A first for Thailand: Buying property with a 20-year visa

[Kerryd]

I have just emailed ThaiElite for clarification as to what they consider "property".

For those unaware, Thailand Elite has a "Thailand Elite Individual Membership for Property Co-Project" package option (http://www.thailandelite.com/factsheet/Property%20Co-Project_Factsheet_English.pdf) however one of the conditions of that particular package is that:

"The Applicant must purchase property, which is in cooperation with Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited only"

This particular option has a 1 million baht fee, with the standard 20,000 annual fee but of note is the clause "Membership transfer - One (1)-time transferable only to immediate family***"

Something else to note with the "normal" Thai Elite option. As with the property one the visas are shown as "Renewable 5-year multiple entry visa with extendable 1-year length of stay per each entry" and the membership period (for both) is 20 years. (I'm sure the astute will look at that and quickly decide that they could conceivably stretch that into 24 years worth of visas.)

Keep in mind that you have that 20k/year annual fee and, should you decide to sell your condo (with the accompanying visa) there is the transfer fee (20% of the "outstanding value" of the Elite card membership). So selling your condo 5 years down the road means you'll have paid an additional 100,000 baht in annual fees, and will have a 300,000 baht transfer fee to consider as well (150,000 if you are using the "Property Co-Project version).

(That's assuming whoever you sell to even wants that visa or is willing to pay anything for it !)

If I hear back from TE about their definition of "property" I'll pass it on.

(edited to add pretty blue colouring !)

Edited June 12, 2015 by Kerryd

[JOC]

The Thailand Elite card has died, risen, died, and risen again and will soon die another horrible death since the Tourism Authority of Thailand is in charge of it. One of the biggest scams ever to hit Thailand. It wasn't a bad deal when Thaksin originally offered it - one million cards at one million baht apiece. At least with that card you could buy land. But, with the newer iterations, the benefits have dwindled. And, there is the disclaimer that it could go belly up at any time and no refunds will be issued.

there was never any option to buy land!

Yes there was!!

On the first cards in 2003 there was the an option to buy land!!

Scrapped a few months later, since it was "not in accordance with Thai law"...............

[peterrabbit]

'ITS A MINEFIELD' ! is what springs to mind.

[Thunderbirds20]

why not make such a visa available to anyone that has lived here without incident for more than 10 years?

[deepcell]

If they give the sticker visa in your passport with "Enter Before: 2035-06-12" OK I agree it is a 20 year visa. Otherwise it is crap!

[sfokevin]

What incentives will they offer to the 51% Thai's must buy?...

[Yunla]

I would just get the 5-year TE card, and choose my own condo, personally. But I do receive TE emails and other advertising material, and one of the obvious things in reading this stuff is that it is aimed at people who like things bundled / all-inclusive, and people who are in the luxury end of the market. So this card/condo package is not really news as such, it is just a continuation of their all-inclusive perks bundle sales-concept. It will appeal to people in the luxury end of the market, who do not like to shop around, and just want the airport-limo-condo all ready to go without any hassle. I wish TE luck with this project.

I actually am a huge fan of the 5 year TE card, for disabled persons like myself it has proved to be a lot easier than constant border runs. But I would never pay 20-years in advance for anything, and also I love my old 1970s condo in Bangkok lol.

It will be interesting to follow this story and see the sort of prices and locations that are bundled into this deal, even though I will be just looking not buying.

[Soutpeel]

"one property developer has joined forces with Thailand Elite"

Any government deal with an individual or single business without following a transparent and accountable procurement process is CORRUPTION.

Welcome to Junta Failed Reform.

Like Halliburton your mean ?

Edited June 12, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Colabamumbai]

Only fools rush in.

[Soutpeel]

living in Thailand for nearly 11 years i still have to encounter a rodeo.

Think the closest to your Naam is Walking street, full of buffalo races

[Soutpeel]

why not make such a visa available to anyone that has lived here without incident for more than 10 years?

they do, its THB 500k for 5 years or THB 2.0 million for your life time

Surely your not inferring some form of self entitlement and suggesting such persons get it for free, just because they have managed to stay out of jail in Thailand ?

[micmichd]

"one property developer has joined forces with Thailand Elite"

Any government deal with an individual or single business without following a transparent and accountable procurement process is CORRUPTION.

The government should extend this benefit to ALL property developers to be fair and just. This deal gives as a minimum the APPEARANCE of special treatment with a developer who may be suffering from financial stress and willing to do ANYTHING to sell properties in a depressed market.

Welcome to Junta Failed Reform.

The fact that only one company joined doesn't make it "corruption".

Where does it say that the offer to join this program is not for everyone?

[Soutpeel]

"one property developer has joined forces with Thailand Elite"

Any government deal with an individual or single business without following a transparent and accountable procurement process is CORRUPTION.

The government should extend this benefit to ALL property developers to be fair and just. This deal gives as a minimum the APPEARANCE of special treatment with a developer who may be suffering from financial stress and willing to do ANYTHING to sell properties in a depressed market.

Welcome to Junta Failed Reform.

The fact that only one company joined doesn't make it "corruption".

Where does it say that the offer to join this program is not for everyone?

Maybe Srikcir should be venting his rage over corruption with the likes of Halliburton and FIFA ?

Thai corruption is in the amateur leagues compared with the likes of the above...

[mike324]

can't believe so many folks just read the headline and become a keyboard warrior on "there is no 20 year visa". Read the damn article and it clearly says

" entitled to a 20-year visa, which amounts to five-year multiple-entry visa that is renewable every four years."

So its a 5 year visa, and they allow you to extend it 4 consecutive times with no extra charge (unless the extra charge is in the fine print). I really don't see whats so shady about this, its written clearly, all you need to figure out yourself is if its any cheaper to purchase this as a package deal or separate.

Nothing shady about a private company ''selling'' visas...nothing shady at all

Well I won't jump the gun too quick like some folks, maybe it is shady but most folks here don't know the details on how the visa will be obtain, is it through corporation with Thailand Elite? If so then its pretty legit, or will it be through there own real estates office helping them get it...then yea that may be a little shady and unlikely.

[Cpkt8]

The developer's property featured may have many unsold units. Plus quite a number of faults in the property, that renders the developer to come up with such sale tactic.

[MockingJay]

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I don't see anything wrong or corrupt about this:

Basically, the condo developer here appears to be prepaying and bundling with your condo purchase the normal TE 5-year renewable visa provisions that anyone already can purchase directly thru TE without buying a condo.

As others have noted above, there is NO 20 year visa offered by Immigration ... but there are the 5-year TE visas that can be renewed (in the case of this project/example, four times consecutively).

The only issues are, IMHO:

--How much above the regular/fair market price of such condos is this developer marking up their prices to cover the added costs of essentially buying TE memberships for the condo buyers?

and

--Do you want to bet your pre-paid condo purchase money (including the added part to cover TE) that the Thai government and TAT are capable of honoring the promises they make now for a 20 year period into the future, without changing or canceling the program (as they do with so many other things)?

PS - of course, there's also the issue of wondering whether Thailand will remain a place where foreigners want to live, and are welcome to live, for another 20 years into the future -- given the various political and other uncertainties on the horizon.

Edited June 12, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Guest]

I don't see anything wrong or corrupt about this:

Basically, the condo developer here appears to be prepaying and bundling with your condo purchase the normal TE 5-year renewable visa provisions that anyone already can purchase directly thru TE without buying a condo.

As others have noted above, there is NO 20 year visa offered by Immigration ... but there are the 5-year TE visas that can be renewed (in the case of this project/example, four times consecutively).

PS2130.jpg

The only issues are, IMHO:

--How much above the regular/fair market price of such condos is this developer marking up their prices to cover the added costs of essentially buying TE memberships for the condo buyers?

and

--Do you want to bet your pre-paid condo purchase money (including the added part to cover TE) that the Thai government and TAT are capable of honoring the promises they make now for a 20 year period into the future, without changing or canceling the program (as they do with so many other things)?

PS - of course, there's also the issue of wondering whether Thailand will remain a place where foreigners want to live, and are welcome to live, for another 20 years into the future -- given the various political and other uncertainties on the horizon.

* Sigh * - Google is your friend.

From their own website:

"The Individual membership fee is a non-refundable payment of two million Baht (THB 2,000,000) exclusive of VAT with validity of 20 years. This entitles the Member to the principal benefits and privileges of a Thailand Elite Membership as detailed in the Membership Privilege Book. Please visit the website or email to [email protected] for more information."

And yes, there is also a 5 year card.

[Guest]

I don't see anything wrong or corrupt about this:

Basically, the condo developer here appears to be prepaying and bundling with your condo purchase the normal TE 5-year renewable visa provisions that anyone already can purchase directly thru TE without buying a condo.

As others have noted above, there is NO 20 year visa offered by Immigration ... but there are the 5-year TE visas that can be renewed (in the case of this project/example, four times consecutively).

PS2130.jpg

The only issues are, IMHO:

--How much above the regular/fair market price of such condos is this developer marking up their prices to cover the added costs of essentially buying TE memberships for the condo buyers?

and

--Do you want to bet your pre-paid condo purchase money (including the added part to cover TE) that the Thai government and TAT are capable of honoring the promises they make now for a 20 year period into the future, without changing or canceling the program (as they do with so many other things)?

PS - of course, there's also the issue of wondering whether Thailand will remain a place where foreigners want to live, and are welcome to live, for another 20 years into the future -- given the various political and other uncertainties on the horizon.

Dear TallGuy,

Not sure what to say...best of luck finding those reading glasses !

[Guest]

I don't see anything wrong or corrupt about this:

Basically, the condo developer here appears to be prepaying and bundling with your condo purchase the normal TE 5-year renewable visa provisions that anyone already can purchase directly thru TE without buying a condo.

As others have noted above, there is NO 20 year visa offered by Immigration ... but there are the 5-year TE visas that can be renewed (in the case of this project/example, four times consecutively).

PS2130.jpg

The only issues are, IMHO:

--How much above the regular/fair market price of such condos is this developer marking up their prices to cover the added costs of essentially buying TE memberships for the condo buyers?

and

--Do you want to bet your pre-paid condo purchase money (including the added part to cover TE) that the Thai government and TAT are capable of honoring the promises they make now for a 20 year period into the future, without changing or canceling the program (as they do with so many other things)?

PS - of course, there's also the issue of wondering whether Thailand will remain a place where foreigners want to live, and are welcome to live, for another 20 years into the future -- given the various political and other uncertainties on the horizon.

Dear TallGuy,

Not sure what to say...best of luck finding those reading glasses !

[Arkady]

I think you would need to look carefully into the details of this to see what hidden costs are involved. I would guess it is unlikely to work out better than applying to Thai Elite and buying the condo of your choice. Thai Elite is no doubt going to want to screen the applicants itself which might mean that you can't on-sell your Thai Elite membership. Bound to be high transfer fees, even if you can.

The Malaysia My 2nd Home scheme is far superior to Thai Elite. It gives you a 10 year renewable visa, allows you to: buy a plot of residential land; to import a car duty free; to work part time; to get a visa for a maid you bring from overseas; & etc etc. There is no comparison.

[JB300]

It is clear that they're referring to the 20 years (2MB ) membership & not the 5 year (500k), what's not so clear is how much this will load onto the Condo price (e.g. If it adds 2Million then it will be cheaper to buy the 2 separate as you'll end up paying tax on the 2Million part) or whether you need to pay the annual 20k fee.

Also, it doesn't say whether the Visa is tied to the property or if the Individual can sell the Condo without it, obviously if it's tied to the property you'll want to recoup a higher price than if it's not which limits your market, if it's separable then you could find it easier to sell the Unit as it will look good value compared to the units selling with the Visa.

Edited June 12, 2015 by JB300

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BangkokEquity,

20 years is the length of your TE membership, not the visa... Look at the title of the column next to the 20 year reference -- Membership Validity.

Then, look at the bottom line of the image where the section is on multiple entry visas "renewable 5 years."

So yes... no 20 year visa offered by Immigration. Try 5 year renewables instead.

Edited June 12, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[micmichd]

Guess there's some confusion about "programmes" and "laws" here.

It is normal procedure in Western countries that a government offers programmes and makes the laws to guarantee their stability. If a programme isn't accepted by the "customers of lawmakers", then make another one.

The reliability of laws should be guaranteed in the constitution.

[Beetlejuice]

You cannot own a condo in the true sense. It`s the juristic management that have full rights over the land and buildings, the residents only purchase a time period on the lease, or in other words, the deal is really just a glorified rental agreement. This is why farangs are permitted to buy condos in Thailand, because it means they still own nothing except the rights to live in the property and sell their time periods left on the lease, providing they abide by the terms of the lease dictated by the management company.

Over the long term the juristic management companies make more profits from the multiple annual maintenance fees than they do from the purchases of the leaseholds. This is big business that I describe as jobs for the lads, because it involves the companies own insurance companies, maintenance people and all the services associated with the condos. Everyone gets a piece of the action except the mugs who buy into these units. I would never consider a condo as a realistic investment. Remember, whether tenants reside in the units or not, they are still imposed to pay the maintenance fees.

I would rather rent a home privately than purchase a condo and commit myself to a juristic management company. that have powers to charge any amounts they feel fit for annual service fees and maintenance costs.

[spermwhale]

Funny how they got a deal with immigration. Must have been "well connected".

I don't even think its a deal with immigration, anyone could advertise this " benefit" and once you have someone hooked, pick them up and take them the TE office

Is it just me or has anyone heard of this type of visa before? There are no 20 year visas as far as I know.

[micmichd]

There is surely one thing you should always take into consideration:

A foreigner will never be allowed to get control over Thai land.

All juristic tricks to avoid this restriction are about to fail, deviant agreements may get (and in fact got) declared void by Thai courts.

For me personally, buying a condo in a package with a long-term visa is not attractive.

But maybe for someone else.

[kovaltech]

>>Nigel Cornick, Chief Executive Officer of Kingdom Property (pictured), said: “The long-stay solution will overcome many of the barriers that we see when selling our properties overseas. Generally unless you have a business visa, retirement visa or marriage visa, you are not permitted to stay for any length of time.<< Quote

Mr Nigel conveniently "forgot" to mention, that a Easy Access Visa gives you a 5 year visa for 500k, and the freedom to choose your own location, if Patts is not your cup of tea...................

Better check this out... 1 million for 20 years ....

Might be a new deal with TE ?

http://thailandelite.com/factsheet/Property%20Co-Project_Factsheet_English.pdf

And more info on TE visa,

privileged entry, 90 day reporting done by TE ?

http://www.thai-elite.com/elite-visa.html

and their downloadable fact sheets...

http://thailandelite.com/download.php

Edited June 12, 2015 by kovaltech

[Soutpeel]

Funny how they got a deal with immigration. Must have been "well connected".

I don't even think its a deal with immigration, anyone could advertise this " benefit" and once you have someone hooked, pick them up and take them the TE office

Is it just me or has anyone heard of this type of visa before? There are no 20 year visas as far as I know.

Yes the TE program has been going for years, but there is no 20 year visa per se, its renewable at 5 year intervals over a 20 year period

Think some people are just being pedantic &lt;deleted&gt;, is it a 20 year "visa" can you renew the visa for up to 20 years ? yes....the result is the same

[Soutpeel]

>>Nigel Cornick, Chief Executive Officer of Kingdom Property (pictured), said: “The long-stay solution will overcome many of the barriers that we see when selling our properties overseas. Generally unless you have a business visa, retirement visa or marriage visa, you are not permitted to stay for any length of time.<< Quote

Mr Nigel conveniently "forgot" to mention, that a Easy Access Visa gives you a 5 year visa for 500k, and the freedom to choose your own location, if Patts is not your cup of tea...................

Better check this out... 1 million for 20 years ....

Might be a new deal with TE ?

http://thailandelite.com/factsheet/Property%20Co-Project_Factsheet_English.pdf

And more info on TE visa,

privileged entry, 90 day reporting done by TE ?

http://www.thai-elite.com/elite-visa.html

and their downloadable fact sheets...

http://thailandelite.com/download.php

dude...stay with the plot, that's very old info...the THB 1.0 million was the original price, Its 2.0 million for 20 years these days or 500k for 5 years