News On The New Regulation

[beammeup]

Sunbelt,

I work in Iraq as a Security Contractor.

I have a 1 year rental agreement for an apartment in Phuket that I payed for, 2 months ago.(180000 bath)

I moved to Thailand last year in July and my schedule and TVE looks like this:

In the last year, leading up til Oct.01 I have been in Thailand:

31 Oct-19 Nov (TVE/VOA until 29 Nov)

19 Feb-19 Mar (TVE/VOA until 20 March)

26 Jun-24 Jul (TVE/VOA until 25 July)

01 Aug- 12 Aug (TVE/VOA until 30 August)

Now I get my next leave on 15 October until 31 November....

Which means I have to do a "visa run" on Nov 15, to be able to stay until I go back to work on the 31st...I was planning to go to Singapore for a couple of days to see the sights. But I guess I cant come back, if this is a 3 stamps in a 6 month period...Since on October 15, I get my third stamp in that period....So I wont be able to go back....

Am I correct in that assumption?

And it seems from December Im working two months on, one off...

Somehow I find it uncomprenhensible that Im an "undesireable", as I spend a shitload of money on my leave, as a tourist in a tourist place, I dont break any laws, ride with a helmet on my rented motorbike, etc....

I think they are hitting the wrong people with this legislation....

If they wanted to hit Chinese and Indian workers that just stay and never go back without workpermits, meaning staying as illegal aliens, then they need to target those groups specifically and not just do this shotgunning of all...

Im 35, not planned on getting married, with all these new rules and a shaky government "cracking down" on foreigners, why would any foreigner in my situation (And I know of several that do exactly what I do who live like me in Thailand) then want to invest 3-10 million Bath in a Thai-bank?

hi mate, im also a 35 year old security contarctor in Iraq, im absolutly livid about this toilet decision. Im also in an apartment in BKK and do a rotation on and off that will mean that i should get into Thailand on the 29th Sep, but after this leave period im stuffed. Ive got loads of entry visa in my passport, and even when im back, (which i consider my home now) i sometimnes jet off to nearby countries, which will make it even worse for us now!!!

The only thing i can think of, is trying to get a visa in Dubai on the way through, which im looking into now for future trips home. would mean the pain of hanging around though.... all in all its worse for us i think than anyone (us being expat overseas workers). i already said in a previous post that im already thinking of moving to try a newcountry, but this is just anger showing through. although im wondering if it gets to hard and there is no easy solution for the likes of us, it may have to happen.

(just confirm someone, that even though ive lots of visa stamps in my passport, as long as i enter thailand next toime before oct 1st i wil not be subject to the new law yet and will be able to stay for the 30 days??)

I am an overseas worker as well doing 4weeks x 4. Shouldnt be a problem right. wrong, I went down to singapore to do some shopping last time I was home so I have 1 30day stamp in my passport to many. Now I cant go home to see my wife and 3 kids. I need to get my wife to meet me in Penang to see if I can get some other king of visa. what a bunch of boneheads!!!

by the sounds of things you should be ok as long as u get back into thailand before oct 1st when it actually starts, they will start checking and backdateing, but only when you arrive after oct 1st, so u will have a free month to sort things out. (i hope, if im wrong let me know as im banking on the 29th sep to be able to go for a month before getting sucked into this new garbage)

Unfortunately I change out on the 6th of Oct, but it sounds now like the visa count starts Oct 1st. Should give some more breathing room.

[realthaideal]

why so difficult, send you passport by courier to a consulate, let the courier pick it up and pay your 170 euro or 200 dollar for a year tourist visa. Available anywhere in Europe. You cna still be here all year round...

Not sure about this. Won't they have a fit when you go to immigration to do your border run and see you've been issued a visa from outside of Thailand, yet there are no visible stamps from exit/entry to Thailand as you went to obtain it ? ie how did you legitimately obtain it ouside the country without ever passing thru immigration to get it. They will know you courriered it.

Otherwise, if it's this easy I'll do it straightaway.

[LoveDaBlues]

Is it now too late to apply for the 3m investment visa? I realize there are only 15 days left this month.

Good news.

They are accepting application till the end of the month. As long as you have a 30 day consideration stamp before Oct 1st and are approved, you will be 'grandfathered in"

By the way, the logic why they are doing away with the scheme. “It was too easy for mafia influences to get a visa as 3 million Baht was nothing for them.”

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

When you have a 30 day consideration stamp,are you allowed to leave the country during that period or will this delete the whole process.

usually you can leave during a consideration period but you will need a re-entry permit (B1,000.-)

and you'll have to back in Thailand before the consideration stamp expires.

opalhort

Good news..........for me anyway. This morning I went down to the Suan Plu immigration office. Brought my documentation for the purchase of a condo, my tax reciepts showing I paid all taxes owed and my note from the bank stating the funds came from abroad. I got a 90 day non-0 visa all within an hour. Talk about your Thai efficiency Additionally I paid an extra 3,800 baht so I could have multi entry during these 90 days. After the 90 day visa, I get a one year visa. Normally I get about 4 VoA stamps/month so this new ruling really would have affected me. Lucky (if that's the right word) I bought that 10 mil condo a year ago. It is a really nice place too. We'll have to see how this pans out but if I'm grandfathered in great, if not, have to figure out what plan B will be

Well plan B can be the retirement visa if you're closing in on 50. Or, if I'm reading things correctly just leave the country and fly back in. It seems the 'foot runners' are the ones they are after. Just curious, how many square meters did 10mil baht buy?

[cyborgx]

Is it now too late to apply for the 3m investment visa? I realize there are only 15 days left this month.

Good news.

They are accepting application till the end of the month. As long as you have a 30 day consideration stamp before Oct 1st and are approved, you will be 'grandfathered in"

By the way, the logic why they are doing away with the scheme. “It was too easy for mafia influences to get a visa as 3 million Baht was nothing for them.”

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

When you have a 30 day consideration stamp,are you allowed to leave the country during that period or will this delete the whole process.

I think I'll do this in a hurry since 3M now with (according to Sunbelt) renewals at 3M later is much better than having to do 7M later, but 2 issues:-

1) I am on a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa at present. I don't think that a 30 day extension will help unless it's an extension of a Non-imm-O. From my last conversation with one of the more senior officials in Suanplu he told me that you first need to change your visa to Non-imm before appying for the Investment Visa. Apparently this can be done in country, but could eat into the remaining days to beat the 1st Oct deadline. Anyone have any experience/comments on doing this?

2) How long does the application normally take to be processed?

[sjaak327]

why so difficult, send you passport by courier to a consulate, let the courier pick it up and pay your 170 euro or 200 dollar for a year tourist visa. Available anywhere in Europe. You cna still be here all year round...

Not sure about this. Won't they have a fit when you go to immigration to do your border run and see you've been issued a visa from outside of Thailand, yet there are no visible stamps from exit/entry to Thailand as you went to obtain it ? ie how did you legitimately obtain it ouside the country without ever passing thru immigration to get it. They will know you courriered it.

Otherwise, if it's this easy I'll do it straightaway.

Of course his tourist visa doesn't contain an entry stamp...So he will probably have problems at the border. Surely the visa will be made invalid right there.

[drummer]

I heard today that it is the foot runners they are after - afterall there is a big new airport that they really really really really really want to be a success....

[Sunbelt Asia]

[1) I am on a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa at present. I don't think that a 30 day extension will help unless it's an extension of a Non-imm-O. From my last conversation with one of the more senior officials in Suanplu he told me that you first need to change your visa to Non-imm before appying for the Investment Visa. Apparently this can be done in country, but could eat into the remaining days to beat the 1st Oct deadline. Anyone have any experience/comments on doing this?

We can get it done with a non-O. No need to change. Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht plus 7% Vat.

2) How long does the application normally take to be processed?

You will get either a 30 day or 90 day under consideration stamp. Then the year extension.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Big Dogster]

It appears that previous stamps will be counted from October 1. In many ways that's the real problem with this, not that it's being done but the lack of opportunity for people to organise 'the right way'.

I got an email from a reader of my site just now who went to talk with Immigration about it all at the main Immigration office Suan Plu. According to what they told him, the counting of 30 day stamps STARTS from October 1st.

They also stated that there would be no restriction on entering the country on tourist visas obtained from Thai embassies / consulates abroad.

Now of course they might have it wrong, or have told him worng or he may have misheard, but that is what was said.

Stick

Stick,

We heard the same this afternoon, that the immigration met late yesterday and now have decided as far as Oct 1st being the start. Even if you had a 30 day entry on Sept 30th with a exit of Oct 29th, it won't count against your quota.

HOWEVER, we have requested this in writing as it as just depends who you talk to at Immigration

Even then, let’s face it, it could be the officer’s discretion at the airport or border that will be the deciding rule.

If this is confirmed, it is good news as it gives more breathing room for the 30 day visa runners.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Yet more contradictions in the revolving door of conflicting information

[creation2474]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but in the future, will it be possible to get a tourist visa from abroad (2+1 month), then 3 border runs (adding up to 180 days all in all), before leaving the country 90 days, after which the process can be repeated?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but in the future, will it be possible to get a tourist visa from abroad (2+1 month), then 3 border runs (adding up to 180 days all in all), before leaving the country 90 days, after which the process can be repeated?

Correct.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Thaiquila]

Is it now too late to apply for the 3m investment visa? I realize there are only 15 days left this month.

Good news.

They are accepting application till the end of the month. As long as you have a 30 day consideration stamp before Oct 1st and are approved, you will be 'grandfathered in"

By the way, the logic why they are doing away with the scheme. “It was too easy for mafia influences to get a visa as 3 million Baht was nothing for them.”

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

When you have a 30 day consideration stamp,are you allowed to leave the country during that period or will this delete the whole process.

usually you can leave during a consideration period but you will need a re-entry permit (B1,000.-)

and you'll have to back in Thailand before the consideration stamp expires.

opalhort

Good news..........for me anyway. This morning I went down to the Suan Plu immigration office. Brought my documentation for the purchase of a condo, my tax reciepts showing I paid all taxes owed and my note from the bank stating the funds came from abroad. I got a 90 day non-0 visa all within an hour. Talk about your Thai efficiency Additionally I paid an extra 3,800 baht so I could have multi entry during these 90 days. After the 90 day visa, I get a one year visa. Normally I get about 4 VoA stamps/month so this new ruling really would have affected me. Lucky (if that's the right word) I bought that 10 mil condo a year ago. It is a really nice place too. We'll have to see how this pans out but if I'm grandfathered in great, if not, have to figure out what plan B will be

Well plan B can be the retirement visa if you're closing in on 50. Or, if I'm reading things correctly just leave the country and fly back in. It seems the 'foot runners' are the ones they are after. Just curious, how many square meters did 10mil baht buy?

I am sorry. This is very hard to believe.

It is very easy and not expensive to fly return to Singapore SAME DAY, at least for those near Bangkok. So you think they will allow that, serial 30 day visa runs by air? How are airlines supposed to know who to allow to board? What a mess!

[cyborgx]

[1) I am on a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa at present. I don't think that a 30 day extension will help unless it's an extension of a Non-imm-O. From my last conversation with one of the more senior officials in Suanplu he told me that you first need to change your visa to Non-imm before appying for the Investment Visa. Apparently this can be done in country, but could eat into the remaining days to beat the 1st Oct deadline. Anyone have any experience/comments on doing this?

We can get it done with a non-O. No need to change. Our professional fee is 6,500 Baht plus 7% Vat.

2) How long does the application normally take to be processed?

You will get either a 30 day or 90 day under consideration stamp. Then the year extension.

Thanks for the quick response, but I don't fully understand your reply.

1) As I said, "I currently have a "Multiple Entry Tourist Visa", so why do you say no need to change? I see that it still needs to be changed, hence back to my question on how long to change?

2) What does your quoted fee of Bt.6,500 cover exactly?

3) In your opinion, do you think that getting in before 1st Oct "under consideration" is enough to beat the 1st Oct deadline?

[creation2474]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but in the future, will it be possible to get a tourist visa from abroad (2+1 month), then 3 border runs (adding up to 180 days all in all), before leaving the country 90 days, after which the process can be repeated?

Correct.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you for your reply, Sunbelt.

This means, that it, in reality, is possible to stay in the country 2/3 of the year. Still better than half of it.

But the 90 days, out of they country, between the last border run and the "new" Tourist Visa is still required by the Immigration authorities? You really must leave the country? Sorry, I just want to be 100% sure.

Thanks in advance.

[PeaceBlondie]

If we're still talking about "losing" your passport, at least the American embassy puts on page #1, "This passport replaces #898k380 passport." The next time I came back to Thailand, the immigration computer flashed big colors to say that I had lost my passport. Luckily, I could show her the fully cancelled one and the new one. So, your old passport may be clearly linked to your new one.

Of course, when you lose your passport in Thailand, immigration police cancels whatever visa was in the old passport, and all you may get at Suan Plhu is a "Get out of Thailand free" stamp.

[Nepal4me]

Is it now too late to apply for the 3m investment visa? I realize there are only 15 days left this month.

Good news.

They are accepting application till the end of the month. As long as you have a 30 day consideration stamp before Oct 1st and are approved, you will be 'grandfathered in"

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

When you have a 30 day consideration stamp,are you allowed to leave the country during that period or will this delete the whole process.

I think I'll do this in a hurry since 3M now with (according to Sunbelt) renewals at 3M later is much better than having to do 7M later, but 2 issues:-

1) I am on a Multiple Entry Tourist Visa at present. I don't think that a 30 day extension will help unless it's an extension of a Non-imm-O. From my last conversation with one of the more senior officials in Suanplu he told me that you first need to change your visa to Non-imm before appying for the Investment Visa. Apparently this can be done in country, but could eat into the remaining days to beat the 1st Oct deadline. Anyone have any experience/comments on doing this?

2) How long does the application normally take to be processed?

Cyborgx,

I did this today. I only had a single entry Visa on arrival in my passport, actually I have about 100 of them since I fly in and out of BKK every week. If you look at my previous post (#290), I went to Suan plu today armed with my investment information, got the 90 day non-imm-O and will get the investment visa in 90 days. It took only an hour and was easy as pie. Cost 1900 baht for the 90 day visa. I actually had to pay an additional 3,800 baht for a multi entry visa non imm O for the next 90 days as I'll continue to be in and out. If you are staying here, no need to pay the extra 3,800 baht. If you've invested 3mil, this is the way to go.

Good luck.

[sjaak327]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but in the future, will it be possible to get a tourist visa from abroad (2+1 month), then 3 border runs (adding up to 180 days all in all), before leaving the country 90 days, after which the process can be repeated?

Correct.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you for your reply, Sunbelt.

This means, that it, in reality, is possible to stay in the country 2/3 of the year. Still better than half of it.

But the 90 days, out of they country, between the last border run and the "new" Tourist Visa is still required by the Immigration authorities? You really must leave the country? Sorry, I just want to be 100% sure.

Thanks in advance.

Maybe I'm slow or ignorant, but If I understand all of this correctly it's the stamps they are limiting, so if you get three stamps (90 days) then leave the country and get a single entry tourist visa (60 days), get a one month extension on that visa. Then the "stamp" count has passed already, thus you should get another 3 stamps ? The way I understand this, is that if you have three stamps in the last 180 days, you have to leave the country for 90 days, or come back on a tourist visa, which is what in my example is happening. So that means that there are 90 days between the last exit date on the last stamp.

[meom]

It's definately out of date on the Iraq issue, as a security company occupy those buildings in Mansour now and have for quite sometime.

I go through Dubai on my ins and outs, so will have to do it there it seems. Now I just have to figure all this documentation out...

Best bet is probably a multi entry non immigrant visa. The way i understand it it's valid for a year and you have to leave the country within 90 days after which you're entitled to another 90 day stay upon re-entry etc..

Yes, multiple entry visa is the way to go for frequent travellers to Thailand.

I phoned the Thai Embassy in Riyadh today and explained them the situation. I told the guy that I come over every six weeks for a couple of weeks and that I get 30 days stamp at the airport. Then I told him that according to a news article I might need a visa in future because the Thai government no more like people to come back to Thailand to quick.

The official didn't have a clue what I was on about. First thing he asks how long I plan to stay so I tell him again 2-3 weeks. Then he says I don't need a visa; I get 30 day stamp at the airport.

I explain him again and in the end he replies that they have not received any instruction from Bangkok so according to him I can just come and take 30 day stamp in the airport as usual.

[classic-chassis]

load of <deleted>, get real guys. the proposed ideas are completely unworkable for loads of reasons, if you think its all going to be enforced to the letter you're sad.

[cyborgx]

I did this today. I only had a single entry Visa on arrival in my passport, actually I have about 100 of them since I fly in and out of BKK every week. If you look at my previous post (#290), I went to Suan plu today armed with my investment information, got the 90 day non-imm-O and will get the investment visa in 90 days. It took only an hour and was easy as pie. Cost 1900 baht for the 90 day visa. I actually had to pay an additional 3,800 baht for a multi entry visa non imm O for the next 90 days as I'll continue to be in and out. If you are staying here, no need to pay the extra 3,800 baht. If you've invested 3mil, this is the way to go.

Good luck.

Thanks, I saw one other similar post in this thread saying he was going back today but that was by someone else.

Exchange rate is still a bit crap at the moment, but guess I'll have to bite that bullet.

As an aside, :-

1) did you have to fix the deposit for 1 year or was it shorter term i.e. were there losses involved withdrawing earlier than 1 year?

2) What interest rate did u get?

3) Does anyone know if this is taxable earnings?

[creation2474]

Maybe I'm just a bit slow, but in the future, will it be possible to get a tourist visa from abroad (2+1 month), then 3 border runs (adding up to 180 days all in all), before leaving the country 90 days, after which the process can be repeated?

Correct.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thank you for your reply, Sunbelt.

This means, that it, in reality, is possible to stay in the country 2/3 of the year. Still better than half of it.

But the 90 days, out of they country, between the last border run and the "new" Tourist Visa is still required by the Immigration authorities? You really must leave the country? Sorry, I just want to be 100% sure.

Thanks in advance.

Maybe I'm slow or ignorant, but If I understand all of this correctly it's the stamps they are limiting, so if you get three stamps (90 days) then leave the country and get a single entry tourist visa (60 days), get a one month extension on that visa. Then the "stamp" count has passed already, thus you should get another 3 stamps ? The way I understand this, is that if you have three stamps in the last 180 days, you have to leave the country for 90 days, or come back on a tourist visa, which is what in my example is happening. So that means that there are 90 days between the last exit date on the last stamp.

The reason I ask, is that many members on this forum, who seem to know a bit about this, have said many times, that if one has 3 "border run stamps, 30 day stamps", then he cannot get into the country within the next 3 months UNLESS he makes a VISA.

The only way I can understand this, is that it then must be possible just to shift between 3-border-runs and tourist visa.

But maybe i have missed something?

[Thaiquila]

Yeah, what you are missing is that it appears that it will be harder to get a tourist visa at a consulate when showing up with recent serial 30 day stamps. How can people plan their lives with this kind of uncertainty? Maybe the goal is to not actually enforce this, but scare away a chunk of people just out of the confusion and uncertainty.

[creation2474]

I think you are right about the uncertainty. Beacuse it looks like there actually are and presumably will be no "fixed" rules about exactly how often and when one are allowed to have a new tourist visa. But in theory, from what we have heard on this forum, the above mentioned practice shoud be possibe...?!??!?

[sjaak327]

Yeah, what you are missing is that it appears that it will be harder to get a tourist visa at a consulate when showing up with recent serial 30 day stamps. How can people plan their lives with this kind of uncertainty? Maybe the goal is to not actually enforce this, but scare away a chunk of people just out of the confusion and uncertainty.

Right nobody can plan their lives on this, but then again, the same can be said from planning your life on doing 12 border runs every year. I mean, on that basis, I would never consider staying in Thailand, let alone buy property or raising a family.

What remains to be seen is if they are going to give a single entry tourist visa + one month extension to someone who has been doing border runs the last three times around. If they do, then you will all be fine. But then the only effect this will have is that the people actually pay the visa fee. So I guess they might refuse the visa off hand based upon the stamps.

[JimsKnight]

Gentlemen,

The short and bottom IMHO is that for long-term retirees who sell-up the house lock stock etc and are under 50 and have no intention of marrying a thai chick, throwing money into businesses etc. They will not have much incentive to use thailand as a base to retire to because of the visa change. Until now of all the SE Asian countries Indonesia was the most strict for visas (30 days only, leave from a port/airport can return the following day, no non imm multi entry). Now it seems thailand is following suit!

I think spanish lessons are looking more and more tempting!

[Thaiquila]

Claro que si. Happily I made it to 50 but I have much sympathy for people hit by this.

[creation2474]

Have been thinking about Ecuador for the past months, actually...

[migrant]

Claro que si. Happily I made it to 50 but I have much sympathy for people hit by this.

I've spent a lot of time in Honduras and Costa Rica, I like Thailand better, and it is generally cheaper, but they are both great places.

[pwllgrgn]

News from the new regulation:

This is coming from the Chief of Immigration.

1.Retirement Visa extension. If you have a foreign married spouse who is a dependent they will be able to get this dependent visa now. ( change of what has been happing the last couple weeks)

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I am still unclear as to what this means after October 1. Will the foreign spouse need to have an extra 800,000 baht deposited in a Thai account from overseas (or equivalent monthly income) or will the requirement be for only one amount of 800,000 baht per couple?

As of now only 800,000 Baht per couple.( This was the requirement before)

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Thanks, Sunbelt. Guess we'll need to wait for further details from Immigration closer to the date.

Hi

I am totally confused after all the info I have been reading over the past few days regarding the Dependant Visa. I thought that this was being abolished after October the 1st? I am planning on retiring to Thailand in 2007, I qualify for the Long stay/retirement visa, my husband is 5 years younger. We will have sufficient funds to live in Thailand comfortably. Will he qualify for the Dependants Visa? I need to know before we sell property that we own in UK

Thanks

[realthaideal]

hi guys..

so why do people want multiple tourist visa's anyway?

if you are working or staying in thailand why dont you get a work or retirement or dependants visa?

i dont think that there is anything wrong here with the new visa requirements - just people trying to get around the law - for whatever reason - probably tax or insurance or just simply black employment ....

so what do such people ( multiple tourist visa ) do for a living? how do they get money? one assumes its all illigal?

amarka

Dude. Amarka. I'm not here to do black things and do evil. I'm a freelance worker who does gigs via the internet back in the US. I have an income and spend it here. I love Thailand. But get this, I'm required to be taken on for a job that pays 60,000 Baht / mo in order to get that visa. How many companies do you think are paying Farang or anybody that kind of money...in BKK ? ok, a few, but all upper level positions. Now how about Chiang Mai? 60k in CHiang Mai ? Ha ! Keep dreaming. The laws themselves are unrealistic at best and greedy at worst. I have to keep the party going by bringing in my foreign dollars via the internet, and under the table.

And guess what ? I write good things about THailand for the internet. I do good for this country. THat's in addition to spending my money here. But with my less than 60 K income thru a Thai co there is no way for me to go legit. But I want to live here and do what's right. The avenue for that does not exist. Their own loss. And I know there are many good folks up to projects in the same boat as I am.

Give some heart and thought to floks like us.

[beats]

Yes, multiple entry visa is the way to go for frequent travellers to Thailand.

But I visited the Thai Embassy website for Los Angeles and it states clearly, "*** Non-immigrant visas will not be issued for such purposes as tourism, seeking employment opportunities, looking for a school for teaching or studying purposes, etc." Yet in the link you provided it shows a sample application with "Purpose of visit: holiday". So who is right? Or is there a different Non-immigrant visa available elsewhere that can be used for tourists?

You can apply for the tourist visa with each reentry costing $25.00 from the LA embassy.

What I have done for the past two years is when I am in California, I fedex'd my passport with visa application form, money order etc. to the LA thai embassy. I applied for a tourist visa with 3 reentrys. It cost me $75. Last time I was there I got it back with a new visa in 3 days.

When I got back to Thailand, after 60 days I went down to the immigration office and paid 1900baht to extend 30 days.

After that I did a border crossing and came back with a fresh 60 days and one of my reentrys crossed off. Extend for another 30 days and then I could squeeze one more border crossing in there.

After that the visa is used up and expires after 6 months anyway. Then it is back to California to visit family and get a new one or do some monthly bus rides until I was ready to go back. Hope this helps.

edit: who knows how much longer this plan will work though...

p.s. kudos to sunbelt for helpful and timely info.

Edited September 13, 2006 by beats