Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[gandalf12]

The defence should also have the right to call for an independent DNA test. If the same evidence is not available to both sides then the case should be thrown out of court. You cant have justice if only one side has the information.

[Sooo Upto Me]

What a complete farce this is. Lost DNA evidence my ar--. Corrupt police at their very best. Throw this case out the nearest window.

Also get the Burmese guys lawyer to sue the RTP for wrongful arrest an imprisonment. But I know that will never happen.

I said all along this was a fit up, an I just can't believe some of u TV members still think the B2 are guilty.

[Lovekorat]

Without verifiable DNA there is no case for the prosecution.

Everything is circumstantial as there are no witnesses.

Lost it?

God these people are pathetic.

Is this the start of the case thrown out on a technicality scenario?

[JLCrab]

And for months now we have been reading here as to how these same people who have apparently orchestrated this (so far) Keystone Kops show can make airplane passenger manifests disappear in Surathani and Don Muang and pay off scores or more of people without one person saying boo.

[ggt]

Was either Hillary Clinton or the IRS in charge of protecting the evidence?

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Now theres confusion over the condoms. In the migrants purported confession, they said they hadnt used a condom when sexually assaulting Witheridge, despite the fact that police had said their sperm had been been found on a condom linked to the scene.

Now why would they say such a thing? perhaps they are a bit dim (cannot write also) and weren't versed in the fact that you are supposed to be quiet until a human rights lawyer butts in and interferes by telling you to deny everything (true or not).

Its impossible to read anything into that they had been tortured into the confessions with had a translator and had assaulted them.

They were tortured by the police into claiming their innocence of the crimes!! Let me thing about this - the police were torturing them until they got a denial with the reason given for their innocence which just so happened to implicate them as being the guilty parties .

On second thoughts maybe I shouldn't have thought about it!!

Meanwhile, Parinya Sirisarakarn, a member of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), yesterday gave new information about forensic evidence and claims made by the two suspects - Maung Saw and Maung Win - whom he had met.[/size]

He said they told him they had not used condoms while sexually violating the female victim, contrary to earlier police statements that sperm carrying their DNA was found on the outside of condoms.[/size]

It is claimed by Parinya that they said this. To put it to rest, let's see if the prosecution will call upon Parinya for his testimony.

The Human rights person that said they said this is Thai and don't speak Burmese. He thus used a translator to speak to them. If the translator made a slight mistake in translation - for example they said - you couldn't have found our DNA because we don't use condoms - instead of the above. His statement you mentioned is not even hear say and cant be used against the accused. The letters from the accused is also not admissable.

[Lorn]

Sky News reporter talking about his translator being warned off by mafia

https://www.facebook.com/heidi.a.zimmerman/videos/1000772946621286/

So if the translator can no longer work for him how does he know what happened in the Courtroom?

The poster hasn't made himself clear.I want to give you every chance to understand what's happening in the UK on the news.The reporting has not been updated on the news and they have just been repeating what was said over night and this morning prior to the court this morning in Thailand. It was Johnathan Samuels for Sky who's translator was leaned on..be sure when the court finishes over there there will be a updated news report.This is really getting covered and I sense the news channels sense a massive story sadly for the relatives..I'm sorry but once again your clutching at straws and I'm not letting you away with it. Open your eyes to what's happening here by the hour..The case is going out the window very quickly.

Unfortunately there is a set of posters who wouldn't listen from day 1. They had made their minds up from the start. There comments are fairly hollow now.

I spoke to the coroners office who is handling Hannah's case and whilst he wouldn't comment directly he said it is normal practice to carry out a forensic Autopsy if the condition of the body permits. I am not privy to the results how ever the insinuations are that there will be a game changing revelation. The Defence are letting the prosecution dig a big hole first.

Only 2 days in and its falling apart. Lets hope both family's speak up. There not daft, they are educated people. They also know that the UK police where denied access to the forensic data back last November.

Such a shame that whatever happens nobody will know the truth it seems.

Yeah It was pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that the Brits wouldn't want to say anything to contradict the RTP before the trial to allow them to fabricate more evidence but rather spring it on them in court. Yet the same posters would keep on with their nonsense about how none of the friends of the murdered two contradicted anything the rtp said and that showed they agreed with them. It was also clear of course that in the same way they'd been told not to say anything that would allow the prosecution to have more time to cover the massive holes in the story. Everything the RTP said = proof. Everything else = speculation/hearsay/conspiracy theory!

[Oziex1]

Didnt it take 5 or 6 attempts to get this to go to court and now this nonsense. Did they just think the world press would be to busy to turn up?

No, they knew that the world media could report the case as they don't give a damn about Thailand, human life or anything else really.

Smug in the knowledge that they will be protected by the powers that be.

[Geordie59]

Sounds like a way to let the innocent go free.

That also allows the guilty to walk as well. Powerful forces in action here trying to get out of a self created mess while saving face. Some low level police will cop the blame for their incompetence in handling the evidence.

[loonodingle]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

[jcisco]

Personally I don't buy this "we were tortured into confessing" c&%#p. They would have to do a lot more to me than just a few slaps to get a confession which would certainly mean the gallows or life in jail. Flaying or removing body parts comes to mind. The Burmese boys looked pretty healthy to me after the alleged "torture".

Sooo, electrical shock to your testicles, or water boarding, and things such as that wouldn't bother you in the least, right? God, what a Manley Man you must be!

On the other hand, I spent 20 years as a U.S. Marine, and I can guarantee that I know ways to torture that can make you curse your own mother for ever giving birth to you, make you admit to being the man on the grassy knoll in the Kennedy assassination, make you confess to being the mastermind behind the 9/11 attack, and - (here's the important part, so pay attention) - not leave a single bruise or mark on your body, tough guy.

I guess and covenants of the geneva convention and other applicable international laws aren't a topic you schooled in while a marine. And you are loudly proclaiming your ability to torture and not leave a mark, skills you just shouldn't have. So before going down this rabbit hole, you might want to clarify. Tough guy.

[rondii]

No 2 DNA's Match! Not Now! Not Ever!

You can match DNA of a child to a Parent as in many ways they are close. But being close only counts when you are throwing Horse Shoes or Grenades. Being close doesn't count as Evidence in a Court of Law.

If what you said was true then many DNA Matches they have matched for Crimes could actually be the Father, or Mother, or even a Twin Brother.

GOLDBUGGY,

You misunderstand me.

We all have 50% of our mother's DNA and 50% of our father's DNA. If you take a sample from each parent and compare it to a DNA sample from the scene of a crime it will be apparent whether or not the child of those parents could be a possible match.

I am not suggesting that the child will have identical DNA to that of either parent.

If that is true what you say, then there is also 50% of the Father's DNA, and 50% of the Mother's DNA that the accused doesn't have. So how do you scene that from the Parents to get the exact match with the accused?

I am sorry but I don't buy this. Your Theory and Revolutionary Idea may makes sense to you but not to me. I have never heard of anyone accused of Murder at a Murder Trial by using only the Parents DNA as Evidence, and I doubt you have either.

Let me try again.

50% from the mother + 50% from the father = 100%. The child does not have any DNA except that provided by the parents.

You said that the UK police could not dispute the DNA match without obtaining DNA from the accused.

Here is what I am saying- If the UK police have 'foreign' DNA samples taken from the deceased AND they have DNA samples from each biological parent of the accused they can carry out a comparison.

If the 'foreign' sample does not match to 50% of the mother AND 50% of the father then the 'foreign' sample can not be from their son.

If the 'foreign' sample does match to 50% of the father AND 50% of the mother then the 'foreign' sample MUST be from their son.

That IS evidence. It is 100% certain.

Of course you have never heard of an accused being convicted on the evidence of parents DNA. A DNA sample would always be taken from the accused - but in this case many people are suggesting that the sample from the accused has been tampered with. I am suggesting that there is a way to corroborate the DNA sample without access to the accused.

(In this context 'foreign' means not belonging to the deceased)

Your statements show you do not work in DNA testing, I do. You are correct, a person only gets DNA from their mother and father,.and although it is usually 50:50, it can be slightly different through correction mechanisms in early embryo.

Furthermore they are using a set of paternity linkage markers which are repeat sequences, and the number of repeats can change between generations.

So a little less than a 100% match can still mean a high probability it is their son, and a 100% match is not 100% certain, but again just a very high probability it is their son.

Add into the mix that the parents claiming to be the biological parents may not be (especially the father).

This type of DNA testing is about probability, not about certainty

[Oziex1]

"On Thursday, Steve Mitchell, a bar owner who was the last person to photograph the deceased appeared at court. He told reporters outside that he photographs tourists to promote the bar on the website."

Only in Thailand does a crime scene become a walk through tourist attraction.

I interpret this as he photographed them at the bar having fun with their friends not laying dead on the beach.

[DM07]

Thailand backpacker murders: DNA evidence 'lost' - police

(BBC) Crucial DNA evidence in the case of the murder of two British backpackers cannot be retested because it no longer exists, Thai police have told the BBC.

The evidence is central to the prosecution case against two Burmese migrants on trial for killing David Miller, 24, from Jersey, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, from Norfolk.

The defence had wanted it re-examined.

It comes as Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo, who both deny murder, rape and robbery, appear in court for a second day.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33457038

-- BBC 2015-07-09

Come on , defenders of the force!

"This happens everywhere not only in Thailand!"

...what is your spin on this?

[Cabra]

What a load of <deleted>.....release them,

[Lozza]

2635 people now reading

[PepperMe]

I am really struggling with this one.

Not the case..... But the level of surrealism that this case has now descended into.

So we have reports in the media in the past couple of days that the DNA sample held by the RTP and that of the UK Police do not match and therefore are now more of 'a liability' than that of 'key evidence' ...... Then a day into the trial and the DNA evidence seemingly goes missing believed to have been 'possibly destroyed'.

This is like something out of a David Lynch movie. Or maybe Laurel and Hardy may be more accurate at this stage.

But the most bizarre of the lot.... Is that some people are still championing the side of the police when it is beyond all doubt that this case against these two guys has been a complete stitch up from the day these two poor kids met with their fate.

The media in Thailand may be scared shitless to criticise the police in this cas, but I have to say I am looking forward to how the UK media portray this latest comical development.

I also wonder what must now be going through the minds of the families who seemed to have misplaced faith in the Thai legal andA police system. I guess they are starting to uderstand now why they have been hearing lots of speculation from those of us who have lived here long enough to know that the opposite is in fact the more accurate.

[Mot Dang]

The evidence is lost .... holey crap. This is a comedy of errors, boys with tight grey uniforms, you are really on the world stage now. The UK news agencies are going to wet themselves on this now,

[Mot Dang]

I am really struggling with this one.

Not the case..... But the level of surrealism that this case has now descended into.

So we have reports in the media in the past couple of days that the DNA sample held by the RTP and that of the UK Police do not match and therefore are now more of 'a liability' than that of 'key evidence' ...... Then a day into the trial and the DNA evidence seemingly goes missing believed to have been 'possibly destroyed'.

This is like something out of a David Lynch movie. Or maybe Laurel and Hardy may be more accurate at this stage.

But the most bizarre of the lot.... Is that some people are still championing the side of the police when it is beyond all doubt that this case against these two guys has been a complete stitch up from the day these two poor kids met with their fate.

The media in Thailand may be scared shitless to criticise the police in this cas, but I have to say I am looking forward to how the UK media portray this latest comical development.

I also wonder what must now be going through the minds of the families who seemed to have misplaced faith in the Thai legal police and system. I guess they are starting to uderstand now why they have been hearing lots of speculation from those of us who have lived here long enough to know that the opposite is the more accurate.

I think a Key Stone Cops analogy is more appropriate.

I can just see them falling all over themselves trying to get back into the Paddy wagon.

[phuketandsee]

Sounds like a way to let the innocent go free.

That also allows the guilty to walk as well. Powerful forces in action here trying to get out of a self created mess while saving face. Some low level police will cop the blame for their incompetence in handling the evidence.

I think you nailed it.

[Guitar God]

Sounds like a get-out-of-jail-free card to me.

[Guitar God]

Total incompetent to loose DNA samples. Whoever is responsible should be fired, stripped of their pension and jailed to save them from their own future stupidity.

[sambum]

Isn't it strange how there is a deafening silence from certain RTP apologists now that their beloved police "farce" has theoretically "blown it" by losing, yes LOSING, key evidence in an incredibly important case?

At the risk of being labelled a "conspiracy theorist" by you know who, I tend to agree with a previous poster who made the quite feasible suggestion that the prosecution have found out or suspect that the UK police have evidence that contradicts their version of the results of the DNA tests. The said evidence mysteriously becomes "lost", a lowly cop will take the can and get moved to an inactive post, and the judge(s) will have to take the written statements of the forensic specialists that the DNA tested matched that of the accused.But without the evidence, does that become "hearsay"?

[PepperMe]

So the police are saying they have no more sample and that is has 'all been used up'.

What a load of twoddle.

You only need the tiniest bit for a test, evn if you did sereral tests there would have been plenty left.

The cigarette butt alone would probably provide dozens of samples if not more. It would have been saturated in DNA.

Everything the police have come out with has been cock and bull and something you would expect a 5 year old child to come out with.

[Chicog]

What he is saying is that the DNA evidence has been exhausted and there is none left, so lets leave it at that.

There are appears to be some serious cognitive bias going on here.

A hair sample found in Miss Witheridge's hand was among samples that were lost, he said.

[gandalf12]

If the defence cant make a good case to have the charges dropped then they cant be much of a lawyer

[PepperMe]

Isn't it strange how there is a deafening silence from certain RTP apologists now that their beloved police "farce" has theoretically "blown it" by losing, yes LOSING, key evidence in an incredibly important case?

I thik the word 'losing' is you being very generous.

I would say 'destroying'; the evidence that seemingly was incriminating the RTP rather more than the defendants.

[Chicog]

The evidence is lost .... holey crap. This is a comedy of errors, boys with tight grey uniforms, you are really on the world stage now. The UK news agencies are going to wet themselves on this now,

I don't think any error was made here at all. The error was made when they tried to pin it on a couple of patsies.

[Alwyn]

Asian Correspondent piece - 'justice looks elusive'. Also mentions police admission that they had lost evidence

http://asiancorrespondent.com/134045/thailand-justice-looks-elusive-in-koh-tao-murders-trial/

Can't you read?

Where does it say the word lost?

If you eat all of the apples and somebody asks you if they can have one do you reply "no, I have lost them"!!!

The policeman uses the word 'lost'. See for yourself, last line, second paragraph

http://www.samuitimes.com/day-two-of-the-koh-tao-murder-trial/

[JLCrab]

In reply to JLCrab Post #353:-

The point is, which has already been stated, is that a translator working for Sky News has been warned off by presumably, the Thai mafia from Koh Tao. Whether that translator was working for Sky News, Reuters, the BBC, or ISIS is irrelevant - what are the RTP doing about it? And why has the roti seller been appointed as official translator for the court? Was the translator that was working for Sky News one and the same? (Sorry JD - conspiracy theory!)And if he is appearing as a witness for the prosecution, how is it possible that he can be appointed as official translator to the court?

So you're saying maybe SKY News is a bunch of wimps who will let their translator be frightened off by some goons from another island where the trial isn't taking place? Did the SKY News camera crew not have a photo or video of their translator being warned off?

Well we couldn't have expected a better comment could we.

Of course the Sky Guys making it up as well.

I've said already -- I don't see what possible advantage there is to whomever would want to scare off one or more translators. An eyewitness to the crime, maybe. Doesn't make sense.