NACC stalls over 'difficult' prosecution of 2010 crackdown

[webfact]

NACC Stalls Over 'Difficult' Prosecution of 2010 Crackdown
By Khaosod English


A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014.

BANGKOK — Thailand’s national anti-graft body is finding it "difficult" to bring charges against those responsible for the deadly crackdown on protesters in 2010 because of security officers' role in the violence, a spokesperson said yesterday.

"When the prosecutors were compiling the case, they didn't say security officers were related to them [the crackdown deaths]," said Vicha Mahakhun, spokesperson of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC). "But when the matters arrived in the court, the court says the deaths were caused by actions of the security officers."

Since there is evidence that points to the involvement of authorities, the NACC has to identify the exact individuals who gave the orders that led to those deaths, while also "giving fairness" to the security officers, Vicha explained.

"The autopsy shows so many twists to the story. We have to summon more witnesses in the cases related to the court inquests ... which are the security officers," he said.

According to the NACC spokesman, the cases will be completed "by early this year."


Troops clash with protesters in Bangkok on 19 May 2010, the final day of the military crackdown.

The crackdown in 2010 came as a response to tens of thousands of Redshirt demonstrators who descended on the capital city and occupied Bangkok’s financial districts to demand a fresh election.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1420444216&section=00


-- Khaosod English 2015-01-06

[chainarong]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

[Briggsy]

The Thais are still waiting for prosecutions for the killings in '73, '76, '92 and many disappearances and odd killings in between. When the order comes down from the military commanders to open fire on Thais, nobody is going to get prosecuted. This announcement is just politicking and providing excuses to justify this quango's own existence.

[apetley]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

[tx22cb]

If the NACC knows what's good for them, this investigation will be quickly swept under the c, because Suthep and Prayuth were in charge of the 2010 crackdown.

[AlQaholic]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Edited January 6, 2015 by AlQaholic

[SaamBaht]

If the NACC knows what's good for them, this investigation will be quickly swept under the c, because Suthep and Prayuth were in charge of the 2010 crackdown.

Absolutely!

What's ironic is those that crackdown on the 2010 protest then staged similar, more destructive protests that eventually led to the military takeover. The double standard by the central Thai elite lives on and on and on.

[djhotsox]

If the NACC knows what's good for them, this investigation will be quickly swept under the c, because Suthep and Prayuth were in charge of the 2010 crackdown.

Well then, let's hope the NACC does not know what is good for them.......

[tbthailand]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

Thanks for pointing out that 'civil disobedience' doesn't give carte blanche to authorities.

Interesting that this (1) takes so much longer than other prosecutions and (2) that the differences between 2010 and 2014 can be brought into such sharp contrast.

[Robby nz]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Anyone who knows anything about firearms would not have posted that.

[NoBrainer]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

[Acharn]

If the NACC knows what's good for them, this investigation will be quickly swept under the c, because Suthep and Prayuth were in charge of the 2010 crackdown.

Of course they were, and that's why they were charged with murder. That charge has already been thrown out of court, so this is really moot. The Red Shirts are mostly poor and powerless, so there is no point in charging or prosecuting people who ordered them killed. I should say that the idea of prosecuting government officials for taking action to disperse a mob was always far fetched.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Acharn

[Just1Voice]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

And what "idiot" calls an M-16 and AK??

M-16's ARE manufactured with accuracy in mind, and now come with a wide variety of "platforms" which allow for multiple accessories, which include scopes.

Please learn your weapons before running your mouth and making a fool of yourself.

[Acharn]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Anyone who knows anything about firearms would not have posted that.

Your reply would have been more interesting if you had pointed out why "Anyone who knows anything about firearms would not have posted that." One thing I notice is that the rifle is not an AK at all. I'm not sure, but it looks to me like Colt M-4. I agree with the OP that the scope looks inappropriate for the rifle, and the barrel is too short for it to be a good sniper weapon. Generally a semi-automatic rifle is considered less accurate than a bolt action. On the other hand a trained sniper can hit a target out to a couple hundred meters with just about any kind of weapon. Also, most military forces switched to optical sights on their weapons some years ago, although the sights the American military uses are a lot smaller than this scope. Also, too, the ear buds and sun glasses do make this picture pretty funny.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Acharn

[Tatsujin]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Looks more like an M16 (Sniper)/AR15 (or some variation of) to me, the sunglasses are used to protect the eyes from glare to prevent eye fatigue when not actually shooting, it's quite sunny here you know, the earphones are for him to receive orders from his commander, not listen to music, the scope is used by ALL military units worldwide (in different forms), probably a 6 x zoom.

[Bob12345]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Is that really the question to be asked?

You think that killing citizens for any case of civil disobedience is fine?

Did you ever use a proxy server in Thailand to read a news article blocked by the government? If yes, you can now kill yourself as that is the appropriate punishment according to yourself.

Maybe you should read up on civil disobedience a bit and should ask yourself what the world would have looked like without it (read about Gandhi, civil rights in the US, etc, etc, etc).

Shocking that there are also people who clicked "like" on your statement.

[animatic]

If you want to see in detail what is going on far away a telescope of some sort is what you use.

If you are in something resembling a war zone, having a weapon in your hand can save your life.

If you need to do both, take radio orders and report to your superiors what you are doing and seeing,

an ear bud with microphone, and a too large scope on your rifle would make perfect sense.

Nothing illegal unless there is specific evidence that he pulled the tripper while aiming at non-combatants.

Violent, insurrection and attacks on police and military such as National Guard, is not typically called civil disobedience.

Edited January 6, 2015 by animatic

[Cuchulainn]

Yesssssssssssssss!!

[ImmortalGod]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Your views on the double standard then? Why was Suthep allowed to take over the streets with 6 months of civil disobedience, why were the PDRC minions not slaughtered like dogs in the streets? Your political hatred has caused your heart to shrink two sizes. How can you not empathise with those slain in their own capital by their own military, how can you not want justice, how can you not want punishment meted out to the offenders to ensure the likes of such never happens again. Your views and opinions are inhumane and disgraceful!

Edited January 6, 2015 by ImmortalGod

[Robby nz]

If you want to see in detail what is going on far away a telescope of some sort is what you use.

If you are in something resembling a war zone, having a weapon in your hand can save your life.

If you need to do both, take radio orders and report to your superiors what you are doing and seeing,

an ear bud with microphone, and a too large scope on your rifle would make perfect sense.

Nothing illegal unless there is specific evidence that he pulled the tripper while aiming at non-combatants.

Violent, insurrection and attacks on police and military such as National Guard, is not typically called civil disobedience.

Right on all counts animatic.

Its usually called riots and that's just what we had in 2010 with an armed faction shooting at and killing soldiers.

While having a weapon in your hands in such a situation can save you it can, in the case of a rioter get you killed.

I would imagine the orders to the army would have been to target anyone carrying a firearm, we will never know how many of the so called 'peaceful protesters' who were shot were in fact carrying weapons when they were shot, for their weapons would have been taken from them as soon as they were hit.

Nor will we ever know how many were shot by their own armed element.

Those of us who were here at the time will remember footage on tele of men in black (who never existed according to some) emerging from cover, letting off a mag of shots in the general direction of the army and jumping back into cover again.

Those who would suggest that the use of snipers is something terrible should consider that it is carefully choosing a target that is a threat while avoiding normal protesters and children.

Like the terrified young one who was put on top of the barricade as a target by a grinning (presumably) father who had his head well down.

There is someone who deserved to be shot and should now be tracked down, prosecuted and put away for a long time.

[arrowsdawdle]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

It doesn't excuse the killing of anyone. Deadly force is only justified to prevent deadly force.

[MiKT]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that the snipers scoped weapon in the photo is not an AK. It's the Thai Army version of the AR15/M16.

[Utley]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

This photo was published by the Washington Post - hardly a "trash" newspaper.

[MiKT]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

Maybe he shot Khattiya Sawasdipol whilst he was talking to a reporter?

[Docno]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

That's all very true. But we do know that non-combatants were targeted by snipers, shot and killed... the nurse killed in the temple compound for instance. The point here is not that the soldier in the photo needs to be prosecuted--we don't know if and whom he shot--but someone needs to be held accountable for the killing of innocents by representatives of the state. I'm talking about the people who gave the orders for 'live fire' etc. Of course, this will not happen during the current regime for reasons that are all too obvious...

Edited January 6, 2015 by Docno

[Chris Lawrence]

Water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets? Negotiation?

Snipers are a terminal action when they hit there mark. An ultimate end?

So this group occupied government buildings? What about the mob that occupied the airport; no one got shot there?

Does this judiciary take direction from the military?

I don't know what the answers are, but there may have been some form of intervention that may have been more appropriate than the action of killing unarmed civilians. (Not sure if any of the people killed had weapons that were pointing at their attackers?)

[WhizBang]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Is that really the question to be asked?

You think that killing citizens for any case of civil disobedience is fine?

Did you ever use a proxy server in Thailand to read a news article blocked by the government? If yes, you can now kill yourself as that is the appropriate punishment according to yourself.

Maybe you should read up on civil disobedience a bit and should ask yourself what the world would have looked like without it (read about Gandhi, civil rights in the US, etc, etc, etc).

Shocking that there are also people who clicked "like" on your statement.

What happened in 2010 went WAY WAY beyond civil disobedience. It was an armed insurrection and definately needed to be put down by force. Everyone inside the insurrection camp should have been aware of the consequences of what might happen, especially given Thailand's past history.

They were also given ample warning to clear out and leave. They choose not to do so, and so must not only accept responsability, but also the consequences.

Had the army/authorities/Abhisit wanted to turn it into a bloodbath, there would have been far far more people killed.

Personally, I think Abhisit screwed up. He was too lenient and too tolerant and the reds took advantage and built their barricades. Abhisit should have done what would be done in the west. Give them a warning to vacate with a time limit, then move in immediately once the time limit expires. No compromises, no negotiating, just arrests.

Plus, one must ask what the police were doing during all of this? Their total and complete inaction in enforcing any laws contributed immensely to the buildup of the red encampments. The police MUST also be held accountable for what happened in 2010 by not only allowing the reds free reign, but for also assisting them.

[WhizBang]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Your views on the double standard then? Why was Suthep allowed to take over the streets with 6 months of civil disobedience, why were the PDRC minions not slaughtered like dogs in the streets? Your political hatred has caused your heart to shrink two sizes. How can you not empathise with those slain in their own capital by their own military, how can you not want justice, how can you not want punishment meted out to the offenders to ensure the likes of such never happens again. Your views and opinions are inhumane and disgraceful!

Your views (red tinted sunglasses?) are worse.

[Smurkster]

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The Thais are still waiting for prosecutions for the killings in '73, '76, '92 and many disappearances and odd killings in between. When the order comes down from the military commanders to open fire on Thais, nobody is going to get prosecuted. This announcement is just politicking and providing excuses to justify this quango's own existence.

'76 where not only did the army fire on a crowd of protestors, when some of them managed to run away and jump in the Chao Praya river, Army helicopters were sent to shoot at them from the air into the river...the last 50 years of history of this country is a Human Rights disaster..

[halloween]

Water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets? Negotiation?

Snipers are a terminal action when they hit there mark. An ultimate end?

So this group occupied government buildings? What about the mob that occupied the airport; no one got shot there?

Does this judiciary take direction from the military?

I don't know what the answers are, but there may have been some form of intervention that may have been more appropriate than the action of killing unarmed civilians. (Not sure if any of the people killed had weapons that were pointing at their attackers?)

If someone was shooting at your house with a rifle, would you squirt them with a water pistol?