon too............

Judging by some of City's performances lately Redrus, you may be right :D

Posted
AND we still pay for it on a fixed fee formalae related to capacity (over a certain crowd attendance, which I think is 35,000 )

Bloody hel_l BB, how often does that happen...........! :D

Jasus, you use an example from over 60 years ago, after OT was bombed. Well bugger me fella, who wouldn't need assistance.... :o Even today after those rather bloody extreme circumstances, there is only one team that wouldn't. Chelsea.

The Council House jibe, is just a wind up, it just winds some more than others. No offence meant gents. :D

redrus

Posted
AND we still pay for it on a fixed fee formalae related to capacity (over a certain crowd attendance, which I think is 35,000 )

Bloody hel_l BB, how often does that happen...........! :o

We paid to the council £3m for the season 2004/05 so it must be pretty often :D

Jasus, you use an example from over 60 years ago, after OT was bombed. Well bugger me fella, who wouldn't need assistance

Doesn't matter how long ago, we and the public helped you out in a time of crisis. Or is there a time limit on history and being able to conveniently forget things. After all, city's move to Eastlands is also history now but you guys keep bringing it up.

The Council House jibe, is just a wind up, it just winds some more than others. No offence meant gents. :D

I know that red and jjp. :D No anger was ever intended in any of my replies, just keeping the public informed of facts versus banter :D

Posted

1- That depends how much you pay......... :D 04/05, were you not playing football back then... :o

2- Maybe the time isn't quite as relevant as the circumstances. :D

3- You get more more like your bloody avatar everyday.... :D:D

redrus

Posted

Ever wondered why ManUre are called the “Rags”?

I’ve always wondered how United got to be nicknamed the ‘Rags’, until I found a fascinating snippet in Gary James’ Manchester - The Greatest City.

It appears the name was given to them by their own fans.

During the 1930-31 season, United were in a wretched state. The club teetered on the brink of bankruptcy and were attracting crowds of less than 4,000 for some games (not always such a big club, eh!) - despite still being in Division 1.

Harry Hughes, a City fan working in Trafford, tells this story:

“I worked in Trafford then, and all the locals were United fans. I was working nights and when Saturday morning arrived a couple of them asked ‘are you going to see the Rags today?’ I didn’t know what that meant, and then they explained that United fans had started to call the team the ‘Rags’ because they were so poor and that their kit looked liked rags. So after that I knew who they meant, but when I mentioned the Rags, they’d go, ‘who the hel_l are you talking about?’ They didn’t like the opposition saying it.”

The poor level of support continued throughout the 1930s. When war broke out in 1939 an immediate ban was placed on the assembly of large crowds. The joke doing the rounds in Manchester was that United would have nothing to worry about.

There’s another great Rags story told by Howard Burr, secretary of the Reddish Blues.

In 1968, Howard’s father was manager of the Umbro factory in Stockport. When United reached the European Cup final they put in a rushed order for the kit. The material his dad used had been lying about in the factory since the place was built and was full of dust and cobwebs.

In fact, some of the machinists were upset it was being used because they used to cut lengths off the roll to take home for dusters.

~ For the record, I should point out that Old Trafford did get the odd huge gate in the 1930s. In March 1939 the ‘Theatre of Empty Seats’ drew a crowd of 76,962 - when Wolves played Grimsby in the FA Cup semi-final.

Posted

Michael Johnson has taken his Manchester City debut in his stride.

The 18-year-old midfielder stepped into the side against Wigan last Saturday after Stuart Pearce was faced with a succession of injuries in the week preceding the game, but speaking to mcfc.co.uk, Michael said he had plenty of notice.

“I first heard about it on Thursday, the Manager told me I had a chance of starting on Saturday, and at first it was a shock to me and I was a bit nervous. It sank in between Thursday and Saturday, and then I was fine.

“Even being on the bench against Sheffield United was a great experience for me, I was a bit nervous about that but as soon as I started against Wigan I lost all my nerves and just got on with it.

“I felt like I was part of things straight away, once we had kicked off it felt like a normal game for me and not a Premiership one, but over the weekend it sank in for me that I really had played for the first team. But, it was a disappointing result and that’s hung over everything like a shadow.”

Michael has carried his impressive form for the Academy side from last year into the reserves this season, so what difference did he notice with the step-up to the Premiership?

“You are up against better players,” says Michael, “but you are playing with better players as well. The game is a bit quicker, it’s a tougher physical challenge as well. I didn’t notice the noise from the crowd until they scored, and it was a horrible feeling, it felt like a lonely place when they scored!”

Overall, Michael is pleased with his progress but now wants to establish himself at senior level.

“I’d like to play again for the first team straight away, anyone would, the first team is where I am trying to get to. That first game can be quite nerve-wracking some lads, but now I have that out of the way and I want to push on.

“In pre-season, playing for the first team was a distant prospect, but to get the call this early is a great feeling and I’m looking forward to kicking on from here.”

  • Like 1
Posted

After making his comeback in the quickly re-arranged Senior Cup tie against Bury, Ben Thatcher could be in line for a return to Stuart Pearce’s squad for Monday’s game against Middlesbrough.

The Manager has spoken at length about Thatcher’s enforced lay off since the now infamous August incident with Pedro Mendes.

“Ben’s worked very hard in the time that he’s been off the field,” said Pearce.

“He’s had no time off, I’ve not said to him, ‘take a week off here and a week off there.’ He’s worked as hard as he possibly could on the training pitch and been good around the place.

“When you’ve got nothing to look forward to at the end of the week it’s very, very difficult as a player. But credit to him he’s grafted away really well and certainly in Ben’s case it’s pleasing to have him back.”

Obviously what happened against Portsmouth that night came up during the chat, and the Manager told us: “I think he’s very disappointed about it, as I’ve said from the outset.

“Speaking with him the morning after I knew exactly the remorse that was in his face and in his heart. He’s got to learn by that and make sure it doesn’t happen again, that’s for sure.”

And with the incident splashed across front and back pages of the papers and the constant stream of replays keeping it fresh in the minds of the public, does Pearce think the excessive coverage got to his full back?

“I’m sure it must have done. I don’t think any individual could have gone under that spotlight and be totally oblivious to it.

“Ben’s got a reputation of being a tough tackling left back and sometimes people perceive you being the same off a football pitch as you are on it – and being totally oblivious to any criticism you might get. That often isn’t the case and isn’t the case with Ben.

“He’s been affected by it but he’s handled it pretty well, but you know the testing time is how he learns by it.”

  • Like 1
Posted

Nedum Onuoha says he is enjoying being part of Manchester City's setup again after finally ending a debilitating run of injuries.

The young defender has not played for Stuart Pearce's side since January after hamstring and calf problems followed hot on the heels of the initial knee ligament damage he sustained in a training ground incident.

Onuoha can now see the light at the end of the tunnel after being named on the bench for the 4-0 defeat to Wigan at the weekend and is expected to continue his comeback by appearing in the reserve game with Bury on Wednesday night.

The highly-rated 19-year-old says he is revelling in the chance to showcase his qualities once more and that he feels fresh and ready to help City redress their poor start to the Premiership season.

"Now that I am back I am really enjoying my football," Onuoha told the club's official website.

"That might sound strange, but I am just enjoying being part of it all again.

"Time out like this makes you realise how much you want to be involved.

"Coming back into training recently almost feels like starting all over again, so I feel a bit fresher than I might have done normally at this stage of the season."

  • Like 1
Posted

I may have to post this on the Goon thread too,...............! :D

Don't worry I'm still on the case for her in United threads too, I have seen it, this is hard work but, hey..... :o

redrus

post-16343-1161953830_thumb.jpg

Posted
Well done Red, you succeeded in the challenge :D

As for Jakki Degg, the cheap tart :o:D

Yeah yeah, I would, you would, full stop.................. :D:D

redrus

Posted

Decent Performance?

Dunnie back to his magnificent self. And Bredbury Blue, What did you think of Dickov?

I think that when he plays his attitude and endeavour rubs off onto others in a huge way. He isnt a world beater but he would be in my side everyweek.

All in all worth staying up for!!!

COME ON YOU BLUES!!!!

Posted
Decent Performance?

Dunnie back to his magnificent self. And Bredbury Blue, What did you think of Dickov?

I think that when he plays his attitude and endeavour rubs off onto others in a huge way. He isnt a world beater but he would be in my side everyweek.

All in all worth staying up for!!!

COME ON YOU BLUES!!!!

Got up at 5am to watch it in fast forward before leaving for work - at 6.15 am, aaargh! So i've only seen what looked like incidents in real time; i'll watch it properly tonight. But even in FF could see that Dunney was outstanding, Sinclair had a better game, Barton was everywhere, Dickov was at his waspish best (why the hel_l was he booked - it was he who was fouled) and even Reyna seemed to add to our passing game, we were clearly up for it and the two post incidents in the last 5 minutes aside, definately deserved the result. Just shows what you can do with more players at your disposal, application as shown by Dunne and Dickov, and dropping people who deserve to be dropped (Jordan, Corradi and Hamann). We need to do something in the next couple of games - lost night down amongst the dead men, win last night comfortable mid table, 3 more points and were way up the table.

:D

A happy man!!! :o

Posted

WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

Posted
WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

Steady on Blue - winning any game these days is a BIG BLOODY DEAL. If the everything is rosy and delusional bit is aimed at my comments, sorry don't see it. They played a lot better than of late and we won but yes i agree we have a huge problem with our toothless attack. I would also agree that it will be another long season, as with all recent ones, until we spend some decent money. Bit early though for the doom and gloom and "ultimately i fear disaterous season" isn't it - you're a City fan, your cup is always half-ful.

Posted
WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

The only person that I have seen lambasting their team is YOU.

I think that most blues including myself are disappointed. I certainly dont have any illusions .

On the other hand I think that some fans like you are never satisfied. If we won the next 3 games 5-0, you would still have some negative crap to say.

We beat Middlesborough. That in itself is a great great result. Look back over the past few years, they are our bogey team. So lighten up and enjoy the victory.

If you are looking for consistency, support another team!!!

This is Man City, Ive followed them all my life, they have NEVER been consistant!!!

Posted

WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

The only person that I have seen lambasting their team is YOU.

I think that most blues including myself are disappointed. I certainly dont have any illusions .

On the other hand I think that some fans like you are never satisfied. If we won the next 3 games 5-0, you would still have some negative crap to say.

We beat Middlesborough. That in itself is a great great result. Look back over the past few years, they are our bogey team. So lighten up and enjoy the victory.

If you are looking for consistency, support another team!!!

I am lambasting City because i dont think their performances are consistantly good.You say Boro are our boogy team for goodness sake man EVERY team is our boggey team-what crap!!You tell me to lighten up and if its consistency im after support a different team-well having supported City for over 30 years thats not an option but your statement is ridiculous and perhaps indicaticve ofd what is wrong with City :o

This is Man City, Ive followed them all my life, they have NEVER been consistant!!!

Posted

WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

The only person that I have seen lambasting their team is YOU.

I think that most blues including myself are disappointed. I certainly dont have any illusions .

On the other hand I think that some fans like you are never satisfied. If we won the next 3 games 5-0, you would still have some negative crap to say.

We beat Middlesborough. That in itself is a great great result. Look back over the past few years, they are our bogey team. So lighten up and enjoy the victory.

If you are looking for consistency, support another team!!!

I am lambasting City because i dont think their performances are consistantly good.You say Boro are our boogy team for goodness sake man EVERY team is our boggey team-what crap!!You tell me to lighten up and if its consistency im after support a different team-well having supported City for over 30 years thats not an option but your statement is ridiculous and perhaps indicaticve ofd what is wrong with City :o

This is Man City, Ive followed them all my life, they have NEVER been consistant!!!

I think you are really a red!!

Posted

WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

The only person that I have seen lambasting their team is YOU.

I think that most blues including myself are disappointed. I certainly dont have any illusions .

On the other hand I think that some fans like you are never satisfied. If we won the next 3 games 5-0, you would still have some negative crap to say.

We beat Middlesborough. That in itself is a great great result. Look back over the past few years, they are our bogey team. So lighten up and enjoy the victory.

If you are looking for consistency, support another team!!!

I am lambasting City because i dont think their performances are consistantly good.You say Boro are our boogy team for goodness sake man EVERY team is our boggey team-what crap!!You tell me to lighten up and if its consistency im after support a different team-well having supported City for over 30 years thats not an option but your statement is ridiculous and perhaps indicaticve ofd what is wrong with City :o

This is Man City, Ive followed them all my life, they have NEVER been consistant!!!

I think you are really a red!!

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Don't you reckon that your team should recorded be on your birth certificate - i.e. your Dad's team. No more glory hunters then, eh!

Posted

WE win 1 game-BIG BLOODY DEAL!!!I am sick of city fans lambasting theur team and then after a win hey presto everything is rosy again.Well sorry to burst your delusional bubble-IT AIN,T!!!We still have a HUGE problem with scoring goals.Fact:Samaras-3 goals:Vassell-0 goals:Corradi-0 goals:Dickov-0 goals.IM afraid after 10 games(11 including the cup debacle)this return is nothing short of A DISGRACE!!and until we get this sorted out City are going to continue to struggle.Dont get me wrong im happy about last nights perfromance and City did show grit and determination,however WE NEED TO DO THIS EVERY GAME!!,otherwise its going to be a very long and ultimately i fear disaterous season.

The only person that I have seen lambasting their team is YOU.

I think that most blues including myself are disappointed. I certainly dont have any illusions .

On the other hand I think that some fans like you are never satisfied. If we won the next 3 games 5-0, you would still have some negative crap to say.

We beat Middlesborough. That in itself is a great great result. Look back over the past few years, they are our bogey team. So lighten up and enjoy the victory.

If you are looking for consistency, support another team!!!

I am lambasting City because i dont think their performances are consistantly good.You say Boro are our boogy team for goodness sake man EVERY team is our boggey team-what crap!!You tell me to lighten up and if its consistency im after support a different team-well having supported City for over 30 years thats not an option but your statement is ridiculous and perhaps indicaticve ofd what is wrong with City :D

This is Man City, Ive followed them all my life, they have NEVER been consistant!!!

I think you are really a red!!

:o Life perhaps would have been kinder if i had been!!

Posted

City's 2006 Accounts Summary

The headline results for the financial year to 31 May 2006 were published on Friday 27 October.

- Total turnover is up £0.9m to £61.8m

- Ticket income up £1.5m due mainly to our FA Cup run

- TV money is down due to the loss of £3.4m compared to the

previous season

- Commercial income is therefore presumably up significantly

- Wages are down to £34.3m (2005 - £37.7m)

- Operating profit is up to £5.1m (2005 - £3.5m)

- There is a £19.1m profit on the sale of players (due to SWP

mainly)

- This gives a bottom line profit of £10m (2005 - loss of £15.6m)

- Net external debt has been reduced to £32.2m (2005 - £38.5m)

- This does not include Wardle/Makin loans, which were £19.2m

in 2005

- No mention made of these loans in this press release

The detailed annual report will be published shortly, when a more detailed analysis will be posted.

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