Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[JLCrab]

Interesting memo on international law and convention to Andy Hall ... and here I was wondering what had become of the Bleacher Bum who hadn't posted since the release of the UK DCO memo and just before posted that he assumed the bodies had been sent back to the UK un-embalmed so the UK forensic team could come up with information contradicting the Thai officialdom's game plan.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/781591-koh-tao-thai-court-charges-pair-over-murders-of-british-backpackers/?view=findpost&p=8763919

Edited December 8, 2014 by JLCrab

[CharlieH]

Some posts removed.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[jdinasia]

Well an open question.

No ambiguity regarding the question.

Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?

A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer

The investigation has flaws. I have said so from the beginning. I don't think they are fatal flaws.

Now a question for you. The families of the victims have made comments about the investigation. They were not ambiguous. They have had people who were in Thailand and reviewed the case present the information to them. Their statement calls for a fair and transparent trial of the accused.

Do you have more actual contact with people involved in the investigation than they do, to thus think that a trial should not happen?

[CharlieH]

Post removed (again)

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[CharlieH]

Post removed.

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

[JohnThailandJohn]

One would have to really be trying hard to be obtuse or are completely uninformed or simply being dishonest to say the families have not made clear they are "confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged".

Family of British tourists murdered in Thailand say evidence against Myanmar migrants 'powerful and convincing'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-06/british-tourist-family-say-thailand-murder-evidence-convincing/5949000

UK families say Koh Tao case looks convincing

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Families of two British students murdered in Thailand back police

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/hannah-witheridge-david-miller-families-speak-thailand

Koh Tao killings: Victims family say evidence convincing

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/world/article/koh-tao-killings-victims-family-say-evidence-convincing#sthash.bi7f2X1b.dpuf

Family of Koh Tao beach victimssay evidence convincing

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/15570-family-of-koh-tao-beach-victimssay-evidence-convincing

Hannah Witheridge's Family 'Confident' In Thai Murder Investigation

http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/witheridges-family-confident-thai-investigation/#o7Ks27iR4TyGlYIW.99

Family of murdered British backpackers in Thailand say evidence convincing

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1206/665029-thailand/

Families of two murdered tourists say they are 'confident' in police probe to solve 'atrocious crimes'

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/families-of-two-murdered-tourists-say-they-are-confident-in-police-probe-to-solve-atrocious-crimes-30803785.html

8 links (you must worked overtime on that post) when 1 would have done but not 1 of these links supports the claim that you made that "the parents have clearly stated their confidence in these two people in custody being rightfully charged." Again it is your interpretation to suit your agenda.

You have changed their words in your mind which I think is extremely disrespectful to the grieving parents.

I agree he has done this many many times and it winds me up too........Total disrespect

It is called paraphrasing (notice the lack of quotations in original post questioned) and using common sense and NOTHING I stated is not what the families were communicating --- do you believe they think these two should not be awating trial on these charges given they made clear the evidence is convincing and strong against them? Do you not believe they think they should be on trial given their desire for a trial and their comments there is more evidence than we know about the case and there forepeople speculating with their nonsense on social media should shut the hell up? (yes not using their exact words again). It would also be far fetched to believe the UK police didn't share their confidence and strong evidence with them or do you suspect the UK police told them the opposite and their is a cover-up and police have it wrong and this is why they made their statements saying what they did?

You are just putting forth more distractions to discredit reality and suggest the highly implausible.

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[DM07]

Well an open question.

No ambiguity regarding the question.

Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?

A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer

The investigation has flaws. I have said so from the beginning. I don't think they are fatal flaws.

Now a question for you. The families of the victims have made comments about the investigation. They were not ambiguous. They have had people who were in Thailand and reviewed the case present the information to them. Their statement calls for a fair and transparent trial of the accused.

Do you have more actual contact with people involved in the investigation than they do, to thus think that a trial should not happen?

No...no fatal flaws!

At least not fatal for you!

[JohnThailandJohn]

On the topic at hand I am sure they (the family) are aware of some investigative flaws but don't have the full picture and benefit of residential experience to be fully aware of the underhand methods deployed by certain elements of the police force here. The stories of graft / dishonesty and large scale mismanagement of criminal proceedings have been widely documented for many years.

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read the posts of kurmudgeons on Thaivisa or focused on CSI LA Facebook instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their investigator's eyes?

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[DM07]

One would have to really be trying hard to be obtuse or are completely uninformed or simply being dishonest to say the families have not made clear they are "confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged".

Family of British tourists murdered in Thailand say evidence against Myanmar migrants 'powerful and convincing'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-06/british-tourist-family-say-thailand-murder-evidence-convincing/5949000

UK families say Koh Tao case looks convincing

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Families of two British students murdered in Thailand back police

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/hannah-witheridge-david-miller-families-speak-thailand

Koh Tao killings: Victims family say evidence convincing

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/world/article/koh-tao-killings-victims-family-say-evidence-convincing#sthash.bi7f2X1b.dpuf

Family of Koh Tao beach victimssay evidence convincing

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/15570-family-of-koh-tao-beach-victimssay-evidence-convincing

Hannah Witheridge's Family 'Confident' In Thai Murder Investigation

http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/witheridges-family-confident-thai-investigation/#o7Ks27iR4TyGlYIW.99

Family of murdered British backpackers in Thailand say evidence convincing

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1206/665029-thailand/

Families of two murdered tourists say they are 'confident' in police probe to solve 'atrocious crimes'

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/families-of-two-murdered-tourists-say-they-are-confident-in-police-probe-to-solve-atrocious-crimes-30803785.html

8 links (you must worked overtime on that post) when 1 would have done but not 1 of these links supports the claim that you made that "the parents have clearly stated their confidence in these two people in custody being rightfully charged." Again it is your interpretation to suit your agenda.

You have changed their words in your mind which I think is extremely disrespectful to the grieving parents.

I agree he has done this many many times and it winds me up too........Total disrespect

It is called paraphrasing (notice the lack of quotations in original post questioned) and using common sense and NOTHING I stated is not what the families were communicating --- do you believe they think these two should not be awating trial on these charges given they made clear the evidence is convincing and strong against them? Do you not believe they think they should be on trial given their desire for a trial and their comments there is more evidence than we know about the case and there forepeople speculating with their nonsense on social media should shut the hell up? (yes not using their exact words again). It would also be far fetched to believe the UK police didn't share their confidence and strong evidence with them or do you suspect the UK police told them the opposite and their is a cover-up and police have it wrong and this is why they made their statements saying what they did?

You are just putting forth more distractions to discredit reality and suggest the highly implausible.

"Paraphrasing" as in " I read it, see what I want and tell everybody, that what I think, is what is meant?"

Not being the nice guy that I am, one could call it "selective perception" or...well...lying or some kind of "theory"...maybe a "conspiracy theory"...

[CharlieH]

Post removed

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[jdinasia]

Well an open question.

No ambiguity regarding the question.

Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?

A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer

The investigation has flaws. I have said so from the beginning. I don't think they are fatal flaws.

Now a question for you. The families of the victims have made comments about the investigation. They were not ambiguous. They have had people who were in Thailand and reviewed the case present the information to them. Their statement calls for a fair and transparent trial of the accused.

Do you have more actual contact with people involved in the investigation than they do, to thus think that a trial should not happen?

No...no fatal flaws!

At least not fatal for you!

You could at least answer the question posed

[jdinasia]

On the topic at hand I am sure they (the family) are aware of some investigative flaws but don't have the full picture and benefit of residential experience to be fully aware of the underhand methods deployed by certain elements of the police force here. The stories of graft / dishonesty and large scale mismanagement of criminal proceedings have been widely documented for many years.

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read Thaivisa instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their eyes?

So you think the UK police would accuse the BiB of "wrong doing"........

Gawd 'elp us..........

So you think that the UK police would lie to the victims' families?

[uty6543]

One would have to really be trying hard to be obtuse or are completely uninformed or simply being dishonest to say the families have not made clear they are "confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged".

Family of British tourists murdered in Thailand say evidence against Myanmar migrants 'powerful and convincing'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-06/british-tourist-family-say-thailand-murder-evidence-convincing/5949000

UK families say Koh Tao case looks convincing

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/UK-families-say-Koh-Tao-case-looks-convincing-30249283.html

Families of two British students murdered in Thailand back police

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/06/hannah-witheridge-david-miller-families-speak-thailand

Koh Tao killings: Victims family say evidence convincing

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/world/article/koh-tao-killings-victims-family-say-evidence-convincing#sthash.bi7f2X1b.dpuf

Family of Koh Tao beach victimssay evidence convincing

http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/15570-family-of-koh-tao-beach-victimssay-evidence-convincing

Hannah Witheridge's Family 'Confident' In Thai Murder Investigation

http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/witheridges-family-confident-thai-investigation/#o7Ks27iR4TyGlYIW.99

Family of murdered British backpackers in Thailand say evidence convincing

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1206/665029-thailand/

Families of two murdered tourists say they are 'confident' in police probe to solve 'atrocious crimes'

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/families-of-two-murdered-tourists-say-they-are-confident-in-police-probe-to-solve-atrocious-crimes-30803785.html

8 links (you must worked overtime on that post) when 1 would have done but not 1 of these links supports the claim that you made that "the parents have clearly stated their confidence in these two people in custody being rightfully charged." Again it is your interpretation to suit your agenda.

You have changed their words in your mind which I think is extremely disrespectful to the grieving parents.

I agree he has done this many many times and it winds me up too........Total disrespect

It is called paraphrasing (notice the lack of quotations in original post questioned) and using common sense and NOTHING I stated is not what the families were communicating --- do you believe they think these two should not be awating trial on these charges given they made clear the evidence is convincing and strong against them? Do you not believe they think they should be on trial given their desire for a trial and their comments there is more evidence than we know about the case and there forepeople speculating with their nonsense on social media should shut the hell up? (yes not using their exact words again). It would also be far fetched to believe the UK police didn't share their confidence and strong evidence with them or do you suspect the UK police told them the opposite and their is a cover-up and police have it wrong and this is why they made their statements saying what they did?

You are just putting forth more distractions to discredit reality and suggest the highly implausible.

par·a·phrase

verb

gerund or present participle: paraphrasing

1. express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

   "you can either quote or paraphrase literary texts"

   synonyms: reword, rephrase, put/express in other words,rewrite, gloss

   "the reporter was not quoting directly but paraphrasing her remarks"

Nowhere in the definition does it say you change the words to mean what suits your agenda.

What you are doing is called distorting the facts. It appears you find it easy to be obtuse completely uninformed or are you simply being dishonest.

[berybert]

.And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Can you please post a link to the UK Investigators report/statement please.

Anyone thinking Mark Kent seems to be saying very little about these reports. That will be the real ones as well as the ones JTJ is making up.

Hey JDinasia, isn't that what you call a conspiracy ?.

[JohnThailandJohn]

On the topic at hand I am sure they (the family) are aware of some investigative flaws but don't have the full picture and benefit of residential experience to be fully aware of the underhand methods deployed by certain elements of the police force here. The stories of graft / dishonesty and large scale mismanagement of criminal proceedings have been widely documented for many years.

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read Thaivisa instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their eyes?

So you think the UK police would accuse the BiB of "wrong doing"........

Gawd 'elp us..........

I guess says a lot about the UK Police force they are satisfied in duping the victim's families and seeing two innocent people possibly put to death all because they are scared of Thai police. Wonder why everyone didn't think of this when pretending they were going to be the savior in this case and uncover the vast conspiracy to protect the son of a tiny island headsman whose dna didn't match and who was in Bangkok at the time of the murder. I am not from the UK but if you say the police there are scum bags to this level, sorry if I question that.

Edit: Weren't you also one of the ones calling for the UK Investigators to get involved?

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[jdinasia]

.And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Can you please post a link to the UK Investigators report/statement please.

Anyone thinking Mark Kent seems to be saying very little about these reports. That will be the real ones as well as the ones JTJ is making up.

Hey JDinasia, isn't that what you call a conspiracy ?.

No.

Please read the article.

[AleG]

Well an open question.

No ambiguity regarding the question.

Have the Thai police been morally and ethically and professional and left no reason or any doubt for the investigation to be considered flawed in the investigation of this horrific murder of two young British tourists on Koh Tao?

A simple yes or no will suffice as an answer

Thai Police have made mistakes as most do in most investigations throughout the world but nothing that would counter the belief they have the right people in custody. The suspects semen was found in the victims and based on the family statements who who were briefed by UK Investigators who examined the case, evidence and police conduct, it would seem there is even more evidence out there against the two suspects not made public yet and the family is confident in the investigation and believe there is strong and convincing evidence against the two men in custody.

The biggest mistake police made in this case is saying things they should not have said and saying things way to early before all the facts are in but they have done nothing I am aware of that would indicate they don't have the right people in custody for this crime. And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Sorry, not going to play your game of demanding how a question must be answered .... especially when you refused to answer my question worded identical to your original one re: UK Police.

May I interject to point out that the same people that are now complaining about the police not doing their job properly, i.e. recklessly releasing information during the course of an investigation. are the same people that were frothing at the mouth demanding the police to do just that?

They don't just want to eat their pie and have it too, they want to sell it back for a profit and deny they knew anything about a pie to begin with.

[JohnThailandJohn]

.And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Can you please post a link to the UK Investigators report/statement please.

Anyone thinking Mark Kent seems to be saying very little about these reports. That will be the real ones as well as the ones JTJ is making up.

Hey JDinasia, isn't that what you call a conspiracy ?.

"it would seem" by anyone using logic and common sense who read the families statements. And I never said or hinted at the UK Investigators making a statement. If you are using these same observation to consider this case, you might want to rethink them.

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[uty6543]

On the topic at hand I am sure they (the family) are aware of some investigative flaws but don't have the full picture and benefit of residential experience to be fully aware of the underhand methods deployed by certain elements of the police force here. The stories of graft / dishonesty and large scale mismanagement of criminal proceedings have been widely documented for many years.

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read Thaivisa instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their eyes?

So you think the UK police would accuse the BiB of "wrong doing"........

Gawd 'elp us..........

So you think that the UK police would lie to the victims' families?

No of course the British police would not lie to the victims families but it appears you and JTJ might. You are both Interpreting the families statements to suit your agendas.

[berybert]

.And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Can you please post a link to the UK Investigators report/statement please.

Anyone thinking Mark Kent seems to be saying very little about these reports. That will be the real ones as well as the ones JTJ is making up.

Hey JDinasia, isn't that what you call a conspiracy ?.

No.

Please read the article.

I cant he hasn't posted a link yet. Because as far as I'm aware the U.K. Investigators have made no comments at all.

[CharlieH]

Debate/discussion is fine, healthy even, but please remember to stay on topic, DO NOT make personal remarks.

[jdinasia]

.And based on victims family statement's it would seem they agree as do the UK Investigators.

Can you please post a link to the UK Investigators report/statement please.

Anyone thinking Mark Kent seems to be saying very little about these reports. That will be the real ones as well as the ones JTJ is making up.

Hey JDinasia, isn't that what you call a conspiracy ?.

No.

Please read the article.

I cant he hasn't posted a link yet. Because as far as I'm aware the U.K. Investigators have made no comments at all.

The OP.

[berybert]

The OP is a statement from the 2 families.

There is no U.K. Investigators report attached to it.

Edited December 8, 2014 by berybert

[thailandchilli]

Court date to consider evidence 25th Feb 2015.

The UK inquest will be over by then and the results publicly available.

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

Hopefully those witness's in Koh Tao that Andy Hall referred to will be brave enough to speak up by then

[JohnThailandJohn]

par·a·phrase

express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

Nowhere in the definition does it say you change the words to mean what suits your agenda.

What you are doing is called distorting the facts. It appears you find it easy to be obtuse completely uninformed or are you simply being dishonest.

Anyone being honest who have read the family statements will agree ... they are confident the two people in custody are being rightfully charged ... this is what is in question. Sorry if these facts don't support a conspiracy theory but rather support their statements which I paraphrased on this particular subject of their statement.

You are just continuing to find ways to distract from reality

Edited December 8, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[fritzzz25]

Court date to consider evidence 25th Feb 2015.

The UK inquest will be over by then and the results publicly available.

https://twitter.com/atomicalandy

Hopefully those witness's in Koh Tao that Andy Hall referred to will be brave enough to speak up by then

Don't think they will. Their lively hood would disappear, they must think of that, and I don't blame them. This ain't farangland........

EXACTLY where these people need to be hit. Right in the wallet.......

[StealthEnergiser]

The Two Men Charged With the Thai Backpacker Murders Face a Dubious Trial

The two Burmese migrant workers accused of killing a pair of British backpackers on an idyllic Thai beach appearedin court to be formality indicted Thursday. But there are growing fears that any trial will be a sh

http://time.com/3617617/thailand-koh-tao-murder-david-miller-hannah-witheridge-indictment/

Edited December 8, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[JohnThailandJohn]

I guess everyone should have been calling for the family to read Thaivisa instead of demanding UK Police get involved and how great and trusted UK police can be since it now seems you think kurmudgeons here are better informed than UK Investigators who briefed the families after coming here and seeing the evidence, working with Thai police, examining the case and looking for hints of cover ups ... or is it how some people have now suggested that UK Authorities are now in on the cover-up too or just plain incompetent and no match for the smarter Thai police who pulled the wool over their eyes?

So you think the UK police would accuse the BiB of "wrong doing"........

Gawd 'elp us..........

I guess says a lot about the UK Police force they are satisfied in duping the victim's families and seeing two innocent people possibly put to death all because they are scared of Thai police. Wonder why everyone didn't think of this when pretending they were going to be the savior in this case and uncover the vast conspiracy to protect the son of a tiny island headsman whose dna didn't match and who was in Bangkok at the time of the murder. I am not from the UK but if you say the police there are scum bags to this level, sorry if I question that.

Edit: Weren't you also one of the ones calling for the UK Investigators to get involved?

You are twisting words mon ami. Please don't do that eh.

Thankfully the UK police did come, but I am sure their "thoughts" were not blabbed to anyone except their superiors. Thats how a first world police force works.

So, you think the family is lying or the UK Investigators misled the families?

Since their return we have been able to meet with these officers together with our family liaison officers to learn about the investigation. There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us. We respect the need for such detail not to be shared publically before Royal Thai Police start their trial process. [/size]

Clearly you are clueless of the rights and information shared with victims and their families when the victim is deceased especially in a case like this that happened overseas. Even Thai police have been informing UK authrorities who have been informing the families before they met with investigators and the FCO stated publicly they wanted to this to happen early on.

What I don't get is the more these theories are knocked down with reality the stronger the need to come up with more nonsense becomes --- this has been the patter since the start with the ridiculous phone theory on facebook. Never a pause to say okay, this is a mistake just right on to more baseless theories and in fact doubling down on more nonsense speculative or imagined bs.

[catsanddogs]

I guess most already know the news but only just up here in the UK:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/08/uk-thailand-britain-murder-idUKKBN0JM0HR20141208

Thank the Lord!

Well done to all those who have given the men continued support and keep it up!

[thailandchilli]

Will the RTP action this before the trial:

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/thailand-must-investigate-police-torture-allegations-and-not-violate-rights-tourist-murder-prob

Somehow I don't think so, probably the opposite and ignore it completely.