Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[AleG]

Thing about conspiracy theorists is they're usually the minority....

And the thing about reality is that it is not determined by popularity.

[Lorn]

I personally don't trust the translator, he is in bed with police and could also possibly be getting huge kickbacks from certain people to fabricate his statements or other peoples statements, in my opinion anything he has said or quoted is highly unreliable JMO - it is also possible that B2 in isolation had no idea what was being released or about their statements (written in Thai) and alleged confessions to the media, don't forget that translation works both ways and they were likely completely in the dark until they got independent council to tell them exactly what was going on - they should have been given legal council immediately upon their arrest - exactly why this investigation cannot stand up to scrutiny or due process which most of us expect in the west

It's about time Thailand got their criminal justice and police procedures brought up to date and into this century instead of from the dark ages

This sums it up really. You don't trust the translator, you don't trust the RTP, you don't trust DNA labs in Bangkok, just say it out loud. You don't trust Thailand , that's why you and anyone following this case will never believe a word of what any Thai investigator wll tell you.

Even if it is the truth you will never believe. So theres no hope really.

The defense team and their supporters here and elsewhere have made it perfectly clear that they want to turn this case into a case against Thai society in general, Thailand's justice system and the RTP in particular.

Yesterday the OJ Simpson case came up in a debate forum I frequent and the similarities were apparent, that case was fought in the "court of public opinion" exploiting resentment over the police conduct and racial issues; thanks to that, and a sympathetic jury, OJ Simpson walked away free... at least for some years until it was proven in a civil case that he, indeed, had brutally murdered two people.

The morality of the story is that people that want to make this case anything else than the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller and whether the men on trial guilty or innocent have lost the plot.

No parallels whatsoever. The police haven't produced any evidence which is being dismissed because of a dislike for the police. They have produced nothing in the two sessions so far. The police seem clueless and the prosecutor unable to make any impression. No wonder they sent the file back to the police twice. The whole story clearly makes no sense but the prosecutor and judges are going through the motions because the police can't/won't re-investigate properly.

[stephenterry]

Just a personal experience. ive been following this case for some time and althroughout ive never mentioned this to the GF as she is typical Thai and doesnt like to dwell on the bad stuff.

Just today we are watching the tv news and as a test, i ask

how come you never hear anything about kho tao?

Now i fully expected her to say what about kho thao and no nothing of it..

No! Straight away She says..evryone knows the cops are no good there and its all BS. Prayuth just wants everyone to shut up and forget it, for the good of the country.

straight away my first thought is to ask should the parents forget? Would you forget if it were your kid?

But the penny dropped for me just seeing the look on her face.

no-one likes or is proud of this. In true typical thai style they just want to pretend it didnt happen so it might go away.

The clueless cops who drew the short straw and got sent in to the trial to "carry the dolly", they dont want a bar of it, hence the "i don know" answers.

No-on in the court wants a bar of it either as hints already it will be passed on to appeal.

so what do you think will happen?

She looks at me as if to say derrr....the same thing as always, the cops will play dumb and BS when they have to..until eventually someone in the system will be forced to make a decision..

i guess by that time everyone will be sick of it and it will go away with the B2 acquitted because of international pressure and the last thing the Bib will do is reopen the case.

Sadly,it is what it is. The thais seem to have accepted the whole thing that way, since there is not a jot anyone can do about it and the same would have applied if the victims were Thai.

so as others have stated, this will get played out the thai way. 600 pages of farang outrage on thaivisa wont change anything.

I Fear we are all wasting our time, especially those commenting abou legal procedure and standards in our own countries..all of that doesnt mean diddly-squat here.

They can deal wit it any way they want as theres no-one to tap them on the shoulder

I agree. It's logical. This is Thailand. But it could go to the supreme court to see it through. By then the b2 would be in prison for a long time. Sad

[bunglebag]

Stingray Man

We know this guy shark tooth man has previous allegations against him.

As a side note rape in an Island like KT would not be considered a serious issue due to a lack of effective reporting and investigative procedures on the Island and so I'm sure it happened quite often.

Earlier this year Phi Phi was highlighted as a major concern for unreported rapes by a Norwegian Consulate

PHUKET: A major leap forward has been taken to bring Koh Phi Phi rapists to justice, following concerns raised by the Norwegian Honorary Consul regarding jurisdiction issues which led to island rape cases failing to be fully investigated.

“We want to see police treat rape as a serious crime. We want police to bring rapists to justice. We want to ensure that police are determining whether or not an alleged victim was sexually assaulted. We want police to pursue every rape case to an end,” said Royal Norwegian Honorary Consul Pornphan Sittichaivijit http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/Phuket-police-slash-red-tape-Phi-Phi/57978

Did you spot that conversation someone posted a couple of days ago between Sean and someone else - In it Sean said there were loads of rapes on Koh Tao - Most probably get either unreported or told to not make trouble by the local 'police'.

[stephenterry]

We have DNA evidence. Prove it. That's the bottom line.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Not sure what your motivation is Big John, But I would wager all of us posting here come from countries that have functioning criminal justice systems which are separate institutions and are separated from the influence of the rich and powerful.

In what country does money and power influence criminal justice?

[Darkknight666]

I also recall NS refusing to give his DNA because it's against his "human rights"..... So what happened that made him submit? There are videos from Thai news with all this info.. It's hard to find actual articles with these details but not Thai news video coverage.

[thailandchilli]

Not sure what your motivation is Big John, But I would wager all of us posting here come from countries that have functioning criminal justice systems which are separate institutions and are separated from the influence of the rich and powerful.

In what country does money and power influence criminal justice?

Any country thats riddled with corruption

On the list of 177 countries and territories, ranked from first to last in terms of transparency, Thailand was ranked at 102^nd. The same score went to Panama, Moldova and Ecuador, which are well-known for their political corruption, crooked police, drug trafficking scandals, and kleptocratic leaders.

Many countries in corruption-riddled North Africa and the Middle East fared better than the nation of Thailand, as well as other pervasively-corrupt countries, like Colombia and Romania. http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news-archive/thailand-struggles-on-2013-corruption-perceptions-index/

[fish fingers]

I always thought Sean's alibis sucked. At least one person says he was seen that night so I dont buy that he was asleep the whole evening and night. And the blood on the guitar he was clutching so hard, why was he holding it so visibly for the Press when he left?

My gut says he was right there at the scene, maybe he had gone to see David v late or was in the area with some other thai's, perhaps people who took part in the brutal rape and murder. I'm sure heavy drinking and drug taking were involved too.

So a story was concocted after the event and he knew he had to stick to it. The blood on the guitar may have been a way to protect himself from the mafia, i.e. don't F with me as i have evidence on you. Why else would he be showing it like he did?

And he doesn't want to come back and give evidence, so he's stuck to the story ever since.

[DM07]

I also recall NS refusing to give his DNA because it's against his "human rights"..... So what happened that made him submit? There are videos from Thai news with all this info.. It's hard to find actual articles with these details but not Thai news video coverage.

That is one of the points, I made really early on, in the case!

What baffles me more: why is he the only one, with human rights in this case?

[Darkknight666]

I always thought Sean's alibis sucked. At least one person says he was seen that night so I dont buy that he was asleep the whole evening and night. And the blood on the guitar he was clutching so hard, why was he holding it so visibly for the Press when he left?

My gut says he was right there at the scene, maybe he had gone to see David v late or was in the area with some other thai's, perhaps people who took part in the brutal rape and murder. I'm sure heavy drinking and drug taking were involved too.

So a story was concocted after the event and he knew he had to stick to it. The blood on the guitar may have been a way to protect himself from the mafia, i.e. don't F with me as i have evidence on you. Why else would he be showing it like he did?

And he doesn't want to come back and give evidence, so he's stuck to the story ever since.

Sean was threatened with death one time that we can be pretty sure of... He's not talking and claims he can't help but I don't buy it. Why be so angry when people contact him for a story and expose his alias?

I agree his alibi is crap and he knows more than he will say.

[ffaarraanngg]

I don't know who is worse JTJ and the gang or the people who continue to argue with them, going over the same old ground.

[Lancashireman]

Ignoring facts, reality, debate, plausibility or anything you don't want to believe or questions it is a requirement when promoting unsubstantiated and often outrageous theories as fact.

Edit: Childish name calling, encouraging ganging up and staying on the band wagon is right up there with requirements too.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed these types of actions, I thought I was the Lone Ranger to start with. It does become tedious reading after a while but to be fair, both sides are guilty so we should be fair if taking others to task.

I know I can be a bit condescending to people and we all have our moments but I really am not seeing the kind of hatred, childish emotion, nastiness and unrelated personal attacks that seem to flow from one side. Could be wrong but also haven't seen many posting vacations given to those who believe the right folks are standing trial. Obviously I may have some bias but I also really believe it is not even close to measurable when you look at who is doing the name calling and unrelated personal attacks. Also, look at the likes these posts receive from one side. The more nasty, unrelated and harassing the post, the more likes. I don't watch posters on a personal level and have to assume many are not doing this but just the familiarity with names would indicate the most vocal people are. In further reality, there isn't even that many people still posting in this thread just us people who are either bored or have some other reason to be sitting in front of a computer for way too much time.

Another example and evidence that you've lost touch with reality more than any other poster on this site: As soon as you anxiety levels reach fever pitch you show your true colours;

Agree thailandchilli. It's quite a study in emotional intelligence and empathy of basic human instinct.

[ffaarraanngg]

I don't know who is worse JTJ and the gang or the people who continue to argue with them, going over the same old ground.

We do it so our kids are not forgotten and the travesty doesn't disappear under a carpet..

And you seriously think debating with the deluded will do this?

[ffaarraanngg]

I don't know who is worse JTJ and the gang or the people who continue to argue with them, going over the same old ground.

We do it so our kids are not forgotten and the travesty doesn't disappear under a carpet..

And you seriously think debating with the deluded will do this?

It's kept open cos "folk" read it.....Keep it going...

People like to look at car crashes.

Maybe i've just got a different opinion about arguing with the insane.

[loonodingle]

Not sure what your motivation is Big John, But I would wager all of us posting here come from countries that have functioning criminal justice systems which are separate institutions and are separated from the influence of the rich and powerful.

In what country does money and power influence criminal justice?

Dont you mean in what country doesnt it???

[fish fingers]

I also recall NS refusing to give his DNA because it's against his "human rights"..... So what happened that made him submit? There are videos from Thai news with all this info.. It's hard to find actual articles with these details but not Thai news video coverage.

That is one of the points, I made really early on, in the case!

What baffles me more: why is he the only one, with human rights in this case?

what made him submit was that the DNA was fixed not to match his

I can't remember exactly whose but one DNA sample was taken and the result was done in hrs.. completely impossible!

Why the Defence havent made anything of that I just don't know...

[glenmohr]

Not sure what your motivation is Big John, But I would wager all of us posting here come from countries that have functioning criminal justice systems which are separate institutions and are separated from the influence of the rich and powerful.

In what country does money and power influence criminal justice?

That is a baiting post that sensible folk will not answer.....Sensible folk know the answer and so do you.

Gawd.............

Sorry Big John, you will have to work that one out for yourself.

[loonodingle]

I always thought Sean's alibis sucked. At least one person says he was seen that night so I dont buy that he was asleep the whole evening and night. And the blood on the guitar he was clutching so hard, why was he holding it so visibly for the Press when he left?

My gut says he was right there at the scene, maybe he had gone to see David v late or was in the area with some other thai's, perhaps people who took part in the brutal rape and murder. I'm sure heavy drinking and drug taking were involved too.

So a story was concocted after the event and he knew he had to stick to it. The blood on the guitar may have been a way to protect himself from the mafia, i.e. don't F with me as i have evidence on you. Why else would he be showing it like he did?

And he doesn't want to come back and give evidence, so he's stuck to the story ever since.

Sean was threatened with death one time that we can be pretty sure of... He's not talking and claims he can't help but I don't buy it. Why be so angry when people contact him for a story and expose his alias?

I agree his alibi is crap and he knows more than he will say.

Unfortunately the Thai Polee wanted him away as soon as possible. While they had mon in the jail they whisked him of the island. It was a case of discharging the witness post haste with a don't come back.

He is spinless anyway. Child porn conviction done a runner from Scotland.

[Nigeone]

I also recall NS refusing to give his DNA because it's against his "human rights"..... So what happened that made him submit? There are videos from Thai news with all this info.. It's hard to find actual articles with these details but not Thai news video coverage.

That is one of the points, I made really early on, in the case!

What baffles me more: why is he the only one, with human rights in this case?

what made him submit was that the DNA was fixed not to match his

I can't remember exactly whose but one DNA sample was taken and the result was done in hrs.. completely impossible!

Why the Defence havent made anything of that I just don't know...

I'm not a expert on legal matters but rightly or wrongly NS is not on trial here so it's not relevant. However someone has posted that the Prosecution brought him up in there case so I think that changes the situation but I stand corrected by persons with more knowledge of how court procedure works.

[silverado]

I also recall NS refusing to give his DNA because it's against his "human rights"..... So what happened that made him submit? There are videos from Thai news with all this info.. It's hard to find actual articles with these details but not Thai news video coverage.

That is one of the points, I made really early on, in the case!

What baffles me more: why is he the only one, with human rights in this case?

what made him submit was that the DNA was fixed not to match his

I can't remember exactly whose but one DNA sample was taken and the result was done in hrs.. completely impossible!

Why the Defence havent made anything of that I just don't know...

this should (after the 2B will be hopefully found innocent by the judges ) be done by the lawyers of the victims' parents as they should complain about the police investigations, protesting this farce , and claiming for new investigations/ justice to be done ....

[Nigeone]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

[Nigeone]

Ignoring facts, reality, debate, plausibility or anything you don't want to believe or questions it is a requirement when promoting unsubstantiated and often outrageous theories as fact.

Edit: Childish name calling, encouraging ganging up and staying on the band wagon is right up there with requirements too.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed these types of actions, I thought I was the Lone Ranger to start with. It does become tedious reading after a while but to be fair, both sides are guilty so we should be fair if taking others to task.

I know I can be a bit condescending to people and we all have our moments but I really am not seeing the kind of hatred, childish emotion, nastiness and unrelated personal attacks that seem to flow from one side. Could be wrong but also haven't seen many posting vacations given to those who believe the right folks are standing trial. Obviously I may have some bias but I also really believe it is not even close to measurable when you look at who is doing the name calling and unrelated personal attacks. Also, look at the likes these posts receive from one side. The more nasty, unrelated and harassing the post, the more likes. I don't watch posters on a personal level and have to assume many are not doing this but just the familiarity with names would indicate the most vocal people are. In further reality, there isn't even that many people still posting in this thread just us people who are either bored or have some other reason to be sitting in front of a computer for way too much time.

Another example and evidence that you've lost touch with reality more than any other poster on this site: As soon as you anxiety levels reach fever pitch you show your true colours;

Agree thailandchilli. It's quite a study in emotional intelligence and empathy of basic human instinct.

JTJ. A interesting observation but slightly deluded. I've just checked back and was very fortunate to receive 17 likes on one of my posts and there was no mention or sign of any name calling or personal attacks or of any such response. I did however put forward some points of view in a hopefully rational and sensible way of observations I had made about aspects of this trial. Posters aren't sheep on here and in fact as far as I know I don't know anyone on here personally so to suggest what your saying is implying that people who 'like' particular post are lacking in intelligence and a ability to think for the selves. I am 100% sure this isn't the case and there is obviously some very intelligent and knowledgable people on here most just wanting the same thing. Justice for the crimes carried out.

[Si Thea01]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

Nige,

Forgive my ignorance but as I do not do Face Book, I am a bit in the dark about this character. I have seen a number of references to him, some for, some against but in so far as the wounds, I have never seen them, not that it would make any difference, seeing them and actually seeing them is quite different and to make any comparison, would be difficult. But I understand that one can note similarities in shape and size but to come to a finite conclusion would be unwise.

Given what this character has alleged, put on Face Book and in other quotes, some of which have been referred to on the forum, then it would be reasonably expected for him to be interviewed in depth, if only to dimiss him as being a person of interest. Maybe he was interviewed, do you or some others have this information and maybe shred some light on this aspect? Also, what is it with the blood on his guitar, why is he proudly displaying it for the world to see? Even though I do not know a lot about this character, if I was one of the investigators, then I would certainly look at lot closer at him. Might prove fruitless but at least no stone would be left unturned in an effort to get to the bottom of this heinous crime.

[fish fingers]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

interested to hear your theories on the guitar blood.

Yes his carbon copy injuries, his convenient alibi, his bold statement about knowing his good friend fought to protect Hannah and the statement indicating he knew who carried out the murder, And that suddenly he tried to retract both..

Then you have Mon trying to implicate Sean with a witness who claims she washed the blood off him in the early hours.. very tit for tat.

So both of these extremely dodgy individuals were trying to implicate each other hours after the murder.

Why would that be?

[Darkknight666]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

Being in Italy and still refusing to do anything but say he can't help is bullcrap. He ran to Italy, assumed a new alias and was pissed when it "leaked"... Why if he knows nothing? Why would Mon threaten him? Just to try and make him the goat? Doesn't add up and I think Sean is a scared coward.

His mom is easy to find on FB and her work is listed.. Wouldn't be hard to intimidate the guy if he knows what type of "business man" you are. In my opinion he was paid money or it's the threat of death.

[Nigeone]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

interested to hear your theories on the guitar blood.

Yes his carbon copy injuries, his convenient alibi, his bold statement about knowing his good friend fought to protect Hannah and the statement indicating he knew who carried out the murder, And that suddenly he tried to retract both..

Then you have Mon trying to implicate Sean with a witness who claims she washed the blood off him in the early hours.. very tit for tat.

So both of these extremely dodgy individuals were trying to implicate each other hours after the murder.

Why would that be?

My thoughts on the guitar blood are because as you say it was alleged that someone washed blood of him. He loves his music and I'm sure his guitar as that usually is precious to a singer/songwriter so if that blood came from something that happened that night it stands to reason he would have washed it. What's the reason for leaving it on. However the other angle could be that same blood could belong to someone involved that night and he's using it as a tool to warn people off. All,theory's that could have and should have been investigated. I saw the pictures and his postings on his Facebook that night and the replies from his friends etc and there was real fear. There's no doubt

[Heisenberg01]

The police testimony re the CCTV, he states Hannah seen entering AC bar with 3 friends, and there the trail ends not seen again so must have left via the back door.

What of her friends she enetered with, surely they had something to say but as far as i can read nothing from the prosecution about interviewing them etc.

This is very strange that there hasnt been anything either thorugh the court, or the press absolutely zip.

David entered on his own, fair enough but Hannah with 3 freinds.

Have i missed something, is there any statments from them about how they left her?

[Nigeone]

I have always felt from day one when I followed Seans Facebook site about how they were out to get him indicated he had a involvement in something. He certainly looked very scared amongst other things and with what has come out since leaves me thinking he has questions to answer. The blood on the guitar I'm not sure about but the injuries to him which look to much like David's injuries and possibly the same weapon used to have inflicted them. It's sad that regardless of fear etc that he can't find a way of coming clean with what he knows. I surely understand the fear of threats towards him but what about the fear of the B2 if they haven't done anything and could be sentenced to death. I still have faith in the UK Sunday papers in finding out some stories that wouldn't normally be heard. Even the Daily Mail which has been very active in reports etc.

Nige,

Forgive my ignorance but as I do not do Face Book, I am a bit in the dark about this character. I have seen a number of references to him, some for, some against but in so far as the wounds, I have never seen them, not that it would make any difference, seeing them and actually seeing them is quite different and to make any comparison, would be difficult. But I understand that one can note similarities in shape and size but to come to a finite conclusion would be unwise.

Given what this character has alleged, put on Face Book and in other quotes, some of which have been referred to on the forum, then it would be reasonably expected for him to be interviewed in depth, if only to dimiss him as being a person of interest. Maybe he was interviewed, do you or some others have this information and maybe shred some light on this aspect? Also, what is it with the blood on his guitar, why is he proudly displaying it for the world to see? Even though I do not know a lot about this character, if I was one of the investigators, then I would certainly look at lot closer at him. Might prove fruitless but at least no stone would be left unturned in an effort to get to the bottom of this heinous crime.

I will PM you Si Thea but I do agree with you and you notice I was careful not to directly say he was there but there is too many questions he should have been asked. The blood on guitar, the injuries, the threats he said he received and his obvious fear coupled with his statement that his was sleeping that night and didnt know anything then coming out with stories of what happened and finally him disappearing of the Island very quickly. I'm sure he's been threatened, I'm happy to come out and say that ,but threatened for what reason needs looked at. Or should,have been looked at. In my opinion he knows exactly what when on that night and might have even been involved.

[Heisenberg01]

You guys arguing the toss, your filling the thread up with bullshit, its 80% of pointless toing and afroing, its repetative and making it nigh on impossible for people who just want to keep up with the case, quote after quote after quote.

Please give it a rest..