US Bank won't use SWIFT wants Routing/Transit No.

[cheeryble]

Hi there

I write on behalf of a friend.

He has asked for a money transfer from his Credit Union (but he says it's a proper bank) in the US.

He gave them the Swiftcode for his Thai bank but they have told him they would not use the Swiftcode they want the

Financial Institution Routing Transit Number

He went back to the Thai bank and even after a call to head office they could not give him what he wanted.

I previously have had transfer details on a card from my bank.

Pretty sure it only gave address and Swiftcode.

Anyone can suggest the solution?

5 minute later EDIT

He just sent me this from a web search:

The Siam Commercial Bank PLC (SCB), Bangkok, Thailand, SWIFT code of

SCB is: SICOTHBK

One of SCB's corresponding bank is CITIBANK, routing number #
021000089. SCB's US$ account with CITIBANK is # 10939775.
The Siam Commercial Bank PLC (SCB), Bangkok, Thailand, SWIFT code of
SCB is: SICOTHBK

One of SCB's corresponding bank is CITIBANK, routing number #
021000089. SCB's US$ account with CITIBANK is # 10939775.

If he sends that as part of the instruction.....is it safe?

Edited November 6, 2014 by cheeryble

[Crossy]

Looks link the Credit Union will only deal with US banks the RTN is a US only number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_transit_number

Easy solution (possibly), open a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand and transfer via their New York branch, that should have a suitable RTN.

[slipperylobster]

Which turns out not to be a problem.

Just sign up at XE....same cost.

[partington]

He needs to find the name of his credit union's corresponding bank- a lot of credit unions cannot do direct international transfers by SWIFT, but can send the money via a major US bank with the facility to do SWIFT transfers -the corresponding bank- which then does the SWIFT transfer.

For my credit union, back when I lived in the US, this was Wells Fargo, but all credit unions will have their own particular one . Most counter clerks don't know anything about this as international transfers are beyond their ken (even now fewer than 30% of US citizens have a passport).

It should be possible to ask someone higher up in the credit union the name and details of the corresponding bank though.

Edited November 6, 2014 by partington

[cheeryble]

Looks link the Credit Union will only deal with US banks the RTN is a US only number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_transit_number

Easy solution (possibly), open a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand and transfer via their New York branch, that should have a suitable RTN.

Thx 4 quick answer!

Looks like Crossy

I suggested friend put all that about Citibank details on the transfer request but he says is a brutally simple form (its a navy retirees union or something) and doesn't seem to have more than room for one word kinda boxes

Basically it seems the transfer must go to Citi but he HAS TO give extra instructions for further routing from Citi.

[cheeryble]

I have asked friend.....who has very poor sight.....about room for extra instructions.

He is going to send me the link for the online form.

Stay tuned and thanks to all yes Partington I seem to recall this once happening to me about corresponding banks.

Edited November 6, 2014 by cheeryble

[partington]

I have asked friend.....who has very poor sight.....about room for extra instructions.

He is going to send me the link for the online form.

Stay tuned and thanks to all yes Partington I seem to recall this once happening to me about corresponding banks.

It may be that there is a separate form for international transfers- speaking to someone knowledgeable in his credit union who knows about the concept of corresponding banks may be a lot more help, as they will take him through the procedure.

[cheeryble]

Here's the form it IS brutally simple.

What's more mentioning the 9999$ maximum and MONTHLY amount could it be a domestic transfer form for a pension?

EDIT just asked friend and he said yes this is for a monthly "allotment"

But still no room for details

Edited November 6, 2014 by cheeryble

[manarak]

Here's the form it IS brutally simple.

XFER.JPG

What's more mentioning the 9999$ maximum and MONTHLY amount could it be a domestic transfer form for a pension?

EDIT just asked friend and he said yes this is for a monthly "allotment"

But still no room for details

Your friend probably needs to send written instructions by FAX or letter.

Some banks aren't members of SWIFT and can't send international wires.

This "credit union" seems to be a redneck bank, I bet their database doesn't even have foreign countries, they must come across one international payment every ten years.

The wire needs indeed to be sent to a bank that is able to send the wire, i.e. a correspondent bank, with further instruction as to the recipient bank and final account.

The instructions you posted for the citibank seem fine.

Edited November 6, 2014 by manarak

[JimGant]

(its a navy retirees union or something)

Maybe Navy Federal Credit Union.....

If so, see here: https://www.navyfederal.org/account-management/wire-funds.php

In order to comply with the Dodd Frank Act's Section 1073 on International Remittances, Navy Federal has partnered with Wells Fargo to send international wire transfers and provide foreign currency exchange.

If you wish to wire funds to an account overseas, Navy Federal now is able to send those funds in foreign currency or U.S. dollars. Wires that are payable to a third party and less than $5,000 can be requested by calling 1-888-842-6328. Wires that are payable to a third party and more than $5,000 must be requested in writing, and your signature is required. This can be accomplished by visiting a branch, submitting your request online via e-Message, or sending a fax request to:

Funds Disbursement Section at 703-255-7739 or 1-800-552-1841.

Required information that must be included:

• Sort Code/International Bank Account Number (IBAN)/SWIFT number/CLABE
• International bank name and address
• Bank or account number to deposit funds
• Name and address of beneficiary
• Purpose of payment
• Other information that may be applied depending on the country to which funds are being sent

So, if Navy Federal, the correspondent bank is Wells Fargo. And if below $5000, sounds like a simple phone call to Navy Federal, and $25, should do the trick.

[cheeryble]

Hmmm thanks good information but the corresponding bank is Citi so must be a diffent Union

[JimGant]

Hmmm thanks good information but the corresponding bank is Citi so must be a diffent Union

SCB says Citi is their corresponding bank. But Navy Federal says Wells Fargo is theirs.... Interesting to see who's boss man in this transaction scenario. Anyway, curious to see which credit union we're talking about.

[partington]

Hmmm thanks good information but the corresponding bank is Citi so must be a diffent Union

SCB says Citi is their corresponding bank. But Navy Federal says Wells Fargo is theirs.... Interesting to see who's boss man in this transaction scenario. Anyway, curious to see which credit union we're talking about.

It's the credit union in the US that chooses the correspondent bank: SCB will, of course, accept SWIFT transfers from any international bank that can do them.

The credit union in the US is obliged to use a correspondent bank only because they are unlicensed to do SWIFT transactions. Major Thai banks will accept incoming transfers from all, or mostly all, SWIFT enabled international banks, so they don't have to make any decisions: this part is a passive process.

EDIT: I may be wrong here- I have just noticed that when I sent money from the Co-op Bank in the UK, it was wired through Barclays, so indeed there may be a limited number of banks that Thai banks receive from. They also have accepted transfers from me from HSBC in the past, so they are definitely not limited to one, though.

(Note in the original information it says: " One of SCB's corresponding bank is CITIBANK[...]")

Edited November 6, 2014 by partington

[wooloomooloo]

This is also a handy website for routing numbers.

Just type Citibank in the first box and press search.

http://www.fededirectory.frb.org/agreement.cfm

[Pib]

Some small credit unions/small banks have simple ibanking systems which can do ABA/ACH transfers (i.e., using ABA routing numbers) but can not do SWIFT transfers online. However, to do a SWIFT transfer you have to submit a manual form/go to the branch. The credit will be able to do a SWIFT transfer, but there appears to be some confusion right now between the sender and his credit union.

[cheeryble]

Again thank you all.

Partington I think how it actually works is an intra-country transfer occurs in the US to say Citi with whom someone like SCB has an account specially for these transfers.

Then maybe they don't actually transfer the funds for each transfer individually but send details to release funds from inside Thailand from their kitty.

Best guess.

In any case my friend has somehow tos end more information than there are boxes for on that form.

It looks very much like a form for inside the US.

(Wonder who refs a pension of $9999 per month wish it was me).

[RandomSand]

I'm not American but afaik intra-USA balances are done via Federal Reserve Wire Network (FEDwire) and international balances can only be settled by Bank who have the position of Primary-Dealer in the Federal Reserve System.

So a savings-bank who're clearing FEDwire (for ACH Check etc), but aren't themselves Primary-Dealers, have to use the services of a Correspondence Bank for SWIFT transactions. In effect your savings-bank becomes the customer of the Primary-Dealer.

In a nutshell; A transaction from US Dollars and Thai Bhat is actually a transaction of the foreign currency reserves of each country and must go through the Central Banks of each country. This is why there is a limit on cross-border monetary flows of hard-currency (i.e cash)... it'll not be balanced correctly on the books of the Central Banks.

Primary Dealers List - http://www.ny.frb.org/markets/pridealers_current.html

Primary dealers serve as trading counterparties of the New York Fed in its implementation of monetary policy. This role includes the obligations to: (i) participate consistently in open market operations to carry out U.S. monetary policy pursuant to the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC); and (ii) provide the New York Fed's trading desk with market information and analysis helpful in the formulation and implementation of monetary policy. Primary dealers are also required to participate in all auctions of U.S. government debt and to make reasonable markets for the New York Fed when it transacts on behalf of its foreign official account-holders.

Bank of Nova Scotia, New York Agency
BMO Capital Markets Corp.
BNP Paribas Securities Corp.
Barclays Capital Inc.
Cantor Fitzgerald & Co.
Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC
Daiwa Capital Markets America Inc.
Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc.
Jefferies LLC
J.P. Morgan Securities LLC
Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Incorporated
Mizuho Securities USA Inc.
Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC
Nomura Securities International, Inc.
RBC Capital Markets, LLC
RBS Securities Inc.
SG Americas Securities, LLC
TD Securities (USA) LLC
UBS Securities LLC.

Edited November 6, 2014 by RandomSand

[lannarebirth]

I haven't sent money from a US CU to Thailand, but I have done the opposite many times. Transfer Instructions look something like this:

WIRE TO: Intermediary Bank , ABA # ***********

ACCOUNT HOLDER: Your Credit Union

ACCOUNT # : Your Credit Union's Account Number At Intermediary Bank *************

FOR FURTHER CREDIT TO: CU Member And Account Number

I would think if you were to substitute SCB's Account Information for that of the Credit Union's with further credit to SCB account holder name/number it is likely that the wire transfer would go alright. Confirm with credit Union of course.

Edited November 6, 2014 by lannarebirth

[Langsuan Man]

Here is the form that my US Credit Union uses to send funds to my SCB account in Thailand. Note the bank information, including CitiBank as the correspondent bank. They will still send the wire so long as all the pertinent information is provided and don't require their actual form to be used

[JimGant]

Note the bank information, including CitiBank as the correspondent bank.

Hmmmm. Is that optional -- or mandatory? Seems to make more sense what partington said:

It's the credit union in the US that chooses the correspondent bank: SCB will, of course, accept SWIFT transfers from any international bank that can do them.

[Chwooly]

Looks link the Credit Union will only deal with US banks the RTN is a US only number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_transit_number

Easy solution (possibly), open a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand and transfer via their New York branch, that should have a suitable RTN.

Thx 4 quick answer!

Looks like Crossy

I suggested friend put all that about Citibank details on the transfer request but he says is a brutally simple form (its a navy retirees union or something) and doesn't seem to have more than room for one word kinda boxes

Basically it seems the transfer must go to Citi but he HAS TO give extra instructions for further routing from Citi.

Citibank does have a branch in BKK at Asok, Central World and Silom. He could just open an account with them and save the hassle

[partington]

I think the original question has been answered in a way that will enable the person concerned to do the transfer:

1. He needs to get the name and ABA routing details of the Navy Credit Union's correspondent bank for international SWIFT transfers, by directly speaking to the credit union, and escalating the call until he finds a person who knows the procedure, and can provide this information.

2. He needs to do the transfer by fax or in writing, in a format that allows him to include the ABA routing details and account no of the intermediary correspondent bank, as well as the SWIFT code and account no./name of his final Thai bank destination. He will have to accept that he will not be able to use the existing form for this.

[Sophon]

(its a navy retirees union or something)

Maybe Navy Federal Credit Union.....

If so, see here: https://www.navyfederal.org/account-management/wire-funds.php

In order to comply with the Dodd Frank Act's Section 1073 on International Remittances, Navy Federal has partnered with Wells Fargo to send international wire transfers and provide foreign currency exchange.

If you wish to wire funds to an account overseas, Navy Federal now is able to send those funds in foreign currency or U.S. dollars. Wires that are payable to a third party and less than $5,000 can be requested by calling 1-888-842-6328. Wires that are payable to a third party and more than $5,000 must be requested in writing, and your signature is required. This can be accomplished by visiting a branch, submitting your request online via e-Message, or sending a fax request to:

Funds Disbursement Section at 703-255-7739 or 1-800-552-1841.

Required information that must be included:

• Sort Code/International Bank Account Number (IBAN)/SWIFT number/CLABE
• International bank name and address
• Bank or account number to deposit funds
• Name and address of beneficiary
• Purpose of payment
• Other information that may be applied depending on the country to which funds are being sent

So, if Navy Federal, the correspondent bank is Wells Fargo. And if below $5000, sounds like a simple phone call to Navy Federal, and $25, should do the trick.

In this case Wells Fargo Bank doesn't act as a correspondent bank but rather as processing bank because Navy Federal is not a primary member of SWIFT. For many smaller banks/credit unions with little international business it would be to expensive to develop international transfer systems and become a member of SWIFT, so instead they enter into an agreement with a large bank in their country to process their international transfers for them.

A correspondent bank is used when two financial institutions with the capability to send/receive SWIFT messages don't have accounts with each other, so the transfer has to be covered in a third-party bank (the correspondent bank). Sending bank will still send a SWIFT message to receiving bank informing them about the transfer, but the funds will be transferred to the account receiving bank has with the correspondent bank.

For some reason (some/most?) U.S. Banks seem to be the only ones requiring their customer to do the leg-work finding the information about receiving bank's correspondent bank and account number. Banks in other countries manage to do this themselves by maintaining a correspondent bank register containing information about where foreign banks want their transfers to be covered.

Sophon

[cheeryble]

Thanks to all.

Friend discovered BKKBank is the only one with a branch in US, so he is having it transferred via them to a BKKBank account.

Job done, thanks.