Double Pricing - Fairprice-thailand.org

[GuestHouse]

BlueCat,

Dual pricing is a symptom of a society that has not come to terms with the fact that there are people living and working in Thailand that are not ethnic Thais.

That's not just you and me, that includes all ethnic minorities.

A fair and equitible society is good for everyone.

It's not about what is good or not good for the Thais, it is about what is good for

THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND, not all of whom are ethnic Thais.

[Bluecat]

It's not about what is good or not good for the Thais, it is about what is good for

THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND, not all of whom are ethnic Thais.

So, you mean you fight the dual pricing for the minorities of Thailand which are not ethnic Thai?

Sorry I did not understand you, your fight is a good fight,...

[Yohan]

Do you think abolishing the dual pricing will make the life of the Thai people better?

Will it make Thailand a more developped country, caring more for its poor people?

Thank you, Bluecat, for posting this interesting question:

Who is really receiving the profit out of dual pricing?

1- The profit out of dual pricing does not benefit the ordinary people at all. Dual pricing related surplus is collected by companies related mostly to tourist business, like hotels, restaurants, entrance fees, transportation and will finally end in the pockets of some rich THAI and FOREIGN owners and shareholders.

With or without dual pricing, nothing will change for the ordinary Thai people. They never had any profit out of it....

2- I do not know a single country in this world, which was economically successful and became a developed country with this kind of strategy. Dual pricing is related to the communist administration system, for the reason to collect hard currency. It has nothing to do with bargain.

3- Yes, I think, abolishing dual pricing will make the life of the Thai people better in the long term - no developed country in this world allows to operate businesses, where customers are charged according to their nationalities.....

dual pricing is simply said the wrong way to earn money....

4- Some companies, which make their living out of dual pricing might disappear, but soon others will show up, which can do it better and cheaper, better and cheaper means for all of us...all foreigners and all Thais.

Closing of such companies, which can survive only through dual pricing, will help to improve confidence in the tourist business in Thailand, and also in other business as well.

Johann

[Bluecat]

Forgive me, Yohan, if I miss the point again but if somebody has to complain about the dual pricing, it should be the Thai, not the foreigners. If Thai people do not get anything from it, let them say it. We are FOREIGNERS, not Thai, who are we to judge what is good or bad for them?

[Axel]

Yohan, I do understand your frustration. For me, I do not need to see another copulating waterfall. Dual price, I just don't go.

Across the border., that's in Vietnam, they just abolished the foreigner's prices for domestic airline tickets. Time to do something in Thailand, but, I know, it will never happen.

One thing I learned in this forum some months ago, show your Thai driving licence and you get local prices, or...

Shigata ga nai, me thinks, is the translation for mai pen rai.

[Yohan]

Forgive me, Yohan, if I miss the point again but if somebody has to complain about the dual pricing, it should be the Thai, not the foreigners. If Thai people do not get anything from it, let them say it. We are FOREIGNERS, not Thai, who are we to judge what is good or bad for them?

Bluecat, you really have the night of good questions:

Foreigner or Thai is not the question, the question is, who pays.....If you pay for something, then you have a right out of it.

If you sit on the same table, and your neighbour pays baht 200,- and you pay baht 500,- for the same service....then I think, you have the right to ask why.

If you enter a garden and you pay baht 200,- and your friend pays baht 10,-, then I think you have the right to ask why.

If you are invited for a business in Thailand, and you as the foreigner are willing to invest for that business, then you as the foreigner have the right to make conditions, how YOUR money has to be used.

This is not a question of how foreigners JUDGE the THAI.....

I do not JUDGE the Thai........

It is the question that this is MY money, and that I have the right to ask, why I have to pay more.....

Of course, there is one point, we both for sure will agree.....

if there is no result out of negotiations, then you as the foreigner have the right to withdraw.....

Do not go there.... do not use these kind of services......

Do you think, this is better for Thailand?

However there are reports, that the foreigner even was not informed, that there is a dual pricing......

I think, the FOREIGNER has the right to ask, why this is done in that way - because it is HIS money.

Best regards,

Johann

[Bluecat]

Of course, there is one point, we both for sure will agree.....

if there is no result out of negotiations, then you as the foreigner have the right to withdraw.....

Do not go there.... do not use these kind of services......

Do you think, this is better for Thailand?

I think it does not really matter for Thailand.

This is "peanuts" in terms of money for Thailand.

So you will ask me, why do they do it?

Because it is Thailand (and I could elaborate on it but I won't do it, today, anyway),...

[GuestHouse]

BlueCat,

I have a question for you.

Why do you (you're not Thai) not like the idea of other non Thais camainging to be treated fairly in Thailand?

Precisely what is it that troubles you about people deciding they want to do something about an issue that they feel is unfair and that they feel targets them?

You are not Thai, so please don't tell us what is good or bad for the Thais, tell us why you think activism amoung foreign residents of Thailand is wrong, from your own personal point of view.

I doubt it has anything to do with what is good or bad for Thailand, the Thais can look after that themselves.

[Bluecat]

Why do you (you're not Thai) not like the idea of other non Thais camainging to be treated fairly in Thailand?

I have nothing against the idea. This is for me time spent (wasted) on an issue that does not deserve it.

But anyway, it is your time, not mine,...

[Yohan]

This dual pricing thing is "killing" quite a few people in this forum, this is probably why most of us do not reply anymore.

With 98 postings and 1605 views at the moment this topic is still running remarkable good, compared to comments on other subjects. -

It seems users like to read about it, and like to comment about it.....

I think, generally to create a databank about places in Thailand, where you feel, you are overpriced because you are a foreigner, is a very good idea.

Most such cases are reported, commented and soon forgotten.....To collect such information like a database is useful.

Time-wasting.... maybe you are right....but on the other side, why not to try?

Johann

[GuestHouse]

BlueCat,

Forgive me, I don't intend to make a personal attack on you just because you have a different view from that of my own.

My appoligies if it comes accross as that.

I'm just curious to understand the resistance some foreigners in Thailand feel towards other foreigners wanting to change a few things that are clearly unfair to all foreigners.

With regards to wasting time, I hope it is not because I regard this issue as the foot in the door to getting recognition that we are here and here to stay.

But that asside, from a personal point of view, setting up the website and learning about online databases, password protection and all that stuff has been enormously rewarding and fun.

If I can get to do some good at the same time that's great too and who knows, maybe these nes skills will come in handy to challenge those other 'pressing issues' that you mention.

Again my sincere appologies if anything I have written here appears to be an attack on you personaly.

[Yohan]

Yohan, I do understand your frustration. For me, I do not need to see another  copulating waterfall. Dual price, I just don't go.

Across the border., that's in Vietnam, they just abolished the foreigner's prices for domestic airline tickets.

Hi, Axel,

Thanks for your information, that Vietnam, a truly socialist orientated country, abolished domestic airline dual pricings for the foreigners.

Dual pricing because of different nationality is a remain out of the old communist administration....and has no future anymore.

What Thailand need, is competition....Competition, which is not like *peanuts* and only then, something really might change....

Vietnam too, is still far away even to catch up to Thailands so-called *poor* living standard, but they are working on it.

One of the next step, under bi-lateral consultation at the moment is to abolish visas for all Japanese, who are entering Vietnam as tourists and a strong improvement of airline connection and new hotel projects.....

Most arguments I can hear from Thais are, that they are all so poor, and that all is so cheap....

But Thailand, compared to the neighbouring countries, is not so *poor* anymore, and its labour charges are not so *cheap* anymore....

Somebody wrote about a Burma maid for baht 2500,- and sure, no Thai girl will work for that anymore for one full month in Thailand....

Vietnam and several more countries in that area are poorer and cheaper.... this is the fact - and should they continue to develope the tourism industry, you might expect many people not to visit Thailand anymore...

I do not talk about some individual travellers, but I can imagine, that our 3 very old family members might leave their yearly baht 180.000,- hotel-invoice in another nearby country. I can also image, that my retirement budget of 8 million baht might move into another country.

If you have a Thai wife and personal connection into Thailand, this is another matter, but many people - our family too - do not have such close relationship, we can retire somewhere else...and if this place is nicer, why not?

Johann

[Bluecat]

Again my sincere appologies if anything I have written here appears to be an attack on you personaly.

I did not see it that way, no offense at all.

[Yohan]

Again my sincere appologies if anything I have written here appears to be an attack on you personaly.

I did not see it that way, no offense at all.

I agree with Bluecat.....

A personal attack is totally different....

If somebody interested, I will send you some personal attacks as samples for your information. Copies of originals, which I find sometimes in my mailbox....

Johann

[Bluecat]

If somebody interested, I will send you some personal attacks as samples for your information. Copies of originals, which I find sometimes in my mailbox....

Johann

Could be a nice topic, actually,...

[plachon]

Firstly, thanks for all these thought-provoking views on the twin-issues of multiple pricing on the basis of race, nationality, etc., and secondly, whether it is an issue deserving of Guesthouse's efforts to campaign/enlighten others on the subject. IMHO price iscrimination of whatever sort, wherever in the worldis wrong and I will go out of my way to avoid businesses (govt's included) that practice it. Sometimes difficult admittedly, but not impossible and Thailand is perhaps slighly worse than most in "officially" endorsing it through the Nat. Parks and historic attractions differentials in pricing policy. I avoid them as a result, thus denying the govt. and local businesses the chance to make something from my custom, rather than nothing. This is the way I feel personally, and it reflects badly against Thailand that it is practiced so blatantly with no rational explanation offered, so that if someone is making an effort to lift this practice to a wider plane of knowledge for Thais and foreigners alike to understand and react to, then I applaud it. This is not to suggest that there are not more important social justice issues which need addressing, and I personally spend more of my time worrying about those, but it's still a positive step forward.

Keep at it Guesthouse!

[Axel]

Johann,

Japanese now can visit VN without visa and stay up to 2 weeks.

As for dual pricing, I believe VN is learning faster than Thailand. Of course it still exists. I remember a temple in Vungtau cost 20 times more to enter for me than for my VN hosts. They got it down to local price, explaining that I am their guest and the government company has to pay.

The Cuchi tunnels are off my list, after having been there nearly 10 times. But I understand they do have different fees.

No harm done to both Thailand and Vietnam to point out that the dual pricing can hurt. Usually, I do not need to visit any more parks or croc farms or whatever, and, same as you, I do not have family-connections in Thailand. So I stay here as long as biz is reasonably ok and/or as long as I like it.

Without roots I can move, if the situation changes.

[meemiathai]

Somebody wrote about a Burma maid for baht 2500,- and sure, no Thai girl will work for that anymore for one full month in Thailand....

And you farangs call this FAIR? This is EXPLOITATION. And no one is saying a bloody word!!!!!!!! Fantastic double farang standards!!!

[meemiathai]

Let's put it that way; supposed IF there is a country which is very wealthy, (a lot of oil), and its citizens do not have to work. They go into restaurants, eat and leave, to supermkts, take and leave, visit parks and zoos free of charge, go to the petrol stations, get gasoline and leave. The government pay for everything! Would you as a tourist, shamelessly enough ask the govt. to treat you the same. IS THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH?

Last year during the SARS period, a jewels or watches(don't remember) exhibition was being held in Switzerland where suppliers and customers all over the world get to meet. The Swiss govt. blatantly banned all the HK suppliers from entering the exhibition cntrs whilst them being allowed into the country after being quarantined. The excuse was the fear of the SARS spreading! Make sense? Fair competition? Everyone sees what you are doing, Switzerland! This is called bullying. Dirty! Shame on you!

[Yohan]

Somebody wrote about a Burma maid for baht 2500,- and sure, no Thai girl will work for that anymore for one full month in Thailand....

And you farangs call this FAIR? This is EXPLOITATION. And no one is saying a bloody word!!!!!!!! Fantastic double farang standards!!!

You yourself told me, all Thai people are so poor....

but as you see, some other nations are much poorer.....

not so few are entering Thailand in search for work..... so maybe Thailand is not even so poor......

I wonder, in Thailand if you make a fair dual pricing, people from Burma or Vietnam will pay 5 x LESS than the Thais, when entering a national park......

Double standards? Why do you think, all these girls from Burma like to work in a house of a foreigner for only baht 2500,- per month?

Because the Thai people, who are all so poor, will pay her much less (baht 800,- or baht 1000,- per month) - will treat her worse (shouting and kicking and beating her) - will give her the worst room and the worst food - and will force her for hard work.....

First of all, the Thais must abolish their double standard towards the others.....

I, as the foreigner from Europe with Japanese family, yes, we are good off......

But ask the other foreigners, who are entering Thailand as illegal workers or as refugees, what they are considering as a land of smile.....

OK, clean up your own place first and request all Thai nationals, that they treat such people respectfully and that they pay all foreign Asian workers in all Thailand the same as you are paying to the Thai workers.

Johann

[meemiathai]

Because the Thai people, who are all so poor, will pay her much less (baht 800,- or baht 1000,- per month) - will treat her worse (shouting and kicking and beating her) - will give her the worst room and the worst food - and will force her for hard work.....

So the farangs are nice people because they treat them less badly....

[meemiathai]

OK!OK! The Thais are as rich as the farangs. Or maybe should say richer than the farangs. Should've been able to notice it earlier. It is so obvious. Should be time for me to shut up.

[meemiathai]

Because the Thai people, who are all so poor, will pay her much less (baht 800,- or baht 1000,- per month) - will treat her worse (shouting and kicking and beating her) - will give her the worst room and the worst food - and will force her for hard work.....

So the farangs are nice people because they treat them less badly....

Illegal nice people

[Yohan]

Supposed if there is a country which is very wealthy, (a lot of oil), and its citizens do not have to work.  They go into restaurants, eat and leave, to supermkts, take and leave, visit parks and zoos free of charge, go to the petrol stations, get gasoline and leave.  The government pay for everything!  Would you as a tourist, shamelessly enough ask the govt. to treat you the same.  IS THAT SIMPLE ENOUGH?

Sorry, but your economic knowledge is not really good - some mistakes with your explications:

Something wrong: Wealthy IRAQ has much oil, but its citizens do have to work, they are poor,but do not have work.......

There is indeed such a country existing in this world fitting exactly your description:

- only one.....it is called North Korea.

And yes, the government pays there for all and everything.....

Or better, this is what they promise to the North Korean citizens.....

And yes, I as a tourist, when entering North Korea, I have to pay all and everything myself.... this is called dual pricing.......This is because all what I need in North Korea, is imported from other countries....They have nothing anymore to offer to the unsatisfied foreigners....

These North Koreans are so happy, that they do not need anything anymore, so the supermarket is empty.... and as they have no cars (they are totally satisfied with their lives, like in a paradise) they do not need any gasoline stand .....and they feel terrible boring, so they like to work, even for lower money than a maid from Burma....

I wonder however, if the Thai people will be happy with your economic ideas....

The Thai are so poor, but the North Korean are even much much poorer......

-----------------------------

Or do you speak about really rich countries....then your calculation is wrong...

(because Thailand is poor, and the visitors are rich!)

Even such governments do not pay for everything..... but all is tax-free, they do not collect taxes....

However who is there to keep such countries running? Who is working there in the mentioned restaurants, hotels, supermarkets, hospitals, gas-stations?......

These are all foreign workers.... there are only few countries like that and small area... Kuwait was a good example, or Monaco, or Andorra in Europe, Brunei in Asia....

You cannot compare that with Thailand, as such countries are rich, and the visitors are the foreigners, who like to work there....

Btw....in such countries is NO dual pricing.... the rich local pay the same as the poor contract workers - very very expensive there everything....and if something is free, like some basic medical treatment, then it is free for everybody.....

Already exploring the whole world about dual pricing.....and it seems it is not very successful.....

Dual pricing has to be abolished....

Johann

[Kan Win]

point taken,

my comment was made on previous post of farangs being cheap,

i will happily go out and spend a couple of thousand baht in a beer bar but why 200% more in a park just to see a waterfall, and thats after walking for 25 mins tripping over rocks etc.

Why I do visit places in Thailand as you mentioned? (not the beer bars that you go to and pay thorough your nose, owned or run by some non Thai person – now that is what I call a Rip Off – and not double pricing either. Much more !!! ) is because my Thai family and I enjoy going to these places. I can take photos free of charge at these sites and post them on to the web for all to see free of charge to you and share somethings in my life, and we all have a great day out, no moans or groans about entrance fee by me. Love this Country.

If you don’t want to pay for it – don’t go and moan about it, just sit and spend your 2,000 baht being “Ripped Off” in some beer bar or another. Enjoy.

Welcome to Thailand.

[Yohan]

Last year during the SARS period, a jewels or watches(don't remember) exhibition was being held in Switzerland where suppliers and customers all over the world get to meet. The Swiss govt. blatantly banned all the HK suppliers from entering the exhibition cntrs whilst them being allowed into the country after being quarantined. The excuse was the fear of the SARS spreading! Make sense? Fair competition? Everyone sees what you are doing, Switzerland! This is called bullying. Dirty! Shame on you!

I do not understand, what this text has to do with

DUAL PRICING in Thailand......

But to find back to the topic:

Juwelry or watches......... is there any dual pricing for that in Thailand?

Johann

[meemiathai]

IF

[Yohan]

Why I do visit places in Thailand as you mentioned?  (not the beer bars that you go to and pay thorough your nose, owned or run by some non Thai person – now that is what I call a Rip Off – and not double pricing either. ..............

If you don’t want to pay for it – don’t go and moan about it,  just sit and spend your 2,000 baht being “Ripped Off”  in some beer bar or another.................

A RIP OFF might happen to a Thai as well as to a foreigner.....

Maybe the opposite out of it is called BARGAIN.....

Some Non-Thai people are wasting money in bars and clubs,

And some Thai are doing the same, but it is their money, and their decision, how they spend THEIR money.

This has nothing to do with DUAL PRICING......

Rip off and bargain are not discriminating.....

so it is acceptable.....

DUAL PRICING is based SOLELY on the fact, that one person is a THAI, and the other person is NOT-THAI.....

and this is not acceptable....

Johann

[GuestHouse]

Meemiathai,

There is injustice all over the world, and I agree too few people will fight against it. I'm doing my bit campaigning against double pricing, its not the biggest injustice in the world but it is the one that has got under my skin right now.

It's also the a subject that is very often being discussed by visitors to Thailand, a lot of people do not like this practice.

Moreover it is government sponsored and it is a means of singling out people who are not ethnic Thais.

I do not understand the thinking and motivation of foreigners who argue against foreign residents of Thailand making an effort to improve the way they are treated.

But I will say this. To complaign and campaign for things to be changed to remove discrimination is not being disloyal to the Thais or Thailand.

It is simply saying 'We are here and we want to be treated fairly"

FairPrice-Thailand understands foreigners have no votes in Thailand and no political power, but we can vote with our spending power.

I, and a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand see nothing wrong with wanting to be treated fairly, it's been too long now that people have complained without dealing with the problem.

FairPrice-Thailand, deals with the problem.

Far better than grumbling and doing nothing.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Meemiathai,

There is injustice all over the world, and I agree too few people will fight against it. I'm doing my bit campaigning against double pricing, its not the biggest injustice in the world but it is the one that has got under my skin right now.

It's also the a subject that is very often being discussed by visitors to Thailand, a lot of people do not like this practice.

Moreover it is government sponsored and it is a means of singling out people who are not ethnic Thais.

I do not understand the thinking and motivation of foreigners who argue against foreign residents of Thailand making an effort to improve the way they are treated.

But I will say this. To complaign and campaign for things to be changed to remove discrimination is not being disloyal to the Thais or Thailand.

It is simply saying 'We are here and we want to be treated fairly"

FairPrice-Thailand understands foreigners have no votes in Thailand and no political power, but we can vote with our spending power.

I, and a huge number of foreigners living in Thailand see nothing wrong with wanting to be treated fairly, it's been too long now that people have complained without dealing with the problem.

FairPrice-Thailand, deals with the problem.

Far better than grumbling and doing nothing.

Guesthouse ... what is the attitude of the Tourism Authority of Thailand to discriminatory pricing ?