Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[boomerangutang]

I don't think timeline based on the cctv footage will be able to prove anything, like what time they returned to their room. But it can certainly help piece the investigation together.

Which by the way looks like it was put together with different puzzle pieces.

Did you ever watch a Thai do a jigsaw or play a game. They work randomly. We do the corners.then the outside.then the middle. We play a game clockwise positions. They don't usually have a sequence of play. I imagine the investigation might be the same.

Sick of going round in circles.

Does anyone have the newspaper link and or picture of when bodies found.

Here's how our species stacks up against chimps, in solving puzzles:

True story: A researcher did an experiment in Africa with a bunch of schoolkids, age 10, and a young chimp. The kids and the chimp were watching the researcher do a series of movements around a plastic box (can't see in), and at the end - a little treat is given by opening a small lower door. All the kids, and the chimp do it successfully. The next day, the same drill, but this time the plastic box is see-through, so everyone can see the little prize behind the little door at the bottom.

All the kids do the drill again, individually, which includes waving a wand over the box, and touching it in various places. Fine. Then it's the chimp's turn. She doesn't do any of the hocus pocus, but goes directly to opening the door to get her prize. She can see it behind the clear plastic door. So can all the kids, but the kids (being human) have learned to go through all the silly movements they were taught the day before.

There's another experimental game where chimps consistently score better than humans, but it's too much to describe here, right now.

Edited December 29, 2014 by boomerangutang

[AleG]

If AleG thinks that he knows so much and we are all wrong then he should back up his claims with evidence of dates of when and how Nomsod travelled to from the island prior to and after the murders evidence of flight information would also help.

You are making the claim that he was on the island and he is connected with the murders, the burden of proof is on you to support the claim with evidence.

If you don't understand that I suggest you leave the solving crimes stuff to people who do.

Edited December 29, 2014 by AleG

[boomerangutang]

A few days ago the Burmese men released a letter saying that "real" murdered had already left Thailand, now they claim there are influential people framing them; so were they lying when they released the letter or when answering to the judge that they didn't know the "real" murderer?

The answer to the judge's question was straightforward and smart, given the possible repercussions (snuffed out in prison, for example) for certain types of answers. If you want to question something about that exchange, you can question the judge, for asking that question. I don't know if the judge realized it at the time, but by asking that question, and getting a reasonable response ("we don't know, we were drunk, we went home.") ....it precludes the B2 being called as witnesses to the crimes if, AND IT'S A BIG IF, the real perps are ever hauled in to court.

Neither you nor I know what the B2 saw or heard that night. They're in a prickly situation, trying to get out of a frame-up by the concerted forces of Thai officialdom coupled with the Headman's people. 14 weeks ago they were just a couple of young migrants bobbling around, trying to eke out a living, and sending bits of money back to their parents. They didn't know anything about court proceedings in Thailand or anywhere else. Now they're still young guys, but they're facing the full force of Thai officialdom (all the way up to the top), who achingly want a conviction. I don't envy the boys.

"Don't be afraid" said the big bad wolf, with a grin, to Little Red Riding Hood.

Edited December 29, 2014 by boomerangutang

[DM07]

If AleG thinks that he knows so much and we are all wrong then he should back up his claims with evidence of dates of when and how Nomsod travelled to from the island prior to and after the murders evidence of flight information would also help.

You are making the claim that he was on the island and he is connected with the murders, the burden of proof is on you to support the claim with evidence.

If you don't understand that I suggest you leave the solving crimes stuff to people who do.

Well...that one is not even so difficult!

Just look at the back and forth and fumbling and stumblin' of people, close and connected to said person, who made comments on his whereabouts (and those of other people)! His father, his girlfriend, his co-students, the RTP....

"He was in Bangkok..."

"He was on the island..."

"He was studying..." (well...)

"He was with me..." (...but you were somewhere else, than you claimed to be, so...)

On the other hand, look at the "final" statement(s) of the RTP (an organisation, known to be corrupt to the core)!

Both are not really solid evidence, but which makes you think "Well...that is interesting!"?

IMHO I'll have a look at the above statements, differing from each other!

If it proves nothing else, at least it proves, that no one can really be sure, about where he was!

That is good enough for me, to put him under very strict observation, it would make me look very closely at his alibi (phone records etc.)

So, I have a bunch of conflicting testimonies and you have the word of the RTP....

You loose, I win!

[metisdead]

Inflammatory post and reply have been removed.

[greenchair]

greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:greenchair, on 28 Dec 2014 - 14:28, said:

Not really looking for details just yet. Would just like someone to correct me on these times I have posted .just me being lazy really could probably fish through and find the times myself. But I am not good at finding the sources to get the information. What u are talking about is very complex. I am only looking for these correct times

@greenchair - I believe David Miller was last seen on CCTV at 1.57 a.m. walking with a group of westerners (not including Hannah). This was half an hour after he was seen walking alone and passing the man in the no. 9 football shirt. I did post the link to that CCTV footage from Sky News earlier in this thread. If you google "CCTV images David Miller Koh Tao" you can probably find it.

Has anyone considered the fact that the RTP may be in possession of CCTV images of the victims which haven't been released to the press/public? So little is known about the movements of David and Hannah from when they were in the AC bar together and after they left the AC bar, if indeed they were actually together in the bar. So far we have only seen the CCTV footage of them from (presumably) before they went to the bar.

EDIT: I posted the links to the CCTV footage on another thread. Anyway, here they are again:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thailand-beach-murders-new-cctv-footage-emerges-david-miller-koh-tao-island-1466353

http://news.sky.com/story/1338593/thailand-cctv-of-british-man-killed-on-beach

Great. Thank you

Timeline fact

2:58 hannah last seen alone.

1:27 David going to hotel.(9man)

1:56 David last seen. ( with 2 foreigner ). Looks like Tom and another girl from the groups. Can someone compare toms clothes.

Recap.

2.58 hannah last seen.

1:27 David seen.

1:56 David last seen.

Can someone please show me the link to when the bodies were found.

[Krenjai]

Recap.

2.58 hannah last seen.

1:27 David seen.

1:56 David last seen.

Not sure on the times but I believe you are correct and if so, with so many camera's on Koh Tao it is rather strange there is no footage of David from 1.56 onwards, and if they were together as per RTP you would expect to see some coverage of that. Let's start by looking at the AC coverage from 1.27 to 2.58..........oops we don't have it.... a virus called (covermeup.exe) wiped out the whole hard disc, we don't know how that happened.

[StealthEnergiser]

Can someone please show me the link to when the bodies were found.

Thai police hunt killers of two Britons found beaten to death

Their bodies were found at around 6:30 am Monday with a bloodied hoe discovered 35 metres from the murder scene, Jakkrapan told AFP.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=53525

[greenchair]

Recap.

2.58 hannah last seen.

1:27 David seen.

1:56 David last seen.

Not sure on the times but I believe you are correct and if so, with so many camera's on Koh Tao it is rather strange there is no footage of David from 1.56 onwards, and if they were together as per RTP you would expect to see some coverage of that. Let's start by looking at the AC coverage from 1.27 to 2.58..........oops we don't have it.... a virus called (covermeup.exe) wiped out the whole hard disc, we don't know how that happened.

Oh really that's shocking however there are so many of these picture all over the place. We just have to round them up.

Island life showed a link to David 1:27 going to his room.

David 1:56 going away from room.

I see another has showed a link the bodies were found at 6:30

Do you know of a link hannah was last seen at 2:58

[greenchair]

Can someone please show me the link to when the bodies were found.

Thai police hunt killers of two Britons found beaten to death

Their bodies were found at around 6:30 am Monday with a bloodied hoe discovered 35 metres from the murder scene, Jakkrapan told AFP.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=53525

Oh thank you.

Recap

2:58 hannah last seen

1:27 David go hotel

1:56 David last seen

6:30 bodies discovered

Does anyone know the time Muang bought cigarettes.

Does anyone know the time boys on motorbike.

[Krenjai]

• "I do have strong suspicions that the local families and police have actively tried to derail the investigation, attempted to cover it up and that had social media not attracted international attention on the case, that a Burmese scapegoat would have been found.

• "I very much doubt that the person (or people) who did this will actually be punished. I think someone will be arrested, and will have a confession beaten out of them by Thai police. Due to the international attention, local cops cannot risk the loss of face by not “solving” this tragic crime."

Amazing predictions and how true......... made on Sep 25th by a person "in the know".........

[JLCrab]

• "I do have strong suspicions that the local families and police have actively tried to derail the investigation, attempted to cover it up and that had social media not attracted international attention on the case, that a Burmese scapegoat would have been found.

• "I very much doubt that the person (or people) who did this will actually be punished. I think someone will be arrested, and will have a confession beaten out of them by Thai police. Due to the international attention, local cops cannot risk the loss of face by not “solving” this tragic crime."

Amazing predictions and how true......... made on Sep 25th by a person "in the know".........

Best line from the extended quote from 25 SEP 2014 by 'person in the know":

"Something about the whole story still doesn’t make sense though. I simply cannot understand why someone from one of these powerful families would actually get involved in this mess and do something so brutal. Somewhere these facts don’t add up. Thai males are known to get violent at a moments notice – but this is when “face” comes into play. They don’t (especially well connected business owners, even ones descended from squatters) just rape and murder two tourists when their entire industry depends on them."

Note see post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/?view=findpost&p=8866084

Edited December 29, 2014 by JLCrab

[Krenjai]

• "I do have strong suspicions that the local families and police have actively tried to derail the investigation, attempted to cover it up and that had social media not attracted international attention on the case, that a Burmese scapegoat would have been found.

• "I very much doubt that the person (or people) who did this will actually be punished. I think someone will be arrested, and will have a confession beaten out of them by Thai police. Due to the international attention, local cops cannot risk the loss of face by not “solving” this tragic crime."

Amazing predictions and how true......... made on Sep 25th by a person "in the know".........

Best line from the extended quote from 25 SEP 2014 by 'person in the know":

"Something about the whole story still doesn’t make sense though. I simply cannot understand why someone from one of these powerful families would actually get involved in this mess and do something so brutal. Somewhere these facts don’t add up. Thai males are known to get violent at a moments notice – but this is when “face” comes into play. They don’t (especially well connected business owners, even ones descended from squatters) just rape and murder two tourists when their entire industry depends on them."

Note see post http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/787155-koh-tao-murder-trial-rescheduled/?view=findpost&p=8866084

Agree, however IMHO, Hannah was targeted to "teach her a lesson", maybe rape wasn't even planned, maybe it was...BUT this got out of hand because David popped up on the scene. David just happened to be wrong time wrong place, he heard/saw something and tried to save her (right Sean?) (Like Ron Goldman, wrong time wrong place OJ style). It is a simple as that IMHO and because now they had an extra body, what do you do? They improvised and made it look like a couple involved in some sexual activity attacked by some crazy aroused Burmese.

[JLCrab]

Per the late US Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan: Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.

[DennisF]

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

[catsanddogs]

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

It says in the above link -

Within the two foreign witnesses, one is a friend of the victims, and the other one is the guitarist from the AC bar owned by the head of the Island. Both of them departed from the Island the next day right after accident. They were allowed to depart the country and found not related to the murder case after minor investigations by Thai police.

But McAnna didn't leave the next day. Didn't he leave a week later? Or have I missed something in that he did try and leave the island the next day but was prevented by doing so?

[JLCrab]

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

... or maybe a whole extended family of psychopaths

[thailandchilli]

AKA the MUNSTERS

[Fat Haggis]

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

It says in the above link -

Within the two foreign witnesses, one is a friend of the victims, and the other one is the guitarist from the AC bar owned by the head of the Island. Both of them departed from the Island the next day right after accident. They were allowed to depart the country and found not related to the murder case after minor investigations by Thai police.

But McAnna didn't leave the next day. Didn't he leave a week later? Or have I missed something in that he did try and leave the island the next day but was prevented by doing so?

As far as I recall he left the next day of his revelations about " who done it" which was a few days after the murder, maybe as many as 4-5 days

[Fat Haggis]

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

It says in the above link -

Within the two foreign witnesses, one is a friend of the victims, and the other one is the guitarist from the AC bar owned by the head of the Island. Both of them departed from the Island the next day right after accident. They were allowed to depart the country and found not related to the murder case after minor investigations by Thai police.

But McAnna didn't leave the next day. Didn't he leave a week later? Or have I missed something in that he did try and leave the island the next day but was prevented by doing so?

As far as I recall he left the next day of his revelations about " who done it" which was a few days after the murder, maybe as many as 4-5 days

[boomerangutang]

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

Everything changes when a Thai person (man or woman) flies in to a rage. I've seen it several times, from both men and women. There's no middle ground. It goes from calm, to appearance of calm, to full-tilt rage in a microsecond, - and there are no holds barred. It's screaming, red-faced, veins sticking out of the neck rage. Any Thai is capable of it, particularly the pampered son of a rich mafia-like don at a little island.

And, when the situation demands it, the same person can go back to appearance of calm. Like the son of the super-rich caffeine drink peddler, who killed a cop on the hood of his speeding car. The next day he was sitting next to his mama, looking like a sad little puppy.

Now there's the interesting photo of the four family members (post #2138). It looks like Nomsod on the left, his father on the right. Next to the father is Nomsod's mother? We haven't heard a peep from or about her, even though Thai mothers are known to be privy to everything about their darling sons (no phone calls right after the crime?). And who's the man standing next to Nomsod?

[greenchair]

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

Everything changes when a Thai person (man or woman) flies in to a rage. I've seen it several times, from both men and women. There's no middle ground. It goes from calm, to appearance of calm, to full-tilt rage in a microsecond, - and there are no holds barred. It's screaming, red-faced, veins sticking out of the neck rage. Any Thai is capable of it, particularly the pampered son of a rich mafia-like don at a little island.

And, when the situation demands it, the same person can go back to appearance of calm. Like the son of the super-rich caffeine drink peddler, who killed a cop on the hood of his speeding car. The next day he was sitting next to his mama, looking like a sad little puppy.

Now there's the interesting photo of the four family members (post #2138). It looks like Nomsod on the left, his father on the right. Next to the father is Nomsod's mother? We haven't heard a peep from or about her, even though Thai mothers are known to be privy to everything about their darling sons (no phone calls right after the crime?). And who's the man standing next to Nomsod?

Does it not seem strange. Here is nomsod, his lawyer, mother, then father. The brother is not in the picture. Never hear about the brother. What was his name again

[IslandLover]

DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:

DennisF, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:55, said:DennisF, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:55, said:

boomerangutang, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:45, said:boomerangutang, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:45, said:

at the get-together. . . .

If there's a guitar in the room, I could play some renditions of....

'Only You' (Platters)

'Under My Thumb' (R.Stones)

'I'm an Apeman' (Kinks)

'Teenage Wasteland' (Who)

'Midnight Rambler' (Stones)

'I'll Be Watching You' (Police)

. . . . . sing-alongs, ok.

Since I put the angle grinder through my left hand a couple of years ago you may well be short a Bass player.

Anything Rod Stewart sang I could play, plus meatloaf and many 80's bands...

Could even do Smokie!!!!

If ANY of that happened, I would have a bloody guitar in my hands by the end of the evening!

Dislike! LOL. Nevermind Midnight Rambler, I think we could add Sympathy for the Devil, Streetfighting Man and Gimme Shelter by the Stones to Boomerangutang's list .

Edited December 29, 2014 by IslandLover

[DennisF]

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

... or maybe a whole extended family of psychopaths

I doubt that although the latest picture is definitely not from a Hollywood PR company!

Its not too much of a stretch though to believe (given firm evidence) that a member of the family was one

of the attackers and they have closed ranks to protect him, as is the usual case in Thailand.

Edited December 29, 2014 by DennisF

[IslandLover]

greenchair, on 29 Dec 2014 - 13:40, said:

boomerangutang, on 29 Dec 2014 - 13:34, said:

DennisF, on 29 Dec 2014 - 11:34, said:

It is true that the people of influence drawing attention to themselves in this manner is very strange as far as a theory goes.

However, psychopaths are not usually motivated by common sense.

Everything changes when a Thai person (man or woman) flies in to a rage. I've seen it several times, from both men and women. There's no middle ground. It goes from calm, to appearance of calm, to full-tilt rage in a microsecond, - and there are no holds barred. It's screaming, red-faced, veins sticking out of the neck rage. Any Thai is capable of it, particularly the pampered son of a rich mafia-like don at a little island.

And, when the situation demands it, the same person can go back to appearance of calm. Like the son of the super-rich caffeine drink peddler, who killed a cop on the hood of his speeding car. The next day he was sitting next to his mama, looking like a sad little puppy.

Now there's the interesting photo of the four family members (post #2138). It looks like Nomsod on the left, his father on the right. Next to the father is Nomsod's mother? We haven't heard a peep from or about her, even though Thai mothers are known to be privy to everything about their darling sons (no phone calls right after the crime?). And who's the man standing next to Nomsod?

Does it not seem strange. Here is nomsod, his lawyer, mother, then father. The brother is not in the picture. Never hear about the brother. What was his name again

I'm trying to find it for you Greenchair but I think that particular post may have been deleted from the fb site. I certainly saw it when it was originally posted but I can't seem to find it back.

[CRUNCHER]

DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:

DennisF, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:55, said:

boomerangutang, on 28 Dec 2014 - 13:45, said:

at the get-together. . . .

If there's a guitar in the room, I could play some renditions of....

'Only You' (Platters)

'Under My Thumb' (R.Stones)

'I'm an Apeman' (Kinks)

'Teenage Wasteland' (Who)

'Midnight Rambler' (Stones)

'I'll Be Watching You' (Police)

. . . . . sing-alongs, ok.

Since I put the angle grinder through my left hand a couple of years ago you may well be short a Bass player.

Anything Rod Stewart sang I could play, plus meatloaf and many 80's bands...

Could even do Smokie!!!!

If ANY of that happened, I would have a bloody guitar in my hands by the end of the evening!

Dislike! LOL. Nevermind Midnight Rambler, I think we could add Sympathy for the Devil, Streetfighting Man and Gimme Shelter by the Stones to Boomeragutang's list .

This is a thread about the horific murder of two young people and their families' reactions.

How come we have got into parties and the music to be played.

The uncivil insults throughout are bad enough, but this is sick.

[DennisF]

To be honest, it would be a relief if Nomsod where to provide absolute irrefutable evidence that he was NOT involved in this crime.

Then the attention could be focused on gathering evidence rather than trying to make something fit.

I have to confess that after doing the photoshop semi-match and the height scale myself I am 99% convinced the running man is him.

Our self proclaimed expert in photoshop will possibly doubt my abilities but as a user since the first photoshop 2 ( I think early 93??) released for windows

and having purchased every upgrade since up until CS6 I can assure him of my competence as I use it daily although I would never call myself an expert,

merely proficient.

[IslandLover]

CRUNCHER, on 29 Dec 2014 - 16:37, said:CRUNCHER, on 29 Dec 2014 - 16:37, said:

IslandLover, on 29 Dec 2014 - 16:31, said:IslandLover, on 29 Dec 2014 - 16:31, said:

DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:DM07, on 29 Dec 2014 - 04:45, said:

If ANY of that happened, I would have a bloody guitar in my hands by the end of the evening!

Dislike! LOL. Nevermind Midnight Rambler, I think we could add Sympathy for the Devil, Streetfighting Man and Gimme Shelter by the Stones to Boomeragutang's list .

This is a thread about the horific murder of two young people and their families' reactions.

How come we have got into parties and the music to be played.

The uncivil insults throughout are bad enough, but this is sick.

I forgot that having a sense of humour is not allowed on this forum. Sorry. Yes, this thread is about the horrific murder of two young people and their families' reactions. My posts up till now have reflected that.

[IslandLover]

Fat Haggis, on 29 Dec 2014 - 12:43, said:Fat Haggis, on 29 Dec 2014 - 12:43, said:

catsanddogs, on 29 Dec 2014 - 12:07, said:catsanddogs, on 29 Dec 2014 - 12:07, said:

Willy Eckerslike, on 28 Dec 2014 - 12:20, said:Willy Eckerslike, on 28 Dec 2014 - 12:20, said:

Latest from SLESQ

Two foreigners to testify for defence.............Could it be Macanna and Ware?? sounds like it!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-9#entry8863118

It says in the above link -

Within the two foreign witnesses, one is a friend of the victims, and the other one is the guitarist from the AC bar owned by the head of the Island. Both of them departed from the Island the next day right after accident. They were allowed to depart the country and found not related to the murder case after minor investigations by Thai police.

But McAnna didn't leave the next day. Didn't he leave a week later? Or have I missed something in that he did try and leave the island the next day but was prevented by doing so?

As far as I recall he left the next day of his revelations about " who done it" which was a few days after the murder, maybe as many as 4-5 days

I think McAnna's fb posts about the incident in the minimart were around the 21st September and he left the island later that day. That's one week after the murders.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/762561-terrified-briton-flees-koh-tao-after-mafia-death-threat/page-1

Edited December 29, 2014 by MJP

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed.