Thai Immigration launches 'new' crackdown on visa runners

[Tomtomtom69]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

It's not too bad, actually. Just that it would probably be better if they could hand out a 2-year or 5-year visa rather than the current one year one. Even if there needed to be more money in the bank.

But then again I'm not in any way associated with Thai immigration or the government who debates and implements this kind of policy.

Similarly, for now, I don't care about retirement visas, I'm still decades away from that time. Well, if I even chose to live in Thailand then and if I did, I would hopefully already be a citizen.

[Tomtomtom69]

Although, in light of what I just read over on the article on AECnews linked to one of these threads, Phu Nam Ron is apparently not even stamping in legitimate visa holders? Hmm....well sorry, but I just can't keep up anymore. Every few hours the law changes again. I suspect though that in a few days or so, everything will be more or less back to normal, except that there might be some new guidelines, or rather enforcement of existing guidelines put into effect.

As a legitimate border crossing, Phu Nam Ron should be admitting all travellers with visas and visa-exempt ones who are not visa runners.

yeah, nope. they wouldn't let me out in Phu Nam Ron.

I never used the visa waiver 30 days that I could receive and only went to Phu Nam Ron once 2 months ago.

my visa was expiring on the 17th.. and I am going back home in 7 weeks or so.

my options were:

1. train/bus/minivan to Laos, or Malaysia (long drive, 35$ USD needed at border. etc)

2. quickly buying to fly out from Don Mueang on the cheap

3. extending my visa for 1900 baht in Hua Hin and then have to do something for the last 20 or so days.

I am flying out to Kuala Lumpur round trip for 3200 baht tomorrow morning, back at 2pm.

What type of visa do you have?

Did you arrive with a Myanmar visa in your passport? Obviously not.

Forget about Myanmar when going on a "visa run". It's a dead end, unless you hold a visa. Those one day or fourteen day stamps or whatever they give you depending on the border are only valid for local travel near the border crossing.

Still, thanks for the report and it's slightly disturbing to note that once again, Phu Nam Ron is not following the rules. A few months back it was the Myanmar authorities who apparently didn't want to do one day passes for foreigners. They only wanted to see proper visa holders who were continuing their journey inside the country.

[Puccini]

and what is a" visa runner"? there is no visa runner in my passport.!!! where is the legal definition of a visa runner in the Thai law?

could we stop to use this farang slang that means absolutely nothing at the end.?

what is a border run? run to border? , and what about a border walk?or a border swim through the meakong?

A visa runner would seem to be a person who does a visa run. I'd like to suggest that you ask the member who made the following posts about visa runs what a visa run is:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/819508-thai-elite-visa/?view=findpost&p=9375391

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/778081-experience-with-thai-elite-easy-access/?view=findpost&p=9147293

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/778081-experience-with-thai-elite-easy-access/?view=findpost&p=9121505

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/778081-experience-with-thai-elite-easy-access/?view=findpost&p=9107136

[Gulfsailor]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

When I first came here, many years ago, and under the age of 50, border runs were just a way of life if you wanted to be here for extended periods of time. Use to hop on the special border runs buses for the trip. Wasn't too expensive, met some very interesting people, and read a book or the news papers. The buses were quite comfortable. It may have been against the law, but it wasn't enforced. I'd mix it up with trips to neighboring countries. Great way to explore this part of the world.

I understand that, but especially back then and even now to some extent, it isn't too difficult to get say a non-B multi entry visa, at least from your home country or another western country. Back in the day, 15-20 years ago you could have probably received one just for owning a condo or for meeting friends, nowadays you or your boss writes a letter specifying the reasons why you need to come to Thailand. OK, so you only get 90 days on each stay but can come and go at will during a period of 1 year.

If married, a non-O multi entry does the same thing.

Tourist visas also allow longer stays and cut down on the amount of travelling required, and there are also 2 and 3 entry ones.

Incorrect, starting about 2 years ago most of the embassies will not issue a multiple entry non-B valid for 12 months. They will issue instead a 3 month single entry Non B. That can be extended at local immigration for 12 months. One of the main requirements for that is having a work permit.

So it's not like it used to be, i can tell you that much.

Unless you know of some loophole i've missed in which case please PM me

In western countries they will. In regional countries they won't.

In Australia, the USA, Europe etc. most Thai consular offices WILL issue them, but you need the right paperwork.

In SE Asia, only Penang will issue one, but then only with a valid work permit.

I only know about the Netherlands, but they stopped issuing multi entry Non-B around 3 years ago.

[lkv]

Netherlands and many others that I know of, including Hull UK. If any loopholes there advise so that we can queue up at the respective embassy.

[stickylies]

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Guy I met in satun went to langkawi every month. He loved doing it as he bought some boose and cigs too. Back in he got another 30 days. Never had issues with immigration but probably bought the occasional Black Label..... Satun is a nice place too btw although not suitable for pattaya-phuket-hua hin-samui-folks.

[Tomtomtom69]

All of this would not be a big issue for those of us, who actually live here on legitimate visas of some sort. However, it is disturbing to read that at some borders, they are refusing entry even to legal visa holders! It is probably only a short-term measure and I would like to remind readers that last year, just after the May 22 coup, there were reports of a temporary increase of restrictions at a number of land border crossings too. No idea why, but they happened and lasted for a few days or so.

From memory, one Thai/Cambodian checkpoint (Chong Chom) stopped allowing all vehicle crossings in either direction and no more border passes for locals. Passports only.

Other crossings were temporarily closed altogether.

Then, as I have mentioned before, the Phu Nam Ron crossing temporarily stopped allowing foreigners to take advantage of the one day in/out Myanmar visa on arrival. Only Myanmar visa holders were allowed in. However, that was apparently more of a Myanmar decision than a Thai one.

Of course there have also been plenty of stories from the Mae Sai crossing about not being allowed to exit.

[khwaibah]

All of this would not be a big issue for those of us, who actually live here on legitimate visas of some sort. However, it is disturbing to read that at some borders, they are refusing entry even to legal visa holders! It is probably only a short-term measure and I would like to remind readers that last year, just after the May 22 coup, there were reports of a temporary increase of restrictions at a number of land border crossings too. No idea why, but they happened and lasted for a few days or so.

From memory, one Thai/Cambodian checkpoint (Chong Chom) stopped allowing all vehicle crossings in either direction and no more border passes for locals. Passports only.

Other crossings were temporarily closed altogether.

Then, as I have mentioned before, the Phu Nam Ron crossing temporarily stopped allowing foreigners to take advantage of the one day in/out Myanmar visa on arrival. Only Myanmar visa holders were allowed in. However, that was apparently more of a Myanmar decision than a Thai one.

Of course there have also been plenty of stories from the Mae Sai crossing about not being allowed to exit.

Private cars and commercial has not been stopped at Chong Chom. Border passer were knocked off before this fascicle.

[Tomtomtom69]

All of this would not be a big issue for those of us, who actually live here on legitimate visas of some sort. However, it is disturbing to read that at some borders, they are refusing entry even to legal visa holders! It is probably only a short-term measure and I would like to remind readers that last year, just after the May 22 coup, there were reports of a temporary increase of restrictions at a number of land border crossings too. No idea why, but they happened and lasted for a few days or so.

From memory, one Thai/Cambodian checkpoint (Chong Chom) stopped allowing all vehicle crossings in either direction and no more border passes for locals. Passports only.

Other crossings were temporarily closed altogether.

Then, as I have mentioned before, the Phu Nam Ron crossing temporarily stopped allowing foreigners to take advantage of the one day in/out Myanmar visa on arrival. Only Myanmar visa holders were allowed in. However, that was apparently more of a Myanmar decision than a Thai one.

Of course there have also been plenty of stories from the Mae Sai crossing about not being allowed to exit.

Private cars and commercial has not been stopped at Chong Chom. Border passer were knocked off before this fascicle.

WERE stopped. I was talking about last year. You were the one who mentioned it, not me. You might want to check what you wrote back then.

[Jip99]

All of this would not be a big issue for those of us, who actually live here on legitimate visas of some sort. However, it is disturbing to read that at some borders, they are refusing entry even to legal visa holders! It is probably only a short-term measure and I would like to remind readers that last year, just after the May 22 coup, there were reports of a temporary increase of restrictions at a number of land border crossings too. No idea why, but they happened and lasted for a few days or so.

From memory, one Thai/Cambodian checkpoint (Chong Chom) stopped allowing all vehicle crossings in either direction and no more border passes for locals. Passports only.

Other crossings were temporarily closed altogether.

Then, as I have mentioned before, the Phu Nam Ron crossing temporarily stopped allowing foreigners to take advantage of the one day in/out Myanmar visa on arrival. Only Myanmar visa holders were allowed in. However, that was apparently more of a Myanmar decision than a Thai one.

Of course there have also been plenty of stories from the Mae Sai crossing about not being allowed to exit.

I recall that there was a mass exodus of Cambodians on the strength of a rumour (unfounded) that the General was going to clamp down on 'illegals'.

Hun Sen laid on scores of coaches at the border points to ferry Cambodians to the larger towns and cities.

It almost screwed the construction industry (and others) in Thailand.

[khwaibah]

All of this would not be a big issue for those of us, who actually live here on legitimate visas of some sort. However, it is disturbing to read that at some borders, they are refusing entry even to legal visa holders! It is probably only a short-term measure and I would like to remind readers that last year, just after the May 22 coup, there were reports of a temporary increase of restrictions at a number of land border crossings too. No idea why, but they happened and lasted for a few days or so.

From memory, one Thai/Cambodian checkpoint (Chong Chom) stopped allowing all vehicle crossings in either direction and no more border passes for locals. Passports only.

Other crossings were temporarily closed altogether.

Then, as I have mentioned before, the Phu Nam Ron crossing temporarily stopped allowing foreigners to take advantage of the one day in/out Myanmar visa on arrival. Only Myanmar visa holders were allowed in. However, that was apparently more of a Myanmar decision than a Thai one.

Of course there have also been plenty of stories from the Mae Sai crossing about not being allowed to exit.

Private cars and commercial has not been stopped at Chong Chom. Border passer were knocked off before this fascicle.

WERE stopped. I was talking about last year. You were the one who mentioned it, not me. You might want to check what you wrote back then.

Were not talking last year were talking this year and thats what this thread is about. Other poster reads comments such as posted and they can not separated the time frame and thank its still going on which it is not. Just saying.

[thai006]

in 2011 i make lot of visa run 15 day ; u think it will effect this year or they just care about the year now lot of non O visa

[BuckBee]

^ 2011 not going effect this year but you will need meet current full enforced rules for visa exempt entry. I personally would recommend getting a tourist as enables longer stay, no pre booked onward flight & generally less chance of hassle especially under current fiasco.

[thai006]

^ 2011 not going effect this year but you will need meet current full enforced rules for visa exempt entry. I personally would recommend getting a tourist as enables longer stay, no pre booked onward flight & generally less chance of hassle especially under current fiasco.

i come in thailand in june 2014 and got only 1 entry with 30 day in november 2014 and 30 day tourist extension and all the year i got non o visa and extension 60 day all time

[jacko45k]

And then perhaps Thailand will require all tourists from say the UK, to have visas, as the UK requires of them.

That would be reciprocation too.

Only thing is if Thailand ever did that, they could kiss their tourism industry, worth at least 10% of GDP and growing, goodbye. Just like Indonesia did some years ago, but more recently it re-introduced visa waivers to draw back tourists.

Everyone knows how tourism obsessed Thailand is and has been for decades. Virtually every single day one hears the mention of how this and that is, or may affect tourism. One can never separate tourism and Thailand from the same sentence.

The UK on the other hand is far less dependent on tourism than Thailand is. It's much more of a desirable place to immigrate to, so UK immigration law tries to ensure those that come will also return at the end of their stays.

Well actually they would only lose tourists from countries that oblige visas from Thai tourists, and that would not be 100% would it. Asean tourists, Russian tourists are available. My particular example would only reduce UK visitors, and not deter all of them, a simple Tourist Visa would be all that is required. So you are grossly exaggerating. That said, Thai nature is not one to turn away cash bearing visitors.

[bamukloy]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

Let me guess: you are over 50?

Sometimes it doesnt matter if over 50. I know of several guys who are always looking for ways to get visa.

I met many over 50 and also married, also younger married guys under 50 doing visa runs on double entry tourist visa.

Surely the immigration officer would ask them why they dont have marriage or retirement visa?

If you ask them yourself you will hear a bunch of excuses but everyone knows really.

If you dont have sufficient money to put 400k or 800k in Thai bank you shouldnt be elligable to be here long term simple as that

[PattayaClub]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

[PattayaClub]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

It may surprise you, but Thailand actually makes it fairly easy to become a citizen, but you are right, unlike other countries merely being a resident does not qualify you.

Thai authorities want you to be married to a Thai citizen and working for 3 years straight as a minimum on a non-immigrant visa extension of stay, earning at least 40,000 Baht per month and paying tax on that, with a valid work permit of course, to become eligible for citizenship. I'm not sure if they require fluent Thai skills or not because I know of at least one famous Thai citizen, who apparently speaks no more than 100 words of Thai. That person is none other than former American citizen Bill Heinecke, who runs one of Thailand (and Asia's) biggest food empires, Minor international.

However, he received his Thai citizenship decades ago so perhaps they have become stricter now in terms of eligibility criteria. Requiring Thai proficiency, especially in a country where it's hard enough for many foreigners to even convince the locals they can speak their language is reasonable enough though. On the other hand, it seems to me that gradually they have loosened the criteria a bit, because previously one needed to be a permanent resident for like 5? years before becoming eligible for Thai citizenship, now it's possible to skip PR altogether (which offers relatively few advantages anyway) and apply for Thai citizenship straight away after meeting the eligibility criteria outlined above, but of course only if you are married to a Thai.

As I said, forget PR because not only is the PR route only granted to those working here (just like those seeking Thai citizenship), as a PR you still remain a foreigner and I believe PR holders STILL require a work permit, despite attempts since at least 2008 by the Joint Chambers of Commerce to eliminate this requirement. PR status also does NOT allow one to own land. Only citizenship does. So in that sense what does PR entitle you to? Not all that much, apart from unrestricted residence. I think the criteria for company ownership is loosened, but that's about it. There may also be a few other advantages, but citizenship is far and away the best option and you can even keep your existing nationality(ies) too, which is another advantage.

So-called migrant workers (this terminology is actually flawed since they have no right of abode in Thailand - they should just be called expats like everyone else) from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia will never be eligible to become Thai citizens. This is because they don't earn enough and Thailand only wants rich, relatively successful people, preferably those married to it's citizens to become one of their own.

Retirees can never become Thai citizens, even if they are married to Thais, because they don't work. Thailand wants people working here before considering allowing them to become citizens.

Anyone who has ever spent any time in Thailand on any sort of non-O, non-B or tourist visa in the past, even if they previously held a PR but no longer do now, will find none of these will be taken into account when it comes to seeking PR again or citizenship. Only continunous, unbroken residence according to the above criteria is allowed.

You are incorrect about Heinecke. He has lived in Thailand since he was 14, and he reads, writes and speaks Thai fluently. He is also a billionaire. You must read and write Thai to become a citizen. But if one happens to be a billionaire, I am sure that requirement would disappear. If you have enough dough, you can get whatever you want here.

I am not a billionaire. I am just regular guy living on a regular retirement that lives here, pays taxes and contributes to his community. But I must get "permission" every year to stay another year, even though I have a family here. On top of that, I have to report every 90 days. Even registered sex offender do not have to report that often.

By the way, I came here as a volunteer to help Thai villagers (US Peace Corps). My reason for coming was altruistic. I met my wife and married her during my service and without knowing what was in store for me if I wanted to stay (she does not want to leave Thailand). I suppose I naively thought there would be a reasonable process to permanent residency. 555, joke on me.

You ask, what benefit does PR hold for me? Nothing except the comfort of knowing I am here permanently instead of year to year. That is everything to me. that is all I need. That small piece of security. It is not a lot to ask.

Your comment that "Thailand actually makes it fairly easy to become a citizen," doesn't pan out for anybody over 40, given the language fluency requirement. You could paper your walls with all the studies showing how language learning skills plunge after age 40. But you are right about one thing, if it was easy to become a citizen here, it would certainly surprise me, and I'd be on it like a duck on a junebug. What's the secret you are holding back?

[jpinx]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

The "deal" in Thailand is that you get a retirement extension on your visa which you renew every year. 90-day reporting is now online and relatively painless. What else do you want? PR does not allow you to own land, and only removes the need to renew your retirement extension and report at 90 days. If financing the requirements of the retirement visa is an problem then I respectfully suggest that the applicant is not really of any interest to Thailand or any other country. There is no country that recognises an over-arching "right" of a retiree to live in whatever country the mood takes him.

We know these details because of the up-close experience always reported in here. Comparing Thailand with the situation in "other" countries is a little bit dubious because unless there is the same volume of personal experience of the "small print" elsewhere, the comparison will be flawed. I Have lived for years in other countries and the rules might not be the same, but there are just as many tripwires, sometimes tax law, etc, so unless you actually have first hand detailed experience, I suggest that the rose-tinted glasses need to come off

[Soutpeel]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

Right so Panama thats 1....where else takes retiree's and secondly gives them PR / citizenship ?

Further just checked and retirees only get a residency visa in Panama if one purchases a property worth USD 200k or more and thats for everyone not just retirees, so even in Panama it seems they are not automatically given PR on the basis of retirement they are given PR on the basis of investmrnt

The retirees "worst" deal they get in Thailand is one of the few "deals" they do get LOL

How can it be the worst in the "world " when only a handful even let them in the door to retire ?, never mind the PR but.....

me thinks retiree doth protest too much...why should Thailand security for those who are neither PR or citizens ? .....if you want a security blanket and some to take care of you, stay at home then.....you made the choice to move to Thailand and one suspects you knew the process

[madpat]

Fair play to the Thai authorities for taking this step,if this was any western country we would all expect our governmeo the UK where it seems we have enough housing,enough medical facilities enough work and enough cash to take in loads of refugees who sadly are going to be mixed with terrorists using the same excuse

[SiSePuede419]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

You must be joking - do you know how difficult it is for Thai people to get a visa at all for countries in Europe or the States? You think Thai people can just show up at the border in the UK and come in for 30 days, then take a train to Paris and turn around and keep coming in, indefinitely? So you think it's madness to clamp down on this practice, eh?

Have you not learned anyting in your life . That statement is moronic and there is aways 1 dunderhead who will make it .Poor asians will go to a western country on a tourist visa and stay there for a better life . Poor westerners do not come to asia to make a better life. You can see the problems in europe now but i am sure you will not see those same immigrants /refugees coming to thailand or any other asian country where their life would not be better .

There is a world of difference from an asian going to uk with no money and becoming a burden on a state which has to look after them than a uk person coming to asia where they will get nothing from any government .

poor asians dont get tourist visas to western countries

Poor Westerns can't afford to travel to Asian countries.

[mgjackson69]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

Some people don't qualify for other visas or don't have the money for a retirement visa.

..and yes I do border runs...not for ever of course.

It is enticing when you live 60 kms from the border and it's a 'free' crossing as Malaysia charges no money for visas.

If they do not qualify or do not have the money then they have no right to be here.

[TheKnave]

The only way to end this madness is for immediate reciprocation from western nations to make the sons and daughters of the Thai elite start visa running - with clear doubts over their re-entry being cast. Once these little darlings have been forced to leave their luxury dwellings to flit off to Calais or other migrant infested hellholes with no real idea when or if they will be allowed to return, there will be an awakening.

How does that make any kind of sense?

1.It's not the case that children of wealthy Thais stay overseas without proper documentation and visas.Why should Thai young people be penalised for the mistakes and omissions of usually middle aged foreigners?

2.The Thai Immigration system is a liberal one, far more so than most Western countries.

3.The visa run system is and always was a breach of the spirit of Thai immigration rules.

4.The fact that non qualified foreigners can remain "resident" through visa running is symptomatic of the Thai system's flexibility and generosity.

5.It was always a risk that the authorities would clamp down on visa runners in the event of a major security crisis.

6.I hope that there will be a relaxation but it cannot be guaranteed nor can it be guaranteed that after any relaxation there will not be another clamp down in the future.

7.It is a relatively simple matter for qualified foreigners to obtain proper documentation.The cost is not excessive.

8.The reality is that many thousands fail to understand Thailand is not a suitable retirement destination for those who aren't reasonably well off.

9.The tolerance of the Thai authorities - even now - as regards visa running should be seen as a privilege not as a right.

Wrong on so many counts.

Just to address #1:

Go to almost any Thai restaurant in a big city in America, and you will find Thai 'students' waiting tables, working illegally, often for tips only. Illegal for employee and employer.

Best stick to something you actually know about.

You should pay attention.I was responding to a suggestion that Western countries should take revenge on the children of the Thai elite for the perceived indignities imposed here on foreign visa runners.

Children of the Thai elite do not need to cut corners on visas when they travel.

This has nothing to do with the kind of working class/middle class Thai youngster working for tips in overseas restaurants.

You don't address any of the other points so your arguments have no value.

The 'other points' are so patently moronic as to defy refutation. Clearly elitist value judgements, based on nothing more than YOUR prejudices about what is liberal, what was the 'spirit of the law' (were you part of the drafting process? Or did you obviously pull it out of your clogged fundament?), generosity, etc.

Seems you think you have the right to pass on who can and cannot afford to live in Thailand, too. Very impressive, you are a legend in your own mind...

Like I said, better stick to something you know.

[PattayaClub]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

The "deal" in Thailand is that you get a retirement extension on your visa which you renew every year. 90-day reporting is now online and relatively painless. What else do you want? PR does not allow you to own land, and only removes the need to renew your retirement extension and report at 90 days. If financing the requirements of the retirement visa is an problem then I respectfully suggest that the applicant is not really of any interest to Thailand or any other country. There is no country that recognises an over-arching "right" of a retiree to live in whatever country the mood takes him.

We know these details because of the up-close experience always reported in here. Comparing Thailand with the situation in "other" countries is a little bit dubious because unless there is the same volume of personal experience of the "small print" elsewhere, the comparison will be flawed. I Have lived for years in other countries and the rules might not be the same, but there are just as many tripwires, sometimes tax law, etc, so unless you actually have first hand detailed experience, I suggest that the rose-tinted glasses need to come off

I wish you luck with you painless online 90 day reporting . . . you obviously haven't tried it lately.

[jpinx]

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

The "deal" in Thailand is that you get a retirement extension on your visa which you renew every year. 90-day reporting is now online and relatively painless. What else do you want? PR does not allow you to own land, and only removes the need to renew your retirement extension and report at 90 days. If financing the requirements of the retirement visa is an problem then I respectfully suggest that the applicant is not really of any interest to Thailand or any other country. There is no country that recognises an over-arching "right" of a retiree to live in whatever country the mood takes him.

We know these details because of the up-close experience always reported in here. Comparing Thailand with the situation in "other" countries is a little bit dubious because unless there is the same volume of personal experience of the "small print" elsewhere, the comparison will be flawed. I Have lived for years in other countries and the rules might not be the same, but there are just as many tripwires, sometimes tax law, etc, so unless you actually have first hand detailed experience, I suggest that the rose-tinted glasses need to come off

I wish you luck with you painless online 90 day reporting . . . you obviously haven't tried it lately.

There have been plenty of indications that it works. It's early in the implementation and inevitably there will be teething hiccups. The reports in here are naturally failures -- not many folks will report success. There is also the option of postal reporting, or using an agent, depending on the policy applied by individual Immigration offices.

Such a small price to pay for "living the dream" makes one wonder if there are other issues which cause as much pain.

[Soutpeel]

I am completely legal and always have been. But I have the distinct feeling that I am not really wanted/welcome here; only tolerated. More friendly countries allow their expats ownership of a small plot of land and house, and allow permanent residency for retirees that meet certain financial soundness tests. None of that here. I am married to a wonderful Thai woman and have made my life here, but having brought all my marbles in with no avenue to permanent residency, leaves me with a feeling of insecurity I can't shake.

I understand there is permanent residency, but it requires three years of continuous work with a work permit and I ama retired, so that is not an option. I can speak Thai, but am simply too old to learn to read and write it, so citizenship isn't going to happen either. I guess it is just the way it is. If I had it to do all again, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

Name me the counties that gives legal right of abode to retiree's ie PR ? there are not many.....

further go and look and see how many countries even let expats in on the basis of retirement a handful

And once you review all the terms / condtions and finanical requirements come back and tell me the deal retirees get in Thailand is so bad

If I were to do it again, I'd go to Panama. If you can show retirement income of $1,200US or more, you can get automatic permanent residency. Most people thee speak English. Spanish is a bout 100 times easier to speak than Thai. Spanish and English use the same alphabet.

The deal retirees get in Thailand is one of the worst in the world. Thee are places that are worse, but who would want to live there anyway? Would you want to live in Syria or Zimbabwe? I didn't think so. The thing that makes Thailand such a nice place to live is the climate and the people. I find the people to be mostly very friendly. I am not offended by the "double pricing" that upsets so many farang. I am only troubled by the very unfriendly and xenophobic immigration laws.

They provide no security for those expats living here.

The "deal" in Thailand is that you get a retirement extension on your visa which you renew every year. 90-day reporting is now online and relatively painless. What else do you want? PR does not allow you to own land, and only removes the need to renew your retirement extension and report at 90 days. If financing the requirements of the retirement visa is an problem then I respectfully suggest that the applicant is not really of any interest to Thailand or any other country. There is no country that recognises an over-arching "right" of a retiree to live in whatever country the mood takes him.

We know these details because of the up-close experience always reported in here. Comparing Thailand with the situation in "other" countries is a little bit dubious because unless there is the same volume of personal experience of the "small print" elsewhere, the comparison will be flawed. I Have lived for years in other countries and the rules might not be the same, but there are just as many tripwires, sometimes tax law, etc, so unless you actually have first hand detailed experience, I suggest that the rose-tinted glasses need to come off

I wish you luck with you painless online 90 day reporting . . . you obviously haven't tried it lately.

Just done it last week in the immigration office all of a whole 5 minutes out of my busy schedule

[Fat Haggis]

I wish you luck with you painless online 90 day reporting . . . you obviously haven't tried it lately.

Just done it last week in the immigration office all of a whole 5 minutes out of my busy schedule

Then it wasn't the online nightmare then was it?

[Heng]

What amazes me is that there actually foreigners living in Thailand on visa exempts only.

Who in their right mind could be bothered having to go to a border every 30 days to stamp in and out. That is no life.

Does anyone know anybody who actually does this?

I don't get why anyone would.

A trip to your local immigration office every 90 days VS a visa run every month???

seems like a no brainer to me

I've known a lot of people like that. To each their own. I can't believe there are endless people out there who take out loans, carry credit card debt, and mortgages and make lenders wealthier in 'their' sleep.

[Straight8]

This only affects those who go out/in every 15 or 30 days (depending on their nationality).

If you have a valid tourist visa, retirement visa, non-o, non-b etc etc then you are fine.

It's basically Immigration trying to stamp out those who abuse the visa-exempt system.

If you are legit, you have nothing to worry about!

Edit to add - doing out/in border hops on visa exempt every month has always been against the rules. It seems that just now, Immigration are being forced to apply the rules.

Why is it against the rules? So what if yu want to extend your stay. You are in the country spending money. I would ask where is the logic here but.... The LOS is where logic goes to die.

hmmm... looks like you haven't been on TV all that long??