Maize and Rotational Crops

[wayned]

31 minutes ago, cobbler said:

Wanyed . Is it true u can convert a combine to a cutter and bailer? Square or round bales? Or am i just the most gullible guy on here for even asking?

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I guess that I was just pulling your leg, but if there's a will and you've got the money and time there's a way, which I have neither.  Farmer Joe once sent me a picture of and old JD combine that his brother had made into a sprayer so I guess anything's possible.

[kickstart]

 Cobbler 

             Our Ubon Paspalum , for us is a grazing grass   we do not do a cut and cart system , our cattle go out grazing every day ,Nappier silage was intended as  cool/dry season feed , but now we feed it every day.

Cattle are selective  grazers ,and as I said, for the past 2 years  has not been grass for grazing years , rains come late, then almost  in one short period , cattle would eat the young Paspaium ,but the regrowth thay would only eat  tips of the plant ,and a few young shots , the rest of the plant would grow old and unplatable ,I could have toped the whole field ,down to snooker table hight ,and it would have grown up again as young grass ,but we do not have a  grass  topper.

On a cut and cart system ,Paspaium would work could be cut more regular , but we have enough to do without cutting grass every day ,we cut the tree legume  gratin most days ,that is enough.

Our Nappier Packchon  II was 60 -70 days old when it was cut  , it was not an evon crop ,some in the open ,and some along  tree  fence line  ,where it was in the shade ,Nappier grass dose not like shade, grows stunted,hence some at 70 day ,left it to see if the stunted grass would grow more,  it did not. 

Not certain what you mean ,we do not sell our grass we feed it all  , but in this area, it is almost an industry selling bagged maize silage , I wrote a piece a while ago about making maize silage .

Some farmers have made Nappier grass silage and sold it ,but the quality was not good ,old grass and wet ,a few years ago we brought some ,put 25% on the field as manual , that was all it was fit for.

If I brought in all our feed we would not made a profit, we use to rear dairy heifers  to buy in young heifers feed them up .get them in calf and sell them , but like wayned and his pigs , the market was volatile ,buy expensive and sell cheap ,then we brought in everything , maize silage ,concentrate ,and brewers  grains , plus minerals ,our margins where low to non existent, now we have beef cows ,and sell they offspring at about 1 year old,make our own silage ,cut Gratin ,the tree legume , still feed  concentrate and brewers  grains ,now we make a bit, labour intencive I know ,but it works for us .

Breed has a lot to do with it, the popular long  ears , breed , Indo Brazil, make  bad beef breeds ,all leg and ears ,we are using Angus , and Brangus  crosses , which grow well , one of our local cattle dealer likes them,  and wil soon buy them from us Charalias work well ,must be crossed with a Brahman ,more than 75 % Charalias blood, cattle will suffer from heat stress.

Drugs and vitamins are not that expensive,25kg bag of minerals  340 bart ,will keep me going for a couple of moths ,a  5 kg salt lick 240 bart from New Zealand ,will last a few months ,dueing the hot  season less so .

One problem we have had is lungworm in the calves, due to too many cattle on a small area, calves have no natural  resistance, but a worm drench  soon sorts  the problem out, again  drugs not expencive. 

 

 

   

[cobbler]

My wife told me if u want stuff made,. Go to a uni . Theyll build something for u as a project

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[John Sebastion]

I live in buriram area and need a supplier of chopped corn for a cattle operation. About 120 bags per month

[Ronaldo777]

I have 500 bags being delivered they will quote them being 20 kilos but i guess will vary between 18 to 20 kilos i am paying 30 baht per bag free delivery and unload they will be delivered on 6 wheel lorry . If you order 200 bags they will deliver on pick up truck but will charge you 31 or 32 baht per bag . 

 In the city buriram have sellers 35 baht per bag but those bags only weigh 16 to 17 kilos also KK farm just outside the city sell i think 35 baht a bag and also sell feed protein 21 and 18 percent and will deliver .

 

Hope this helps pm if you need anymore info . 

 

 

[John Sebastion]

It helps but I need a reference,  price and delivery is good.  Any information where to find or communicate with the producer will lead me to the needed results.  Appreciate the price information.  I now pay 35 and haul it myself.  My usage has reached my work limit and I need delivery.

[Ronaldo777]

32 baht 18/20 kilo bags delivery free on 200 bags . I will pm you phone number they are delivering to buriram on monday or tuesday . 

[Ronaldo777]

0933633674 is the phone number . 

 

After you have the first delivery if you have a second delivery they will sell you for 30 baht a bag if you return the empty bag of previous delivery . 

 

Hope this helps . 

[John Sebastion]

This is like Christmas makes me very happy.  Thanks for your assistance, and who says there is a lack of good people in the world.

[Ronaldo777]

6 hours ago, John Sebastion said:

This is like Christmas makes me very happy.  Thanks for your assistance, and who says there is a lack of good people in the world.

Let me know how you get on john he should deliver you 100 bags because he wants drop 500 into me on monday or tuesday and i am only taking 400 . The feed is good double bagged will last 2 to 3 months . When cut fresh like this deivery is its being cut today try to leave 5 days before start feeding .  

[Ronaldo777]

On 05/11/2017 at 12:16 AM, John Sebastion said:

This is like Christmas makes me very happy.  Thanks for your assistance, and who says there is a lack of good people in the world.

400 bags delivered today . 

[Ronaldo777]

I want to check the price of maize per kilo/ tonne at present if anyone knows . 

[kickstart]

At this time you are at about at the end of the season for maize ,and it might depend on where you are  , here in Lopburi we are about done ,saw one crop to  day with cobs on ,but not full ,needs some more rain which it will not get .it will end up as cattle feed .

I would say the price would be 5-5.50 baht /kg .

Looking at Thai TV and the floods in Issan ,I would say the price would be higher supply and demand .

 

 

 be

 

 

[Ronaldo777]

10 hours ago, kickstart said:

At this time you are at about at the end of the season for maize ,and it might depend on where you are  , here in Lopburi we are about done ,saw one crop to  day with cobs on ,but not full ,needs some more rain which it will not get .it will end up as cattle feed .

I would say the price would be 5-5.50 baht /kg .

Looking at Thai TV and the floods in Issan ,I would say the price would be higher supply and demand .

 

 

 be

 

 

Ok thanks i managed to source what i needed but had to pay 8.5 baht for nice quality maize . 

[Ronaldo777]

Paid 8500 a tonne . 

[cobbler]

400 bags delivered today . 

Pardon my ignorance. What type of grass is it please?

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[kickstart]

23 hours ago, cobbler said:

Pardon my ignorance. What type of grass is it please?

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Looking at past posts ,I  think it corn silage .

[Ronaldo777]

On 18/11/2017 at 1:17 PM, cobbler said:

Pardon my ignorance. What type of grass is it please?

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Yes its corn silage . Corn silage can be ordered in different cuts a fine cut thats small or long leafy cut . Can be ordered bagged 32 baht for 18 to 20 kilo bags can be tipped and you use your own bags and bag it thats one baht a kilo . There is also a long leafy cut which has the cobs mixed in that two baht a kilo . They will bring you a reciept from the mill showing weight for delivery . Hope this helps .....

[CLW]

Yes its corn silage . Corn silage can be ordered in different cuts a fine cut thats small or long leafy cut . Can be ordered bagged 32 baht for 18 to 20 kilo bags can be tipped and you use your own bags and bag it thats one baht a kilo . There is also a long leafy cut which has the cobs mixed in that two baht a kilo . They will bring you a reciept from the mill showing weight for delivery . Hope this helps .....

Wondering if the supplier makes any profit with 1 Thb per kg / 1000 Thb per ton...

[kickstart]

I am intrigued, in my area making maize silage is almost an industry,  being a big dairy cow area, we have made it in the past ,all maize/corn  , silage is made from a growing crop ,cut and chopped , and bagged.

 So, what type of corn silage is it that comes from a "mill", is it from a canning factory? , any photographs, of the silage would be nice .

Also, around here a 25kg bag of silage is 50-55 baht, that is with grain ,silage with no grain is 45 baht/bag.

[Ronaldo777]

10 hours ago, kickstart said:

I am intrigued, in my area making maize silage is almost an industry,  being a big dairy cow area, we have made it in the past ,all maize/corn  , silage is made from a growing crop ,cut and chopped , and bagged.

 So, what type of corn silage is it that comes from a "mill", is it from a canning factory? , any photographs, of the silage would be nice .

Also, around here a 25kg bag of silage is 50-55 baht, that is with grain ,silage with no grain is 45 baht/bag.

Sorry i meant slip for tonnage using weigh station at the mill . 

[CLW]

Anyone did / doing sorghum, sunflower or other oil crops?
Is the average profit higher than with corn?

[kickstart]

If it is what I think it is , canning waist ,we have had it around here ,last year I feed my cattle on canning waist ,for a few weeks , corn, mixed with pineapple waist I paid ,45 baht,25kg .

Problem with canning waist is the feed quality, protein  about  3-4 %, the main  problem is the   DM, dry matter ,it is a wet feed ,with a  DM  of about 20% , or 1 kg is 20% feed and 80% water, when  feeding it you will need a 14-16% concentrate  ,plus some minerals ,would be ok for a few beef cattle,but cattle with  a high percent of Indo Brazile  blood ,will not do so well , around here it was feed to dairy cattle ,but did not do a lot to the milk yeild , just to wet , and not enough enagey in the feed .

@CLW.    Sorghum, use to be grown  in this area a lot, fallen by the wayside now , use to be grown as a second crop after maize, likes a lot of  fertizer to do any good, and  uesd to be havested by hand, my miisses has done it said it iched  you all the time ,then you had to get the mobile thasher in .,to thrash out the grain  ,another hot dusty,noisey   job, by the time the combins arived ,it had lost popualaty ,we grew 25 rie combined  it  ,and lost a good few bart ,that was a red sorghum ,now there is a white sorhum hybrid  grown mainly as cattle feed. 

 

Sunflowers have ,you could say,  has replaced sorghum, they has been a fair bit wrote about sunflowers on this thread, now a popular crop, grown after maize , and now direct drilled in to the field ,and that's it , wait for it to grow ,then combine the crop,normally  no fertilizer or sprays are applied, on a downside the cost of the seed ,we grew it once ,a long time ago, then it was10 kg of seed 2600 Bart .

Look in TV's Central Thailand forum , past 2 weeks, a bit written about sunflowers.

[Ronaldo777]

6 hours ago, kickstart said:

If it is what I think it is , canning waist ,we have had it around here ,last year I feed my cattle on canning waist ,for a few weeks , corn, mixed with pineapple waist I paid ,45 baht,25kg .

Problem with canning waist is the feed quality, protein  about  3-4 %, the main  problem is the   DM, dry matter ,it is a wet feed ,with a  DM  of about 20% , or 1 kg is 20% feed and 80% water, when  feeding it you will need a 14-16% concentrate  ,plus some minerals ,would be ok for a few beef cattle,but cattle with  a high percent of Indo Brazile  blood ,will not do so well , around here it was feed to dairy cattle ,but did not do a lot to the milk yeild , just to wet , and not enough enagey in the feed .

@CLW.    Sorghum, use to be grown  in this area a lot, fallen by the wayside now , use to be grown as a second crop after maize, likes a lot of  fertizer to do any good, and  uesd to be havested by hand, my miisses has done it said it iched  you all the time ,then you had to get the mobile thasher in .,to thrash out the grain  ,another hot dusty,noisey   job, by the time the combins arived ,it had lost popualaty ,we grew 25 rie combined  it  ,and lost a good few bart ,that was a red sorghum ,now there is a white sorhum hybrid  grown mainly as cattle feed. 

 

Sunflowers have ,you could say,  has replaced sorghum, they has been a fair bit wrote about sunflowers on this thread, now a popular crop, grown after maize , and now direct drilled in to the field ,and that's it , wait for it to grow ,then combine the crop,normally  no fertilizer or sprays are applied, on a downside the cost of the seed ,we grew it once ,a long time ago, then it was10 kg of seed 2600 Bart .

Look in TV's Central Thailand forum , past 2 weeks, a bit written about sunflowers.

Kickstart what i tried to say and did not make a good job of it was have two ways to buy from them either by the bag 18 to 20 kilo bags or by the tonne and they will use a weighing station to give you a slip of the weight .

 

Sorry to confuse everyone this is maize sillage nothing to fo with canning waste pineapples just maize silage thats what if is . 

 

Hope this post clears things up . 

[kickstart]

What I am trying to say ,is they are 2 types of maize silage ,the grown maize crop and chopped  for silage ,and what you are feeding the stuff you are feeding ,I still think it is  not a good  quality feed , compared with whole crop maize silage ,as a feed for cattle ,it is ok ,but  you will have to feed some form of  supplementary  feed , or you find that beef cattle will not grow as you expected, and with  any breeding cows ,you could have an infertility problem .

As for my quote about pinapple ,it was mixed with  the maize ,more maize than pineapple  but still  the same type of feed .

Regards.

KS

[Ronaldo777]

17 hours ago, kickstart said:

What I am trying to say ,is they are 2 types of maize silage ,the grown maize crop and chopped  for silage ,and what you are feeding the stuff you are feeding ,I still think it is  not a good  quality feed , compared with whole crop maize silage ,as a feed for cattle ,it is ok ,but  you will have to feed some form of  supplementary  feed , or you find that beef cattle will not grow as you expected, and with  any breeding cows ,you could have an infertility problem .

As for my quote about pinapple ,it was mixed with  the maize ,more maize than pineapple  but still  the same type of feed .

Regards.

KS

Yes this is the grown maize crop and chopped for silage . 

[kickstart]

6 hours ago, Ronaldo777 said:

Yes this is the grown maize crop and chopped for silage . 

Thanks a lot , first time I have heard of chopped corn delivered to a farm for bagging.

. We make grass silage ,and a plastic  bag and old feed outer bag ,costs me 5 baht  each ,one bag is about 25 kg . 

So, bagging the  silage yourself would work out a lot cheaper, than buying in  bagged silage. good idea. 

[IsaanAussie]

Have you guys tried to ferment this stuff rather than make silage? 

[John Sebastion]

Chopped corn is estimated at 12 percent protein what amount per beef cow to get a reasonable increase in gross weight?

[kickstart]

Maize silage has a low protein ,5-10%, it's maine benefit is the high  energy and starch compared  to grass silage , and here in Thailand a higher dry matter compared with grass silage, especially Nappier silage.

But the protein comes from the grain , here in Thailand you can get maize silage with or without grain ,a silage without grain could be as low as 4 % protein.

How much to feed to a beef cow ,how is long   piece of string ,if you have a low  grain silage ,and feed silage only ,and the breed has a high percent of Indo Brazil  blood in it ,LWG , live weight gain, will be low , just not enough protein and energy in the diet .

In the uk we use to feed up to 25 kg of silage maize to a dairy cow /day  ,plus a 16-18% concentrat ,plus brewers grains ,or say sugar beet pulp . and the farm made there own silage.

But that is the uk, not Thailand here in LOS here maize silage is brought in , a cost, say you have 12 cattle eating say 20kg silage/day , you work out the cost , and you will still have to feed some concentrate  to get any LWG ,plus some minerals .

So,Thai beef cattal are not like our , Charalais , Simemtile breeds ,that need a good diet to grow , I would say  10 kg of silage and say 3 kg of a14-16% concentrate ,but again , a freshly calved cow would need more feed , to prvide milk for the calf , and prevent weight loss, and you can get her back in calf  at ,about 80  days after calving ,but a cow with no calf , say 5  months in calf , will requie less feed ,she is not doing any thing just ticking over waiting to calve. 

 

Ronaldo777, said his silage has long leaves in it ,that is good for rumen digestion, around here maize silage is  chopped very short , have seen a lot of  cows with indidestion  ,that can go on to rumen acidosis , to prevent it feed  some bicarbonate of soda and  feed some rice straw ,long fiber helps rumen digestion .