Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[phil2407]

Give them lie detector test - even though can be beaten- don't think in this case would happen - DNA evidence nothing as alledgely nothing on Hoe and DNA that arrested them on the rape "alledgely" - non left to test - either used up or can no longer have - <deleted> joke!!!!!

[IslandLover]

Clarification ie Muang Muang from a post a couple above

Aung Soe, a Burmese embassy official who interviewed the friend of the accused, Muang Muang, when he was finally released from police custody, said he complained of similar beatings and kickings: “He described one interrogation session, where he was made to sit on the floor with his legs crossed and his hands on his knees and then they stamped on his hands.”

The Burmese embassy sent Muang Muang back to Myanmar. He has not testified at the trial. The prosecution told the court that they did not know where he was now. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/court_hears_of_police_brutality_as_hannah_witheridge_s_family_returns_to_thailand_1_4247106

I am a stuck record. Where is Maung Maung NOW? Do they defence know if he is alive?

I can't be sure but Islandlover said he made a radio interview from Burma and if the Embassy sent him back then I'm sure the defense team know where he is.

The same as they also know where the very first person to find the bodies is, the female beach cleaner who is alive and well in Burma.

It was Eirene who located the actual interview but I do remember reading a transcript of it at some point.

Edited September 25, 2015 by IslandLover

[BritTim]

Yes, call me suspicious but a lack of transparency is always associated with something to hide...

We can all agree that transparency hasn't been the best word to describe this trial.

If the case was so rock solid, the prosecution would provide everything asked by the defense, wouldn't it?

To name just a few :

> the chain of custody and all the documents concerning the supposed damning DNA evidence have been requested for month, the refusal has prevented an renowned expert to give a testimony

> the pictures of the scene and of the autopsy that couldn't be printed for... lack of budget (they supposedly made hundreds of costly DNA tests but can't find a few hundreds of baht to print), they refused to provide them on CD either

> Hannah's clothes that are nowhere to be found

> only part of the CCTV footage has been used, the rest is not available and was seen as not relevant

I would go even further that that, it seems totally wrong that they actually are not FORCED to do so by the judges.

How can people not have any doubt about the culpability of the B2?

They are facing the death penalty for god's sake, even a slight chance of them being innocent is supposed to be enough to find them not-guilty, and there is more than a slight chance of that...

I guess the truth will eventualy come out, they are probably counting on time to make people forget about this case, it may be the way it works in Thailand (the news is hot for a few days, but there is usually no followup) but globally nowadays it is different and I have a strong feeling that people are not ready to give up and just forget about this case.

I think at this point the key question is not "is there a reasonable doubt as to the Burmese kids' guilt", it is

Is there a reasonable doubt as to whether the RTP has deliberately tried to frame them?

Frankly, I am not sure there is.

[oldsailor35]

I most probably have missed this. But did the defense call the original Police Investigator to question him why he was taking a completely different direction with his investigation, an investigation which never included the Burmese boys, but others on the island. And why was he suspended from his investigation and replaced.

[Fat Haggis]

Give them lie detector test - even though can be beaten- don't think in this case would happen - DNA evidence nothing as alledgely nothing on Hoe and DNA that arrested them on the rape "alledgely" - non left to test - either used up or can no longer have - <deleted> joke!!!!!

Yeah but what about giving the B2 a lie detector test too

[onionluke]

at least three to one and fighting back, how many onlookers to scared to intervine ? where are the witnesses , silence,such contempt and refusal to assist the investigation, its the local team i say, unvle mon has to be questioned, i say he altered the crime scene , he has blood on his hands one way or another

[Luang]

Get on twitter and start asking a few questions of the British FCO (Hugo Swire). Why did they convince the families the TP had it right when it's blatantly obvious to a toddler they haven't. Furthermore, why were those family statements released before the trial (FCO encouraged for sure)?! Very unethical to say the least. In bed with the devil if you ask me.

[JoopJoop]

I most probably have missed this. But did the defense call the original Police Investigator to question him why he was taking a completely different direction with his investigation, an investigation which never included the Burmese boys, but others on the island. And why was he suspended from his investigation and replaced.

I've asked twice also Sailor but I'm thinking its doubtful. I'd be highly surprised if he did disclose fully even if called before the court.

It seems he would be the only one that could offer insight as a representative of the RTP.

He was requested to maintain silence by the higher echelon of his corrupt, incompetent, lazy, uneducated force.

Forgive me....that was a little libel.

[RolandRat]

Yes, call me suspicious but a lack of transparency is always associated with something to hide...

We can all agree that transparency hasn't been the best word to describe this trial.

If the case was so rock solid, the prosecution would provide everything asked by the defense, wouldn't it?

To name just a few :

> the chain of custody and all the documents concerning the supposed damning DNA evidence have been requested for month, the refusal has prevented an renowned expert to give a testimony

> the pictures of the scene and of the autopsy that couldn't be printed for... lack of budget (they supposedly made hundreds of costly DNA tests but can't find a few hundreds of baht to print), they refused to provide them on CD either

> Hannah's clothes that are nowhere to be found

> only part of the CCTV footage has been used, the rest is not available and was seen as not relevant

I would go even further that that, it seems totally wrong that they actually are not FORCED to do so by the judges.

How can people not have any doubt about the culpability of the B2?

They are facing the death penalty for god's sake, even a slight chance of them being innocent is supposed to be enough to find them not-guilty, and there is more than a slight chance of that...

I guess the truth will eventualy come out, they are probably counting on time to make people forget about this case, it may be the way it works in Thailand (the news is hot for a few days, but there is usually no followup) but globally nowadays it is different and I have a strong feeling that people are not ready to give up and just forget about this case.

I think at this point the key question is not "is there a reasonable doubt as to the Burmese kids' guilt", it is

Is there a reasonable doubt as to whether the RTP has deliberately tried to frame them?

Frankly, I am not sure there is.

Along comes an incident that they are totally unprepared for, not really trained for such an event, and basically panic. Procedures and basic steps were not taken, the lackadaisical "that'll do" attitude generally adopted back-up with "I'm in charge here" that usually works for the local guys just didnt and wouldnt cut it when it became a world stage event.

Then you have the archaic "save face" comes into play to try and recover the embarrassment and ineptitude over the way it was handled. "find answers", be "seen to be doing" and yet another panic to look as though you know what you are doing and "be seen" to be making progress as the world turns its eyes on Thailand.

The whole damn affair, as sorry as it is, and my most sincere sympathies lie with the families of this tragic event, but in all honesty, its such a mess, that the truth will probably never ever be known as vital evidence has been lost/destroyed by incompetence and covered with a layer of "save face".

One can only speculate as to what "deals" and agreements have been reached as to what is or isnt allowed to be admissible in evidence and what the outcome will finally be. Its not even beyond the realms of credibility that what is eventually announced, will in fact be, what really happened, or what really is going to happen as a result of the court case, yet more smoke and mirrors.

The thing is, and this is undeniable, a great tragedy occurred, two young people lost their lives. The "truth" unfortunately died with them in my opinion.

Everything else is just speculation and supposition.

As for the "experts" and others doing and being involved "pro-bono", nothing in life is FREE, they may not be charging for there services but the exposure and Media coverage of this incident will more than compensate them for their contribution both now and in the future.As they saying goes, any publicity is "good" publicity and they will get there monies worth no doubt.

Happy for those they need to represent that they can get such representation without financial hardship, don't misunderstand me, but lets be realistic.

People will probably ponder and argue over this for years, but sadly as I said, the truth is already long gone......IMHO

Edited September 25, 2015 by RolandRat

[BeautifulPain]

Agreed upon the posts about the experts.

Another point I find interesting is the pedigree and credentials of the experts who have/will testify for the defence, now I know experts will sometimes testify in murder cases and such the defence when the defendant appears guilty. However is a case of this magnitude I don't believe these experts would testify on such a horrific case if they didn't believe what they were saying was the truth.

They would have a lot to lose if they were acting as " guns for hire " often in cases like this where experts offer testimony it's because they see they can make a difference due to their highly respected opinions.

Edited September 25, 2015 by BeautifulPain

[Luang]

Yes, call me suspicious but a lack of transparency is always associated with something to hide...

We can all agree that transparency hasn't been the best word to describe this trial.

If the case was so rock solid, the prosecution would provide everything asked by the defense, wouldn't it?

To name just a few :

> the chain of custody and all the documents concerning the supposed damning DNA evidence have been requested for month, the refusal has prevented an renowned expert to give a testimony

> the pictures of the scene and of the autopsy that couldn't be printed for... lack of budget (they supposedly made hundreds of costly DNA tests but can't find a few hundreds of baht to print), they refused to provide them on CD either

> Hannah's clothes that are nowhere to be found

> only part of the CCTV footage has been used, the rest is not available and was seen as not relevant

I would go even further that that, it seems totally wrong that they actually are not FORCED to do so by the judges.

How can people not have any doubt about the culpability of the B2?

They are facing the death penalty for god's sake, even a slight chance of them being innocent is supposed to be enough to find them not-guilty, and there is more than a slight chance of that...

I guess the truth will eventualy come out, they are probably counting on time to make people forget about this case, it may be the way it works in Thailand (the news is hot for a few days, but there is usually no followup) but globally nowadays it is different and I have a strong feeling that people are not ready to give up and just forget about this case.

I think at this point the key question is not "is there a reasonable doubt as to the Burmese kids' guilt", it is

Is there a reasonable doubt as to whether the RTP has deliberately tried to frame them?

Frankly, I am not sure there is.

Along comes an incident that they are totally unprepared for, not really trained for such an event, and basically panic. Procedures and basic steps were not taken, the lackadaisical "that'll do" attitude generally adopted back-up with "I'm in charge here" that usually works for the local guys just didnt and wouldnt cut it when it became a world stage event.

Then you have the archaic "save face" comes into play to try and recover the embarrassment and ineptitude over the way it was handled. "find answers", be "seen to be doing" and yet another panic to look as though you know what you are doing and "be seen" to be making progress as the world turns its eyes on Thailand.

The whole damn affair, as sorry as it is, and my most sincere sympathies lie with the families of this tragic event, but in all honesty, its such a mess, that the truth will probably never ever be known as vital evidence has been lost/destroyed by incompetence and covered with a layer of "save face".

One can only speculate as to what "deals" and agreements have been reached as to what is or isnt allowed to be admissible in evidence and what the outcome will finally be. Its not even beyond the realms of credibility that what is eventually announced, will in fact be, what really happened, or what really is going to happen as a result of the court case, yet more smoke and mirrors.

The thing is, and this is undeniable, a great tragedy occurred, two young people lost their lives. The "truth" unfortunately died with them in my opinion.

Everything else is just speculation and supposition.

As for the "experts" and others doing and being involved "pro-bono", nothing in life is FREE, they may not be charging for there services but the exposure and Media coverage of this incident will more than compensate them for their contribution both now and in the future.As they saying goes, any publicity is "good" publicity and they will get there monies worth no doubt.

Happy for those they need to represent that they can get such representation without financial hardship, don't misunderstand me, but lets be realistic.

People will probably ponder and argue over this for years, but sadly as I said, the truth is already long gone......IMHO

There's one truth though that is plain to see, barring those with ulterior motives, and that is that the very people who are supposed to protect from harm have made sure that justice in this case will not be served. However, we shouldn't be at all surprised, the TP are nothing but and have never been anything but a security firm for the rich and influential, sadly.

I realised I couldn't stomach the moral void existent in the country a while ago.

[catsanddogs]

As many people no doubt do, I feel increasingly sad and frustrated for the families of Hannah and David. They will have to return to Thailand for a third time in October if they wish to the defence finish. This investigation and court case should have been one of the components necessary for a smidgen of closure for the families, but no doubt it has damaged them further and caused them more pain than any of us could possibly imagine. I would like to make a plea to the friends of Hannah and David (if any of them read these threads) to do what is necessary if you have pertinent information and not to prolong the near impossible beginning of the healing journey for Hannah and David's family.

[evadgib]

Get on twitter and start asking a few questions of the British FCO (Hugo Swire). Why did they convince the families the TP had it right when it's blatantly obvious to a toddler they haven't. Furthermore, why were those family statements released before the trial (FCO encouraged for sure)?! Very unethical to say the least. In bed with the devil if you ask me.

What could possibly be gained from such utter drivel?

Edited September 25, 2015 by evadgib

[Luang]

As many people no doubt do, I feel increasingly sad and frustrated for the families of Hannah and David. They will have to return to Thailand for a third time in October if they wish to the defence finish. This investigation and court case should have been one of the components necessary for a smidgen of closure for the families, but no doubt it has damaged them further and caused them more pain than any of us could possibly imagine. I would like to make a plea to the friends of Hannah and David (if any of them read these threads) to do what is necessary if you have pertinent information and not to prolong the near impossible beginning of the healing journey for Hannah and David's family.

That's commendable and MOST of us want to see justice. Unfortunately, until justice and morality become important to those Thais in authority, it's unlikely to happen.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Luang

[Luang]

Get on twitter and start asking a few questions of the British FCO (Hugo Swire). Why did they convince the families the TP had it right when it's blatantly obvious to a toddler they haven't. Furthermore, why were those family statements released before the trial (FCO encouraged for sure)?! Very unethical to say the least. In bed with the devil if you ask me.

What could possibly be gained from such utter drivel?

Do go on....

[smedly]

I justgot in and I am looking at 149 email notifications to this thread which I believe will be mostly 99% of people talking sense and 4 people talking nonesense, so I am not going to read any of it, I don't need to, good night all 555

[Luang]

I justgot in and I am looking at 149 email notifications to this thread which I believe will be mostly 99% of people talking sense and 4 people talking nonesense, so I am not going to read any of it, I don't need to, good night all 555

Only two e's in that smedly

[AleG]

What is the significance of the yellow/blue arrows in the 'gait' photos, given most haven't seen the accused walking without chains or entourage & therefore are unable to understand the comparison?

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

[catsanddogs]

What is the significance of the yellow/blue arrows in the 'gait' photos, given most haven't seen the accused walking without chains or entourage & therefore are unable to understand the comparison?

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

Hi everyone. Just a few paras below from the link. I'd never heard of gait analysis before this trial and from what I have read and continue to read, it seems quite an amazing technological breakthough. It would seem timely - now the defence does not return to court until 10th November - for the Royal Thai Police to splash the cash and put forward all those who were suspects throughout the investigation for gait analysis. What have they got to lose?

Gait analysis has attracted attention because of the shortcomings of other biometric security techniques. Iris scans and face recognition require reasonably high-quality images, for example. They also generally require a cooperative subject, as do fingerprints. By contrast, a person’s gait can be recognised from low-quality CCTV footage.

In one leading technique, known as the gait energy image, computer vision techniques use video images of a person to create a blurred silhouette that is characteristic of their gait. A human operator links this gait “signature” to a person’s identity, allowing the system to automatically spot that person when they are next caught on film.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528835-600-cameras-know-you-by-your-walk/

[007cableguy]

What is the significance of the yellow/blue arrows in the 'gait' photos, given most haven't seen the accused walking without chains or entourage & therefore are unable to understand the comparison?

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

After seeing a lot of your previous posts I wouldn't take anything you say as creditable!....You and I and the majority of other posters are not experts in criminal case's! And you are no expert!... Stick to diving matters!

[AleG]

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

Hi everyone. Just a few paras below from the link. I'd never heard of gait analysis before this trial and from what I have read and continue to read, it seems quite an amazing technological breakthough. It would seem timely - now the defence does not return to court until 10th November - for the Royal Thai Police to splash the cash and put forward all those who were suspects throughout the investigation for gait analysis. What have they got to lose?

Gait analysis has attracted attention because of the shortcomings of other biometric security techniques. Iris scans and face recognition require reasonably high-quality images, for example. They also generally require a cooperative subject, as do fingerprints. By contrast, a person’s gait can be recognised from low-quality CCTV footage.

In one leading technique, known as the gait energy image, computer vision techniques use video images of a person to create a blurred silhouette that is characteristic of their gait. A human operator links this gait “signature” to a person’s identity, allowing the system to automatically spot that person when they are next caught on film.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528835-600-cameras-know-you-by-your-walk/

An article about theoretical applications including things like using an array of 24 cameras to capture the motion of a person walking on a treadmill or using a Kinect 3D scanner to separate the subject from the background and gain depth perception or using an unspecified gait energy technique, I don't recall seen any 7/11 with that kind of surveilance gear. In any case no mention of the drawing arrows on the screen method.

Now, reading all the way to the bottom:

"Hofmann cautions against thinking gait recognition will ever rival fingerprints for accuracy. Accuracy rates can plummet if a person walks more rapidly than normal, for example."

Now let's see what I said before on the subject: "Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run"

[dundee48]

What is the significance of the yellow/blue arrows in the 'gait' photos, given most haven't seen the accused walking without chains or entourage & therefore are unable to understand the comparison?

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

Wasn`t it you who pointed it out before?

[boomerangutang]

It's time now for the media to call a meeting with the PM.

I believe it is time for the PM to call a meeting with RTP to find out exactly why he was lied too and decieved and start knocking a few heads

I don't think the self-appointed PM needs to ask the RTP why he was lied to. They're in the same bateaux. You kiss my ass, I'll kiss yours.

[fritzzz25]

I found the entire RTP report published in softcover format.

[boomerangutang]

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

Hi everyone. Just a few paras below from the link. I'd never heard of gait analysis before this trial and from what I have read and continue to read, it seems quite an amazing technological breakthough. It would seem timely - now the defence does not return to court until 10th November - for the Royal Thai Police to splash the cash and put forward all those who were suspects throughout the investigation for gait analysis. What have they got to lose?

Gait analysis has attracted attention because of the shortcomings of other biometric security techniques. Iris scans and face recognition require reasonably high-quality images, for example. They also generally require a cooperative subject, as do fingerprints. By contrast, a person’s gait can be recognised from low-quality CCTV footage.

In one leading technique, known as the gait energy image, computer vision techniques use video images of a person to create a blurred silhouette that is characteristic of their gait. A human operator links this gait “signature” to a person’s identity, allowing the system to automatically spot that person when they are next caught on film.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528835-600-cameras-know-you-by-your-walk/

An article about theoretical applications including things like using an array of 24 cameras to capture the motion of a person walking on a treadmill or using a Kinect 3D scanner to separate the subject from the background and gain depth perception or using an unspecified gait energy technique, I don't recall seen any 7/11 with that kind of surveilance gear. In any case no mention of the drawing arrows on the screen method.

Now, reading all the way to the bottom:

"Hofmann cautions against thinking gait recognition will ever rival fingerprints for accuracy. Accuracy rates can plummet if a person walks more rapidly than normal, for example."

Now let's see what I said before on the subject: "Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run"

I've said this before and will say it again: detectives should reenact the scenario which brought forth the 'Running Man' videos. I could set up a more realistic re-creation than any Thai gov't person investigator or cop. I would film it at the same location, using the same camera, and (as much as possible) same lighting. I would have ALL 'persons of interest' involved, not just B2, but also the original prime suspects. It's impossible for RTP to re-create that scenario for several reasons:

>>> they're sworn to protect the Headman's people from any further scrutiny

>>> they are incapable of doing things scientifically/objectively. Because they are Thai, they are genetically programmed to do everything subjectively with constant consideration of who everyone represents (status/money/connections).

>>> the Headman wouldn't allow his dear son to be looked at again in this case.

>>> Mon wouldn't comply.

It's indicative of nearly all RTP has done and not done in the past year. Despicable.

[StealthEnergiser]

The yellow lines are the direction the feet are pointing at, the blue the overall direction of motion.

The problem is that it's plain to see that both on the second and fourth still frames the left feet (which are planted on the ground) and arrow are not pointing in the same direction; in any case making accurate measurements out of short, low quality footage like that is quite impossible and the validity of that technique to positively identify people is questionable.

That is why, as someone pointed out before, it's not a recommended method for identification.

Hi everyone. Just a few paras below from the link. I'd never heard of gait analysis before this trial and from what I have read and continue to read, it seems quite an amazing technological breakthough. It would seem timely - now the defence does not return to court until 10th November - for the Royal Thai Police to splash the cash and put forward all those who were suspects throughout the investigation for gait analysis. What have they got to lose?

Gait analysis has attracted attention because of the shortcomings of other biometric security techniques. Iris scans and face recognition require reasonably high-quality images, for example. They also generally require a cooperative subject, as do fingerprints. By contrast, a person’s gait can be recognised from low-quality CCTV footage.

In one leading technique, known as the gait energy image, computer vision techniques use video images of a person to create a blurred silhouette that is characteristic of their gait. A human operator links this gait “signature” to a person’s identity, allowing the system to automatically spot that person when they are next caught on film.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528835-600-cameras-know-you-by-your-walk/

An article about theoretical applications including things like using an array of 24 cameras to capture the motion of a person walking on a treadmill or using a Kinect 3D scanner to separate the subject from the background and gain depth perception or using an unspecified gait energy technique, I don't recall seen any 7/11 with that kind of surveilance gear. In any case no mention of the drawing arrows on the screen method.

Now, reading all the way to the bottom:

"Hofmann cautions against thinking gait recognition will ever rival fingerprints for accuracy. Accuracy rates can plummet if a person walks more rapidly than normal, for example."

Now let's see what I said before on the subject: "Fantastic work... comparing a walk on flip flops with a barefoot run"

I've said this before and will say it again: detectives should reenact the scenario which brought forth the 'Running Man' videos. I could set up a more realistic re-creation than any Thai gov't person investigator or cop. I would film it at the same location, using the same camera, and (as much as possible) same lighting. I would have ALL 'persons of interest' involved, not just B2, but also the original prime suspects. It's impossible for RTP to re-create that scenario for several reasons:

>>> they're sworn to protect the Headman's people from any further scrutiny

>>> they are incapable of doing things scientifically/objectively. Because they are Thai, they are genetically programmed to do everything subjectively with constant consideration of who everyone represents (status/money/connections).

>>> the Headman wouldn't allow his dear son to be looked at again in this case.

>>> Mon wouldn't comply.

It's indicative of nearly all RTP has done and not done in the past year. Despicable.

That's what we hope for find the truth of who the running man is It was mentioned CSILA yesterday that they are looking at getting tests done of other people using gait technology.

Number 9 is the other person that hasn't been identified let's hope that this is acknowledged and honest strong team is set up by the PM to do a proper investigation .

The headmans son certainly needs to be checked again because it's ok for people to say he was in bangkok the police ruled him out,

Well sorry how can we believe the police who made that report someone has to be accountable for this debacle .

[StealthEnergiser]

Defense Lawyers Granted More Time in Koh Tao Murder Case

KOH SAMUI – Lawyers for Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, accused of killing two British tourists in Thailand were on Friday granted more time to organize their defense, which could put back a verdict that had been expected next month, one of the lawyers said.

Representatives of the Burmese Embassy in Thailand have described a culture of police brutality and torture on the Thai island of Koh Tao, where backpackers Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, both in their 20s, were found on the southern holiday island of Koh Tao last year.

Aung Soe, a Burmese Embassy attache, told the court he had interviewed a friend of the accused, Mao Mao, who was on the same beach as them, and the victims, in the early hours of the morning of September 15th 2014.

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/defense-lawyers-granted-more-time-in-koh-tao-murder-case.html

[StealthEnergiser]

[cookee68]

I'm not sure it is solely the embalming that would have destroyed any possible crucial evidence, I believe there's another process that "cleans" the body that also destroys tissue matter and DNA such as semen.

The point this is turning to here is that the RTP investigation and autopsy results support their investigation and there's now no way to disprove this, due to the process and missing/missplaced or whatever, whilst the UK Coroners report is refuting the Thai results by stating there's conflicting accounts, no evidence of rape.

AleG is now going on about Lesions, and the lack of, and is once again calling the findings of a Government official suspect....why?

I'm sorry but this is NOT someone who is simply interested in the truth, you simply do not go to these lengths of dismissing expert opinions when you're a simple Joe Bloggs off the street. Every single locked thread and banning has all had a single common denominator, it do any take much to know who, it's this that I just don't get.

Every single open minded person here has at one stage come into conflict with This member, he makes outlandish claims, I don't want this thread locked anymore than anyone else who has been keeping tabs on this, but it seems pretty obvious there is a concerted effort to get these threads closed down, effectively cutting off the flow of information. Why is this allowed to constantly happen?

What does this poster know, that despite the prosecution being ripped to shreds, and the conduct of the investigation and those who carried it out, he has not once thought " I have my doubts ?"

I had my doubts about the B2 early on, but I know about Koh Taos more shady side, and the shady people there, and the more press releases the RTP put out it convinced me then that a travesty of justice was unfolding and that lies and spin on the RTP were spiralling out of their own control, I had a very open mind. Not now.

This is a trial they thought would never happen, and like many other high profile incidents it would disappear, for all the sceptics here who doubt the RTPs case was solid, add several thousand average Thais who have followed this on various social media platforms.

Very well said and it is probably the way most of us here feel.

Considering everything we have seen in this trial, it is close to impossible to at least not have a doubt about the B2 guiltiness, and I don't need to remind they are facing the death penalty, so a doubt is all that is needed to release them, or at least IT SHOULD, that is what is called justice...

Let's do everything we can to avoid the thread being closed again, share information and just ignore those who have different agenda, don't react or just react with facts to contradict their mistakes or spins efficiently.

Try to add value...

The worse thing is that if the judge has already made his mind up, regardless of the evidence, we all say this is the law and this should happen, and that should happen, well in a contry with a proper law we would all know the result, but after all this is Thailand, and they don,t care what is said after they make a cock up

[Lite Beer]

Lawyers of Koh Tao murder accused given more time
THE NATION

MYANMAR EMBASSY CLAIMS WITNESS WAS FORCED TO IMPLICATE DUO AFTER KILLINGS OF BRITISH PAIR ON TOURIST ISLAND

THE LAWYERS for two migrant workers from Myanmar accused of killing two British tourists on Koh Tao were yesterday granted more time to prepare their defence.

"There will be an extension," chief defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat said outside the court.

He told reporters the court had made the concession after his team had appealed for more time to show the defendants were being made scapegoats.

His team has been putting up the defence in the case of a high-profile double murder on Koh Tao. The battered bodies of two Britons were found on the island off Surat Thani last year. Post-mortem examination showed the female victim was also raped.

The appalling crimes have made headlines not just in Thailand but also overseas.

After weeks of investigation, police arrested Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun for the crimes. Despite their initial confession, the defendants have later insisted that they were coerced into admitting to the crimes.

A Myanmar Embassy official yesterday told the Koh Samui Provincial Court that a worker from Myanmar was forced into accusing the two defendants.

"Mao Mao told me that he was repeatedly kicked in his chest. He said [Thai] officials demanded that he speak the way they wanted or become a defendant himself," Aung Suu from the Myanmar Embassy in Bangkok said.

Police have used Mao Mao's words against the two defendants.

Inside the courtroom, Aung Suu also disclosed that he came to Koh Tao after the crime took place to talk to Myanmar people there.

"They all appeared frightened of the police. I was told police physically assaulted the Myanmar people during the interrogation," Aung Suu said.

He also said the Myanmar government and the Myanmar Embassy would not officially recognise the type of interpreter used by Thai police in this case.

The interpreter has Bengali ethnic origin while the defendants are of Rakhine ethnicity. The Bengali and Rakhine groups have had a history of conflict.

A Myanmar man, who teaches the Burmese language at Ramkhamhaeng University, also showed up as a witness yesterday. He too said the Bengalis and the Rakhine had had conflicts for more than 70 years already.

Being a member of the Office of the Royal Society here, he also said there was a risk of discrepancies in the interpretation services because while the interpreter might use the official Burmese language, his choice of words could still be influenced by his Bengali background.

The trial of the two Myanmar men has been mired in controversy, with their lawyers complaining of a patchy police investigation, marred by disputed forensics, a contaminated crime scene and selective use of surveillance video to implicate the accused.

Police have denied mistreating the Myanmar men and have stood by their investigation. Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-o-cha has said "nobody would dare" go after the wrong suspects because the case was so high-profile.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-of-Koh-Tao-murder-accused-given-more-time-30269581.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-26