Cleaning lady

[oneday]

Children in a kindergarten

...and the worst grammar in any article I've ever read.

Edited September 9, 2015 by oneday

[mikemac]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

Yes. Or was, as I stated and have stated previously. Perhaps you weren't paying attention?

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda

Yes, I bet you do love that. But then I doubt you could deny being onn\e of just the persons you try to mock (in a semi-literate kind of a way).

LOL

LOL... that tells me all I need to know about you and how much notice I should take. Thanks for reading.

You know, jaidam, "semi-literate", like -

"Yes, I bet you do love that. But then I doubt you could deny being onn\e of just the persons you try to mock (in a semi-literate kind of a way)."

[rubl]

Siripon you make it sound like it's only the Shinawatra family are capable of huge corruption. Us immigrants here know all this already, but we can also step back and see the bigger picture (well, most of us) he is just one of many, MANY corrupt Thai elite that have been raping Thailand and spitting on the poor before Thaksin was even on the political scene. It happened before him, while he was in power and now that he is gone. The army are in charge right now and has thousands of billionaire generals. How do you think they all got that rich? By being good little savers/stock market experts/married to rich wives?

The corruption problem in Thailand is bigger than the Shinawatra clan.

thousands of billionaire generals.-perhaps a little exaggerated regarding numbers but you're right regarding corruption. But that doesn't make Thaksin any the better, and this thread is about Prayud stripping Thaksin of his police rank.About time.

Anyway as regards to the billionaire generals, we can't talk about it, right? We have being warned. But Thaksin, it's no holds bar. Corruption is corruption and you can't talk about one and conveniently sidestepping the others. Just show that you are agenda driven.

You may mention it, so pray tell which general has billions ?

[Jon Wetherall]

.........................."but one of them is taking money from the Thai people"................................

Grammar error ! What you should have written was - "but one of them was taking money from the Thai people".................but is now living in the desert in "self imposed exile" !

Oh, you junta lover boy,,,, where did the Gen get is wealth from ?

Nah, it's OK. You'll get used to Mike. The intellectual's intellectual. He tries hard.

Yes "Jon" ( ), you know me so well. As you should, you have been attacking me and publishing bs propaganda under a series of different names for a long time now.

Only a matter of time before you are banished again only to reappear later under the cover of a new identity.

Unfortunately for you your nasty, condescending writing style is so easy to recognize.

Flame away !

And Ikke, as usual your only defense of Thaksin is to attack anyone who is opposed to him. If you did that in a court of law the poor sap you were defending would "swing".

Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong as usual. I am not a junta lover, could not care less if they went back to the barracks tomorrow. Don't care where the PM got his money as you obviously do. But I do know know your hero Thaksin is a criminal, on the run and evading a prison cell.

You can flame away as well, as I don't take any notice of you.

( I don't mind swapping comments with guys like Jayboy and Fat Haggis as they are genuine forum members, as opposed to posters like Jon, LG etc. who are nothing but posers. )

It's a bit off-topic isn't it? Your comment doesn't address the posted article at all, it just abuses other members and makes unfounded accusations in response to a compliment. Nice.

Bound to be forum rules against that sort of thing.

[mikemac]

Nah, it's OK. You'll get used to Mike. The intellectual's intellectual. He tries hard.

Yes "Jon" ( ), you know me so well. As you should, you have been attacking me and publishing bs propaganda under a series of different names for a long time now.

Only a matter of time before you are banished again only to reappear later under the cover of a new identity.

Unfortunately for you your nasty, condescending writing style is so easy to recognize.

Flame away !

And Ikke, as usual your only defense of Thaksin is to attack anyone who is opposed to him. If you did that in a court of law the poor sap you were defending would "swing".

Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong as usual. I am not a junta lover, could not care less if they went back to the barracks tomorrow. Don't care where the PM got his money as you obviously do. But I do know know your hero Thaksin is a criminal, on the run and evading a prison cell.

You can flame away as well, as I don't take any notice of you.

( I don't mind swapping comments with guys like Jayboy and Fat Haggis as they are genuine forum members, as opposed to posters like Jon, LG etc. who are nothing but posers. )

It's a bit off-topic isn't it? Your comment doesn't address the posted article at all, it just abuses other members and makes unfounded accusations in response to a compliment. Nice.

Bound to be forum rules against that sort of thing.

"It's a bit off-topic isn't it? Your comment doesn't address the posted article at all, it just abuses other members and makes unfounded accusations in response to a compliment. Nice."

Oh you mean like - "Nah, it's OK. You'll get used to Mike. The intellectual's intellectual. He tries hard."

[wabothai]

He must have watched "On the Buses" or on the Tut Tuts when he was a kid , he has a Reg Varney hairstyle to wonder at

Mr. Spleen,

I would like to remind you that there are many nationalities on this forum.

Most of us don't have the slightest idea of what or who you are talking about.

[Jon Wetherall]

Nah, it's OK. You'll get used to Mike. The intellectual's intellectual. He tries hard.

Yes "Jon" ( ), you know me so well. As you should, you have been attacking me and publishing bs propaganda under a series of different names for a long time now.

Only a matter of time before you are banished again only to reappear later under the cover of a new identity.

Unfortunately for you your nasty, condescending writing style is so easy to recognize.

Flame away !

And Ikke, as usual your only defense of Thaksin is to attack anyone who is opposed to him. If you did that in a court of law the poor sap you were defending would "swing".

Sorry to disappoint you but you are wrong as usual. I am not a junta lover, could not care less if they went back to the barracks tomorrow. Don't care where the PM got his money as you obviously do. But I do know know your hero Thaksin is a criminal, on the run and evading a prison cell.

You can flame away as well, as I don't take any notice of you.

( I don't mind swapping comments with guys like Jayboy and Fat Haggis as they are genuine forum members, as opposed to posters like Jon, LG etc. who are nothing but posers. )

It's a bit off-topic isn't it? Your comment doesn't address the posted article at all, it just abuses other members and makes unfounded accusations in response to a compliment. Nice.

Bound to be forum rules against that sort of thing.

"It's a bit off-topic isn't it? Your comment doesn't address the posted article at all, it just abuses other members and makes unfounded accusations in response to a compliment. Nice."

Oh you mean like - "Nah, it's OK. You'll get used to Mike. The intellectual's intellectual. He tries hard."

Just trying to assist a newcomer to know about and respect an old hand, I understand that's permitted - as it should be. But there wasn't any abuse, you might have noticed that. In contrast to your post. You're wrong on all counts that apply to me but I doubt that'll make a difference. Anyway, I must get back on topic. One of us ought to.

I fully agree with the OP, that Mr P is digging a very deep hole for himself and seems not to be aware that one day he'll realise he should have bought a ladder. Because I doubt very many people will lend him a helping hand.

The old saying goes "be careful whose head you kick on the way up, because you'll meet them again on the way back down".

I don't think anyone told Mr P about that, so it'll probably come as a really big shock when it happens.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[MZurf]

Siripon you make it sound like it's only the Shinawatra family are capable of huge corruption. Us immigrants here know all this already, but we can also step back and see the bigger picture (well, most of us) he is just one of many, MANY corrupt Thai elite that have been raping Thailand and spitting on the poor before Thaksin was even on the political scene. It happened before him, while he was in power and now that he is gone. The army are in charge right now and has thousands of billionaire generals. How do you think they all got that rich? By being good little savers/stock market experts/married to rich wives?

The corruption problem in Thailand is bigger than the Shinawatra clan.

thousands of billionaire generals.-perhaps a little exaggerated regarding numbers but you're right regarding corruption. But that doesn't make Thaksin any the better, and this thread is about Prayud stripping Thaksin of his police rank.About time.

Anyway as regards to the billionaire generals, we can't talk about it, right? We have being warned. But Thaksin, it's no holds bar. Corruption is corruption and you can't talk about one and conveniently sidestepping the others. Just show that you are agenda driven.

You may mention it, so pray tell which general has billions ?

Who knows, we're not allowed to dig into it. Apparently the press found out that Uncle Too was worth several hundred million (before being warned off) but this is of course chump change and should not even be mentioned!

[NickJ]

Freeze all the family assets......

[speedtripler]

@oxo1947. Where does it state that 40million us from taxpayers was sent to him to help him along? It doesn't, that's where. Stop mixing up facts with your fiction. It was seized from his children. Maybe you need to read the link again ssssllllooiwwwllllyyyy.

Doesn't really matter, $40 million is an obscene amount of money for a thai civil servant to be in possession of... No matter how you look at it

Look at his career, 14 years in the police force, many of which were spent abroad studying etc so unlikely to have made much money in the early years but he sure made up for it when he got to the top lol

Unbelievable how greedy he is/was when he had more money than could easily be hidden in a myriad of accounts under his own and family names, he had to put millions into the accounts of his maids and drivers etc trying to hide it all...

Greed got him into this mess, he could have finished up his career still a billionaire but he kept pushing it until it collapsed and had to leave in a hurry with suitcases of cash...

A multibillionaire civil servant from a third world country where most people are struggling is disgraceful, he deserves whatever punishment he gets, all rank and privileges should be automatically stripped when laws are broken

That goes for the new guy too, he should have to prove his 700mil fortune is legit or forfeit the lot, somyot too...

[Jon Wetherall]

Freeze all the family assets......

And the family jewels.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Jon Wetherall

[Raymonddiaz]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because Thaksin was elected democratically and he wasn't........................................

[rixalex]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because he knows damm well that if it came to a choice, the Thai people would plump for Thaksin rather than him.

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

[Jon Wetherall]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because he knows damm well that if it came to a choice, the Thai people would plump for Thaksin rather than him.

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

Well, one day free choice will be available and then we'll all know. But that isn't the case today. Personally I think JAG had it right

[rixalex]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because he knows damm well that if it came to a choice, the Thai people would plump for Thaksin rather than him.

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

Well, one day free choice will be available and then we'll all know. But that isn't the case today. Personally I think JAG had it right

Not to worry. Over your head.

[JAG]

Thaksin should be ignored by the government and the media ; this will make him even more irrelevant and will reduce his influence on followers.

The government can ignore him, but the media - well they will continue to cover him as long as their market are interested. Unless of course you force the media to stop covering him...

[JAG]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because he knows damm well that if it came to a choice, the Thai people would plump for Thaksin rather than him.

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

Well, one day free choice will be available and then we'll all know. But that isn't the case today. Personally I think JAG had it right

Not to worry. Over your head.

Over mine too I'm afraid - I haven't a clue what you're talking about!

Edited September 9, 2015 by JAG

[jayboy]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

[GeckosDiving]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Thaksin could still beat him in a poulularity contest tomorrow if he were allowed to come back... Even after all the famous corruption and stolen billions...

This general came up short when he says we will stop corruption and then reshuffled all his friends into the cabinet jobs and his brother as top dog in the army

[rixalex]

Over mine too I'm afraid - I haven't a clue what you're talking about!

Play on the word "plump" at Potjaman's expense but not to worry. Just trying to lighten proceedings.

[speedtripler]

Thaksin should be ignored by the government and the media ; this will make him even more irrelevant and will reduce his influence on followers.

The government can ignore him, but the media - well they will continue to cover him as long as their market are interested. Unless of course you force the media to stop covering him...

You can't block him from Facebook and other mediums , it would be best to not even acknowledge his existence....

Everything taksin says is headline news, and the general keeps bumping it back to the top by replying

In ten years, taksin will be too old to make any comebacks, just ignore him until then and his old age and health will take him out of the game

[JAG]

He must have watched "On the Buses" or on the Tut Tuts when he was a kid , he has a Reg Varney hairstyle to wonder at

Mr. Spleen,

I would like to remind you that there are many nationalities on this forum.

Most of us don't have the slightest idea of what or who you are talking about.

Fair point, but for those of us ( old enough and British) who do it's jolly funny! Edited September 9, 2015 by JAG

[phoenixdoglover]

Thaksin Derangement Syndrome!

Believe it or not, I don't think about Thaksin every day, but I think (maybe) the PM does.

A few observation about these wonderful discussions, all intended as light-hearted (I would love to have a beer with each one of you)...

Yes, rubl, Thaksin is a "fugitive criminal". How many times can you get that phrase into a sentence?

No, Thaksin is not "counting grains of sand" in Dubai. Dubai is no garden spot, but it does have world class restaurants, entertainment, shopping, luxury homes, and an airport with flights to just about anywhere. You could do worse than being a millionaire in Dubai.

If you subscribe to the view that Thaksin is a contemptible, corrupt, person, then you also should acknowledge that the current PM tends to stoop, and get in the gutter when he engages in these little Thaksin jibes. This does nothing for his standing, or for outsider impressions of Thai leadership. The terms "petty" and"childish" come to mind.

My personal view is that Thaksin is just biding his time, engaging in a low level and not very intense campaign of staying on the edge of the fray and out of harms way. One day, the unspeakable event will happen in Thailand, and while that event is inevitable, what happens afterward is unpredictable in its "final outcome".

I will predict one thing. General Prayut will not remain in a position of substantial power. In a culture so influenced by considerations of "face", the General is proving to be a liability. Besides, I do not credit him with the cunning required; and I often wonder who is pulling his strings.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

I can't believe what a bunch of hypocrites the posters are here. They all bitch and whine about corruption and every time there are moves by the government against corruption they all bitch and whine about that too. What the hell do you want???

You might not like the way Prayut got into power but it needed to be done. He has done more against corruption than the last 30 years worth of governments.

Is it perfect? No, Can something like this be tackled and completed over night? Hell No!!

There are literally hundreds of cops that have been canned and their assets frozen. There are unprecedented moves against corruption but still you complain.

I know I can't stop your chronic complaining, but how about in addition to your complaints you offer a solution as to how the government (any government) could do more to stop corruption?

Should a fugitive be allowed to hold a high police rank???

Wake up and get real!!!

[speedtripler]

I can't believe what a bunch of hypocrites the posters are here. They all bitch and whine about corruption and every time there are moves by the government against corruption they all bitch and whine about that too. What the hell do you want???

You might not like the way Prayut got into power but it needed to be done. He has done more against corruption than the last 30 years worth of governments.

Is it perfect? No, Can something like this be tackled and completed over night? Hell No!!

There are literally hundreds of cops that have been canned and their assets frozen. There are unprecedented moves against corruption but still you complain.

I know I can't stop your chronic complaining, but how about in addition to your complaints you offer a solution as to how the government (any government) could do more to stop corruption?

Should a fugitive be allowed to hold a high police rank???

Wake up and get real!!!

Thaksin

Yingluck

Chalerm

Prayut

Abisit

Sunthep

Plodprasop

Somyot etc etc all have hundreds of millions or even billions tucked away

None of these people can talk about the end of corruption because they all have gotten Filthy rich from it

Honestly, we need someone new that hasn't risen up through the ranks via cronyism and graft.... Nobody on either side is trustworthy imo

[phoenixdoglover]

I can't believe what a bunch of hypocrites the posters are here. They all bitch and whine about corruption and every time there are moves by the government against corruption they all bitch and whine about that too. What the hell do you want???

You might not like the way Prayut got into power but it needed to be done. He has done more against corruption than the last 30 years worth of governments.

Is it perfect? No, Can something like this be tackled and completed over night? Hell No!!

There are literally hundreds of cops that have been canned and their assets frozen. There are unprecedented moves against corruption but still you complain.

I know I can't stop your chronic complaining, but how about in addition to your complaints you offer a solution as to how the government (any government) could do more to stop corruption?

Should a fugitive be allowed to hold a high police rank???

Wake up and get real!!!

Look up the definition of hypocrisy. I don't think it is the same as people complaining about everything. (Hypocrisy would be complaining about other people doing something that you do yourself)

Further, I would guess the average TV member complains about corruption in Thailand, and then complains when the measures taken to reduce corruption are selective, limited, and not reforms of the system. To that point, can you identify a systemic reform that has taken place?

As far as Thaksin and his police rank goes, I think you are missing the point as well. I don't see too many people saying he should not have the rank rescinded. I see people criticizing the way it was done (following a procedure, and then invoking article 44 all of a sudden), and the distraction it is from far more serious issues.

What's next, by the way, for the actions against Thaksin? Maybe the government should post "Wanted, Dead or Alive!" posters at all border crossings. This would be so meaningful.

[jesimps]

Thaksin being petulant as usual, his vanity knows no bounds, and his minions at Krungthai Bank have just received jail terms of 18 years.As the mastermind what can he expect ? More years of counting the grains of sand in the Dubai desert.

I imagine one could live happily ever after in Dubai with his resources. Doubt he's banished in the desert. Imagine how he could wind the General up if he really tried

Mr P doesn't need any help at getting wound up.

[Baerboxer]

There is no reason for a hate fest. Thaksin should be treated like any other citizen. He has jumped bail and faces imprisonment and warrants for numerous outstanding court cases. Either do something about it - or ignore him. But don't play silly spiteful tit for tat little games.

But of course they won't do anything meaningful, just like Red Bull boy will never appear in court, various murder and criminal cases will never be really solved and disappeared people will never be found. All to inconvenient and the masses might start realizing what those at the top are really like.

Successive governments have never reformed the police and judicial system so presumably things must work they way they like.

As for Thaksin - I'm sure his billions make him welcome in lots of places, and make him lots of "friends". But he won't come back to Thailand without his amnesty - too risky.

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

Ah the newbie springs to defend Thaksin the Innocent.

You must have believed his every word when he said he'd never ever done anything wrong, ever, in all his life, on CNN. That's why all those countries were so quick to defend him and call for his or his little sister's immediate return to power............... oh, but wait, not one single country did. Not even his eternal mate, the ex terrorist dictator next door.

All those corruption cases waiting in the courts, including the one where co-defendants just got 18 year sentences, must be just hate in his case. He's whiter than the driven snow, champion of the poor, gives huge amounts of his personal hard earned wealth away, paid of the IMF loan personally, and should probably have several noble prizes already. There, you can be happy in your fantasy world.

He's a corrupt egotistical power crazed maniac who is without any morals, ethics or concerns for any but his family. He is part of the rich elites that are ethnic Chinese and has inflicted countless damage on Thailand and the Thai people for his personal benefit.

You are right, he probably doesn't give a toss about the hatred because he has convinced himself that the people love him and adore his crooked family. That his rightful place is to be supreme leader and that he all those cases against him are lies are well not really that important at least. In short he's a nutter, a very rich, vindictive and dangerous nutter.

Now you can continue to believe he's the next Santa Claus, Mother Theresa and Mandela all rolled into one if you want. Or you can admit reality. He's as bent and morally bankrupt as the worst of them - Marcos, Mugabe, Hun Set etc - he's right up there with them.

[Baerboxer]

There most certainly is a need for a hate-fest and it's been systematically whipped up by the privileged and chattering classes in Thailand more or less ever since the Wat Phra Kaew beat-up. It's not an accident, nor is it naturally-occurring, it's been a deliberate strategy.

The only alternative to the hate campaign against Thaksin is to lay the blame for the massive problems Thailand, which are all self-created, has at the doors of the real authors of the misfortune - themselves and their godfathers.

In my opinion, the Thaksin-haters on TV are victims of a rudimentary opinion-shaping strategy by the privileged and chattering classes. Hook line and sinker. From a psychology perspective, there is a direct relationship between the effectiveness of poor propaganda (i.e. propaganda which relies mainly on telling the lie often enough without much more skill or science) and the IQ of the recipient. This is why the (USA designed and executed) propaganda campaigns in favour of the moneyed classes since the USA lost the Vietnam war have been so successful - a previous 3-4 decades of keeping the proletariat stupid, uneducated and poor, and it's why many people whose only obvious interests are cheap beer/women and occasional low-level chatter between themselves, fall victim to the same strategy. As the saying goes, "when you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds soon follow" and it's no secret that a certain category of foreigners are heavily influenced by the blandishments and opinions of a certain class of Thai woman.

So the hate campaign, albeit artificially generated beyond the point where people can actually remember what the substantive reasons were (if there were ever any) is both necessary to the feudal barons, and inevitable. For that reason, neither Thaksin himself (and I'm quite sure he doesn't give a flying Donald about it) nor anyone else should take the hatred seriously. Infra dignitatem.

You mention the "privileged and chattering classes" twice. In your opinion, is Thaksin Shinawatra the elitist, multibillionaire recipient of telecommunications monopolies in Thailand, grandson of Princess Jantip na Chiangmai a member of these "privileged and chattering classes"??

I love it when somebody who has hopelessly swallowed very silly propaganda rails against the notion of others swallowing propaganda LOL

Actually no he isn't and with respect your comments suggest you do not understand the class nuances involved.Thaksin certainly came from a prosperous Chinese/ Thai family but not from the very highest social circle. He was always seen as something of a "new" man by the Bangkok establishment even in the early days when he was quite popular with them.

Indeed there was and is a palpable distaste for Thaksin's nouveau riche persona.One could almost say a rather snobbish attitude.One often hears uninformed people arguing that Thaksin is part of the establishment.It's true only up to a point and a meaningless observation without many caveats.

Any switched on educated Thai knows the score on this - and this is one occasion when it really is difficult for most foreigners to understand the class nuances.

Good job you're waiting in the wings to correct everyone with your outstanding detailed knowledge of the Thai class nuances.

Not many posters with your detailed intricate knowledge. Must be good to be so fluent in Thai that educated Thais confide and discuss such things with you.

[Baerboxer]

Why is he scared of Thaksin?

Because he knows damm well that if it came to a choice, the Thai people would plump for Thaksin rather than him.

"Plump for Thaksin"?

No booty calls from the great lady suggests perhaps not.

Well, one day free choice will be available and then we'll all know. But that isn't the case today. Personally I think JAG had it right

When / if that day comes we won't know. Thaksin, as a convicted criminal fugitive won't be able to stand. Not sure how the other serious 15 or so outstanding criminal cases affect that.

He won't come back without a full amnesty, for everything ever. The Krungthai Bank case convictions with him being number 1 defendant show why he really ran.