Koh Tao: Trial opens for 2 accused of killing British tourists

[animatic]

Let us ALSO not forget that a week ago the

Head Surat Thani Prosecutor was murdered in his home.

The person with the most knowledge of the evidence and it's provenance died with his throat slashed, sitting in a chair in his home.

Ostensibly a robbery gone wrong, but oh so convenient for this case, if you want to direct a verdict based on fear and intimidation on all levels... Not just scaring off of a translator....

But that (unrelated though it is) doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists and would only benefit the 2 Burmese defendants....

Sorry, I'm confused! "doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theorists" ???

JDinasia's throws out 'conspiracy theorist' when he's/she's flummoxed, and can't think of anything else to say.

If looking for a conspiracy, look no further than a couple of RTP top brass and perhaps Mon and a few others in there with them. They thought they could stitch up a plausible scenario - which would nail the scapegoats. More importantly, divert attention away from the origianal two prime suspects. But now their mean-spirited ruse is unraveling - in front of the world.

As for the prosecutor who was recently murdered: I'll re-state my prior questions, in the hope someone can answer them: Was he involved with this case? And if so, did he indicate any wavering from the required company line? If so, we'll never know, because nefarious people have devious means of killing people. At those islands, it seems common for people to get away with murder, literally.

http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/killing-surat-thani-prosecutor-man-confesses-to-murder/103840/ Niwat surrendered to police and allegedly confessed that he killed Phayong after learning that the prosecutor, with whom he allegedly had been having a sexual relationship for eight years, was seeing another man.

Rather convenient....

[Gweiloman]

Yes, the police had lots of suspects in the early days, even claiming to have "strong" evidence. They subsequently cleared these suspects and you are happy to accept their word that they mistakenly fingered these suspects. Why is it that you don't think it's possible that the RTP could have also made mistakes in accusing the B2?

I can answer that. There was lots of suspects are first but none of them where cleared on just the Police's Say-so. They we cleared because their DNA did not match Hannah's or the Cigarette Butt found at the Crime Scene.

But with the DNA Samples collected from the 2 accused, they matched both, including the Cigarette Butt, found at the Crime Scene they claim were never at on the night in question, and sperms samples taken from Hannah, which they claim they did not even see her go their.

So it is not a questioned of just there word but a statement where the 2 accused were the only ones who matched the DNA from Hannah and the Crime Scene.

I have said in earlier posts that you are either not up to date on the case history or that you like to throw in slight untruths or red herrings to detract from the main points.

They we cleared because their DNA did not match Hannah's or the Cigarette Butt found at the Crime Scene.

The cigarette butt does not prove nor disprove anything. It is highly possible that the murderer(s) is not a smoker and therefore it is obvious that his DNA would not be on the cigarette butt. The B2 do not deny being on the beach and smoking cigarettes. So the butt is really purely coincidental at best

But with the DNA Samples collected from the 2 accused, they matched both, including the Cigarette Butt, found at the Crime Scene they claim were never at on the night in question, and sperms samples taken from Hannah, which they claim they did not even see her go their.

When did the B2 ever claim that they were never on the beach on the night in question? This is another one of your exaggerated untruths.

The police "claimed" that the DNA from the B2 matched the DNA retrieved from the victims. Operative word here is "claim". Unfortunately, since the samples have been either lost or used up, we will never know the truth.

NS was cleared on the basis that he showed evidence to the police that he was in Bangkok at the time of the murders. Was this evidence the CCTV footage at his apartment, released by his lawyer, much, much later?

[phuketandsee]

Very interesting opinion piece in BP on 15th. Google "Thailand on Global Trial."

JTJ - note the phrases used to describe the RTP

[bunglebag]

GOLDBUGGY,

Nobody is claiming that the DNA test result rests on one Policemans word. Yes it has to go to a lab and pass many people.

It's the people who collected the samples and sent them. There was no forensic pathologist at the crime scene. WHatever reached the lab to be sampled has to be taken at face value, and THAT rests on the word of the people who collected it.

Also, about a week before the B2 were arrested EVERYONE on the island, including those 2 (photographs of them in line to be tested are old news) were tested and declared clear. So why did they turn up a match the second time???

What is not clear about this discrepancy??

Because, if it was really them getting their sample collected, they would have been thrown in the same pile as 200 others. How long would it take to go through a pile like that? Especially if you buy someones story that it takes 48 hours per sample? Would 400 days be close. Even using 5 stations it is still 80 days. Plus stopping all other DNA Murder Cases going on at this time.

They just never got around to theirs yet.

That 'someone' was the chief of forensics in Bangkok - chief of the department that carried out the testing. Why do you not accept what he stated?

He also said they were working on them 24 hours a day and up to 30 tests were being conducted simultaneously but no doubt you know better than him about that too?

He also can't grasp the fact that they may have more than one person working on one sample and waiting for the results of that sample before looking at another.

We should allow him a few daft statements as he's new to the case and hasn't done his homework yet. I'm sure he'll catch up!

He's already gone way over his quota!

[Rykbanlor]

The whole world is viewing this particular case with enormous skepticism, not just a group of "tin foil hat conspiracists" on Thai visa.

So did the rest of the world just pick this mindset up from us loonies commenting on here? Or are there actually good reasons why so many are taking the Police story with an enormous grain of salt. Hmmm.

[Gweiloman]

If Mod and Namsod did it why with them having all there connections and being mafia not think to dump the bodies ( sea or up in the jungle ) why did they make no effort to hide the murder weapon ?

Why would Mod just wait then go to the see the crime scene again in the morning with the police I am sure he nows that something like this can't just be brushed under the carpet?

Why would they go after Sean ? how would they even know there was any connection between them ? why let Sean take a photo ? why not plant evidence on Sean or in his room ?

This is a Family that the local expat community spoke highly off before Sean made the accusations. (local expats interviewed by the guardian even said they were known for keeping the island safe.

This is a Family that people on here think have so much power can buy of the chief of police and the general and that can change security footage in a bangkok university but can't hide a 3 foot murder weapon.

Again i am not saying the B2 are guilty I will always believe that Sean holds all the answers, but it still doesnt make sense that a thai rich kid who is set to inherit a fortune goes to university and has most probably never had to pick up a hoe or do any manual work would decide to do it, and on his Dads island.

I don't mean to be picky or insulting but your post is very much like the RTP's case to date - riddled with inaccuracies and careless with the facts (truths).

Firstly, it's Mon and Nomsod, not Mod and Namsod.

Secondly, the security footage is from an apartment, not a university.

Thirdly, no one has ever said that NS actually wielded the hoe or that he was the murderer. Refer to this post of mine back in Oct 2014

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/770056-koh-tao-murder-suspects-tell-rights-commission-they-were-beaten/page-7#entry8563814

As a senior manager, I do not do the so called manual work myself; I delegate it to my subordinates. It's like having a maid at home - you sit down for dinner but are unlikely to wash the dishes, right?

[bunglebag]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Can you link where he says it takes 48 hours. I would like to read his full statement and not some piece you cut out by you to twist to make an invalid statement.

It's an article in the Bangkok Post (I gave the date in an earlier post). I believe we are not allowed to link to Bangkok post here? and also to see any story over 60 days old you have to be a premium member. I would be happy to PM you the content of the entire report if you like but I expect you will steamroller over it anyway. Alternatively if you have premium membership of Bangkok Post I could simply send you the link. I will also see if I can find the report in an alternative publication, just for Uncle Goldbuggy.

[SamuiLoner]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

[MockingJay]

If Mod and Namsod did it why with them having all there connections and being mafia not think to dump the bodies ( sea or up in the jungle ) why did they make no effort to hide the murder weapon ?

Why would Mod just wait then go to the see the crime scene again in the morning with the police I am sure he nows that something like this can't just be brushed under the carpet?

Why would they go after Sean ? how would they even know there was any connection between them ? why let Sean take a photo ? why not plant evidence on Sean or in his room ?

This is a Family that the local expat community spoke highly off before Sean made the accusations. (local expats interviewed by the guardian even said they were known for keeping the island safe.

This is a Family that people on here think have so much power can buy of the chief of police and the general and that can change security footage in a bangkok university but can't hide a 3 foot murder weapon.

Again i am not saying the B2 are guilty I will always believe that Sean holds all the answers, but it still doesnt make sense that a thai rich kid who is set to inherit a fortune goes to university and has most probably never had to pick up a hoe or do any manual work would decide to do it, and on his Dads island.

Your answers:

1) Arrogance, pride and/or confusion and perhaps because they were disturbed by a witness (possibly Shaun with the bloody guitar?).

2) Because Mod did not have wounds or scratches from Hannah, that needed to heal (unlike Nomsod who needed a week for this), and it is common knowledge that very often murderers offer police to help with the investigation because it enables them to always know what the investigative status is. He also was at the crime scene with police to leave his footprints trampling all over it (photo evidence is available), possibly planted the cigarette buds and messed up the crime scene.

3) Sean is a key witness, most likely he tried to intervene, was also attacked and fled the scene. They needed to get rid of him. To plant evidence you have to carry that evidence around - not a good idea while everyone was on alert on that island.

4) Fear make people say the nicest things about others who have power over them.

5) If by accident the gun one is proudly showing to the foreign girl he dares to impress so much goes off and blows her brains out, he'd be in trouble, no matter what school he visits! Someone ran to his aide and smashed Hannah's head to a pulp with the hoe to cover up the gun shot.

I believe this cluster F started off as a casual gettogether with guitar, singing and dancing and then things got out of hand.

Edited July 17, 2015 by MockingJay

[minikev]

JTJ and GOLDBUGGY, conveniently seem to forget that in the ORIGINAL investigation, the head police honcho CLEARLY STATED that they had "strong evidence" that linked both Mon and Namsod to the crime. Remember that? Then, out of nowhere, said police was quickly yanked from the investigation, given a promotion and shifted to a desk in BKK, and another police big wig was appointed, and IMMEDIATELY cleared the original 2 suspects.

The police were flatly denied the cctv videos of the night in question.

Mon was supposedly in BKK at university for serious exams, but questions reveal that he didn't even show up for those exams. Now, why is that?

Mon and Namson flatly refused to take DNA

Only you seem to be forgetting the police accused a lot of people in the beginning (inlcuding a friend of the victim who they say they found blood on his clothes) and said a lot of other things that turned out to be incorrect. You also seem to be forgetting the fact, which has been repeated numerous times and linked to on these threads, that the the move in command was planned and announced prior to the murders and took place on the exact date they said it would prior to the move.

As for the rest of your post, it too is nonsense and it gets old correcting such nonsense as it will just be deflected and ignored so it can be repeated again and again.

Yes, the police had lots of suspects in the early days, even claiming to have "strong" evidence. They subsequently cleared these suspects and you are happy to accept their word that they mistakenly fingered these suspects. Why is it that you don't think it's possible that the RTP could have also made mistakes in accusing the B2?

I can answer that. There was lots of suspects are first but none of them where cleared on just the Police's Say-so. They we cleared because their DNA did not match Hannah's or the Cigarette Butt found at the Crime Scene.

But with the DNA Samples collected from the 2 accused, they matched both, including the Cigarette Butt, found at the Crime Scene they claim were never at on the night in question, and sperms samples taken from Hannah, which they claim they did not even see her go their.

So it is not a questioned of just there word but a statement where the 2 accused were the only ones who matched the DNA from Hannah and the Crime Scene.

I have a small test for you. How many peoples DNA was reported to be found on the cigarette butt and how many of those was in the B2?

[bunglebag]

how long does it take to preform a DNA Test? .

It depends on the type of DNA test. There is testing that is extremely quick (less than a couple hours). When it comes to police testing DNA, the vast majority of time is wasted in the collection, cataloging, transportation and back log at labs. There are commercial testing kits for paternity where they send you a kit and have the answer back to you within a day.

Are you arguing with the chief of the Office of Police Forensic Science?

Can you link where he says it takes 48 hours. I would like to read his full statement and not some piece you cut out by you to twist to make an invalid statement.

It's an article in the Bangkok Post (I gave the date in an earlier post). I believe we are not allowed to link to Bangkok post here? and also to see any story over 60 days old you have to be a premium member. I would be happy to PM you the content of the entire report if you like but I expect you will steamroller over it anyway. Alternatively if you have premium membership of Bangkok Post I could simply send you the link. I will also see if I can find the report in an alternative publication, just for Uncle Goldbuggy.

edited: No obvious alternative source, so please choose if you would like me to PM you the article text or the link.

[MockingJay]

Forgot to mention: JTJ, JDnasia, Goldbuggy - you are either shills or have completely lost it. Stop repeating your DNA blahblah and come up with something substancial or get out of here! You should thank the lord on your knees that TV has no "dislike" button, because then you could see in perfect detail what 99% of the posters here think of your senseless babble.

Edited July 17, 2015 by MockingJay

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

Another post in which the reply was made within the quoted post has been removed as it altered the quoted content:

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

[Gweiloman]

Forgot to mention: JTJ, JDnasia, Goldbuggy - you are either shills or have completely lost it. Stop repeating your DNA blahblah and come up with something substancial or get out of here! You should thank the lord on your knees that TV has no "dislike" button, because then you could see in perfect detail what 99% of the posters here think of your senseless babble.

In all fairness, jdinasia has been conspicuously absent as has AleG. Could be that they are away from Thailand or maybe hunkered down in intense meetings to formulate more defenses. In the meantime, newer members of the anti conspiracy theorists are holding the fort (not too well, I might add).

One thing though, about conspiracy theories. These generally tend to be espoused by a minority (9-11, man on the moon, JFK assassination, Nibiru etc). In this particular case, a overwhelming majority of a large cross section of people (TVF, CSI LA plus tens of other blog sites) actually believe the B2 to be innocent. So is it possible to brand it a CT when the majority actually believes in it?

[minikev]

I have a small test for you. How many peoples DNA was reported to be found on the cigarette butt and how many of those was in the B2?

In your own time GB........ Perhaps JTJ would like to answer this question for you. I'm sure your aware of the importance of knowing such facts when posting about a case of such importance.

[MockingJay]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

If you were following this from day one, you will know that the hate crime theory was mentioned very often there until CSI LA came up with the gun shot cover up theory. I however fully are with you on the point that someone did not get what he anticipated, lost face, etc... and this is a typical Thai thing, not a typical Burmese trait to revenge loss of face. At worst, the two Burmese were involved in post mortem rape, but that is very hard to stomach for anyone who has seen the photos of Hannah...

[minikev]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

If you were following this from day one, you will know that the hate crime theory was mentioned very often there until CSI LA came up with the gun shot cover up theory. I however fully are with you on the point that someone did not get what he anticipated, lost face, etc... and this is a typical Thai thing, not a typical Burmese trait to revenge loss of face. At worst, the two Burmese were involved in post mortem rape, but that is very hard to stomach for anyone who has seen the photos of Hannah...

Where on earth did that come from?

I suppose you believed the semen sample DNA theory as stated by goldbuggy and JTJ.

There was DNA reported to have been found on Hannah I still haven't found any reports of semen samples. The DNA samples used are all used up and cannot be contested.

[MockingJay]

Forgot to mention: JTJ, JDnasia, Goldbuggy - you are either shills or have completely lost it. Stop repeating your DNA blahblah and come up with something substancial or get out of here! You should thank the lord on your knees that TV has no "dislike" button, because then you could see in perfect detail what 99% of the posters here think of your senseless babble.

In all fairness, jdinasia has been conspicuously absent as has AleG. Could be that they are away from Thailand or maybe hunkered down in intense meetings to formulate more defenses. In the meantime, newer members of the anti conspiracy theorists are holding the fort (not too well, I might add).

One thing though, about conspiracy theories. These generally tend to be espoused by a minority (9-11, man on the moon, JFK assassination, Nibiru etc). In this particular case, a overwhelming majority of a large cross section of people (TVF, CSI LA plus tens of other blog sites) actually believe the B2 to be innocent. So is it possible to brand it a CT when the majority actually believes in it?

Excellent question! You are right - in a case like this most likely the RTP story defenders are the conspiracy theorists... Good one! What strikes me the most is that so many Thais on social media are in on this, fighting for the truth to come out despite laughable threats of government officials. You could almost call that a mini revolution, and that performed by Thais, who mostly give a toss about right or wrong when it comes to foreigners.

I find that very interesting and to me is perfect proof that the whole official story is fishy and that many Thais know exactly who did it and perhaps even witnessed the event. Word on Koh Tao was that the whole island knew who did it from day one but everyone was scared s-less of the "influencial" figures involved. You simply can't polish a turd, and the RTP obviously is very bad at polishing

Edited July 17, 2015 by MockingJay

[MockingJay]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

If you were following this from day one, you will know that the hate crime theory was mentioned very often there until CSI LA came up with the gun shot cover up theory. I however fully are with you on the point that someone did not get what he anticipated, lost face, etc... and this is a typical Thai thing, not a typical Burmese trait to revenge loss of face. At worst, the two Burmese were involved in post mortem rape, but that is very hard to stomach for anyone who has seen the photos of Hannah...

Where on earth did that come from?

I suppose you believed the semen sample DNA theory as stated by goldbuggy and JTJ.

There was DNA reported to have been found on Hannah I still haven't found any reports of semen samples. The DNA samples used are all used up and cannot be contested.

I lost you there, pal... I'm on your side in case you didn't get my drift! All I wanted to say is that your "thought" has been thought by countless other TV members before already. It's not a novum! The statement that I would believe anything goldbuggy or jtj is babbling here offends me deeply though - say "Sorry!"

Edited July 17, 2015 by MockingJay

[GOLDBUGGY]

bungelbag

Yes, to my knowledge you cannot post the Bangkok Post here. So to me that is a plausible explanation.

But lets first go over what you said he said. You said it takes 48 hours to do one DNA Sample. You said they were working around the clock doing 30 samples at one time. The media has mentioned several times they collect at least 200 DNA Samples to be tested.

So to do all of them it would have taken 200 samples / 30 sample at once = 6.66 times at 30 samples per time. Since it takes 48 hours to do one sample then 6.66 x 48 hours = 320 hours. Which is 11 days and 8 hours to be totally finished with all samples.

Now how long to get set up and take all these samples considering the Island had about 5 Police Officers and I am sure not the equipment to collect these samples. All this would have to come from other sources to this remote island including the people to take them. The also have to transport them back to the Lab. Maybe double that time.

The Media Reported from a credible source on September 30th, 2014 that the 200 DNA Sample collected from the people of Koh Tao would be ready sometime later that week. Someone here went into more detail ad even said that day would be Monday. Which would place the DNA Testing ready by October 06.

On October 1st, Win fled the Island for the main,where he was caught the next morning and was brought in for questioning. LIN dyed his hair from Blond back to Black. although no exact dates was mentioned when he was alleged to have done this.

My original post mentions that there are methods to do fast DNA Checking when this is desirable, which I linked here as proof. In my country a Road Side Breathalyzer Test is not considered evidence in a court of law. The person still has to be brought in and Lab Tested, so it is just a early indication for the Police to dig deeper.

But if the 2 accused were previously tested their, and as most claims, then their DNA Results may not have been complete by the time of their arrest. Or if it was completed may have led to their arrest shortly after that. So in no way does this suggest they were tested and then let go. They were sampled. That is it!

As to your post I am still trying to figure out relevance to this, unless you are claiming these DNA Samples should have been completed earlier. Since I just proved to you they were not, then I guess there is nothing further to discuss on this point.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-was-raped-by-two-men-before-being-killed-9765137.html

[bunglebag]

bungelbag

Yes, to my knowledge you cannot post the Bangkok Post here. So to me that is a plausible explanation.

But lets first go over what you said he said. You said it takes 48 hours to do one DNA Sample. You said they were working around the clock doing 30 samples at one time. The media has mentioned several times they collect at least 200 DNA Samples to be tested.

So to do all of them it would have taken 200 samples / 30 sample at once = 6.66 times at 30 samples per time. Since it takes 48 hours to do one sample then 6.66 x 48 hours = 320 hours. Which is 11 days and 8 hours to be totally finished with all samples.

Now how long to get set up and take all these samples considering the Island had about 5 Police Officers and I am sure not the equipment to collect these samples. All this would have to come from other sources to this remote island including the people to take them. The also have to transport them back to the Lab. Maybe double that time.

The Media Reported from a credible source on September 30th, 2014 that the 200 DNA Sample collected from the people of Koh Tao would be ready sometime later that week. Someone here went into more detail ad even said that day would be Monday. Which would place the DNA Testing ready by October 06.

On October 1st, Win fled the Island for the main,where he was caught the next morning and was brought in for questioning. LIN dyed his hair from Blond back to Black. although no exact dates was mentioned when he was alleged to have done this.

My original post mentions that there are methods to do fast DNA Checking when this is desirable, which I linked here as proof. In my country a Road Side Breathalyzer Test is not considered evidence in a court of law. The person still has to be brought in and Lab Tested, so it is just a early indication for the Police to dig deeper.

But if the 2 accused were previously tested their, and as most claims, then their DNA Results may not have been complete by the time of their arrest. Or if it was completed may have led to their arrest shortly after that. So in no way does this suggest they were tested and then let go. They were sampled. That is it!

As to your post I am still trying to figure out relevance to this, unless you are claiming these DNA Samples should have been completed earlier. Since I just proved to you they were not, then I guess there is nothing further to discuss on this point.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-was-raped-by-two-men-before-being-killed-9765137.html

The mobile testing unit set up on Koh Tao is also mentioned in the piece.

The piece is dated 28-9-14 and in it the chief of the forensics department states that DNA testing should be completed tomorrow (i.e. 29th). I have provided details of the source I refer to. Can you please give a source for your 'credible source' that states DNA testing won't finish until 6th October?

Now, would you like me to PM you the article text or a link?

Edited July 17, 2015 by bunglebag

[glenmohr]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

Just to endorse Samui's submission.

Over the last 30 years I have lived in 3 very diverse East Asian countries and travelled widely in the region.

Crimes in the region that end up as grievous bodily harm are not only rare, but close to zero, where the victim and perpetrator have never been introduced to each other previously.

Therefore unless the prosecution can bring evidence to the court that David and Hannah caused the 2 accused to lose face by insulting their guitar playing or such similar insults, then nothing would persuade me the accused did the murders. They had no motive!

[GOLDBUGGY]

bungelbag

Yes, to my knowledge you cannot post the Bangkok Post here. So to me that is a plausible explanation.

But lets first go over what you said he said. You said it takes 48 hours to do one DNA Sample. You said they were working around the clock doing 30 samples at one time. The media has mentioned several times they collect at least 200 DNA Samples to be tested.

So to do all of them it would have taken 200 samples / 30 sample at once = 6.66 times at 30 samples per time. Since it takes 48 hours to do one sample then 6.66 x 48 hours = 320 hours. Which is 11 days and 8 hours to be totally finished with all samples.

Now how long to get set up and take all these samples considering the Island had about 5 Police Officers and I am sure not the equipment to collect these samples. All this would have to come from other sources to this remote island including the people to take them. The also have to transport them back to the Lab. Maybe double that time.

The Media Reported from a credible source on September 30th, 2014 that the 200 DNA Sample collected from the people of Koh Tao would be ready sometime later that week. Someone here went into more detail ad even said that day would be Monday. Which would place the DNA Testing ready by October 06.

On October 1st, Win fled the Island for the main,where he was caught the next morning and was brought in for questioning. LIN dyed his hair from Blond back to Black. although no exact dates was mentioned when he was alleged to have done this.

My original post mentions that there are methods to do fast DNA Checking when this is desirable, which I linked here as proof. In my country a Road Side Breathalyzer Test is not considered evidence in a court of law. The person still has to be brought in and Lab Tested, so it is just a early indication for the Police to dig deeper.

But if the 2 accused were previously tested their, and as most claims, then their DNA Results may not have been complete by the time of their arrest. Or if it was completed may have led to their arrest shortly after that. So in no way does this suggest they were tested and then let go. They were sampled. That is it!

As to your post I am still trying to figure out relevance to this, unless you are claiming these DNA Samples should have been completed earlier. Since I just proved to you they were not, then I guess there is nothing further to discuss on this point.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thailand-beach-murders-hannah-witheridge-was-raped-by-two-men-before-being-killed-9765137.html

Oh Yea! Hannah's DNA Samples were not completed until at least September 19th. So start counting days from that date as they had no DNA to compare to until this time.

[bunglebag]

GB.

In your reply above you imply that I said these things, but that is not correct - the chief of forensics said these things and I have just shown you what he said.

I've offered to send you the complete article - do you not want to see it now?

and I ask again, what is the 'credible source' you mention for your claim about testing not finishing until 6th October. If you can't supply it then it's just hearsay from you.

Edited July 17, 2015 by bunglebag

[phuketandsee]

I have been following this case since the beginning and I'm aware of probably 99% of what's been said. That is to say I understand the factual, nonfactual and the theory/conspiracy options that have been offered and posted here. I will not give my bias one way or the other, but I would like to put this thought out to you followers.

I would assume that many of you have seen the terrible, obscene pictures of the poor female victims body. Her face had been smashed and almost mutilated beyond virtual recognition. It would appear that the murderer/murderers that carried out this heinous crime had a serious grudge against this defenceless young woman. A murder that was carried out with complete hatred. Right or wrong, I have a feeling that this is a statement, a statement from a person or persons who have been humiliated or who have lost face relating to one or more incidents with the victim. There will be some of you who will not understand what I am saying, but for those of you who have spent a reasonable amount of time in Thailand or understand Thai culture, you will understand immediately. That said, there must be evidence out there of some altercations or controversy that happened in the hours or days leading up to the murders. An incident that would provoke such violent reaction.

Just a thought..!!!

Just to endorse Samui's submission.

Over the last 30 years I have lived in 3 very diverse East Asian countries and travelled widely in the region.

Crimes in the region that end up as grievous bodily harm are not only rare, but close to zero, where the victim and perpetrator have never been introduced to each other previously.

Therefore unless the prosecution can bring evidence to the court that David and Hannah caused the 2 accused to lose face by insulting their guitar playing or such similar insults, then nothing would persuade me the accused did the murders. They had no motive!

Indeed - amongst all the back and forth on DNA there has been almost nothing on motive and the shills are conspicuously quiet on this one. The only motive I have heard is the B2 being "aroused" by seeing the victims having sex:

1. There is no evidence they were so engaged.

2. As has been mentioned here many times rape is not a crime of arousal it is a crime of violence and control or in this case maybe vengeance.

So JTJ etc. where are you on motive?

[GOLDBUGGY]

GB. I've offered to send you the complete article - do you not want to see it now?

and again, what is the 'credible source' you mention for your claim about testing not finishing until 6th October. If you can't supply it then it's just hearsay from you.

Did you try the link I posted there?

[bunglebag]

GB. I've offered to send you the complete article - do you not want to see it now?

and again, what is the 'credible source' you mention for your claim about testing not finishing until 6th October. If you can't supply it then it's just hearsay from you.

Did you try the link I posted there?

That says nothing about 6th October. Also UK press was regularly a bit behind with its reports.

Do you pay more credence to a foreign reporter's article or the head of the forensics department where the testing is taking place?

Do you want to see the article text or not interested now if it doesn't fit with your version?

Edited July 17, 2015 by bunglebag

[GOLDBUGGY]

GB.

In your reply above you imply that I said these things, but that is not correct - the chief of forensics said these things and I have just shown you what he said.

I've offered to send you the complete article - do you not want to see it now?

and I ask again, what is the 'credible source' you mention for your claim about testing not finishing until 6th October. If you can't supply it then it's just hearsay from you.

I believe I said you said the chief of forensics said these things. If it seemed to you that I implied you made them up, I was not. But then I can't even suggest he said them base on no media report either.

Sure. Send it to me as I will read it. Not that it changes things and that media also said the samples weren't ready by the time of the arrests.

[simonuk]

If anyone really wanted a nomsod dna sample it would be very easy to obtain .

Dna is very resiliant .

As I mentioned before I personally know of a incident i was involved in as a firefighter in which a young girl was killed and her apartment torched. Despite the heat and smoke the British investigators were able to take dna samples from a mirror in the hallway. The perp had looked in the mirror momentarily ,breathed on it and left miniscule droplets of saliva loaded with dna which the police used to identify the killer.

To say the dna is finished is horse shit and an example of how much of a joke the Thai justice system is.

Edited July 17, 2015 by simonuk

[fish fingers]

The blond hair in Hannah's hand is another piece of evidence that I can't get my head around.