Poll: Wasted resource -- Expats retired in Thailand, volunteer work, and work permits

[The Deerhunter]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

the easiest solution to this one in, is that a volunteers "WP" could be only issued against an existing extension of stay be it for retirement or married persons, there would be no "volunteer visa" and the condition of issue is that if any gets caught being paid for their "volunteering" they would lose both their "WP" and extension of stay.

Going the above route would ensure persons volunteering where already in Thailand for legitimate reasons

Absolutely brilliant idea! It would get around the obvious serious potential for abuse very neatly. I personally have a retirement visa and possess skills that are in demand but I cannot offer them & my nature of trying to keep busy and help people is frustrated at a loss to everyone.

[northernjohn]

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If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

the easiest solution to this one in, is that a volunteers "WP" could be only issued against an existing extension of stay be it for retirement or married persons, there would be no "volunteer visa" and the condition of issue is that if any gets caught being paid for their "volunteering" they would lose both their "WP" and extension of stay.

Going the above route would ensure persons volunteering where already in Thailand for legitimate reasons

The one thing I would like to add to that is make it easy to obtain the volunteer permit. As it is here in Chiang Mai that would probably be a nightmare. Bangkok refuses to properly staff the office here.

As for the OPs quote

http://cuencahighlif...-learn-spanish/

Quote

Many expats participate in volunteer activities that help the community, either through non-profit organizations, churches or private initiatives. They help in such causes as providing meals to poor school children and offering companionship to orphans. A friend who works with a domestic violence program says gringos have been a god-send to her center.

Isn't it legal to do those things here any how. Donating food or money and playing with kids is that illegal?

[The Deerhunter]

You've got an interior minister who is shaking up somewhat the processes to have a modicum more common sense. He's just exempted a range of activities that don't require work permits.

Make a representation. People do all the time. Just make sure you have a solution.

Can you supply here on TVF a list of these newly exempted activities?

Edited April 24, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[NoshowJones]

If proper checked on it would be a great benefit...just worried about Paedos....

Yeah, Paedos turn up everywhere in the world where there are children, all that can really be said is that they are the scourge of this world

and anyone caught should never ever be allowed within the human race.

[NoshowJones]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

" The authorities will not be going after those folks."

The problem is they can and if someone for whatever reason takes a dislike to you it could be used against you and lead to some very harsh penalties.

Technically yes, but I think Berkshire is right, anyone genuinely helping Thailand by working free will not have anything to worry about.

Schools running English summer camps can't get enough expats to attend and help the children with their English. When the head of the summer camp

saw how I was able to teach English, I was invited to volunteer as a classroom assistant at her school which I did. It then led me to get qualified legally

to work as an English teacher which I did for three years.

[Soutpeel]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

the easiest solution to this one in, is that a volunteers "WP" could be only issued against an existing extension of stay be it for retirement or married persons, there would be no "volunteer visa" and the condition of issue is that if any gets caught being paid for their "volunteering" they would lose both their "WP" and extension of stay.

Going the above route would ensure persons volunteering where already in Thailand for legitimate reasons

Absolutely right. The situation is easily remedied.

The whole system needs a revamp to give married and genuinely retired expats more freedom to live a normal life.

The whole system doesn't need a revamp at all and what "freedoms" are limited now under the current system which don't give someone a "normal life" ?

one suspects there is more "freedom" in Thailand than most of the nanny states people come from in Farangistan

[Ghostnigel]

I would do it to fill in the space between when i get up, to when my 'mrs' gets up... Normally 5 hours later!

[onelasttime]

It really isn't rocket science and could be easily organised but there would need to be a WILLINGNESS by Thai authorities to firstly recognise that there are groups of expats ALREADY RESIDING IN THE COUNTRY WITH RETIREMENT / MARRIAGE /WORK VISAS who could help in a zillions of different ways. I strongly believe that a WORKING WITH CHILDREN police check from both Thailand and the expats home country would be needed.

I can certainly understand that the idea of crowds of wannabe volunteers flooding the visa market would be the worst case scenario..but..here I am, a primary teacher and primary head with over 40 years experience for years, 10 years teaching in Thai international schools.... maybe, just maybe if the Thais took their xenophobic blinkers off they might see some improvements in their country.

just my 2 cents worth

[Tonto21]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

I think your viewing the issue of voluntary work in Thailand though the old system, having to have a "volunteer visa/work permit". I do agree to make the whole getting a volunteer visa or work permit easier would just get abused from the get go.

Lets forget the work permit, just the issue of being a volunteer, I think the system would work if no permit or visa was issued for this. but a volunteer must have a valid visa, be it retirement or tourist, if he/she is in Thailand legally, he or she can do unpaid work.

There of course would be restrictions on the type of 'volunteer' work one could undertake........Helping out in an orphanage....fine, no worries.....working on a farm or building sight......you get the picture!

I also think by opening it up, uncluttered with red tape, this would help stop the abuse of volunteer works.

I don't think it would be perfect, but as good if not better than it is now and both Thai and volunteer would benefit.

[Berkshire]

It really isn't rocket science and could be easily organised but there would need to be a WILLINGNESS by Thai authorities to firstly recognise that there are groups of expats ALREADY RESIDING IN THE COUNTRY WITH RETIREMENT / MARRIAGE /WORK VISAS who could help in a zillions of different ways. I strongly believe that a WORKING WITH CHILDREN police check from both Thailand and the expats home country would be needed.

I can certainly understand that the idea of crowds of wannabe volunteers flooding the visa market would be the worst case scenario..but..here I am, a primary teacher and primary head with over 40 years experience for years, 10 years teaching in Thai international schools.... maybe, just maybe if the Thais took their xenophobic blinkers off they might see some improvements in their country.

just my 2 cents worth

You're making it sound as if there's a conspiracy to prevent retired expats from doing volunteer work when that's not really the case. The Thai government is mostly concerned about illegal immigration and undocumented workers. And saying that it's not "rocket science" is rather disingenuous--it's really not that simple. The ED visa, for example, has been abused for years. If I were to ask you to devise a system, I'm pretty sure whatever you came up with I'd be able to find major problems with.

[Soutpeel]

It really isn't rocket science and could be easily organised but there would need to be a WILLINGNESS by Thai authorities to firstly recognise that there are groups of expats ALREADY RESIDING IN THE COUNTRY WITH RETIREMENT / MARRIAGE /WORK VISAS who could help in a zillions of different ways. I strongly believe that a WORKING WITH CHILDREN police check from both Thailand and the expats home country would be needed.

I can certainly understand that the idea of crowds of wannabe volunteers flooding the visa market would be the worst case scenario..but..here I am, a primary teacher and primary head with over 40 years experience for years, 10 years teaching in Thai international schools.... maybe, just maybe if the Thais took their xenophobic blinkers off they might see some improvements in their country.

just my 2 cents worth

maybe, just maybe if the Thais took their xenophobic blinkers off they might see some improvements in their country.

and with all those 40 years, did you never teach your students that there are always two sides / two perspectives to every issue, playing the race card is always indicative of a person of low intelligence, and they should take their own blinkers off and not to be so hastily in judging people or situations ?

See boys and girls, this is the quality of people who are teaching your children " if the Thais took their xenophobic blinkers off" & Mr Falang knows best

Edited April 24, 2015 by Soutpeel

[slipperylobster]

Very true. Just think of the money Thailand would save on Medical expenses alone,if they used us as volunteer bus drivers. At least let us check out the brakes, tires, lights and horn.

I would certainly tutor college girls, at no expense..should they want to meet me for a beer at the pub.

We could be volunteer jet ski inspectors.

Not to mention voting station monitors. However...Beer quality control would benefit the most.

Edited April 24, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Soutpeel]

Very true. Just think of the money Thailand would save on Medical expenses alone,if they used us as volunteer bus drivers. At least let us check out the brakes, tires, lights and horn.

I would certainly tutor college girls, at no expense..should they want to meet me for a beer at the pub.

Based on what I have seen over the years your certainly don't want any retired farangs teaching the natives how to ride a "motocy" as one would expected a marked increase in injuries amongst the general population

[lujanit]

All legal volunteer work is not unpaid. If you volunteer for a registered 'religious organization, temple, church etc you can accept a stipend or expenses and you don't even have to pay tax on it as these organizations and their workers are exempt from tax.

I know of a foreigner who volunteers for a church and he is paid a significant monthly expense account. No tax and a valid WP.

I would love to do volunteer work yet the whole WP issue puts me off. The idea mentioned above of tying a WP to a long term extension (retirement/marriage) certainly has merit.

[Tony125]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

If visa was not involved say person is already here on marriage or retirement extension of stay then it should not be a problem to just give them a permit to volunteer. They already have a legal reason to stay are not being given a visa to live here just a permit to do volunteer work.

[Benmart]

If proper checked on it would be a great benefit...just worried about Paedos..

I'm more concerned about drug abuse, being run over by drunk drivers and power/water outages.

Volunteers work with all age groups and social strata. That includes services to support bigoted and delusional people.

[mikecat]

This is the thing about Thailand, they always seem to cut off their nose to spite their face. It doesnt seem to matter where you turn or what you want to do they seem to want to make it harder for you and indirectly harder for themselves. Even when you follow the rules they find another rule or a different intepretation. I noticed this with other things like if someone opens a business and does well, four or five more follow right in the same neighborhood and nobody ends updoing well. If something sells well, instead of being content with the good business and profits they jack up the price. So really, why would you want to go through all the trauma of trying to do some work as a volunteer? even if it was legal to do so.

[pomchop]

Doing volunteer work at a local public high school is one of the most rewarding things i have ever done in my life. The kids are desperate to have someone who will actually speak English with them and give them a chance to practice their english. Yes it is a bit of work but watching the kids faces light up with learning and being praised for their english is a reward better than money.

I have never much worried about work permits as I certainly seem to have the full support of the school who actually put me on a bit of a pedestal for being a jai dee farang trying to help. I am of course very careful not to get into any conflicts and to stay completely unpaid. I also try and raise some money and various things like laptops that are donated to the school kids.

I do think that there are literally thousands of farangs that could do a lot in the way of volunteer work but are either too afraid of possible no WP repercussion or just use that as an excuse to NOT help.

I really would like to see the rules changed...with proper precautions in place re pedophiles and weirdos... ...not only would it likely help the kids but i suspect it would also add an extra positive dimension to the lives of a lot of older retired guys who may feel a bit worthless/underutilized but actually have a lot to offer.

[neeray]

Doing volunteer work at a local public high school is one of the most rewarding things i have ever done in my life. The kids are desperate to have someone who will actually speak English with them and give them a chance to practice their english. Yes it is a bit of work but watching the kids faces light up with learning and being praised for their english is a reward better than money.

I have never much worried about work permits as I certainly seem to have the full support of the school who actually put me on a bit of a pedestal for being a jai dee farang trying to help. I am of course very careful not to get into any conflicts and to stay completely unpaid. I also try and raise some money and various things like laptops that are donated to the school kids.

I do think that there are literally thousands of farangs that could do a lot in the way of volunteer work but are either too afraid of possible no WP repercussion or just use that as an excuse to NOT help.

I really would like to see the rules changed...with proper precautions in place re pedophiles and weirdos... ...not only would it likely help the kids but i suspect it would also add an extra positive dimension to the lives of a lot of older retired guys who may feel a bit worthless/underutilized but actually have a lot to offer.

Good answer ! I got told off re my positive comments about grey power and told (not verbatim) that volunteers are self serving and cause more trouble than they are worth ( I chose to ignore such a ridiculous diatribe ). " .... one of the most rewarding things I have ever done in my life" and "..... watching the kid's faces light up...." . You gotta love a win/win story like yours' !

[kannot]

we need an "I ignore the stupid ass rules and help em anyway" box to tick

My local head of village asked me if I could go and check the English speaking staff at the Kasikorn Bank Branch in Pranburi some months back as apparently they had been given some training.

[joshstiles]

even this poll on this site is a wasted resource. Whats the point if the poll unless TV is going to strap on a pair and do something about it....

sounds like they conform to the same horn blowing tactics as the thai govt

just another empty post to fill up space in the mindless

[duidui45]

Funny thing happened today..sitting in my wifes Restaurant in Udon-Thani talking with customers regaring Thailand and the lack of good education..I told my customers of what a Major in Cotaachi/Ecuador wants/welcomes expat to help the community..Can you envision a local Major HERE in THAILAND doing the same as this Major?...Look at the movieclip and tell me want you think..Thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc6K51sqNW0..

Great question JT.

I did a null vote, because I'm not an expat. However, when I come to Thailand I teach English in a village school in Isaan which has never had an NES. The first time it was just a couple of days and last time it was a couple of weeks.

The Thai lady who is my friend is the school English teacher and I would never say "no." I have also really improved her skills via regular emails, and verbally when I'm there. She asks for the help.

BTW I'm not a real teacher, just an NES but I'm a heck of a lot better than nothing. At least I can pronounce the words which this Thai teacher can't. The students now mostly learn writing.

Cheers

[MobileContent]

I done volunteer work for both the Wild Animal Rescue Foundation (Abhisit older brother and English sister in law (Leoni) and as well for Khun Meechai's Tannam Yai Baby Home for HIV infected babies. We raised over 65,000 Baht in one afternoon and passed it on to Khun Meechai at his Carbage and Condom Shop on Sukhumvit.

I even raised 250,000 Baht for both foundations and had both the German and British Embassy involved and back me up.

Other sponsors included Bangkok Bank, Cable & Wireless PLC and Hong Kong Telecom. The money was raised within 30 minutes.

Since then I didn't raised any funds. I did got an offer from the WWF fund in Thailand but they are crap and distribute the funds for salaries internally and the wildlife gets nothing.

I miss the Thailand in the 90's. It was volunteering from your heart and you felt good if you can raise some money for a good reason.

[MobileContent]

Their are many volunteer opportunities in Thailand. It cost around 20-30,000 Baht per month including free lodging to join those opportunities. Farang that wants to join for a free bee are not really needed for just killing their time.

Very mush requested are degrees in English teachings, Social development and psychological development but those volunteer causes cost money.

Their are plenty of Master degree students that are willing to pay to volunteer in Thailand with the right education and the right educational background but not some old guy that doesn't even speak Thai.

I was often asked by many universities if I would be willing to teach Bachelor degrees students on IT such as Java, PHP, XML etc but I told them no as I am not a teacher but I do hold a Bachelor Degree in Southeast Asian Political Science. I did work at AIT in Banglok as a lecturer.

All those retirees that want to jump on the bandwagon because they have nothing to do in Nakon Nowhere are the wrong people's to apply. You are on the retirement visa so enjoy your time off.

Edited April 25, 2015 by MobileContent

[louse1953]

A Thai friend wanted to set up a workshop for local farangs to teach their skills to locals.Also he was worried about farangs wasting their lives,sitting in the bar every day.I then explained the hoops you have to jump through.He is going to get back to me.

[louse1953]

were forgetting why most retirees choose thailand. whoring and booze.

basically, allowing volunteers to stay would just add another loophole for this sketchy population to hang around. also, they are not going to make great volunteers due to their vices and personal problems.

thats not the case with ecuador. the volunteer system there would be more genuine and therefore function with far fewer problems.

Utter rubbish.People take on their habits because they are bored.Give them a purpose in life and watch the results.With a well run schedule i could fit boozing and mongering into volunteer work.

[louse1953]

If proper checked on it would be a great benefit...just worried about Paedos....

That's what i was thinking chef.OA visa already requires police check from home country.Other volunteers would need to get a clearance.

[wow64]

Listening to some of the older retirees whinge on here I am not sure how they could be considered a wasted resource.

Sent from my c64

[JDGRUEN]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

The how about a work permit for volunteer work only for those on a Non Imm Visa and having been in Thailand for a year's time. That would cover a lot of Expats ... and wall out the Volunteer abuse to a great extent by barring other visitors ...

[JDGRUEN]

If a "volunteer visa/work permit" was ever introduced, it would be massively abused. People with no intention of doing volunteer work would come in droves. There would be company after company providing volunteer visa/work permits for a fee. It would be an unmanageable mess. True NGOs who would try to do it legally would find it an administrative nightmare and probably couldn't afford it.

Having said that, I know quite a few expats already doing volunteer work. They give their free time and genuinely want to help and continue to do so. The authorities will not be going after those folks.

It's not like that problem could not be easily solved - for example by restricting such permit to volunteer non-paid work (in any form) and making it uneligible for extensions of stay.

Do you mean as a basis / justification for an extension of stay.. ? Or what ?