Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[GOLDBUGGY]

I always shake my head when I read something like "These Poor Boys!" "Take a look at them!" "They couldn't hurt a flea"!

Now let me point out a "Fact" to you all.

Myanmar, and where these so called "Innocent Boys" come from, has the Highest Murder Rate in all of Asia. All of Asia! The Myanmar Murder Rate is triple what it is in Thailand. Meaning by population for every 1 Murder in Thailand, there are 3 Murders in Myanmar. Thailand's Murder Rate is only slightly higher than the USA. But no small wonder they look at Myanmar Workers first when their is a murder committed nearby.

So could they commit murder? You bet your bottom dollar they could! And there own Government Statistics proves that and they can back that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Desperate measures from a person who is struggling to stack it up.

More likely to be killed In the Bahamas. Twice as likely ... doesnt mean you right the whole race off as murderer's. Really that's the most tosh I have read all day.

You could do with a weeks holiday for your racist comments.

God give me strength.

Edit.... And we know the 3 times tables i understand you want us to know you are capable too.

I have worked with more Black, Yellow, and Red People than you will ever see in your life time. Many were my friends. I do not have one once of racism in my body.With what I have seen and read about in this case I could care less if these murders where done by a Migrant Workers, or Thais, or Whites from the UK. My feelings about it all would still be the same.

Yes! Some of these Tourist Hot Spots are high on the list for Murders. Tourist bring money and when you are poor brings crime also. Thailand is a Hot Spot for tourist destination while as it stands now Myanmar is not. But then I wasn't the one who suggested we print this big map to show how dangerous it is in Thailand either.

[sweatalot]

As always a lot of speculations on TV and the last 20 pages doesnt seem to come up with much from the court hearings today.

But I would like to focus on this from our police witness :

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. "

An argument with a thai youth on the night . Anyone have more on this , I'm sure we have discussed it before. And is it only rumours ?

This will be the senior police officer who has been running this case and made an utter shambles of it.

The senior policeman who for some bizarre reason took over the case when the previous officer was looking at the owner of the bars son where the alleged argument took place as the prime suspect.

Are we meant to believe a single word this incompetent fool says?

Well, if he's an incompetent fool, he's a very rich (nearly half a billion baht) and well-connected incompetent fool. How does a man amass 350+ million baht on a policeman's salary? Hmmmm, maybe he sells fried crickets on the sidewalk after his shift is over.

Does anybody know the definition of "criminal energy" ?

Not that I see any connection with the above mentioned.

[boomerangutang]

Another one of my favorite regular posts here is "My Wife(brother sister, friend, or cousin) is Thai and she thinks the 2 accused didn't do these crimes.

What makes you think for even one second that these people are privy to certain information that we don't have? They are subject to the same Social Media Networks, just like most of you, but this time in Thai. Also where all these Spin Doctors creating doubt through false information to cast a Web to catch Fools in it.

Most Thais I know are much more concerned with Rice and Rubber Prices then they are with some Murder in Tim-Buck-To involving Farangs. ,

You're right GB, we don't have a lot of data - which could shed light on who the real criminals are. Here's why: the people paid by taxpayers to protect the public, and to properly investigate crimes ......are intentionally withholding/trashing/tweaking/misrepresenting/not-looking-at evidence to try and mislead the public who are paying their salaries.

If I have a broken car and I take it to a car fixing shop, I want them to tell me what's wrong, and hopefully they can fix it. If RTP was running a car repair shop, they would do the following:

>>> grossly mis-diagnose

>>> not look at key indications of problems

>>> intentionally break things

>>> lie to the customer about everything

>>> over-charge, and leave the customer with a car in worse shape than when she brought it in.

[Heisenbergg]

Edit: By the way, it was also under Panya that Mon was cleared.

JTJ. Imagine a corporation's top execs (Bkk manipulators, including PM and top cop). The top manager for the initial investigative team (Panya) was not doing his job according to the parameters set out by the top execs. He was following evidence to where it led (to Mon and Nomsod) instead of quickly indicting impoverished powerless migrants. He was told to do it quickly. He started doing it (reluctantly eliminating Mon as a prime suspect), but it was not quick enough for top execs. So the chief cop in Bkk yanked Panya off, and put himself in charge. All the rest is the sad history of cover-up and shielding the Headman's people.

Also; the was mega pressure from TAT and tourist industry to indict someone. For obvious reasons, the H's people were untouchable. Big money can do a lot of magical things in Thailand. TAT thought (mistakenly) that tourists were clamoring for indictments in order to feel safe enough to return to the island to spend lots of money. Au contraire, tourists want rapists and murderers taken out of the public domain. If it takes some time to get it right, that's ok. Thai officials don't understand that.

The thing about prior promotion plans is bunk. Promotions go on all the time among uniformed Thai officials. If a man is leading a team on an important crime investigation, there's only one reason he's going to get yanked off the job - if his higher ups don't like how he's doing his job. Any other explanation is pissing in the wind.

That, and you can't accuse a Thai big mans son of Murder and remain the head of police in the area. Especially when that big man is connected to another big man named Suthep.

[Heisenbergg]

Edit: By the way, it was also under Panya that Mon was cleared.

JTJ. Imagine a corporation's top execs (Bkk manipulators, including PM and top cop). The top manager for the initial investigative team (Panya) was not doing his job according to the parameters set out by the top execs. He was following evidence to where it led (to Mon and Nomsod) instead of quickly indicting impoverished powerless migrants. He was told to do it quickly. He started doing it (reluctantly eliminating Mon as a prime suspect), but it was not quick enough for top execs. So the chief cop in Bkk yanked Panya off, and put himself in charge. All the rest is the sad history of cover-up and shielding the Headman's people.

Also; the was mega pressure from TAT and tourist industry to indict someone. For obvious reasons, the H's people were untouchable. Big money can do a lot of magical things in Thailand. TAT thought (mistakenly) that tourists were clamoring for indictments in order to feel safe enough to return to the island to spend lots of money. Au contraire, tourists want rapists and murderers taken out of the public domain. If it takes some time to get it right, that's ok. Thai officials don't understand that.

The thing about prior promotion plans is bunk. Promotions go on all the time among uniformed Thai officials. If a man is leading a team on an important crime investigation, there's only one reason he's going to get yanked off the job - if his higher ups don't like how he's doing his job. Any other explanation is pissing in the wind.

That, and you can't accuse a Thai big mans son of Murder and remain the head of police in the area. Especially when that big man is connected to another big man named Suthep.

[biplanebluey]

Thailand: Migrant workers on trial accused of raping, killing British backpackers

The trial of two 22-year-old Burmese migrants, Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, accused of the murder of two British tourists on a Thai resort island last year, opens Wednesday in Koh Samui amid accusations of evidence mishandling, witness intimidation and possible coerced confessions.

The bodies of two young Britons, Hannah Witheridge -- who was also raped, according to police reports -- and David Miller, were discovered early on September 15 on a beach on Koh Tao, a small island in the Gulf of Thailand. They were partially undressed and had sustained severe injuries to their heads.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/07/asia/koh-tao-migrant-murder-trial-opens/index.html

Yea---- I seem to have read this somewhere--------

[Rykbanlor]

Seems like Goldbuggy can't answer the more objective posts with links to an article that categorizes the Police incompetence, screw-ups and lies. Only off the wall posts speculating about the murder rate in Burma, and his diverse history of working with "red, yellow and black" peoples.

[glenmohr]

Thats a great idea, a simple map of the soi's nearby with the relevant cctv cameras there would be great. We can then have a better understanding especially of the running man and the directions he was going and how near to the crime scene.

A timeline of the reports in the trial would also be good. We all know that the current reports we are getting even from those in the court room are unofficial and its only the judges transcript at the end of the trial that is taken as the true record of what was said. Is that transcript going to include what we've heard?? Interesting to keep tabs on this and see.

By the way, just returned after a 72 hour holiday due to my over zealous response to one of the shills, lets see how long I can stay before it happens again.

Been keeping up and am absolutely disgusted with the events taking place. Thank Christ the international press and organizations such as BBC are onto every aspect of this case. They'll not let go now.

It would probably help if you refrained from insulting people by calling them shills.

Now, Now, Ali G, maybe help if you stop intentionally provoking people.... ohhh by the way what time does the RTP Defenders Club open, is happy hour still from 5-7 or has that now stopped in light of recent events.

Well, since so many people have been poking a sharp stick in the eye of a Black Mamba Snake, and provoking him to join this make believe and made up world, where the majority people aren't even civil enough to reframe from Name Calling, I will make a few more comments and point out some more facts. Starting with the name "Defender of the RTP".

How can one respond to someone who after nearly one year doesn't even know who is on trial here? The RPT are not on trial here, nor is Thailand, the people on trial here are 2 Migrant Workers accused of a double Murder, Rape, and Robbery. They are the ones who need defending, and not the RTP. I have no connection to any police force in the world or anyone on this Island, that I did not even know existed a year ago. My opinions are strictly opinions which I try to base mostly on fact and not social media gossip, and my agenda is to shed some light on some twisted facts.

So what do you hope to accomplish by attacking certain people on this island and the police? To shut down tourism there? Did you ever stop and think what the end result would be if you were ever successful? Sure you may hurt some of the rich and more powerful on this Island, but they have enough money to lay back for a few years and wait for all this to blow over, or start another business elsewhere.

But what about the +1,000 Myanmar Migrate Workers on that Island who depend on these Tourist for their jobs? To feed not only themselves but their families back home.Without jobs you have forced them back into poverty in their own country and what they tried to escape from. What they paid good money to get away from.

In there lies the problem with you so called Do-gooders. Without thinking first and shooting your mouths off, they end up hurting the people they are trying to help far more then if they just kept their nose out of it. . .

To Mr GB, rightly or wrongly the international press are describing this fiasco as "Thailand on trial". Not only the RTP, but the PM and downwards are all on trial, So far the outside world is not impressed and Thailand needs the outside world to be impressed because you and I both agree tourism is important to all Thais and migrant workers.

[Oziex1]

KT cops untrained, brainless, thugs never held accountable.

Will they be accountable in this case?

[fritzzz25]

Sixth highest rank in the commissioned officer group in the RTP and couldn't even organize a piss up in a brewery with all the taps running..... How does one get to be a Colonel (I know, I know.....$$) with this level of incompetence.

Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed the shocking failures of the investigation when he appeared in court today.

The staggering blunders include:

• Failing to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

• Failing to sufficiently explain apparent discrepancies between the clothing of potential suspects, whose images were caught on CCTV

• Failing to take into account body measurements of potential suspects when examining CCTV footage

• Not being present during the collection of crucial DNA evidence, despite being the investigating officer in the case. Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

[Rykbanlor]

KT cops untrained, brainless, thugs never held accountable.

Will they be accountable in this case?

Only if you preceed accountable with an Un.

While it seems that the Police turned up to trial, with only a couple of spades and instructions to dig, and that the B2 may have a fighting chance, we still have to see how the judges react, and even then I feel a lot of doubt that there will be a further investigation if this one fails to yield a conviction.

It's good that the rumours involving the headmans family and son seem to have been brought up frequently at the trial, and that the Police have demonstrated that they failed to investigate these rumours, don;t know who actually questioned Nomsod, and don't have the DNA test results that supposedly gave him the all clear.

However, pursuing that in a new investigation seems remote. I think the more international coverage the better though, hopefully a modicum of pressure can be applied to keep this thing alive and not let it peter out like the Kirsty Jones case.

[Rykbanlor]

Sixth highest rank in the commissioned officer group in the RTP and couldn't even organize a piss up in a brewery with all the taps running..... How does one get to be a Colonel (I know, I know.....$$) with this level of incompetence.

Investigating officer Cherdpong Chiewpreecha revealed the shocking failures of the investigation when he appeared in court today.

The staggering blunders include:

• Failing to confirm whether the mobile phone and SIM card found on the beach belonged to Mr Miller

• Failing to sufficiently explain apparent discrepancies between the clothing of potential suspects, whose images were caught on CCTV

• Failing to take into account body measurements of potential suspects when examining CCTV footage

• Not being present during the collection of crucial DNA evidence, despite being the investigating officer in the case. Colonel Chiewpreecha admitted he had no idea how the DNA was taken and did not know whether the samples had been sent to Singapore for testing.

Calling all shills, your Police Force needs YOU.

Y'alll better get spinning faster than Rumplestiltskin to make some gold outta this. I already challenged in a previous post outlining some other failures, add all these gems, and by the way, read that Daily Mail article, and then see what a shining example your boys are setting.

Bring aaaawn the Spin.

[boomerangutang]

Reading through past post I can't but wonder what all this is about and some Victory Parade. I mean before the discovery that the DNA can be retested. So maybe better we start there to get that out of the way.

I have claimed from the start that I hoped that the courts would allow this DNA to be retested. I still feel the same today. I like everyone else was confused with reports saying it was lost, or used up, or eaten by a snake. But now that it can be retested I think that is fine. All I added to this was to be careful for what you ask for as you might get it.

If these test do come back negative, like the first ones, then the gig is up. It is game over. There is no turning back after this point, The accused chances of a successful victory at trial, and even appeal, I would think would be very little. So I will wait and see and see if these tests actually take place. If they are guilty it would be easier to try and poke holes in the Prosecutions DNA Evidence then to have you own which agrees with his.

Someone pointed out that if the defense discovered through DNA that they did do it, they wouldn't have to show this in court. Perhaps at the very beginning if they conducted there own DNA Independent Test he may be right. I am not sure. But since the Defense had to appeal to the court to allow this, and this was granted, then I would think the court would want to see the results regardless. But again I am not sure.

We agree somewhat. We both want DNA to be re-examined. However, the DNA, if it still exists, has been held in government care. The same gov't which has shown, in many ways, it has an agenda to shield the Headman's family. Would you trust the Khmer rouge to provide data (which they have been storing) which would implicate family members of the Khmer Rouge?

The most reliable DNA findings/samples are those held by Brits. Every action/indication by Thai gov't is to try and keep the Brits as far removed as possible.

If the B2 were guilty, do you think they'd be so eager to get DNA re-tested?

The judge agreed to a defense request to re-test DNA in late April. Then the judge switched and said, in early June, that he would make a decision on the first day of the trial, July 8. He didn't. He said he would the following day, July 9. He didn't. The 10th had the prosecution's witness saying it was 'used up' and some items 'lost.' That evening, his boss Somyot said nothing had been lost (conveniently not mentioning the lost hair). That's the sort of pattern we've been seeing - everything points to cover-up and obfuscation. Who can trust the samples RTP will be trotting out, if they ever do? Even if some DNA items become available, there will still be very strict restrictions imposed by the court: No looking at or testing any DNA which might point at anyone connected to the Headman.

[smedly]

With criminal defamation laws here in Thailand, I can't imagine a high ranking cop accusing a hiso Thai of killing and raping tourists he'd need some strong evidence or he'd be out of a job.

you don't accuse, you investigate - gather evidence - track and record the evidence - have it officially examined/tested with the ability to have it scrutinised at a later date, applied to DNA - testimony - cctv footage - recorded interviews, you leave no stone uncovered until you have a case against someone or have effectively ruled them out

This whole charade has been the exact opposite, the police seem to have spent most of their time avoiding and excluding obvious things that should have been extensively investigated and included, the police cannot make claims and statements about certain individuals without being able to back it up with verifiable evidence.

Who was actually running this charade ? it seems to me perhaps some influential civilian because the police chief investigator seems to have had little involvement as he knows nothing about it based on his testimony and cross examination in court

[AleG]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

[AleG]

is "dodo" the same person as numbnuts, the one seen running in the video?

Yes, Dodo, or Nomsod. The one who we saw his televised DNA show, and were told he was no match, and then discovered in court yesterday that actually, the report of his DNA test was never recieved - the lead investigator admitted that, and furthermore that he did not know where the samples are.

The police also well aware of rumours that an altercation took place involving him at the AC bar, but they didn't think it was worth following up.

Some people fall so easily for spin it's not even funny.

Do you know why the people investigating the Koh Tao murders didn't get those DNA results?

Because that DNA test was done on the 30th of October, almost a month after the men on trial were arrested and it was done to appease Social Media gossip not as part of the crime investigation; the police never requested a DNA test because he wasn't on the island on the day of the murders.

How strange that they didn't follow the rumors of a fight at a bar involving a person that wasn't physically there at the time.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....'blunders'.....???

...would that be the same as...... 'an intentional oversight'.....???

[fritzzz25]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

When you don't do 100% of an investigation, how do you expect to get a 100% conviction? You need to pull your head out of the sand and see what is going on.

How does FAILING to look for ALL evidence become a red herring? You haven't the first, second or third clue about criminal investigations or prosecutions.

It would be like if your drone fell out of the sky because the rotors fell off and you ignored that and went to look if the battery was dead, wondering why it won't stay airborne.

Edited July 25, 2015 by fritzzz25

[DM07]

Seems like Goldbuggy can't answer the more objective posts with links to an article that categorizes the Police incompetence, screw-ups and lies. Only off the wall posts speculating about the murder rate in Burma, and his diverse history of working with "red, yellow and black" peoples.

I am not a racist- I have a black friend-, but...

[Rykbanlor]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

No, it seems to me like it was an obvious path of investigation that was ignored by the cops but that should have, whatever the results, been investigated as a matter of course. A red Herring from the Defence? For what?

[Rykbanlor]

Seems like Goldbuggy can't answer the more objective posts with links to an article that categorizes the Police incompetence, screw-ups and lies. Only off the wall posts speculating about the murder rate in Burma, and his diverse history of working with "red, yellow and black" peoples.

I am not a racist- I have a black friend-, but...

GB used to be a writer for Mitt Romney's campaign in 2008.

[thailandchilli]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

CCTV of the pier and also possibly a boat leaving early in the morning is a red herring?? Sorry did they not cordon off the pier and lock down the island to stop people leaving? Well so they said but apparently they never did.

Please explain how cctv from the pier that could possibly hold vital info on possible suspects, passengers or people who left the island that morning be irrelevant?

"It has no bearing whatsoever in the case"???? How do you know, it was never viewed.

[kiwikeith]

Koh Tao police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

In testimony in court today, Lieutenant Colonel Kewalee Chanpan, from the forensic division of the Royal Thai Police, said that while the swabs used to obtain the DNA samples from the scene, and the victims’ and suspects’ bodies, would have been destroyed in the testing process, traces of the the DNA extracted from those swabs would still be available for retesting.

The police lieutenant colonel explained that trace DNA material is generally conserved for at least one to two years by the police forensics department.

While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation. The officials responsible for the testing of DNA samples taken from the bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and 24 year-old David Miller, will appear in court tomorrow. The defence team had already been told by the Royal Thai Police that it could re-examine a few items, including the alleged murder weapon which is a garden hoe. But in court today, based on the new testimony, the defence team was given fresh hope that the more crucial evidence could also be re-examined.

The prosecution claims DNA from the two Burmese suspects, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both aged 22, was found on or in Ms Witheridge’s body. The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok.

The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defence.”

Not investigated

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Read more: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

"...While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation."

....should be true...

From my understanding in many countries this would be stop down in 2 seconds by the defense.

her testimony has added absolutely nothing to these proceedings, why are we now going to have to revisit this session today with the people who are claimed to have actually done the lab work ?

The one good thing about this situation is the fact that the next person to examine the DNA (if it exists) is the generally highly respected uncorruptable Pornthip Rojanasunand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornthip_Rojanasunand

THE SILENCE!

BRITISH POLICE COULD AND SHOULD HAVE TAKEN DNA from the victims.

The Bankok public fiasco of the said one giving DNA in public has (according to the press link here on TV) never been tested.

The altercation in the bar never investigated.

The missing cctv footage.

DICLOSURE, does not exist, how could this fiasco get this far without disclosure, the case must be thrown out.

The parents of the victims should stand up and be counted they could stop this .

I know that it is a tough call but they should , so should the British police, but then again a politician is a born liar and professional con artist and in todays world not afraid to let murder be legal.

[kiwikeith]

Koh Tao police quizzed on why they didn’t look into rumoured bar dispute

Sarah Yuen in Thailand

In testimony in court today, Lieutenant Colonel Kewalee Chanpan, from the forensic division of the Royal Thai Police, said that while the swabs used to obtain the DNA samples from the scene, and the victims’ and suspects’ bodies, would have been destroyed in the testing process, traces of the the DNA extracted from those swabs would still be available for retesting.

The police lieutenant colonel explained that trace DNA material is generally conserved for at least one to two years by the police forensics department.

While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation. The officials responsible for the testing of DNA samples taken from the bodies of Ms Witheridge, 23, and 24 year-old David Miller, will appear in court tomorrow. The defence team had already been told by the Royal Thai Police that it could re-examine a few items, including the alleged murder weapon which is a garden hoe. But in court today, based on the new testimony, the defence team was given fresh hope that the more crucial evidence could also be re-examined.

The prosecution claims DNA from the two Burmese suspects, Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both aged 22, was found on or in Ms Witheridge’s body. The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok.

The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defence.”

Not investigated

The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death.

Read more: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

"...While she could only speak for her own examination of the alleged murder weapon, some blood-spattered items of clothing, two cigarette butts and a condom found at the scene, she explained to the court that the same should be true for all the DNA samples gathered in the investigation."

....should be true...

From my understanding in many countries this would be stop down in 2 seconds by the defense.

her testimony has added absolutely nothing to these proceedings, why are we now going to have to revisit this session today with the people who are claimed to have actually done the lab work ?

The one good thing about this situation is the fact that the next person to examine the DNA (if it exists) is the generally highly respected uncorruptable Pornthip Rojanasunand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornthip_Rojanasunand

THE SILENCE!

BRITISH POLICE COULD AND SHOULD HAVE TAKEN DNA from the victims.

The Bankok public fiasco of the said one giving DNA in public has (according to the press link here on TV) never been tested.

The altercation in the bar never investigated.

The missing cctv footage.

DICLOSURE, does not exist, how could this fiasco get this far without disclosure, the case must be thrown out.

The parents of the victims should stand up and be counted they could stop this .

I know that it is a tough call but they should , so should the British police, but then again a politician is a born liar and professional con artist and in todays world not afraid to let murder be legal.

[Rykbanlor]

is "dodo" the same person as numbnuts, the one seen running in the video?

Yes, Dodo, or Nomsod. The one who we saw his televised DNA show, and were told he was no match, and then discovered in court yesterday that actually, the report of his DNA test was never recieved - the lead investigator admitted that, and furthermore that he did not know where the samples are.

The police also well aware of rumours that an altercation took place involving him at the AC bar, but they didn't think it was worth following up.

Some people fall so easily for spin it's not even funny.

Do you know why the people investigating the Koh Tao murders didn't get those DNA results?

Because that DNA test was done on the 30th of October, almost a month after the men on trial were arrested and it was done to appease Social Media gossip not as part of the crime investigation; the police never requested a DNA test because he wasn't on the island on the day of the murders.

How strange that they didn't follow the rumors of a fight at a bar involving a person that wasn't physically there at the time.

And there's your spinner! So they only DNA tested for the public's benefit, and then tossed the reports and samples in the bin, Yep, that makes sense. How strange they didn't investigate rumours,...........Even rumours should be investigated - Police often have to deal with rumours, some of which turn out to be true.

Did you also read the Daily Mail article that listed all the things the Police, the lead investigator, didn't know, didn't consider, or didn't bother to chase up?

Kindly break it down and send your explanation for each instance of the lead investigator not knowing or doing or investigating something and how it is excusable.

We will wait.

[boomerangutang]

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

First off, it was RTP which mentioned CCTV which they didn't look at ('not important') from beach - and RTP mentioned there was a report of a boat leaving 1 hour after the crime. A big yawn from investigators who would rather be on a beach drinking caffeine-additive drinks and gawking at bikini-clad farang chicks.

'... no bearing on case?' Well, I'm glad AleG is not leading an investigative team. He might have said the same of the bloody hoe at the crime scene 'no bearing on case' - 'maybe it was used to kill a chicken - let's bury it, before anyone gets any silly ideas like it might be connected to the murders in some way.'

KT cops untrained, brainless, thugs never held accountable. Will they be accountable in this case?

No.

[AleG]

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

No, it seems to me like it was an obvious path of investigation that was ignored by the cops but that should have, whatever the results, been investigated as a matter of course. A red Herring from the Defence? For what?

It's a red herring because whatever went on at the pier is not part of the case the prosecution has put together against the men on trial.

The investigation team collected enough evidence against the two Burmese to indict them and none of it relates to footage from that pier, harping on that will not prove the DNA evidence is false, it's not going to prove they were not near the scene of the crime, it's not going to prove they were not in possession of one of the victim's phone, it's not going to erase any of their four confessions, etc, etc...

[AleG]

Yes, Dodo, or Nomsod. The one who we saw his televised DNA show, and were told he was no match, and then discovered in court yesterday that actually, the report of his DNA test was never recieved - the lead investigator admitted that, and furthermore that he did not know where the samples are.

The police also well aware of rumours that an altercation took place involving him at the AC bar, but they didn't think it was worth following up.

Some people fall so easily for spin it's not even funny.

Do you know why the people investigating the Koh Tao murders didn't get those DNA results?

Because that DNA test was done on the 30th of October, almost a month after the men on trial were arrested and it was done to appease Social Media gossip not as part of the crime investigation; the police never requested a DNA test because he wasn't on the island on the day of the murders.

How strange that they didn't follow the rumors of a fight at a bar involving a person that wasn't physically there at the time.

And there's your spinner! So they only DNA tested for the public's benefit, and then tossed the reports and samples in the bin, Yep, that makes sense. How strange they didn't investigate rumours,...........Even rumours should be investigated - Police often have to deal with rumours, some of which turn out to be true.

Did you also read the Daily Mail article that listed all the things the Police, the lead investigator, didn't know, didn't consider, or didn't bother to chase up?

Kindly break it down and send your explanation for each instance of the lead investigator not knowing or doing or investigating something and how it is excusable.

We will wait.

They investigated the rumors, that's how they found out the person being accused was not on the island; that rumor turned out to be false, it hasn't stopped the same people that created it on the first place to keep coming up with new ones.

[apetley]

No news prior to the discovery that the DNA why can be retested again.

Why such a Victory Parade over nothing?

Was it because the Top Investigator didn't think to ask the person who was rumored to have an altercation with Hannah? I wonder how he could since his area was on the Island and this Dodo Guy was reported to be in Bangkok. So the person wanted for questioning was now put in the hands of the Bangkok Police. Who cleared him.

Or was this parade about not checking the CCTV Camera at the pier. This pier belongs to the Ferry Boat Company for the loading and unloading of passengers. What do you hope to see from that CCTV Footage. A man getting on board the ferry with a sign on his back saying "I did it"? Or was it the CCTV Footage of some mysterious boat leaving 1 hour after the murders? Wonder how the Defense Team knew this? But if this is it then consider this also.

The time of death for both victims was first reported soon after the discoveries to be between 2 am and 4 am. Obviously 11 months later we know it couldn't be 2 am. But I have never seen one after this report that says different. Not to say it doesn't not exist. Some quoted here 4:30 am. I have no idea where he got that from but lets use that time even for the sake of argument.

This fast Boat was reported to have left 1 hour after the murders. I don't recall it said from the pier, as this is private property of the Ferry Boat Company, but for the sake of argument again, that's say this is so. That places this boat leaving at 5:30 am at the latest. The sun did not come up until after 6 am that day.So how many lights would a Ferry Boat Company put on their pier when they never board passengers at night time or off load them then.

But again if they did have lights how many actually worked? Like 2 out of 3 and like the CCTV Cameras, or less? But under perfect conditions what would you expect to see? Just another grainy picture showing the back of someones head who 25% would say it in Nomsod, 25% would say it was Mon, and 50% would say it looks like there kid brother and wonder where he was that night.

As the Man rightful stated, the CCTV Footage from the pier was not relevant as you are not going to see a bloody thing that time in the morning anyway. Even the partially blind gardener who found his hoe in the dark couldn't see that.

Or lastly was it the Hoe that a police man was questioned about why he didn't turn it in for DNA and he only told the Defense his end of the investigation. That he looked at it through a magnify glass and didn't see any finger prints or blood on it. But then the Specialist for the Forensics comes on the stand and says it was tested for finger prints, and none were found. That the only DNA discovered belonged to Hannah.

I mean if the Defense is going to ask questions why not ask the people involved. How would any police man on the Island know what is going on someplace else with DNA. It is not there job to know that.The same as if you go out and ask a traffic cop in Bangkok to name the 5 Police Men who were on the Island at the morning of these crimes. Chances are he wouldn't know that either, Because it is not his job to know, His job is to direct Traffic in Bangkok. The Investigators job on the Island was to Investigate.

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

Just suppose it showed somebody who was previously thought not to be on the island, would that not be relevant? I'll guess we'll never know now.

[fritzzz25]

The CCTV footage from the pier is a red herring from the defense, it has no bearing whatsoever in the case against the two Burmese men.

No, it seems to me like it was an obvious path of investigation that was ignored by the cops but that should have, whatever the results, been investigated as a matter of course. A red Herring from the Defence? For what?

It's a red herring because whatever went on at the pier is not part of the case the prosecution has put together against the men on trial.

The investigation team collected enough evidence against the two Burmese to indict them and none of it relates to footage from that pier, harping on that will not prove the DNA evidence is false, it's not going to prove they were not near the scene of the crime, it's not going to prove they were not in possession of one of the victim's phone, it's not going to erase any of their four confessions, etc, etc...

Keep on drinking the Kool Aid. I am sure you probably have the mixing spoon in your pocket. Again, no clue about investigations. It appears that you are so narrow minded that you can look through a keyhole with both eyes. Unless you can post some FACTS on here, your comments are "conspiracy theories" as your buddy says.