Just got kicked out of thai with valid visa

[beano2274]

I was here for 8 years on marriage visa but got divorced so i applied for student visa. I dont attend classes as i already speak thai good enough and that was fine until recently. They said they believed that i was working here. I dont work really in thailand i have income from a business in HK. My Ed visa was 7 or 8 month old. Im on the airplane now leaving for Paris.

Sorry but the point of an ED Visa is to attend classes, obviously you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classess

[brianp0803]

I also worry the abusers will cause tighter requirements, and more proof for honest people.

I don't understand people in early years of retirement unable to meet the savings financial requirements unless they have the required monthly pension.

unless adequate pension, don't initially retired people have savings for at least 10-15 years of living?

[stevenl]

Very interesting thread. Makes me wonder which group of expats will be next to face stringent crackdowns. Retirement maybe? All those alcoholic wrecks living on pensions in Pattaya and elsewhere, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the financial requirements are raised significantly in the near future.

You're very late to the party on that one - we had a ding-dong battle here a couple of months back between the under-50s and those of us fortunate enough to be able to live here on the basis of retirement, and the 'significant rise in the financial requirements' portent of doom was thrown at the latter group with monotonous regularity. The big difference between the other visa classes and the retirement extension is simple : how many employers in Thailand (be they Thai or foreigner) do you think would be willing to hire a Farang over the age of 50 ?

In a country where the newspapers have absolutely no problem running ads for teaching jobs that specify the ideal candidate as a female under 25, I just dont see the same problems for Immigration with the older generation, and definitely not the stereotypical Pattaya barfly you've nominated. The TV 'jury' seems to have tried and convicted the OP as guilty of staying in Thailand under false pretences, just as it tried and convicted a host of others for abusing the Tourist Visa - in both cases, we can thank the people who have repeatedly abused both methods of entry over the last 2 decades for this crackdown. The implementation has been flawed, but several of us have sailed through Immigation in recent weeks so there must be an element of 'wrong place, wrong time' in some of these tales of woe.

FWIW, the only surefire method I know of for under-50s who cant find a legit job in Thailand - and the visa/work permit to go with it - is the Elite Card and that's a whole other can of worms. If you think this issue gets people fired up, just tell them they need to pay 500K+ to be able to park themselves on a Thai beach longterm ....

I'm fairly new to this forum so there have been countless prior threads I have no knowledge of.

Myself I'm on annual retirement extensions so I certainly do not wish to see changes coming in but I fear they will. I have no doubt Thai authorities would like to rid the country of the great majority of all these farang that have set up home here. First to go the border runners. Next the Ed visa crowd. There are many retirement people they could get rid of fast by raising the financial requirements considerably. If one had to show 1.5mil in a Thai bank, how many pension guys could do that?

I honestly hope I'm wrong but I have a bad feeling that sometime in 2015 we'll see a stiff rise in financial requirements plus demands for further paperwork when applying for retirement extensions. We're going to see a lot of people moving over to Cambodia next year.

I wopuld not be afraid of that at all.

It is fairly simple what they're doing: are you a tourist, enter on a tourist visa or visa exempt, are you studying here, so temporary stay, do so on an ED visa, are you doing real studies here, do so on an ED visa and you'll get extensions etc., are you living here, do so on a non-immigrant visa.

Op was living here on an ED visa, the vast, vast majority of other people having problems are not here on the correct visa. Unfortunately there will always be some people who are an unintended victim, and others who slip through the mazes. But to me the intentions are clear.

[crickets]

Should be able to read and write some thai after 3 months. No doubt he hardly went to class. Even change to private for 1 hour a week and u can learn some basic things.

[csabo]

Johnny BKK post # 88.

I was here for 8 years on marriage visa but got divorced so i applied for student visa. I dont attend classes as i already speak thai good enough and that was fine until recently. They said they believed that i was working here. I dont work really in thailand i have income from a business in HK. My Ed visa was 7 or 8 month old. Im on the airplane now leaving for Paris.

Well there is the proof that the deportee was abusing the system and has been caught and now paying the price.

Here for eight years and still couldn't or wouldn't get a proper visa., many options out there to take the right road.

I agree he played the system and had a long enough run. If he had just studied 20 minutes a day in 8 years he would have breezed the test. But what options are you referring to for the "right road". If he's under 50, he can't retire here. He got burned in a Thai marriage before so not gonna go that route again. His income comes from outside Thailand (and I assume he can prove it) therefore no reason to go the Thai business route. Investment visa costs insane money, Elite is questionable and not cheap. So what was he supposed to do other than ED? Tell me, I am all ears.

[impulse]

...you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classes

Not to get too far off track, but is that correct? Schools have to report (lack of) attendance to immigration?

[MrWorldwide]

I'm fairly new to this forum so there have been countless prior threads I have no knowledge of.

Myself I'm on annual retirement extensions so I certainly do not wish to see changes coming in but I fear they will. I have no doubt Thai authorities would like to rid the country of the great majority of all these farang that have set up home here. First to go the border runners. Next the Ed visa crowd. There are many retirement people they could get rid of fast by raising the financial requirements considerably. If one had to show 1.5mil in a Thai bank, how many pension guys could do that?

I honestly hope I'm wrong but I have a bad feeling that sometime in 2015 we'll see a stiff rise in financial requirements plus demands for further paperwork when applying for retirement extensions. We're going to see a lot of people moving over to Cambodia next year.

And the 'Where to next ?' question is also asked here regularly, mainly in GT. I think if it came down to it, I'd take my chances in the PI over Cambodia even with the dire warnings re personal safety and the fact that it's considerably less developed than Thailand. Hopefully it wont come to that, but nothing stays the same forever.

[impulse]

...So what was he supposed to do other than ED? Tell me, I am all ears.

Move somewhere he's entitled to live?

Edited November 29, 2014 by impulse

[CRUNCHER]

There is no law requiring you to fly back to your country - so at least you can contest that part, but you have to be adamant about talking to the supervisor. As in your case there is no extradition happening - just a refusal to enter the country. Don't be rude or condescending with the officials, just state that there indeed are laws that do not require you to travel to the country.

Perhaps, but no airline is going to fly someone who has he risk of being turned around and the airline is liable for flying home. As such, it sounds like the EU or bust, unless the OP gets lucky.

That is just it. Immigration know that no airline will sell him a ticket. Depending on his status in Hong Kong that might have been an alternative and perhaps Immigration should have allowed him to try and get a ticket there.

At the end of the day OP brought this on himself by abusing his visa (not going to classes). A lesson for others to learn. The sad thing is that abuses like this will result in genuine students getting a hard time if they are slow learners. Who knows, too much abise like this might result in ED visas being scrapped altogether.

[ubonjoe]

...you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classes

Not to get too far off track, but is that correct? Schools have to report (lack of) attendance to immigration?

There would be no reporting until the next extension is due. But immigration has been known to pay visits to schools to check attendance records.

[csabo]

Johnny, I would have asked to see a supervisor, to see where he would stand - it's totally ok to do so. Sorry to hear you got refused. Btw which airport was this?

I know in the USA with a proper visa of any kind (not the VWP though) you can appeal the decision and take it to a judge if DHS refuse you entry. Does Thailand have an appeals process also??

I'd have asked to speak to a supervisor, sorry to hear you got stung, 6 months is not enough to learn a language like a native speaker.

Yes there indeed is the possibility to appeal, and negotiate with the higher ups - but now Bkk Johnny revealed that he indeed didn't have the qualifications required for the visa he was entering with, so it's kind of moot point - too bad for the guy as travel isn't inexpensive.

Out of curiousity what are the qualifications required for an ED Visa? I was under the impression you had to show you actually had booked the education course via a letter for getting the visa and that was it? I never did the ED Visa route though.

Why don't you type "what are the qualifications required for an ED Visa?" in the search box at the top right side of the page you are looking at right now?

[brianp0803]

...you got caught out as McWalen had to inform immigration who has a visa and is not attending classes

Not to get too far off track, but is that correct? Schools have to report (lack of) attendance to immigration?

Part of the 90 day extension paperwork from the school is an attendance report.

Non attending students, if done properly, would not get an extension.

The Op posted he didn't go to classes because he had been married to a Thai before but now divorced and spoke Thai already.

But he was able to get 2 extension.

[DerekMarshall]

Immigration act attached. in both Thai and English.

It comes in handy.

Immigration act 2014 English.pdf

Immigration act 2014 thai.pdf

Edited November 29, 2014 by DerekMarshall

[impulse]

I also worry the abusers will cause tighter requirements, and more proof for honest people.

I don't understand people in early years of retirement unable to meet the savings financial requirements unless they have the required monthly pension.

unless adequate pension, don't initially retired people have savings for at least 10-15 years of living?

It's pretty common to "retire" nowadays with not much cash in the bank, but lots of assets that can be converted to cash, along with some residual monthly income (aside from a pension that may come many years later).

Lots of guys just rent out their homes back home and can live here quite comfortably on the rent alone.

Since many pensions don't kick in until age 60, 62, 65 or later, the lagtime between Thailand's gracious 50 year age hurdle and a pension is too long for many to wait for their dream of living in paradise. Can't say I blame them, though I don't share that particular dream.

Edited November 29, 2014 by impulse

[brianp0803]

I feel schools should be fined heavily for every student the school reports is attending but is not really attending.

Probably less than 1% of non attending people will be caught by immigration.

There is no punishment for the school enabling this behavior.

[Soutpeel]

While the OP admitted that he was on an ED visa for 7-8 months at and a major language school and not attending classes, the punishment seems severe.

People can clear 11 year overstay with a 20,000 baht fine and immediately apply for double tourist visa and get the visa.

Why an Ed abuser would get this treatment?

Something were not being told?

Maybe just a precursor of things to come, if the overstay banning rules get approved suspect going to be as lot of upset little bunnies posting on TV of how unfair it is they have been banned for such a "minor" offence of overstaying

[Soutpeel]

Immigration act attached. in both Thai and English.

It comes in handy.

Why you Rumpole of the Bailey or something ? typically getting into "legal " arguments with immigration and customs officers does usually go too well for the person waving laws in their faces

[ubonjoe]

A post with broken quotes has been removed. Try again but remember 4 is the max number of quotes you can do.

[DerekMarshall]

I feel schools should be fined heavily for every student the school reports is attending but is not really attending.

Probably less than 1% of non attending people will be caught by immigration.

There is no punishment for the school enabling this behavior.

The Schools by processing the documents for a visa extension for non attending students by definition and comiting fraud. Not often we hear about schools being dealt with in regards to that.

Edited November 29, 2014 by DerekMarshall

[totally thaied up]

Learning Thai for some is not easy. I tried learning for a very long time (almost 18 months) in a good school but in the end, it was not from a lack of trying, but the fact I have no abilities at all to learn Thai. I have had some private lessons recently (over the last 3 months) an about all I can do is order a simple meal, get/give basic directions, find a toilet, count to a 1000, understand money, hello, good bye an that I feel sick. I can read all the Thai alphabet an vowels, but cannot put it together. Some here might think I am dumb as I cannot get it all together but I am well educated.

Some of us just cannot learn. I really do want too learn but maybe, a learning difficulty I had as a child (I could not speak English till I almost 5 years old) is to play part of it. I have seen the running of these schools an somethings I agree with, others I don't. It is very frustrating when you want to do something but you cannot.

I am no longer under a ED visa here as I fell very ill an had to go back home. I was going home in fact when my last ED was to finish; just unlucky I got sick.

I have 4 more years till I can retire here an that is my goal. I am on a pension now, do not work an visit Thailand as a tourist, spending 3-4 months a year in my country. The ED visa is for study an those that work here using this as a ruse, well have cooked there own goose.

Looks like the OP has a history here an maybe a jealous ex-wife. Feel sorry for him but if he is lucky enough to be able to speak Thai, he should have been going to school to learn to write/read. I wonder how he got around his attendence records if he was going? Is that how he got caught out?

[DerekMarshall]

Immigration act attached. in both Thai and English.

It comes in handy.

Why you Rumpole of the Bailey or something ? typically getting into "legal " arguments with immigration and customs officers does usually go too well for the person waving laws in their faces

No, Nobody other than yourself Soutpeel mentioned waving of laws in faces or arguments.

Yes it has gone down, and does go down well out in the sticks Where Immigration officers may not be so familiar with certain things. If I had nt done so, I have walked away with just a 60 day extention and not a year long extention.

So yes it does come in handy, simply for (respectful) communication purposes, makes sure we are on the same page so to speak and fully understand each other in what is/could be a complicated matter.

Are you saying it is wrong for long term residents like the OP to be informed, well informed of what current immigration laws are?

I posted the attachments for that very reason.

[ubonjoe]

I feel schools should be fined heavily for every student the school reports is attending but is not really attending.

Probably less than 1% of non attending people will be caught by immigration.

There is no punishment for the school enabling this behavior.

The Schools by processing the documents for a visa extension for non attending students by definition and comiting fraud. Not often we hear about schools being dealt with in regards to that.

He may of been (not confirmed yet) on a multiple entry ED visa not 90 day extensions of stay, That means all he got from the school was documents to get that visa, So that would explain why he was getting away with not attending classes.

[Anthony5]

I feel schools should be fined heavily for every student the school reports is attending but is not really attending.

Probably less than 1% of non attending people will be caught by immigration.

There is no punishment for the school enabling this behavior.

The Schools by processing the documents for a visa extension for non attending students by definition and comiting fraud. Not often we hear about schools being dealt with in regards to that.

He may of been (not confirmed yet) on a multiple entry ED visa not 90 day extensions of stay, That means all he got from the school was documents to get that visa, So that would explain why he was getting away with not attending classes.

The OP claimed he had a re-entry permit, which he wouldn't need if he was on a multiple entry visa.

[brianp0803]

Learning Thai for some is not easy. I tried learning for a very long time (almost 18 months) in a good school but in the end, it was not from a lack of trying, but the fact I have no abilities at all to learn Thai. I have had some private lessons recently (over the last 3 months) an about all I can do is order a simple meal, get/give basic directions, find a toilet, count to a 1000, understand money, hello, good bye an that I feel sick. I can read all the Thai alphabet an vowels, but cannot put it together. Some here might think I am dumb as I cannot get it all together but I am well educated.

Some of us just cannot learn. I really do want too learn but maybe, a learning difficulty I had as a child (I could not speak English till I almost 5 years old) is to play part of it. I have seen the running of these schools an somethings I agree with, others I don't. It is very frustrating when you want to do something but you cannot.

I am no longer under a ED visa here as I fell very ill an had to go back home. I was going home in fact when my last ED was to finish; just unlucky I got sick.

I have 4 more years till I can retire here an that is my goal. I am on a pension now, do not work an visit Thailand as a tourist, spending 3-4 months a year in my country. The ED visa is for study an those that work here using this as a ruse, well have cooked there own goose.

Looks like the OP has a history here an maybe a jealous ex-wife. Feel sorry for him but if he is lucky enough to be able to speak Thai, he should have been going to school to learn to write/read. I wonder how he got around his attendence records if he was going? Is that how he got caught out?

I have friends studying Thai at one of the major language schools. They are a novelty since they are not not on Ed Visa.

They tell me the majority of visa students joke that their attendance report shows perfect attendance for all classes(except when traveling outside Thailand) even though they attend only 60% of classes.

Unless changed recently, attendance reports are made by the front desk staff with no records of actual attendance.

[ubonjoe]

He may of been (not confirmed yet) on a multiple entry ED visa not 90 day extensions of stay, That means all he got from the school was documents to get that visa, So that would explain why he was getting away with not attending classes.

The OP claimed he had a re-entry permit, which he wouldn't need if he was on a multiple entry visa.

He just wrote he had a visa with a valid re-entry. He never mentioned an extension or a re-entry permit.

[Anthony5]

He may of been (not confirmed yet) on a multiple entry ED visa not 90 day extensions of stay, That means all he got from the school was documents to get that visa, So that would explain why he was getting away with not attending classes.

The OP claimed he had a re-entry permit, which he wouldn't need if he was on a multiple entry visa.

He just wrote he had a visa with a valid re-entry. He never mentioned an extension or a re-entry permit.

This is exactly what he said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780216-just-got-kicked-out-of-thai-with-valid-visa/?p=8736425

The important thing is not my situation here but the fact that with an ed visa 7 month old if you speak thai with 9K baht in your pocket and credit cards you can get refused entry. And yes i had proper re entry permit.

A 90 day extension doesn't get 7 month old if I understand it correctly.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Anthony5

[ubonjoe]

He just wrote he had a visa with a valid re-entry. He never mentioned an extension or a re-entry permit.

This is exactly what he said.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780216-just-got-kicked-out-of-thai-with-valid-visa/?p=8736425

The important thing is not my situation here but the fact that with an ed visa 7 month old if you speak thai with 9K baht in your pocket and credit cards you can get refused entry. And yes i had proper re entry permit.

A 90 day extension doesn't get 7 month old if I understand it correctly.

I quoted what he wrote in his OP.

The only way he could have a visa that was 7 months old would be a multiple entry.

Extensions are only for 90 days.

We may have more info later on what exactly he has. I have some unconfirmed condidential info he had a multiple entry visa.

[toooa]

I wonder how they think this kind of thing is helping the country...

[FredNL]

So JohnnyBKK will become JohnnyParis ???

If he came from England there was more to worry about...

[thailiketoo]

I wonder how they think this kind of thing is helping the country...

The poster or Immigration?