Koh Tao: Thai court charges pair over murders of British backpackers

[chooka]

So the court charges them and passes judgement

Normally the police charge, prosecution submits the case then courts decide if sufficient evidence to go for trial then the case is heard. Courts are the last step in the judicial process and don't act as informant (laying charges) and hearing the charges laid by the informant.

[fxe1200]

Nobody here seems to even consider a possibility that these two may actually be guilty....

Why should they?? The main suspects left the island during the same night, or early morning, and the two Burmese went back to work as ever, as far as I know, for a minimum of two days before they were arrested. The only thing they are guilty of, is the fact, that they may have been asked and forced to carry the dead bodies to their "final" location on the beach. Just tell me, if you would kill somebody, would you stand beside and wait for the BIB to arrest you?

[dunroaming]

Move along please, no justice to be seen here, move along...

I lived in Thailand for fourteen years, I have a Thai wife, my brother-in-law is a policeman and my sister-in-law manages a local government office. Therefore I have witnessed the fruits of the corruption from close quarters. The amount of "tea money" they have ferreted away is staggering.

We have a son who was born in Chiang Mai and for that reason four years ago we moved to the UK so that he could get a proper education. There is no way I would move back to Thailand because I have become so disillusioned and sickened by the greed and total disregard for the care or rights of others.

I am very aware that some of the members here have a different view and their experience of living in Thailand is all positive. I respect that point of view completely and I know that there are many good people out there. However for me it has sunk into the mire and the stink is overwhelming.

[catweazle]

In all our outrage here, let us not forget the families of Hannah and David.

First their loved ones are brutally murdered, and now they have to follow the incompetence and outright lies from the RTP.

Hope they have the strength to find closure within themselves!!

As much as I sympathise and appreciate the parents' grief, as much do I disapprove their silence. They had a chance to speak up when it became clear that this investigation is going down south and that it would end in a stitchup, but they did absolutely nothing!

Thus, if the Burmese boys truly are innocent and get sentenced to death or serve life in prison for a crime they did not commit, David's and Hannah's parents are - in part - responsible for this injustice. They didn't "have to" follow the incompetence and outright lies, they could have stopped this corrupted sharade by speaking up in public and demand an independent investigation when there was still time to do so. They failed!

[Anthony5]

Nobody here seems to even consider a possibility that these two may actually be guilty....

Why should they?? The main suspects left the island during the same night, or early morning, and the two Burmese went back to work as ever, as far as I know, for a minimum of two days before they were arrested. The only thing they are guilty of, is the fact, that they may have been asked and forced to carry the dead bodies to their "final" location on the beach. Just tell me, if you would kill somebody, would you stand beside and wait for the BIB to arrest you?

No, I would flee and attract the attention to me. Right?

Hey wait, wasn't one of them arrested while he was fleeing?

[Usual Suspect]

So what are the Burmese government saying/doing about this..?

Do they care? Would they dare to threaten Thailand with any form of sanctions?

We do not seem to be hearing much said about this case from both the UK & Myanmar authorities..??

It's as if the RTP are doing a great job of keeping this case on it's own doorstep..& can happily proceed without any outside interference.

[fxe1200]

Why anyone would want to live in a country with the disgusting and corrupt systems they have, is beyond belief. Seems the expats that live there will put up with anything.

In some ways, Thailand is more democratic than the West.

In America, you have to own a giant corporation just to afford to bribe a congressman. Here, anyone with a little tea money is good to go.

I stay here, because I have some obligations to perform in this country. Otherwise I would have been gone a long time ago.

[ldiablo]

I am not a police officer nor am I a lawyer,prosecutor or judge or do I even know the accused and I don't believe that anyone of you are either. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe just maybe these two suspects actually did commit this heinous crime. It certainly is a possibility. What real facts do we have other that unreliable sources on Thai Visa and other media outlets to determine whether or not these guys are guilty. If they are let them fry and if not let them go but who are we to be judge and jury. We don't know the facts. If anyone here can supply actual facts regarding this case then produce them. Not your our circumstancial evidence but actual facts.

[catweazle]

Falaongjim: "I hope the international press is allowed to be there to film and write."

Keep on dreaming! They will do all this behind closed doors and sentence the patsies to death a.s.a.p. to make all of this go away once and for all. The 120m THB that (according to word on the street) were paid to the RTP is grease enough to include the judge as well I guess.

[falangjim]

...once again from the beginning. What stupid MOTIVE could those two have had to kill the two backpackers? (Sorry if perhaps somebody brought this up already...)

There is no motive. The Thais in typical fashion said something like 'oh, the two boys saw a couple making out and felt horny.' Anyone who has lived here for some time could recognize this explanation was being fabricated from an uneducated Thai, which is what the RTP are: uneducated or under-educated. Anyone who has taken a 101 Sociology class knows that rape is not about lust or feeling horny, but about abusive power. I suppose the RTP can now claim the B2 wanted David's phone and sunglasses. Nice touch by the RTP to throw that trivial fact into the mix along with murder.

You are right in asking your question because there is no real plausible answer to it. There is no motive and it's been a stitch up for quite a while now.

[fxe1200]

Nobody here seems to even consider a possibility that these two may actually be guilty....

Why should they?? The main suspects left the island during the same night, or early morning, and the two Burmese went back to work as ever, as far as I know, for a minimum of two days before they were arrested. The only thing they are guilty of, is the fact, that they may have been asked and forced to carry the dead bodies to their "final" location on the beach. Just tell me, if you would kill somebody, would you stand beside and wait for the BIB to arrest you?

No, I would flee and attract the attention to me. Right?

Hey wait, wasn't one of them arrested while he was fleeing?

One suspect fled and was located by the police. They did ask him, what he is doing in Bangkok, but they did not ask him, what he was doing on September 21, how come?? Even his mobile telephone data was not checked (By today you can tell exactly which transmitting pole you use, when you are using your mobile, but as far I know, the data will be erased after three months).

[ThaiUser]

Post #102

The problem is that nobody seems to know what the real facts are and that includes all parties involved including the police. A proper investigation from the start, with sealing off the crime scene and ensuring that forensic evidence was not destroyed would have helped a great deal.

I hold no convictions about the two subjects in question - guilty or innocent - but looking at the process of gathering the evidence makes me feel sorry as a Thai.

[MaxLee]

So what are the Burmese government saying/doing about this..?

Do they care? Would they dare to threaten Thailand with any form of sanctions?

We do not seem to be hearing much said about this case from both the UK & Myanmar authorities..??

It's as if the RTP are doing a great job of keeping this case on it's own doorstep..& can happily proceed without any outside interference.

The government of Burma has not enough power in this case, simple as that,... this is Thai territory, like it or not...

[ThaiUser]

My reply should have been gone to post #101

Sorry!

[Anthony5]

Nobody here seems to even consider a possibility that these two may actually be guilty....

Why should they?? The main suspects left the island during the same night, or early morning, and the two Burmese went back to work as ever, as far as I know, for a minimum of two days before they were arrested. The only thing they are guilty of, is the fact, that they may have been asked and forced to carry the dead bodies to their "final" location on the beach. Just tell me, if you would kill somebody, would you stand beside and wait for the BIB to arrest you?

No, I would flee and attract the attention to me. Right?

Hey wait, wasn't one of them arrested while he was fleeing?

One suspect fled and was located by the police. They did ask him, what he is doing in Bangkok, but they did not ask him, what he was doing on September 21, how come?? Even his mobile telephone data was not checked (By today you can tell exactly which transmitting pole you use, when you are using your mobile, but as far I know, the data will be erased after three months).

I think the Thai police may have failed to inform you about every step they made in the investigation. Is there some credible news source that say they indeed didn't check his phone data?

I was talking about the Burmese suspect that was caught on a ferry somewhere in the South of Thailand.

[lil fluffy clouds]

May the judges be judged in time to come (aka facing the Big Cheese upstairs).

The devil doesn't suffer in hell.

[thailandchilli]

Post #102

The problem is that nobody seems to know what the real facts are and that includes all parties involved including the police. A proper investigation from the start, with sealing off the crime scene and ensuring that forensic evidence was not destroyed would have helped a great deal.

I hold no convictions about the two subjects in question - guilty or innocent - but looking at the process of gathering the evidence makes me feel sorry as a Thai.

Thank you for your honest opinion. We know there are a lot of genuine Thai's out there that feel the same as you, the one's who have carried out this investigation however are not and they give good Thai's and the whole Thai nation a bad name.

[Camilo Diaz]

...once again from the beginning. What stupid MOTIVE could those two have had to kill the two backpackers? (Sorry if perhaps somebody brought this up already...)

A very good question!!

The first thing a investigator with half a brain would look into was a possible motive.

Possible motives would be:

Theft. Who in their right mind would attack a wellbuild 6 foot+ English man to steal a phone??

Rape. As above. Plus the guys could probably get laid in their camp for 50 baht!!

There is absolutely no motive, that is why I keep insisting: The B2 are innocent!!

Plus the animal that did this atrocity is a complete psico-killer with no humanity what so ever, I doubt a man that takes the risk of working illegally in a country like Thailand just to be able to send money to their parents will be able of such thing...

[Mooner]

I am not a police officer nor am I a lawyer,prosecutor or judge or do I even know the accused and I don't believe that anyone of you are either. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe just maybe these two suspects actually did commit this heinous crime. It certainly is a possibility. What real facts do we have other that unreliable sources on Thai Visa and other media outlets to determine whether or not these guys are guilty. If they are let them fry and if not let them go but who are we to be judge and jury. We don't know the facts. If anyone here can supply actual facts regarding this case then produce them. Not your our circumstancial evidence but actual facts.

Of course they could of! But alone?

Its been said many times before but how could these 2 boys over power someone over 6ft?

The only answer has been that he was on top of Hannah and they hit him from behind. Even in this scenario surely Hannah would of screamed!

Anyway we know David fought back due to the bruises on his hands. Added to this is the wounds on his face and neck.

So if he was tussling with the boys what was stopping Hannah from screaming or running away?

Lets propose that he was hit with the hoe and then became unconscious. The boys then set upon Hannah. David wakes up and starts to fight them. He gets stabbed or whatever to cause those wounds on his face/neck.(Again what is Hannah doing?) They over power him and then dragged him to the sea. Then these boys go back to bed and have no marks on them despite being involved in a double murder hours earlier.

.

[lil fluffy clouds]

May the judges be judged in time to come (aka facing the Big Cheese upstairs).

The devil doesn't suffer in hell.

[robertthebruce]

I just look at that two, and think ''There is no way they did that'' they look too innocent and , look as if they would struggle to fight there way out of a paper bag...

I hope the UK steps in with some Evidence...

whole case, stinks from day one..

[Torrens54]

This BBC Correspondent, ....... Head, has been around SE Asia for some time and sadly tends to inject his own comments into news reports, rather than simply REPORTING on the facts of the matter.

[Chris Lawrence]

https://twitter.com/pakhead/status/540380383066333185

So the caption should read:

"No we were over there"

"No you weren't you two were over there?" That's what we forced you to say in the confessions"

[Anthony5]

This BBC Correspondent, ....... Head, has been around SE Asia for some time and sadly tends to inject his own comments into news reports, rather than simply REPORTING on the facts of the matter.

I think what you really have in mind is that JH's comments sadly don't concur with yours.

[ThaiUser]

Post #102

The problem is that nobody seems to know what the real facts are and that includes all parties involved including the police. A proper investigation from the start, with sealing off the crime scene and ensuring that forensic evidence was not destroyed would have helped a great deal.

I hold no convictions about the two subjects in question - guilty or innocent - but looking at the process of gathering the evidence makes me feel sorry as a Thai.

Thank you for your honest opinion. We know there are a lot of genuine Thai's out there that feel the same as you, the one's who have carried out this investigation however are not and they give good Thai's and the whole Thai nation a bad name.

I have lived for some time in the UK before returning to Thailand and to be honest miscarriages of justice or police falsifying evidence is not only restricted to Thailand as I noticed. But Thailand as it seems to me is under far greater scrutiny as countries that claim to be a haven for justice and the rule of law.

[iReason]

Nobody here seems to even consider a possibility that these two may actually be guilty....

Why should they?? The main suspects left the island during the same night, or early morning, and the two Burmese went back to work as ever, as far as I know, for a minimum of two days before they were arrested. The only thing they are guilty of, is the fact, that they may have been asked and forced to carry the dead bodies to their "final" location on the beach. Just tell me, if you would kill somebody, would you stand beside and wait for the BIB to arrest you?

No, I would flee and attract the attention to me. Right?

Hey wait, wasn't one of them arrested while he was fleeing?

"...wasn't one of them arrested while he was fleeing?

No.

And in fact, the third guy was never arrested.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/03/burmese-men-arrested-murder-british-backpackers-thailand

[tonypace02]

Not one person on this forum has brought forth any evidence whatsoever that indicates an impropriety has taken place in the police investigation. The Thai government has gone out of its way to open the investigation to foreign agencies and not one of those agencies found any facts to support the claim that the confessions were gotten by any means unacceptable in any country in the world, including the UK, USA, and AUS. Police regularly threaten and lie to suspects. One of the most common events in a police investigation occurs when a suspect confesses then, after the first visit by his lawyer, recants. That is why in most countries, the confession without supporting evidence, is not sufficient to convict.

I am fully convinced that the police have not made scapegoats of the men on trial. Had they done so they would have limited the number of suspects to one. Any police organization knows that the difficulty of getting a conviction in a murder case increases with the square of the number of suspects. Not knowing all the evidence, I cannot say if they are innocent or guilty. But the forensic evidence, coupled with the witness statements and the circumstantial evidence certainly makes them indictable. If they are innocent, I hope they are freed. If they are guilty, I hope they are punished.

My personal experience with Thai courts has taught me that, if you are not there for political reasons, you will most likely get a fair trial whether you are Thai or foreign.

[Graham8888]

"The indictment was unexpectedly brought forward by three hours, meaning the suspects did not have time to be brought from prison to hear the charges,"

What?

The defendants have not heard the accusation?

A technical trial error?

Indeed a valid question, which someone with knowledge about Thai law can answer.

Another unanswered question is why there was a need to bring it 3 hours forward.

Brought forward 3 hours - had to get to the bank before it closed to withdraw some petty ( criminal) cash ?!!

Disgusting - just shows they don't care what anyone thinks - on a par with some South American justice systems

[catweazle]

I am not a police officer nor am I a lawyer,prosecutor or judge or do I even know the accused and I don't believe that anyone of you are either. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe just maybe these two suspects actually did commit this heinous crime. It certainly is a possibility. What real facts do we have other that unreliable sources on Thai Visa and other media outlets to determine whether or not these guys are guilty. If they are let them fry and if not let them go but who are we to be judge and jury. We don't know the facts. If anyone here can supply actual facts regarding this case then produce them. Not your our circumstancial evidence but actual facts.

If you look at the facts and ask the right questions, you will see clearer:

1) If the Burma guys were truly the murderers, why would they:

a) Remain on the island until finally caught?

b ) Keep a cellphone belonging to the victims in or behind their home?

c) Be some of the first on the island to provide a DNA sample (both can be seen on news DNA sampling photos)?

d) Why did they not "just" kill Hannah by strangulation, if intent to rape her was the motive, but bash her head into a pulp (what indicates a hate/revenge crime or a way to disguise a gunshot wound)?

e) If being aroused and wanting to rape Hannah was the motive, why would they attack her in the open while a tall, strong, potentially lethal guardian (David) was awake and present? (Look at the two Burmese dwarfs - you think they could come out of a fight to death with a man of David's stature without a scratch?)

f) Why would they be so stupid to leave DNA evidence behind in form of semen and cigarette buds? (Anyone, except Amazonas headhunters perhaps has seen CSI or anyting similar in his life by now)

g) If being aroused and wanting to rape Hannah was the motive, don't you think they woud have opted for a hundred Baht blowjob in a makeshift Burmese whorehouse instead to release the pressure, but instead went through a double murder to get off?

h) Knowing that they are illegally in Thailand, have no proper papers, etc. and happily live on KT in relative peace and with proper pay - why would they, the first ones on any official's blacklist on the island - commit such a crime, knowing that Burmese always are the first on Thais' kick a$$ list and that they certainly will go down?

i) Need to be puppeteered around the crime scene, being completely lost, not knowing where what happened, where the victims were, how they were supposed to kill them? Amost every move was shown to them by the RTP before they "reenacted".

j) Not be caught right away after the first DNA test and during the raids where exclusively Burmese homes were searched?

k) ...I believe that the many other TV members who agree with me on this being a stitchup could complete this list all the way to letter Z...

[Frank James]

As they used to say on the old Pee Wee Herman Show..."Let the Car-toons Begin!"

Disgusting.