Dealing with condo owners who refuse to pay dues/levies

[ozyjon]

If legal action isn't viable, what are some options?

As said many times,,Don't buy,,RENT

The problem is world wide.

[giddyup]

Not sure if this would be practical for condos, but in our community housing, they hold a general meeting every six months or so, emphasise the importance of paying service fees, then pass round diagrammatic list of house numbers and how much each are in arrears. Then owners are asked to pledge when they will be paying up!

People 'lose face' when others can see who is not paying their dues, so it seems to work quite well.

The problem is the non-payers don't attend so they can't be shamed.

[giddyup]

Apathy?? Not hardly. The non-payers are cheap selfish a...holes who simply don't want to pay and take responsibility for themselves.

you are a sitting duck for extortion the sooner you realise that the sooner you will understand why the thais arent paying.

Why a sitting duck for extortion? No comprende.

[mike324]

I live in a gated community where you need a keycard to enter and exit by car. If you don't pay your fees or dues, you don't get a keycard. Problem solved, unless you don't have a car.

We have the same set-up, but the problem is that owners all paid when the remote keys were issued, but now a year later 17 (all Thai) have defaulted on their maintenance. So unless you change the keys every year, an expensive proposition, it's very hard to make them pay. I can see the writing on the wall, now that 17 out of 39 have defaulted, the rest will start to drop out as well, myself included. These bloody free-loaders want all the facilities like street lighting, road sweeping, pool maintenance, security etc, for free. They just don't seem to grasp how quickly a village will go downhill once it's not maintained, which of course affects property values.

Management can remove the remote keys numbers from the system so that they will not be able to enter. Most new condo start by revoking access to common facilities, then elevator/entrance, if it ever gets to this stage most owners will pay up or else they can't enter the premise.

In my mooban there are always non-payers as well, some folks just don't think they need to pay, a gentlemen even came to a meeting with a thick face and said it in front of everyone that he will not pay and nobody can do anything about it.

[Maestro]

From the Condominium Act, as amended:

Section 18 Joint owners shall jointly share the payments of expenses on tax and duty in accordance with the ratio of the freehold in common property under Section 14, by each joint owner.

Joint owners shall jointly share the payments of expenses incurred as a result of providing common services as well as equipments, appliances and facilities having for common utilizations and the expenses incurred as a result of the looking after, maintenance and operations of common property in accordance with the ratio of the freehold in common property under Section 14, by each joint owner or in accordance with the portion of the advantage upon the unit provided, however, that this shall be in accordance with the requirements set forth under the Regulations.

A person with freehold in the land and building under Section 6 shall be the joint owner of the unit which the ownership in it has not yet been transferred to any person and shall jointly share the payments of the expenses under paragraph one and paragraph two for such particular unit, as well.

Section 18/1 In the case where a joint owner fails to make payments set forth under Section 18 with the prescribed time, such joint owner shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twelve percents (12%) per year of the amount unpaid without compound interest charging provided, however, that this shall be in accordance with the requirements set forth under the Bylaws.

A joint owner with an amount in arrears under Section 18 from six months and upwards shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twenty percents (20%) per year and may be suspended from receiving common services or using common property as set forth under the By-laws including the non-existence of the right to vote in the General Meeting.

The surcharge under paragraph one shall be deemed as the expenses under Section 18.

Source: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html

[thailand49]

Know several people who have asked for my advice regarding this situation and situations in housing projects.

It should be written in the by-laws in your mothers condo as to what the complex or builder and board running your complex is to do in this situation. It should be very cleared I would be very surprise if it is not in the bylaws. The problem you have are the people running the condo complex it is their job to follow through with these rules. If done properly they can put a lien on the unit and if they were on top of the situation take over the unit and sell it. Of course this process take time so guys like you do nothing is what they are hoping you do. Sure this is Thailand right so do this and in the cases I know it worked.

First find out the above, it does not take much unless you just want to sit and complaint, but sometimes progress means spending some money. Get a lawyer who can speak good English and translated to you look for the above. Ask why some are not paying and who is running the complex and why not. Get names...

Then give noticed to the people in charge why you or your mother is not paying! and when the complex straighten it out you would be glad to pay what is owned and any future payment. Put out some flyers in your complex to others and make it known as to the situation. Yes things might not get fixed but enough people complaining to help with your battle the better. Sometimes things have to get worse before it gets better. These people are getting paid to do a job! Most likely you should ask for a accounting record of what is taken in and what goes out.. it is your right to get it! You are a owner do not forget it regardless if you are a foreigner! I have a feeling you are getting robbed!

In the situation of friends this was how things got settle.. but before it did all hell broke loose!

No one is saying hired a bunch of lawyer and sue money money money right! you got to make a little noise get someones attention so you can have a decent serious discussion. It is a bluff... if it doesn't work don't pay either what are they going to do? If things fall apart they will listen because owners will be kicking down the doors.

Lesson! before buying gets those by-laws and the monthly financial records to see how many are paying. A well run project is one that is in the black each month with a hefty reserve!

Edited March 17, 2015 by thailand49

[PETERTHEEATER]

I live in a gated community where you need a keycard to enter and exit by car. If you don't pay your fees or dues, you don't get a keycard. Problem solved, unless you don't have a car.

We have the same set-up, but the problem is that owners all paid when the remote keys were issued, but now a year later 17 (all Thai) have defaulted on their maintenance. So unless you change the keys every year, an expensive proposition, it's very hard to make them pay. I can see the writing on the wall, now that 17 out of 39 have defaulted, the rest will start to drop out as well, myself included. These bloody free-loaders want all the facilities like street lighting, road sweeping, pool maintenance, security etc, for free. They just don't seem to grasp how quickly a village will go downhill once it's not maintained, which of course affects property values.

Is it possible to change the code, as they do in hotels, and only financial members get the new card and code?

No. It's not a key card it's a remote to open the gates. There is still security there as well in case someone forgets their remote, but it would require everyone to be issued with new remotes to prevent access. There's no easy answer unfortunately.

Then change the code by using a different sequence on the dipswitches in the barrier control box and calling in the remotes of the paidup residents and resetting their remotes.

[saakura]

I agree with KittenKong except it is my understanding that compound interest is not allowed.

Maximum interest is 20% (after 6 months) and that is simple interest. I believe there was a case in Riverside where they charged compound interest and an owner objected. The owner won the case.

On another point I would be careful about listing non-payers. The laws of libel in Thailand are quite draconian.

If a unit is totally abandoned then it is possible for the condo to get control of the unit, sell it and recover their money. The balance is held for the legitimate owner. But it is time consuming.

When a member has not paid his rightful dues and you put up his name in the list of defaulters, where is the question of libel? As i understand, libel is when you falsely accuse someone with the aim of tarnishing his reputation.

[giddyup]

Then change the code by using a different sequence on the dipswitches in the barrier control box and calling in the remotes of the paidup residents and resetting their remotes.

I'll suggest that to the committee. Thanks

[nithisa78]

I owned a condo for in Fla as an investment.

The most viable solution would be an advertisement in a Miami, Fla newspaper for a Condo Commando Consultant. They can do anything. It amazes me that governments don't employ them. I as well credit them for ridding Fla of insects.

Donald Trump would be too expensive.

[KittenKong]

I owned a condo for in Fla as an investment.

The most viable solution would be an advertisement in a Miami, Fla newspaper for a Condo Commando Consultant. They can do anything. It amazes me that governments don't employ them.

Do they have work permits? Can they speak/read Thai?

I would love to employ western management in our building, but the option just isn't there.

[chickenslegs]

I agree with KittenKong except it is my understanding that compound interest is not allowed.

Maximum interest is 20% (after 6 months) and that is simple interest. I believe there was a case in Riverside where they charged compound interest and an owner objected. The owner won the case.

On another point I would be careful about listing non-payers. The laws of libel in Thailand are quite draconian.

If a unit is totally abandoned then it is possible for the condo to get control of the unit, sell it and recover their money. The balance is held for the legitimate owner. But it is time consuming.

When a member has not paid his rightful dues and you put up his name in the list of defaulters, where is the question of libel? As i understand, libel is when you falsely accuse someone with the aim of tarnishing his reputation.

Not in Thailand.

Here causing harm to a person's reputation is libel. Exposing the truth is only a defence if done in the public interest.

There is no necessity to prove 'intent'.

[rayongchelsea]

I agree with KittenKong except it is my understanding that compound interest is not allowed.

Maximum interest is 20% (after 6 months) and that is simple interest. I believe there was a case in Riverside where they charged compound interest and an owner objected. The owner won the case.

On another point I would be careful about listing non-payers. The laws of libel in Thailand are quite draconian.

If a unit is totally abandoned then it is possible for the condo to get control of the unit, sell it and recover their money. The balance is held for the legitimate owner. But it is time consuming.

When a member has not paid his rightful dues and you put up his name in the list of defaulters, where is the question of libel? As i understand, libel is when you falsely accuse someone with the aim of tarnishing his reputation.

Not in Thailand.

Here causing harm to a person's reputation is libel. Exposing the truth is only a defence if done in the public interest.

There is no necessity to prove 'intent'.

If the committee agree to publish those who are late payers who is responsibility for libel. Not a problem for us.

We list the room numbers of those overdue after 9 months.If they are on the listing it is because of his or her own actions, we remind them monthly. We send them the fine accumulation monthly. We explain how the fine is calculated. They are informed that a list will be put on the display board. They are fully informed.

We send 3 notices for payment. After that we engage a lawyer..which we have had to do unfortunately.

[trogers]

Bring them to court. In fact, the Juristic Manager is obligated to do just that.

Some law firms are willing to charge a % on amounts awarded by the court if you have a sufficient large number of non-paying co-owners.

[natway09]

I cannot agree with you topt, if you have no way of contacting the so called "owner" water & electricity cut off 10 years ago

no sign of any way to correspond, obviously key card issue not relevant where do you go from there.?

We have some 16 units unoccupied as above,

The courts are not interested & there is at present no law to allow the Juristic Committee to sell the units to recoup

outgoings.

If anybody has done this successfully (meaning unit owner changed on the title legally) would like to hear from you

[natway09]

Maestro,

This does not help if they are not contactable. The Juristic Act & strata titling act need to be tightened up like:

No contact & no outgoings paid in 8 years unit can be auctioned off (first option for existing owners/tenants) that are current

[tolsti]

I owned a condo for in Fla as an investment.

The most viable solution would be an advertisement in a Miami, Fla newspaper for a Condo Commando Consultant. They can do anything. It amazes me that governments don't employ them.

Do they have work permits? Can they speak/read Thai?

I would love to employ western management in our building, but the option just isn't there.

Contact one of the big property management agents. They have Western Management and considerable expertise. They aren't cheap but you will get transparent accountable managers.

[KittenKong]

I cannot agree with you topt, if you have no way of contacting the so called "owner" water & electricity cut off 10 years ago

no sign of any way to correspond, obviously key card issue not relevant where do you go from there.?

We have some 16 units unoccupied as above,

The courts are not interested & there is at present no law to allow the Juristic Committee to sell the units to recoup

outgoings.

If anybody has done this successfully (meaning unit owner changed on the title legally) would like to hear from you

It's not really a question of changing the unit owner name. It's a question of selling the unit and recovering the debt.

If you are talking about condos then once the debt reaches a significant amount the building's lawyer can apply to the court to have the unit sold. I personally know of two instances when this has happened with condos, but in both those cases the name and address of the owner was known. I dont know what would happen if the owner's details are not known.

I have no idea if or how it could apply to houses either.

[KittenKong]

have work permits? Can they speak/read Thai?

I would love to employ western management in our building, but the option just isn't there.

Contact one of the big property management agents. They have Western Management and considerable expertise. They aren't cheap but you will get transparent accountable managers.

I did some time ago. They weren't very interested.

Maybe I should try again.

[masuk]

I live in a gated community where you need a keycard to enter and exit by car. If you don't pay your fees or dues, you don't get a keycard. Problem solved, unless you don't have a car.

We have the same set-up, but the problem is that owners all paid when the remote keys were issued, but now a year later 17 (all Thai) have defaulted on their maintenance. So unless you change the keys every year, an expensive proposition, it's very hard to make them pay. I can see the writing on the wall, now that 17 out of 39 have defaulted, the rest will start to drop out as well, myself included. These bloody free-loaders want all the facilities like street lighting, road sweeping, pool maintenance, security etc, for free. They just don't seem to grasp how quickly a village will go downhill once it's not maintained, which of course affects property values.

Is it possible to change the code, as they do in hotels, and only financial members get the new card and code?

No. It's not a key card it's a remote to open the gates. There is still security there as well in case someone forgets their remote, but it would require everyone to be issued with new remotes to prevent access. There's no easy answer unfortunately.

Surely the machine which reads the cards can have a code-change?

or else, everybody gets 14 days warning (true or not true) that only financial members will be able to bring their cars through the gate after a certain date.. That might get their attention.

[topt]

I cannot agree with you topt, if you have no way of contacting the so called "owner" water & electricity cut off 10 years ago

no sign of any way to correspond, obviously key card issue not relevant where do you go from there.?

We have some 16 units unoccupied as above,

The courts are not interested & there is at present no law to allow the Juristic Committee to sell the units to recoup

outgoings.

If anybody has done this successfully (meaning unit owner changed on the title legally) would like to hear from you

Kindly make sure you are quoting the right person - I made no statements for you to disagree with and only asked two questions so have no idea what you are talking about