Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[mmh8]

 

Hi guys. I've been a lurker on this forum for ages, and spent a year in Thailand last year. Hi everyone.

I've just registered an account because I feel so strongly about this, please stop beating around the bush!

Of course, what events led to the tragic events will probably never be known. But please stop messing about and admit what we do know!

Mr X's family run the bar. Mr X's family member took offence to losing face to a faramg over a girl.

The western girl and the supporting western guy were killed, the girl was raped beforehand.

Can we all just stop sugar coating this? They were both killed by Mr X's family, who in turned stiched up a couple of lowely Burmese.

The corruption of the case goes to the top, and is made ever more evident by subsequent events on the island.

The Burmese 2 will either get found guilty and be punished by death, or get found innocent and be punished by death in a different way.

The poor families of the deceased will suffer forever, unsure wether justice has been done.

The family of Mr X will/will not remain on the island.

We dont need to keep talking about the <deleted> ups at the court, because we know why these <deleted> ups are happening.

I feel desperately sorry for the families, this is a war they will never win and it wasn't thier fault, nor was it the deceased, nor was it the Burmese.

I'm really upset by this whole thing.

The sad and upsetting truth, yes. You're right, theres little point in trying to analyze any of it really, sometimes it comes out compulsively though.

What continues to puzzle me is the dogged insistence of the handful of posters who consider the RTP beyond reproach. I shouldn't really respond.

 

we are all in a situation of no involvement in this case and their is no value in arguing for or against anything, I think this has value in showing just how worthless life is in thailand. if you are thai or not thai, you are worth little to anyone. it has value in showing that in no way should any of you have involvenment with the police here. unless of course you are raking it in, in which case the law will suck your clit or dick.

there is no justice in thailand. the poster who points out that the big hat wearing general took a look at the case is closest to the truth, its closed. i've got to stop reading this crap as the conclusion seems foregone, no justice will be done. the family have to go to this farce, and they must know its a farce . if they don't go to court in others eyes they will look like they don't care.

fyi there are better sources of thai news out their, some of them are credible, or more credible.

with respect to poster that consider rtp beyond reproach I suspect they are trolling the net just for those that can't resist.

[longylong]

When you spend time on a little Thai island, as in a good few months rather than a couple of weeks, you can see that they are run by a select few, in a certain way.

For the families of the deceased now the language barrier must be hugely frustrating.

The families just want closure. As any grieving parent does.

I know this sort of thing must happen the world over but it's really distressing to watch unfurl before our very eyes.

[jackanapes]

the evidence is not lost it is all a misunderstanding then why isn't it at koh samui where it should be? the condom I would ascertain that may belong to david miller unused / bite marks on hannahs body animalistic a possible thai link cigarette butts what type of cigarettes a saliva test would determine who was at the scene of the crime .

[Rykbanlor]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

Foreign press "Stirring the shit". You mean by showing up and reporting on the trial? As far as the Police and prosecution are concerned it is probably considered so. Most other people would view that as the basic role of the media.

[JLCrab]

<snip>

It reminds me when I went to a Thai police station for the first time to report a stolen motorbike, Besides the fact that the man taking my statement was typing about 3 words per minute on a Thai typewriter, ...the cops were asking all the wrong questions! I didn't speak Thai well-enough to tell them that, and of course my Thai interpreter was too polite to suggest anything to policemen. After the 2.5 hour questioning which went nowhere, the told me that the person who stole it probably took it across the Myanmar border (1 hur north) to sell. I was aghast. I said, "why didn't you immediately contact the border guards and tell them to be on the lookout for that motorbike?!" They said, "oh, probably too late already."

I've had other encounters with Thai cops which indicate similar out-to-lunch mentality, so am not surprised at what's been happening in this KT investigation.

Gee Boomer -- do you have any Thai police anecdotes where they were smart and you were stupid?

[Jimlove]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

and Prayut could actually be God, we just dont know ... RTP could actually also be there to help and assist the people instead of robbing them ...

[boomerangutang]

As annoyed as the prosecution must be, at their flubs and at seeing their RTP cohorts screwing up thus far - they're still doing ok in the big picture of things. This is my opinion, but here goes: They're not overly concerned about getting a conviction. Though that would be cool, from their perspective, the over-riding concern for officialdom is different. The trial is meant to keep focus on the Burmese, and here's why: The most important aspect of all the shenanigans is to try and keep the Headman's people out of focus. They want no mention of Mon or Nomsod or any of their buddies' possible involvements. Just one of many indications: Nomsod's DNA was not given to Brit forensics.

So, though the road has started out bumpy, Thai officialdom is still on course. Losing some face is not good, but not as bad as allowing the Headman's people to get scrutinized re; their possible involvement in the crime and its cover-up.

[Rykbanlor]

The Burmese could actually be guilty, not easy for the Thai bashers in here to understand.

and Prayut could actually be God, we just dont know ... RTP could actually also be there to help and assist the people instead of robbing them ...

Thai bashers!!!! Right.

I've lived here for 15 years, speak Thai fluently, live amongst a family of smart liberal progressive Thais, and am fairly well integrated into society.

If I believe it wasn't the BUrmese that did it, and I have a poor view of the Police that makes me a Thai basher?

That makes all the rational Thai friends I have Thai bashers as well then.

In fact the only people I've ever met who don't regard the Police with fear or contempt are people with some kind of links to them. I am not embelleshing anything, this is my experience so far.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Goldbuggy, I strongly suggest you read up on what led up to the trial. Either knowingly or unwittingly, you play fast and loose with what's been reported/announced during the past months. The last video of the 3 boys on the mototbike was around 5 hours before the crime. The cig but wasn't found at the crime scene, but over 50 meters away. Using those two bits of info, the RTP are saying a person is a murderer and rapist if he goes to a store 5 hours before a crime, and/or if he drops a cig but on a beach 50 meters from a crime scene.

Oh sorry, almost forgot, there's also the damning DNA evidence. The evidence which the Thai PM says, "if it's a match, then they must be the murderers." One slight problem; We're finding now that the RTP don't have that evidence, .....or maybe they do, ....or maybe it's all used up (pick which announcement suits). Either way, if they have it, it's probably someplace in Bangkok or maybe still in the Headman's fridge. As my dad might say, "I trust those guys as far as I can throw them."

Oh, and the crime very likely took place between 4:40 and 5 am. So most, if not all the CCTV hours prior doesn't have much bearing. Same for the cig butt and the condom.

It reminds me when I went to a Thai police station for the first time to report a stolen motorbike, Besides the fact that the man taking my statement was typing about 3 words per minute on a Thai typewriter, ...the cops were asking all the wrong questions! I didn't speak Thai well-enough to tell them that, and of course my Thai interpreter was too polite to suggest anything to policemen. After the 2.5 hour questioning which went nowhere, the told me that the person who stole it probably took it across the Myanmar border (1 hur north) to sell. I was aghast. I said, "why didn't you immediately contact the border guards and tell them to be on the lookout for that motorbike?!" They said, "oh, probably too late already."

I've had other encounters with Thai cops which indicate similar out-to-lunch mentality, so am not surprised at what's been happening in this KT investigation.

So you have some bad experiences with the Thai Police. That does mean you we have to let 2 accused murders go, or at least until they are heard in court. If you mean up-to-date news leading to the arrest, there is not. All the new have been coming out of the Defense side. The Prosecution has stopped talking about evidence a long time ago.

I am sorry but I disagree with you about the cigarettes butts. They were found at the crime scene and matched to the ones where the accused were sitting on a log playing a guitar. Why would anyone take a DNA Sample of a Cigarette Butt from where the accused already admitted to be sitting?

They bought cigarettes at a 7-11 store before the murders. The CCTV shot of them riding a motor bike shot is a totally different thing.

As I said many time before, I don't care if anyone believes me. I have no motive. Where you at least admit to have had problems with the Thai Police. Was it not you also who claimed to get screwed on a real estate deal, or someone else.

They will have there day in court to prove what you say, or the evidence I say they have. Until then feel free to have your own opinion.

Wait until you see my post on how they found David Millers Mobile Phone. I also have another big one I am saving for later.

.

[stephenterry]

This is a copy of a post on another subject, but it does have merit to compare it to the RTP and the pro-B2 advocates.

I'll just answer an earlier question - who is "them" and who is "us"?
"Them" means people who are willing to use indiscriminate violence to achieve their ends, who don't care who gets hurt, who arbitrarily decide that this person is "guilty" or an "infidel" or "unworthy" using an arbitrary measure based on their race or their religion or their place of birth. And "them" means people who value the lives of the unworthy as nothing, and don't care if they live or die - they are collateral damage in a war of ideology.

"Us" means civilisation, people who believe in a world where the rule of law is paramount, who believe that "rights" and "justice" mean something, that people should be judged, as Martin Luther King said "not... by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character."

[berybert]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

I can answer that for you.

All 3 where captured on CCTV in the 7-11 Store buying alcohol and these L&M Cigarettes on the night of the murders and before the murders happened. They then went to the beach and sat on a log and drank and played their Guitar, which they themselves admitted to. Also 1 of the Migrant Workers, left early (1 am), and he testified to that.

The Police knew early on in the investigation that there were 3 people on the beach that night playing a guitar and singing. Nobody could identify them though, as all they knew about them then was that they were singing a Country Western Song in English. They were not considered suspects then and were only wanted for questioning.

The significance of the L&M Cigarettes Butts is that they were found on the beach only meters away from Hannah's Dead Body. Since Hannah and David both did not smoke, and they were the only cigarettes Butts their, they concluded that this may tie them to the murdered(s). So they preformed DNA Samples on them.

It was never really stated why, but someone got the idea to test the cigarette butts by the log, and where the guys on the beach were playing their guitar. When that DNA Matched the ones on the Crime Scene the 3 wanted for questioning where now prime suspects. Again to my knowledge, there was no details on how they were able to narrow down the search to these 3 guys, when again to my knowledge nobody could positively identify them their. But somehow they did and the accused admitted to being their at that time.

They were brought in for questioning and when they said they did not know anything about the murders and where not anywhere near the Crime Scene they were arrested on "Immigration Violations" and held in Custody. In the mean time they were further interrogated and an ongoing investigation was started as into their residence, any potential witnesses, and DNA testing to see if it Matched Hannah's DNA Sperm Sample. They confessed after the match of DNA Samples.

Could all this have been planted? Anything is possible. But then you would have to wonder about this to. Why these 2? I mean they had questioned at least 60 Migrant Workers just on the first day, so why not one of them. Half the Island is full of Migrant Workers. One media put the number at 2,000. So with all this media pressure to solve the case why not take one of them instead. Surely not everyone else has a good Alibi. Especially where the crimes took place early in the morning.

But no, the police wait a full two more weeks under intense media pressure and selected these 2 accused, out of a possible 2,000. But here is the kicker! It just so happens that 1 of the accused had David Millers Cell Phone.Since many assume that the Police had beaten a confession out of them he does not say he took the cell phone from Davids Dead Body or His Belongings. No! He says he found it on the beach that night.

Oh! What an Extraordinary Coincidence! That the 2 accused that was selected randomly out of a possible 2,000 others, and who the Police waited an extra 2 weeks to arrest them, just so happened to find the Murder Victims Cell Phone on the beach on the night murders.

Up to You!

.

You can answer nothing for me. You are a clown and have no idea what you are talking about.

[pinkpanther99]

I'm not going to start accusing anyone, especially when we haven't heard or are privy to all the evidence here.

However, I would like to raise a couple of points.

The first image below is from CCTV in a shop of guy buying cigarettes close to the murder scene.

The images below which featured heavily in the press not long after the incident is of someone running away from the scene.

Are these images of the same person? Are they of different people? Who are they?

Have they ever been questioned by the police? Have they been DNA tested?

As they were in the vicinity of the crime scene close to when the crime had been carried out or in the aftermath of the crime, will the person(s) be called as a witness to the trial?

[GOLDBUGGY]

GOLDBUGGY "Was David a Marital Arts Expert......?" The unfortunate couple were not married GB

It was never mentioned. But logic would say that since he was attacked, and if he was, it certainly would be mentioned. Don't you think?

[pinkpanther99]

If the B2 are suspects because they were seen buying cigarettes shortly before the murders took place and then a discarded cigarette butt was later found close to the scene, then surely the individual above should also be a suspect?

[mikiea]

the lost evidence story was a trial balloon to see if it would fly . well it did not , time to something else ......

[berybert]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

The police have the evidence. Have you noticed more people are joining the flock as that evidence is being shown in court ?

Ask the family now if they are still happy with proceeding. Or give it a couple more weeks and you might hear the sound of bleating coming from them.

[GOLDBUGGY]

There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.

Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?

Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?

One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.

I can answer that for you.

All 3 where captured on CCTV in the 7-11 Store buying alcohol and these L&M Cigarettes on the night of the murders and before the murders happened. They then went to the beach and sat on a log and drank and played their Guitar, which they themselves admitted to. Also 1 of the Migrant Workers, left early (1 am), and he testified to that.

The Police knew early on in the investigation that there were 3 people on the beach that night playing a guitar and singing. Nobody could identify them though, as all they knew about them then was that they were singing a Country Western Song in English. They were not considered suspects then and were only wanted for questioning.

The significance of the L&M Cigarettes Butts is that they were found on the beach only meters away from Hannah's Dead Body. Since Hannah and David both did not smoke, and they were the only cigarettes Butts their, they concluded that this may tie them to the murdered(s). So they preformed DNA Samples on them.

It was never really stated why, but someone got the idea to test the cigarette butts by the log, and where the guys on the beach were playing their guitar. When that DNA Matched the ones on the Crime Scene the 3 wanted for questioning where now prime suspects. Again to my knowledge, there was no details on how they were able to narrow down the search to these 3 guys, when again to my knowledge nobody could positively identify them their. But somehow they did and the accused admitted to being their at that time.

They were brought in for questioning and when they said they did not know anything about the murders and where not anywhere near the Crime Scene they were arrested on "Immigration Violations" and held in Custody. In the mean time they were further interrogated and an ongoing investigation was started as into their residence, any potential witnesses, and DNA testing to see if it Matched Hannah's DNA Sperm Sample. They confessed after the match of DNA Samples.

Could all this have been planted? Anything is possible. But then you would have to wonder about this to. Why these 2? I mean they had questioned at least 60 Migrant Workers just on the first day, so why not one of them. Half the Island is full of Migrant Workers. One media put the number at 2,000. So with all this media pressure to solve the case why not take one of them instead. Surely not everyone else has a good Alibi. Especially where the crimes took place early in the morning.

But no, the police wait a full two more weeks under intense media pressure and selected these 2 accused, out of a possible 2,000. But here is the kicker! It just so happens that 1 of the accused had David Millers Cell Phone.Since many assume that the Police had beaten a confession out of them he does not say he took the cell phone from Davids Dead Body or His Belongings. No! He says he found it on the beach that night.

Oh! What an Extraordinary Coincidence! That the 2 accused that was selected randomly out of a possible 2,000 others, and who the Police waited an extra 2 weeks to arrest them, just so happened to find the Murder Victims Cell Phone on the beach on the night murders.

Up to You!

.

You can answer nothing for me. You are a clown and have no idea what you are talking about.

There goes the name calling again. You are not allowed to do that here. If you have nothing meaningful to say besides this, then please go away.

[Charlie1]

this is the hoe that was inspected by forensics - it is not in the same place as the one with all the blood and there is not as much blood on it as the one in the garden bed.

hoe4.jpg

Open your eyes! This is the same hoe.

[berybert]

I'm not going to start accusing anyone, especially when we haven't heard or are privy to all the evidence here.

However, I would like to raise a couple of points.

The first image below is from CCTV in a shop of guy buying cigarettes close to the murder scene.

pic-c.jpg

The images below which featured heavily in the press not long after the incident is of someone running away from the scene.

cctv-1.png

cctv-2.png

cctv-3.jpg

Are these images of the same person? Are they of different people? Who are they?

Have they ever been questioned by the police? Have they been DNA tested?

As they were in the vicinity of the crime scene close to when the crime had been carried out or in the aftermath of the crime, will the person(s) be called as a witness to the trial?

This is the image I remember of Muang buying cigarettes. My eyesight isn't as good as it once was, but not so bad that I cant make out a cigarette packet.

Can someone zoom in on the counter and show me where the ciggy packet is, and then the make of the cig's. I am struggling to see them.

[berybert]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

The police have the evidence. Have you noticed that since they stated to show their evidence more people are joining the flock.

The family who were happy with the trial ? Give it another week and you will hear the sound of bleating coming from their homes.

[Dogmatix]

KOH TAO MURDER

Forensic evidence not 'lost': police chief

THE NATION

KOK SAMUI: -- National police chief says officer 'misunderstood; case enters third day

THE TRIAL on the murder of two British backpackers on Koh Tao entered its third day yesterday, with witnesses testifying that the Samui provincial court was not able to rule on the defence team's request for a re-examination of forensic evidence.

Chief prosecutor Thawatchai Siengjaew said the cross-examination of the witnesses would take time, but should be completed by the end of this month.

The defence team has asked the court to get the forensic and DNA evidence re-examined by the Justice Ministry's Central Institute of Forensic Science. It had initially been collected and examined by the Police Forensic Science Institute.

The trial of the two Myanmar migrants - Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun - for allegedly murdering David Miller and Hannah Witheridge has caught the attention of both local and international media as it is widely believed that they have been made scapegoats for the crime.

Miller and Witheridge were murdered in September last year on Koh Tao off Surat Thani province.

Meanwhile, national police chief Pol General Somyot Poompunmuang dismissed reports that the DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested as some of it had either been "used up" or lost.

He said this "miscommunication" may have resulted from a misinterpretation of the police investigator's remark.

On Thursday, BBC News reported on its website that crucial DNA evidence in the case could not be re-tested because it no longer exists. It quoted Pol Lt-Colonel Somsak Noorod, who led the original investigation, as saying that some of the original DNA samples had been "used up", while the hair sample found in Witheridge's hand was among samples that was lost.

"There's nothing left. It was all used up when we tested the first time," he was quoted as saying.

However, Somyot referred to Provincial Bureau 8 chief Pol Lt-General Decha Butrnampetch, who oversees the area, as saying that the evidence was not lost.

"This report may have resulted from a mistranslation of the officer's statement," Somyot said, adding that maybe the officer wanted to say that the evidence had been handed over to the Institute of Forensic Medicine after the investigation finished.

"So when the defence lawyer asked him in the court about the DNA samples and evidence, he said he did not have them. This may have made people misunderstand that the evidence no longer exists or was lost," the police chief said.

Thawatchai agreed, saying the BBC had misunderstood the officer and that the evidence had not been lost. However, he said, some DNA samples may have been used up in accordance with the examination process.

"We still have specific DNA samples from the hoe," he said, without elaborating. Police had collected a hoe from a garden near the crime scene where the bodies were found and it was believed to be a murder weapon.

British daily, The Telegraph, quoted lead defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat as saying, "We have received information from British authorities that shows inconsistencies in the prosecution case. This is significant evidence."

However, the lawyer said the evidence was not provided by British police or the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It is believed it came from examination of the victims' bodies in the UK and is tied to DNA found on Witheridge's corpse.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Forensic-evidence-not-lost-police-chief-30264238.html

-- The Nation 2015-07-11

Oh that's alright then. Nice and clear. Silly old BBC - trust them to get it wrong.

It sounds like the police chief may be saying that the 'evidence' is never lost because the analysis reports remain on police files and can be re-analysed by others, even after police have conveniently disposed of the samples. I wonder what samples he used for his media circus event where he had the VHM and son DNA tested by 4 hospitals in front of the media. If he had all the samples and could make them available to proove the innocence of another suspect, why were these not also made available for independent testing in the defence of the 2B or just sent to Dr Pornthip's dept for re-testing to remove all doubt about the police analysis? Or was the brief to the 4 hospitals just to verify that VHM and son were related.

A report from the trial said that Pol Sub Lt Napadorn of KT Police, the first responder at the crime scene, in addition to failing to seal off the scene, heaving David's corpse around, rearranging the victims' clothing and allowing a suspect access to the scene, also let the unspecified owner of the bloodstained hoe take it home for unclear reasons. It was only retrieved by police some time later. I wonder what type of educational level and IQ are required to be a Pol Sub Lt on KT.

[torpedo1970]

Thainess.....

I am sorry YOU misunderstood..... meaning no apology needed

All about saving that face

Amazing

[CapeThai]

"On Thursday, Steve Mitchell, a bar owner who was the last person to photograph the deceased appeared at court. He told reporters outside that he photographs tourists to promote the bar on the website."

Only in Thailand does a crime scene become a walk through tourist attraction.

Along with the local powerful village head man on site directing senior police how to go about their investigation.

Or rather how to NOT go about their investigation!!

[arrowsdawdle]

Thai "lost" is different, like Thai electricity.

[CapeThai]

Thainess.....

I am sorry YOU misunderstood..... meaning no apology needed

All about saving that face

Amazing

There is no such word as SORRY in their vocabulary

[minikev]

I'm not going to start accusing anyone, especially when we haven't heard or are privy to all the evidence here.

However, I would like to raise a couple of points.

The first image below is from CCTV in a shop of guy buying cigarettes close to the murder scene.

pic-c.jpg

The images below which featured heavily in the press not long after the incident is of someone running away from the scene.

cctv-1.png

cctv-2.png

cctv-3.jpg

Are these images of the same person? Are they of different people? Who are they?

Have they ever been questioned by the police? Have they been DNA tested?

As they were in the vicinity of the crime scene close to when the crime had been carried out or in the aftermath of the crime, will the person(s) be called as a witness to the trial?

Gordon Bennet!! Do you think these questions have never been asked before?

[Dogmatix]

What this policeman said is exactly what I said about it being used not lost and to be honest he's being far too nice to the foreign press who are using every opportunity they can to stir the sh!t.

I just read one guys post and it contains the words The Real Killers..I am amazed at how many people would be willing to let these two suspects go when they haven't even heard the evidence.

They have like sheep joined the flock of they are innocent and even if the teeth marks were a perfect mach they would say the Thai Police made a mould.

The family of the victims have stated they were happy after talking to the British Police with the Thai Police's finding but the flock know better.....The flock have absolutely no evidence..all they have is gossip but someone told someone who knows so and so so and his brother told my friend it wasn't them so it must be true.

Thousand of people have voiced their opinions based on gossip not one person had said anything they can back up or they would be in the court as a defense witness.....to me that is PATHETIC

Foreign press "Stirring the shit". You mean by showing up and reporting on the trial? As far as the Police and prosecution are concerned it is probably considered so. Most other people would view that as the basic role of the media.

The foreign media are 'stirring the shit' and, according to police, the defence is being 'disrespectful to the families of the deceased' by mounting a vigorous defence.

[Elfin]

Goldbuggy you made a faux pas.

You typed marital arts...........I think you meant martial arts.

It struck me as being humorous in such a tragic story and evolving outcome.

No offense meant.

[Srikcir]

We have suspects and we will be presented with evidence in court. If they are not good enough the "boys" will be set free,

No they will never be set free.

The judges will decide if guilty. Not a public jury. The PM has publicly declared that he has looked at the evidence and that they are guilty.

It's done, finished, over, before it has even begun. This is just for show so Thailand can show and say that there was a fair trial and they were found guilty fairly. What actually happens in the trial doesn't matter a jot to the outcome that is already decided.

Is there a reference of the red statment above ?

Perhaps from this news article:

PM to explain case to Myanmar during visit, The Nation 2014-10-08:

Permanent Secretary for foreign affairs Sihasak Puangketkeow said yesterday that Prayut, who will make his first official visit tomorrow, has ordered that the police report be translated into English.

"If asked during the visit about the investigation into the Koh Tao murders, the premier is ready to explain all the details about the investigation to the Myanmar"

Look like an endorsement from the PM that the two accused were guilty as charged.

leaders," Sihasak said.

[Baerboxer]

Hi guys. I've been a lurker on this forum for ages, and spent a year in Thailand last year. Hi everyone.

I've just registered an account because I feel so strongly about this, please stop beating around the bush!

Of course, what events led to the tragic events will probably never be known. But please stop messing about and admit what we do know!

Mr X's family run the bar. Mr X's family member took offence to losing face to a faramg over a girl.

The western girl and the supporting western guy were killed, the girl was raped beforehand.

Can we all just stop sugar coating this? They were both killed by Mr X's family, who in turned stiched up a couple of lowely Burmese.

The corruption of the case goes to the top, and is made ever more evident by subsequent events on the island.

The Burmese 2 will either get found guilty and be punished by death, or get found innocent and be punished by death in a different way.

The poor families of the deceased will suffer forever, unsure wether justice has been done.

The family of Mr X will/will not remain on the island.

We dont need to keep talking about the <deleted> ups at the court, because we know why these <deleted> ups are happening.

I feel desperately sorry for the families, this is a war they will never win and it wasn't thier fault, nor was it the deceased, nor was it the Burmese.

I'm really upset by this whole thing.

The sad and upsetting truth, yes. You're right, theres little point in trying to analyze any of it really, sometimes it comes out compulsively though.

What continues to puzzle me is the dogged insistence of the handful of posters who consider the RTP beyond reproach. I shouldn't really respond.

You guys crack me up.

"We know the truth" - No you don't. Not unless you were there or have access to all the evidence and have interviewed all witnesses.

The notoriety of the RTP, their corruption coupled with inefficient, ineffective unprofessional behavior is always going to obstruct justice. They follow the opportunities in a case, not pursue justice. Add to that the propensity to save face, lie, contradict, claim to know things, change statements, keep quiet when a superior overrules you, not challenge anything official, etc etc. and the chances of ever establishing what really happened are remote.

There is more interest to find a convenient verdict that suits themselves.

There are a considerable number of open questions and evidence that have not been answered or followed up, and never will be.

That doesn't mean the accused are innocent or guilty, nor does it mean anyone else is guilty. A real investigation answering all the questions, following up all the evidence, and presenting all the facts would be needed to establish that. And it will never happen.

Maybe the accused are guilty. Maybe the are innocent. Maybe they were involved but so were others. Maybe they took no part but witnessed what happened.

All speculative because I really don't know. And neither can you. Unless you have evidence you want to share with us all.