Do they want farang retirees here?

[Jingthing]

How can we know if it's as many as 20 local wage level jobs for each retired expat? That is a lot of local jobs. But surely SOME jobs do exist for each expat.

The key here is IMPORTED funds.

Especially new expats, they're the best when they set up new households here. New expats buy lots of stuff like furniture. That part of it is very beneficial.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jingthing

[Cypress Hill]

That's hostile BS. I don't think that.

But, get real, people, this isn't rocket science.

They don't offer legal retirement status here, provisional as it is, because we are loved.

It's the economic benefit.

That's NOT the same thing as suggested that Thailand couldn't live without us. Of course they could.

On the other hand, the tourism industry overall is a different story. That is a very important segment here.

Easy, big fella!

I wasn't being "hostile" and I wasn't addressing you personally

[Jingthing]

Anyway, I think we are barely tolerated here and on a short leash. That's not news and it's not going to improve. Some other nations that offer retirement status are indeed more explicitly welcoming than Thailand. For those people where that warm and fuzzy feeling is important, don't come here!

[rgs2001uk]

How can we know if it's as many as 20 local wage level jobs for each retired expat? That is a lot of local jobs. But surely SOME jobs do exist for each expat.

The key here is IMPORTED funds.

Especially new expats, they're the best when they set up new households here. New expats buy lots of stuff like furniture. That part of it is very beneficial.

Take a walk up to Big C Pattaya klang foodcourt, check out the tramps sleeping outside on the wooden benches.

At least "tramp central" opposite Mikes seems to have been cleared out of the dross, or at least it was last week.

[rgs2001uk]

How can we know if it's as many as 20 local wage level jobs for each retired expat? That is a lot of local jobs. But surely SOME jobs do exist for each expat.

The key here is IMPORTED funds.

Especially new expats, they're the best when they set up new households here. New expats buy lots of stuff like furniture. That part of it is very beneficial.

The key here is IMPORTED funds.

Go check out another forum on this site, the penniless in Pattaya and idignant in Issan are venting their spleens about lack of money, exchange rates and how their gov't ripped them off, heck they cant even afford health insurance.

[billd766]

with all respect that may be more of a personal opinion rather than govt policy. Same as Ur treatment at immigration probably more a reflection of the individual or general work ethic of govt "service" depts. I have to say most at Khonkaen office brilliant and actually seem to enjoy their day.

The govt must have some policy or outlook towards retirees. It must boost the economy / modernise the locale in some areas and that seems to be what they want now.

Where I come from actions speak louder that words. Successive governments have done very little to get rid of the pointless bureaucracy and inefficient procedures that make life unpleasant for expats.

Sheryl in a recent post mentioned how it took her several days of travel and effort for each annual extension. Another poster said he was suddenly faced, after 10 years of married life here with loads of additional requirements for extension, including intrusive questioning into his sex life. When I did my last extension at Chaeng Wattana (which only took 7 hours of waiting), there was an elderly, very frail man in a wheelchair. He arrived after me, by which time the queue had built up even more. It's simply inhumane treatment and shows official contempt for the service users. If I had to point to improvements over the last ten years I can only think of a few that have benefited me: opening more provincial offices, appointment booking for extensions at Chaeng Wattana (which worked for less than a month before being scrapped), 90 day reporting online. No change in policy at all that I can bring to mind.

As for government policy, well they pour vast sums of money into the Tourist Authority of Thailand, which seems at best to be very ineffectual. They (the government) don't do anything to promote retirement in Thailand. (Compare with our neighbour next door with "Malaysia my second home", which includes a 10 year visa, allows property ownership, tax-free import of a car, a national ID card, part time working, tax free interest on bank accounts, and all required documentation can be provided in English.)

So, whilst retirees may well boost the economy, governmental xenophobia means that they don't want to promote long staying foreigners. In their minds the tourists who come for a fortnight and quickly dump all their cash here is what is wanted.

My last retirement extension at Nakhon Sawan took a little longer than usual because I was suffering from flu and the lady I dealt with couldn't hear me properly. My fault and not hers.

At NS all the staff can speak English and are very helpful and farang friendly. It normally takes me about 1 hour 45 minutes driving each way to get to NS Immigration, 10 to 15 minutes for a 90 day report and around an hour for my retirement extension. If there is a farang who is disabled then that person will go straight to the front of the queue and if it is difficult for the person to actually get to the Immigration office then someone will come out from the office to the vehicle and deal with it.

I do understand that not all Immigration offices are the same and I really appreciate that I am lucky to use one of the best ones.

I disagree with your last paragraph completely though.

In all the years I have been getting visa extensions I have never come across that attitude and that must be about 10 years now in the Immigration offices at Suan Phlu, Mae Sot and Nakhon Sawan.

[billd766]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.

And of course you know this for a fact and have the links and references to prove it?

[rgs2001uk]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.

And of course you know this for a fact and have the links and references to prove it?

Yes I know the farang concerned, he was gobsmacked, good manners and decorm prevent me from naming him.

Links to prove it, just check out the previous sums of money required for a visa, they have doubled at least, please feel free to point me in the direction of where they have come down.

I sure am glad I aint hoping for a "grandfather clause", never mind, up to you.

[elgordo38]

They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon.

The experience at Immigration really shows the contempt they have for us: elderly people forced to wait for hours to get an extension, pointless 90 day reporting (and the steep costs if one accidentally misses a report), reentry permits which are simply designed to extract more money from us, &c., &c.. Only those who fork out the big bucks for the Elite scheme get anything remotely approaching humane treatment, the impossibility for unmarried retirees to get PR (and it's hard enough for the young and married).

with all respect that may be more of a personal opinion rather than govt policy. Same as Ur treatment at immigration probably more a reflection of the individual or general work ethic of govt "service" depts. I have to say most at Khonkaen office brilliant and actually seem to enjoy their day.

The govt must have some policy or outlook towards retirees. It must boost the economy / modernise the locale in some areas and that seems to be what they want now.

If you have put down roots and have a Thai g/f or wife your a captive audience. I am just glad that I was not dumb enough to buy a condo, vehicle or other investment. Yes I am starting to feel that they on tolerate us for our bucks/bahts. It was the same in Mexico and I am sure in most other 3rd world countries. Immigrants are sure flooding European countries they just trample immigration. Sadly it great to be humane but the more you settle the more will come uneducated and no skills. Its a human tsunami.

[elgordo38]

Oh man, not again.

I'm at a loss as to what retirees think they should be entitled to here? You can't turn up on someone's doorstep and then criticise the hospitality they provide or the manner in which they provide it.

I'm not really one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd but I really do think that more than a few people need to be booking flights elsewhere.

And before anyone rocks up with the classic "Oh I've put down roots/started a business/married a local/had kids" bullshit, remember that nobody FORCED you to do any of that so you can't expect the authorities to legislate in a way that absolves you of the consequences of your own life decisions.

Every last one of you - hell, every last one of us because non-retirees have to jump through the hoops too - was aware of the immigration rules governing our stay in the Kingdom when we arrived.

We elected to remain anyway.

Suck it up and stop bitching

Ah the love it or leave it crowd are out in full force again. Missed you for a while. Duck folks. It really boils down to treating the elderly with dignity not contempt. I am to old to jump through hoops but thanks for the bullshit comment using your words. Come out of the closet your really are one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd. Your just in denial.

[SantiSuk]

Does anyone anywhere actively court immigrants? Nothing personal to you or Thailand.

Try just entering the US as a business/tourist guest if you think Thai immigration are surly! These guys are converted prison warders.

[Soutpeel]

Why should they want them?

Economic benefits. Not personal affection. Yes, there are economic benefits. The Philippines did a study suggested each retired expat creates about 20 local wage level jobs. It's not simple math. The imported money enters the local economy and gets spent around. The bank deposits get lent out. Etc.

Seriously?

What proportion of the Thai economy do you think these pensions add up to?

I think people overstate the contribution that retirees make, lets put it this way, if Thailand booted out all the retiree's tomorrow, some people try and convince us, the Thai ecomony would collaspe, one suspects in reality it may impact things by a fraction of a percent if that

[Soutpeel]

Oh man, not again.

I'm at a loss as to what retirees think they should be entitled to here? You can't turn up on someone's doorstep and then criticise the hospitality they provide or the manner in which they provide it.

I'm not really one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd but I really do think that more than a few people need to be booking flights elsewhere.

And before anyone rocks up with the classic "Oh I've put down roots/started a business/married a local/had kids" bullshit, remember that nobody FORCED you to do any of that so you can't expect the authorities to legislate in a way that absolves you of the consequences of your own life decisions.

Every last one of you - hell, every last one of us because non-retirees have to jump through the hoops too - was aware of the immigration rules governing our stay in the Kingdom when we arrived.

We elected to remain anyway.

Suck it up and stop bitching

Ah the love it or leave it crowd are out in full force again. Missed you for a while. Duck folks. It really boils down to treating the elderly with dignity not contempt. I am to old to jump through hoops but thanks for the bullshit comment using your words. Come out of the closet your really are one of the "if you don't like it, get lost" crowd. Your just in denial.

What has dignity have to do with any of this ? The rules are in place you comply with them, you stay, you dont you have to leave simple, your not demanding to be treated with dignity, your demanding specical treatment

[crazykopite]

One word " NO "

[simple1]

You invite yourself. 'Nuff said.

I'm not complaining. I only wanted to know what the party line is..maybe there isn't one. And before any of the other "if u don't like it leave" people who generally don't have any facts, information or anything useful or positive to add jump in....I come from Australia...a country who spends a huge percentage of taxpayers (my) dollars on accommodating and appeasing immigrants and refugees including a large Thai population...to the point you probably have more rights being a foreigner. I'm not the type to go to another country to live and bitterly complain things not like home but there is another side to that story often forgotten here

As an Australian you should look at the retirement requirements for foreigners in comparison to Thailand, criteria are onerous and not inexpensive; lot easier to obtain a retirement 'visa' in Thailand. e.g. if intending to live in a main urban area AUD750K initial investment, an additional annual income stream of AUD65k, medical insurance, plus nearly AUD9k for the application fee.

Australia has very rigorous criteria for migrants & refugees so your commentary doesn't stack up in when taking into account current immigration / border control legislation. To suggest foreigners have more rights in Oz than citizens is complete BS.

Edited September 5, 2015 by simple1

[jacko45k]

They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon.

The experience at Immigration really shows the contempt they have for us: elderly people forced to wait for hours to get an extension, pointless 90 day reporting (and the steep costs if one accidentally misses a report), reentry permits which are simply designed to extract more money from us, &c., &c.. Only those who fork out the big bucks for the Elite scheme get anything remotely approaching humane treatment, the impossibility for unmarried retirees to get PR (and it's hard enough for the young and married).

with all respect that may be more of a personal opinion rather than govt policy. Same as Ur treatment at immigration probably more a reflection of the individual or general work ethic of govt "service" depts. I have to say most at Khonkaen office brilliant and actually seem to enjoy their day.

The govt must have some policy or outlook towards retirees. It must boost the economy / modernise the locale in some areas and that seems to be what they want now.

It may also reflect the differing experiences between immigration offices in the country.

The bad ones in CM, and what I perceive as quite good ones in Jomtiem.

I have not felt unwelcome there, and they worked efficiently and politely.

Sure, could be easier, 90 day reporting seems superfluous, but do it on-line and no effort required. Renewing extension annually, quite a chore, perhaps after 5 years of extensions a differing, longer term retirement extension would be nice. Exit-re-entries, I dislike them too, makes me feel I am paying to get out! Let them cancel my extension if I am not back in 30 days, not immediately.

I guess we will become less and less 'welcome' as they suffer under our weight. Tourists are better, come spend, go away!

[Berkshire]

Just curious, OP. If the answer to your question is in fact, "no," would you still stay?

[Suradit69]

They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon.

The experience at Immigration really shows the contempt they have for us: elderly people forced to wait for hours to get an extension, pointless 90 day reporting (and the steep costs if one accidentally misses a report), reentry permits which are simply designed to extract more money from us, &c., &c.. Only those who fork out the big bucks for the Elite scheme get anything remotely approaching humane treatment, the impossibility for unmarried retirees to get PR (and it's hard enough for the young and married).

"They don't want us here, they only tolerate us. If they could find a way of extracting our money from us whilst we lived in another country, they'd be over the moon."

As opposed to every other country (including your home country) on the planet that is dying to have you live with them and doesn't want your money.

Why would Thailand want you here if it didn't benefit from your presence? Why do so many farang need so desperately to be loved by everyone?

[alanrchase]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.

And of course you know this for a fact and have the links and references to prove it?

Yes I know the farang concerned, he was gobsmacked, good manners and decorm prevent me from naming him.

Links to prove it, just check out the previous sums of money required for a visa, they have doubled at least, please feel free to point me in the direction of where they have come down.

I sure am glad I aint hoping for a "grandfather clause", never mind, up to you.

You don't have to spend the financial requirement every year. If you can get by on 400,000 a year you only need to transfer 400,000 a year to top up to the required amount.

[joebrown]

I think Jomtien Immigration office must be one of, if not the most 'customer friendly' office in Thailand. I've never had an issue with them, but I still hate having to go there, because I know they could, at a whim, terminate my stay here in LOS. It's a bit like going to the dentist, and wondering when/whether they'll inflict pain by touching a sensitive nerve whilst probing around, even though you're only going for a check-up and clean.

[kjhbigv]

I feel at home here. My Thai family are lovely our neighbours are really nice and no problem with the 90 day ,only Takes a few minutes here in Pattaya, duel pricing what's that?

duel pricing what's that?

I only hope you have enough money to keep you going should your wife die first.

Knew a farang on a married mans visa, had the 400k in the bank, his mrs died, he didnt have the 800k to apply for a ret't visa.

Dual pricing, wait till the visa rules are changed, oh ret't visa that will be 2 million please.

Married mans visa, oh that will be 1 million please.

"Retirement" and he doesn't have 800k to his name? How can he "retire" on that!?

[smotherb]

Is the OP Chinese? If so, the answer is yes.

negatori. Australian

Definitely yes then.

[Crazy chef 1]

Retirement..dunno...still 20 years to work my a$$ of...

[snoopy21]

They definitely want Chinese, Korean and Japanese retirees here,

But old white guys, I guess not.

I am Chinese from HK with Retirement visa. I don't see any difference! Rather, they respect faring more!

[snoopy21]

They definitely want Chinese, Korean and Japanese retirees here,

But old white guys, I guess not.

I am Chinese from HK with Retirement visa. I don't see any difference! Rather, they respect farang more!

[bazza40]

IMHO the Thais are quite smart in restricting property ownership. When you look at what's happening in Australia ( Sydney and Melbourne in particular ) the country is being sold off to the highest bidder, and screw national interest.

Obviously, those complaining about Thai bureaucracy have not experienced Australian bureaucracy in full flight. Go to any Centrelink office if a comparison is needed.

At least here you can pay an agent to smooth the way. Those willing to queue for hours are possibly regarded by Thai officials as tightwads or financially challenged, and treated accordingly.

[smotherb]

They definitely want Chinese, Korean and Japanese retirees here,

But old white guys, I guess not.

And you blame them? I think Asians are more likely to assimilate to Thai culture than Westerners. Perhaps the Thais would prefer retirees which more closely adhere to their values than have those who constantly complain and cast aspersions at Thainess.

[PattayaPhom]

It would be nice if after a set amount of extensions a more permanent visa was issued but lets ask how easy is it for a 60 year old Thai to get a visa and retire in say UK, US OZ....probably a lot more difficult that the retirement extensions available here.

[1FinickyOne]

I have had nothing but kindness and help from Immigration officers here… If you find meeting the requirements difficult, then maybe ask yourself how difficult it might be for a Thai person with similar means to yourself being able to retire in your home country…

[pmarlowe]

Sorry to the OP. It's not a yes or no answer. In general, compared with other countries, Thailand is neutral when it comes to welcoming retirees.

"Welcome" is a relative term. I worked here many years, big salary, paid more taxes in that time than several good sized Northeastern villages do in a lifetime. Am now semi-retired and working a bit part time. No change in "welcome" really to accompany my change in status, i.e. am just as "welcome" (or not) now as I was when contributing to the economy big time (as do many working expats). In other words, no special policies to benefit retirees here. And so also it goes in most desirable retirement spots around the world.

(There are more and more countries that do, by government policy, offer incentives to retirees that bring guaranteed revenue into the country. There are several in Central and South America. Someone mentioned Malaysia and I think there are a few in Europe. Policy incentives include discounts, health care programs, land ownership, tax relief, etc. Such policies are nice indeed -- if the other metrics of desirability are there -- but the countries that offer such incentives are still very few. So if policy support is the goal of a retiree then maybe he/she should probably look elsewhere than Thailand.

"Welcoming" is an entirely different notion. Things like cost of living, climate, crime, attitudes of the locals, transportation, language, ease of living, quality of health care, etc. -- the things of daily life that may have nothing to do with retirement policies -- are also key metrics in the world's best retirement locations. That is a longish list and Thailand is always on it.

Edited September 5, 2015 by pmarlowe