Two ziplining tourists hurt after colliding mid-air in Chiang Mai

[FolkGuitar]

I dont know if Folkguitar is owner of a Zipline Company or some other "Death Wish" Adventure thingy here in CM but its obvious to (almost) everyone that the people operating these death traps have absolutely no idea what they are dealing with ...

Its amazing that some people have to defend these loonies that put other peoples life in danger by their ignorance and "mai pen rai" attitude ...

I own no companies in Thailand at this time. And I am NOT defending the zip-line companies either.

What I AM doing is advocating discovery of facts before burning someone at the stake, which seems to be an ignored principle here in ThaiVisa.

Right now, the only FACTS we have are;

that two people were injured

there was a swarm of bees that panicked one tourist

the injury occurred at a zip-line venue.

............. nothing more. Not nearly enough information to make an informed decision.

You are certainly free to make all the knee-jerk reactions, 'assume' what ever you wish to make up, and come to any conclusions you wish you based on your knowledge of all things Thai...

....But the facts remain...that we don't have enough FACTS to make an informed decision. Only conjecture. If you would feel comfortable yourself being 'tried by conjecture,' then by all means, continue to try someone else.

[MaeJoMTB]

^^

How do we know 'swarm of bees' was a fact?

Seems more a lame excuse to me.

[FolkGuitar]

^^

How do we know 'swarm of bees' was a fact?

Seems more a lame excuse to me.

My point exactly. We do NOT know the facts. Even if we were to believe that what the news paper gave us, we still do NOT have enough information to castigate the zip-line company. To do so on things we assume is wrong.

Based on past experiences, we can make certain assumptions, but that's all they are... Assumptions, not facts. Too many witches were burned at the stake, too many heretics were tortured to death, and too many lynchings have happened for civilized people to have learned nothing from the past, do the same again without facts.

What exactly do we foreigners gain by pointing fingers at Thais?

[MaeJoMTB]

What exactly do we foreigners gain by pointing fingers at Thais?

In this case, not dying or being serious injured on a Thai zip-line.

[dean008]

I do not mean to belittle events in Tunisia, but I would rather be there than in Thailand. Where is the warning Britiain?

[FolkGuitar]

What exactly do we foreigners gain by pointing fingers at Thais?

In this case, not dying or being serious injured on a Thai zip-line.

Could you please explain how complaining is keeping you safe. I can understand not going to a zip-line venue might keep you safe, but that is very different from simply complaining about zip-lines. Please... do explain how this works. Perhaps if I complain about old age I can remain young! Maybe I'll try complaining about being poor while I'm at it. I could use some extra money.

[MaeJoMTB]

Could you please explain how complaining is keeping you safe.

It's about publicizing and warning others.

I know you don't want anyone warned off, you seem to be associated in some way with zip-lines, but the rest of us are more public spirited.

Hopefully people will keep posting about these dangers until the CM zip-lines are either made safer or put out of business.

And your postings on these (and related subjects) call into doubt your claims of being a professional educator.

All the school teachers I ever met (including me) were overly safety conscious, after seeing any teacher involved in a school accident having their ass handed to them. You don't seem to give a damn about anyone's safety.

Edited July 15, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[FolkGuitar]

Could you please explain how complaining is keeping you safe.

It's about publicizing and warning others.

I know you don't want anyone warned off, you seem to be associated in some way with zip-lines, but the rest of us are more public spirited.

Hopefully people will keep posting about these dangers until the CM zip-lines are either made safer or put out of business.

And your postings on these (and related subjects) call into doubt your claims of being a professional educator.

All the school teachers I ever met (including me) were overly safety conscious, after seeing any teacher involved in a school accident having their ass handed to them. You don't seem to give a damn about anyone's safety.

You misunderstand requesting facts before panicking as not giving a damn. If you wish to run around like a chicken without a head, having absolutely no idea of the facts in a situation, that's fine with me. Personally, I prefer to know the truth before I condemn someone. I'm funny like that.

But regarding safety, did you happen to read my reply to Tywais post about Belay lines? It was post #15... the one concerning safety of zip-lines. As it's obvious that you (and a few others with their own agenda) didn't bother to read it before you posted this, let me bring it back up. I hope seeing it doesn't embarrass you too much;

I've never been to any of the Thai zip-line venues, but seeing these photos does give me cause for concern.

Neither participants have safety (belay) lines rigged to a separate line. There is no fail-safe mechanism in play. And as you say, the lines are much too close to each other as well. And one last, but very important issue; although the participants are wearing gloves, their hands are on the pulley housing! It's all to easy for a glove to get trapped under the pulley wheel, dragging the fingers into the mechanism. If moving fast enough, this could be enough momentum to sever a finger...

But perhaps it was post #24 (that you didn't read either) where I said:

This is the situation that will occur when there are no formal safety regulations in play (accidents,) being ignored in venues with a rudimentary knowledge of basic climbing safety (negligence,) or where someone is trying to save money (criminal negligence.)

We are all aware that Thailand is lacking in fundamental regulations, to say nothing of oversight of these regulations. It's no surprise that accidents happen as frequently in tourist venues as they do on the streets and highways. The question will always remain; is it an accident, is it negligence, or is it criminal negligence.

Would you like to apologize, or just continue to run around pointing your finger and shouting, while hoping no one notices your mistakes?

Edited July 15, 2015 by FolkGuitar

[Chicog]

I've done Flight of the Gibbon a couple of times. The kit seems very well put together, and the staff are extremely professional.

I wouldn't have any qualms about doing it again.

These things happen all over the world, they're called accidents.

The problem is if one mob start something and do it properly, there's always a Thai to rush in and set something up on the cheap (usually illegally and by paying backhanders) to try and snaffle some of the market and therefore money.

Which is what happened with that Kuwaiti doing the Bungee in Phuket.

[Johpa]

There should never be two people tethered to a single zip line at the same time. That was operator error although many times I have seen the guides cut it close with the next person being sent across once the first person is standing on the landing platform with the weight off the zip line and in the process of being detached. The guides should have only one person on any one line at a time but the Chinese woman did act totally irrationally as well. But again, the guides have to anticipate stupidity. The photos of two people riding "tandem" are people riding two parallel zip lines. Many zip lines always have a person tethered to two lines for additional safety.

Disclaimer: My brother in-law manages a zip line in Chiang Mai and I am friends with the staff of that operation. I think they run a very clean operation with a great emphasis on safety.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Johpa

[LarryBird]

Folkie, there is another fact in this story that we are certain of: the name of the company hasn't been published. I am sure you will find a reason for why that doesn't bother you. The author forgot, or, maybe the name is hard to pronounce. Now, remember, none of the reasons which have caused the name not to be published will correlate with the overall investigation into what happened.. Because, a lot of bee cause a lot of problem. Me see soldier with many years experience falter under same circumstance...

As you've said, you haven't much experience with zip lines, but , it is it safe to consider a zip line similar to an amusement park? And if so, can you give an example where IF a swarm of bees attacked a customer at an amusement park, where it would cause another patron to receive a punctured lung?

[Rhys]

Hmmm..sometimes, things should not be adapted as... fun, an adventure, a thrill...

[FolkGuitar]

Disclaimer: My brother in-law manages a zip line in Chiang Mai and I am friends with the staff of that operation. I think they run a very clean operation with a great emphasis on safety.

One of the key issues concerning safety is; whose safety standards should be followed?

Let's, for this scenario, imagine that a company is using a brand new, top-rated climbing harness, and brand new REI carabiners, all with locking screw gates. Everyone is wearing a helmet and leather gloves. The first 'guest' stands on the platform wearing the harness and the staff member connects the harness to the zip-line pulley, remembering to lock the screw gate and then checks that all the harness fittings have been correctly secured. Would you say that this is a safe hook-up. (The guest isn't ready to move yet. I'm only talking about the connection between the harness and the pulley assembly.) The staff member DID firmly seat the lock on the screw gate. Is this a safe hook-up?

The correct answer is yes. And no. It depends on whose safety standards are being followed. Some certification organizations require TWO screw-gate caribiners, with gates facing in opposite direction. Others are satisfied with one.

Look at the safety lines. Are there two for each person attached to their harness. Or only one? Which is required? Again, the answer is 'it depends on the certifying organization. Some say one must never disconnect a safety line from a secure link-up without having a second one still attached. This would translate in our scenario to the guest being securely clipped into the platform's safety link, getting hooked up to the pulley carriage, fastening a second safety line to the secure belay line before UNclipping from the platform.

And finally (and quickly) just how DO you attach that safety line to the harness? A large number of organizations will tie the safety line to a screw-gate (locking) caribiner, then use that caribiner to quickly clip into (and out of) a guest's harness. It's very fast and somewhat secure. But there are just as many organizations that insist that the belay line be TIED DIRECTLY TO THE HARNESS FOR SAFETY.

So who's right and who's wrong? The answer it... it depends on who is doing the certification.

[naboo]

Well the only company I know of out at Mae On is "Flight of the Gibbon". The death a few weeks back was at a different location, but sounded like it was north of the city.

Flight of the Gibbon justify their high prices by stating that their safety standards are far above other centers. I would expect them to come out with a statement in the next day or so stating that it was not their location, unless of course....

As for FolkGuitar's comments, members do realise that there is an ignore function, right?

[LarryBird]

Thanks naboo, I missed that it said Mae On.

[khunyod]

I love how the farang spend thousands of words talking about zip line safety in general without knowing what actually happened. If you can pay attention to Thai social media, you realize a few things:

- The child of a Chinese Tourist was throwing rocks at wasp nest. They were told to stop but did not and as usual the Chinese tourist parents ignored the problem. Then the wasps swarmed.

- Everyone could get out of that area who was in there, but another Chinese tourist was inbound to that platform. She panicked when she saw the wasps and pushed off back to the center of the line.

- A farang tourist was inbound behind her and they collided in mid-air.

There you have it. Discuss further my pretties.

[djlest]

2 zipline accidents in 1 month - the last one was a death - both incidents involving Chinese tourists

[LarryBird]

Not allowed to say or imply Chinese behave differently.

[Johpa]

Disclaimer: My brother in-law manages a zip line in Chiang Mai and I am friends with the staff of that operation. I think they run a very clean operation with a great emphasis on safety.

One of the key issues concerning safety is; whose safety standards should be followed?

I believe the zip line in question is certified by a European organization, perhaps from France, I just don't remember. All of the hardware is top of the line brand names that I remember finding in the Liberty Mountain wholesale catalog, one of the larger wholesale catalogs in the US for outdoor equipment. So far, over the course of the last 5 years there have been no accidents. The owner also had another zip line in Chiang Mai prior to opening this location and never had an incident at his previous location so that bring us back well over 10 years without an incident.

The problem is that zip lines are becoming ubiquitous everywhere, not just in Thailand. With the increase in zip lines and ridership there is also increase in the inevitable incident that will make headlines, usually a result of, ultimately, avoidable but equally inevitable human error.

[happy Joe]

Thank you again for a good slice of fun that offer vigilante sofa and licensed lessons givers.

It's great to be able read this prose in that rainy day. Do not change guys, we like you.

[naboo]

Another collision between two people on a zipline. This one says on a zipline at Tambol Thep Sadet, Amphoe Doi Saket. I don't know where Tambol Thep Sadet is.

The two were both Americans, one male received minor injuries and a female who was seriously injured.

Someone with better Thai reading skills than me may be able to tell more.

http://www.cmprice.com/forum/?content=detail&wb_type_id=18&topic_id=179189

http://manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000084306

Thai news source sorry, don't know of an English one yet.

edit: Tambol Thep Sadet is up in the mountains beyond Doi Saket. Jungle Flight is mentioned here as having a location at Thep Sadet. I believe this is a different location to the last which was reported as Mae On, south west of this.

edit 2: This image is tagged Dragon Flight and the location is Thep Sadet, so as ME Smith said below.

Edited July 26, 2015 by naboo

[MESmith]

Another collision between two people on a zipline. This one says on a zipline at Tambol Thep Sadet, Amphoe Doi Saket. I don't know where Tambol Thep Sadet is.

The two were both Americans, one male received minor injuries and a female who was seriously injured.

Someone with better Thai reading skills than me may be able to tell more.

http://www.cmprice.com/forum/?content=detail&wb_type_id=18&topic_id=179189

http://manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000084306

Thai news source sorry, don't know of an English one yet.

Probably Jungle Flight or Dragon Flight.

[khwaibah]

Another collision between two people on a zipline. This one says on a zipline at Tambol Thep Sadet, Amphoe Doi Saket. I don't know where Tambol Thep Sadet is.

The two were both Americans, one male received minor injuries and a female who was seriously injured.

Someone with better Thai reading skills than me may be able to tell more.

http://www.cmprice.com/forum/?content=detail&wb_type_id=18&topic_id=179189

http://manager.co.th/Local/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9580000084306

Thai news source sorry, don't know of an English one yet.

GPS:18.962832, 99.3562094 (Thep Sadet)

[Berkshire]

I dont know if Folkguitar is owner of a Zipline Company or some other "Death Wish" Adventure thingy here in CM but its obvious to (almost) everyone that the people operating these death traps have absolutely no idea what they are dealing with ...

Its amazing that some people have to defend these loonies that put other peoples life in danger by their ignorance and "mai pen rai" attitude ...

If this occurred at Flight of the Gibbon--which is owned and operated by farangs--then your "mai pen rai" comment is directed at said farangs. Unless you only engage in Thai bashing for entertainment.