PM Prayuth to decide on tough new penalties for foreigners who overstay

[BritTim]

I have known few people who I know for a fact are long-term overstayers. I have one friend who I am sure twice overstayed by more than three years. He suffered from bipolar disorder, and had long periods where he was unable to motivate himself to do anything. During his first long overstay, he spent (on average) about US$5,000 a month (all savings from overseas). On his second overstay, he was not as wealthy as previously but still spent about $1,500 a month. In spite of his bipolar disorder, he was under the radar and did not cause the immigration department to launch a witch hunt against every other foreigner who might be here on overstay.

Lol, when I was spending 5k/month I didn't have much motivation to work either, it's not the bipolar that causes that, it's the alcohol, there are medicines for that.

Because of the medication he was on, he needed to abstain from alcohol. You are correct, though, that alcohol is very commonly the main or a contributory cause of depression and motivation issues.

[PoorSucker]

Doubt it happens if it didn't last year, it's the same proposal. They'd have to change the 1971 immigration act.

Afaik, there are two ways these changes can be introduced:

• Amendment of the 1971 Immigration Act
• A section 44 order under the interim constitution

The second, which is much easier, must be issued by the Prime Minister.

No need to change anything in Immigration Act, B.E. 2522

Section 16 : In the instance where for reason of national welfare or safeguarding the public peace ,

culture , morality , or welfare , or when the Minister considers it improper to allow any alien or any group

of alien to enter into the Kingdom , the Minister shall have power to exclude said alien or group aliens

from entering into the Kingdom.

[FritsSikkink]

there are many pepole that are overstaying there visa's but spend tons of Money in the country.

what do Thailand loose if somebody overtstay? NOTHING..

time to make it easier for those under 50 years to stay here longer without much hassle. ed visa to much bla bla bla

they are breaking the law and haven't got a pot to piss on

[dhream]

One thing they've proposed that i agree with.

I'd like to see all those assorted 'exotic' dealer/pimps and their ho's rounded up en-masse and processed.

Any foreigner 'living off their wits' (a.k.a shills on the street) needs to be thoroughly vetted as a matter of course.

[Stan7444]

I recently applied for my Retirement Visa annual renewal at Changwattana facility, but due to my fault, was just one day late and paid the 500 fine. Then they reminded me that the prior year I was 3 days late, this due to my Embassy being on holiday for one of these days and had to make an on line appointment (US) which all of their appointment slots were completely filled up days in advance to get my notarized income statement prior to going to Immigration. This year they warned me if I am an overstay even by one day next year, I will be invited to remove myself from Thailand for a period. I cannot find in any Thai Immigration website or otherwise information to back up this warning as received. Therefore, it is only meant to scare me or it is really the truth. Does anyone else know more about this issue?

[anotheruser]

Dennis

You still seem to think the fact you are well off entitles you to break the rules at your convenience. You admitted this in an earlier post. If you are that rich then pony up for the elite visa. You belittle people that come on a nickel and dime yet you admit you will break immigration laws to save a nickel and a dime. It comes across as hypocritical to say the least.

At least if you are yourself breaking the law then don't throw stones from your glass house. If you believe your own BS you should then be deported and banned for the things you do. You have basically asserted you are above the law because you have money. Evidently not enough money to buy an elite visa though.

Yes I break the rules at my convenience.

No I won't waste money on a Thai Elite visa if there are other ways to accomplish my goals.

I never said I'm rich, what is rich actually? Is 5000 euro/month income rich in Thailand, if so then yes I'm rich as I make more than that.

I've known poorer times as well so I consider 400 euro/mo for Thai Elite quite a lot of money (based on living here only 6 months a year that is).

Just because I have some money doesn't mean I should waste it on stuff I don't need.

Evidentely? Does that involve the word evidence?

Listen, I used to rent a house here for 50k baht/month, that's at times that I made more then I do now, eg used to make 10k+ euro/mo, what I do, I cancelled the house, not cause I can't afford it anymore but I like to save money, I'm still relatively young so I have a long time to go and as I'm involved in a fast changing industry (internet marketing) I can't say I will make the same money in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years from now. Makes sense right? So why waste money on stuff I don't really need. I rather have a few more beers and bitches instead

I personally interpretate rich as either having a few million dollar in the bank or having more than enough to spend each month, well I don't have a few million dollars yet though that is my goal so if I earn less I adjust my lifestyle by spending less so that I can keep saving. I'm far from western retiree age so long time to go still, who knows what happens.

So at this point I consider the Thai Elite visa a HUGE waste of money.

That previous post was focused towards someone that talks about entrepreneurship while complaining about the visa rules, you ever heard me complaining? If I decide to stay here 12 months a year I guess I must buy this Elite visa so I will and you won't hear me nagging about it.

I have other things to complain about Thailand but that's completely irrelevant to this sub forum, and that's why I think about changing from non stop living here to 50/50, eg miss real friends and such, life feels fake here at times.

It could be said you are the sort of Cheap Charlie Thailand doesn't need then. Anybody with a pot to piss in can afford the elite card.

[dhream]

there are many pepole that are overstaying there visa's but spend tons of Money in the country.

what do Thailand loose if somebody overtstay? NOTHING..

time to make it easier for those under 50 years to stay here longer without much hassle. ed visa to much bla bla bla

they are breaking the law and haven't got a pot to piss on

Agreed with Frits, and if they are rich young 'digital nomads' we don't want them here acting like overpaid and therefore self-entitled jerks all over town, we have enough locals and tourist w-anchors doing that as it is. When you have lived your life, keep your nose clean, and earned the stripes, and provided you don't kill yourself before 50, then by all means.

Invitation by natural selection, sounds fair to me.

[GarryP]

Probably been mentioned earlier but too many pages to read, Immigration is really cracking down at the moment. Backhander deals for extensions are off the table at the moment. Many of the visa agents who depend on the Indian and African community (among a few others) for their living are feeling the pinch at the moment.

[dhream]

Dennis

You still seem to think the fact you are well off entitles you to break the rules at your convenience. You admitted this in an earlier post. If you are that rich then pony up for the elite visa. You belittle people that come on a nickel and dime yet you admit you will break immigration laws to save a nickel and a dime. It comes across as hypocritical to say the least.

At least if you are yourself breaking the law then don't throw stones from your glass house. If you believe your own BS you should then be deported and banned for the things you do. You have basically asserted you are above the law because you have money. Evidently not enough money to buy an elite visa though.

Yes I break the rules at my convenience.

No I won't waste money on a Thai Elite visa if there are other ways to accomplish my goals.

I never said I'm rich, what is rich actually? Is 5000 euro/month income rich in Thailand, if so then yes I'm rich as I make more than that.

I've known poorer times as well so I consider 400 euro/mo for Thai Elite quite a lot of money (based on living here only 6 months a year that is).

Just because I have some money doesn't mean I should waste it on stuff I don't need.

Evidentely? Does that involve the word evidence?

Listen, I used to rent a house here for 50k baht/month, that's at times that I made more then I do now, eg used to make 10k+ euro/mo, what I do, I cancelled the house, not cause I can't afford it anymore but I like to save money, I'm still relatively young so I have a long time to go and as I'm involved in a fast changing industry (internet marketing) I can't say I will make the same money in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years from now. Makes sense right? So why waste money on stuff I don't really need. I rather have a few more beers and bitches instead

I personally interpretate rich as either having a few million dollar in the bank or having more than enough to spend each month, well I don't have a few million dollars yet though that is my goal so if I earn less I adjust my lifestyle by spending less so that I can keep saving. I'm far from western retiree age so long time to go still, who knows what happens.

So at this point I consider the Thai Elite visa a HUGE waste of money.

That previous post was focused towards someone that talks about entrepreneurship while complaining about the visa rules, you ever heard me complaining? If I decide to stay here 12 months a year I guess I must buy this Elite visa so I will and you won't hear me nagging about it.

I have other things to complain about Thailand but that's completely irrelevant to this sub forum, and that's why I think about changing from non stop living here to 50/50, eg miss real friends and such, life feels fake here at times.

It could be said you are the sort of Cheap Charlie Thailand doesn't need then. Anybody with a pot to piss in can afford the elite card.

The Elite card is a joke. If you can afford it, you don't need it!

[anotheruser]

Dennis

You still seem to think the fact you are well off entitles you to break the rules at your convenience. You admitted this in an earlier post. If you are that rich then pony up for the elite visa. You belittle people that come on a nickel and dime yet you admit you will break immigration laws to save a nickel and a dime. It comes across as hypocritical to say the least.

At least if you are yourself breaking the law then don't throw stones from your glass house. If you believe your own BS you should then be deported and banned for the things you do. You have basically asserted you are above the law because you have money. Evidently not enough money to buy an elite visa though.

Yes I break the rules at my convenience.

No I won't waste money on a Thai Elite visa if there are other ways to accomplish my goals.

I never said I'm rich, what is rich actually? Is 5000 euro/month income rich in Thailand, if so then yes I'm rich as I make more than that.

I've known poorer times as well so I consider 400 euro/mo for Thai Elite quite a lot of money (based on living here only 6 months a year that is).

Just because I have some money doesn't mean I should waste it on stuff I don't need.

Evidentely? Does that involve the word evidence?

Listen, I used to rent a house here for 50k baht/month, that's at times that I made more then I do now, eg used to make 10k+ euro/mo, what I do, I cancelled the house, not cause I can't afford it anymore but I like to save money, I'm still relatively young so I have a long time to go and as I'm involved in a fast changing industry (internet marketing) I can't say I will make the same money in 1, 2, 5 or 10 years from now. Makes sense right? So why waste money on stuff I don't really need. I rather have a few more beers and bitches instead

I personally interpretate rich as either having a few million dollar in the bank or having more than enough to spend each month, well I don't have a few million dollars yet though that is my goal so if I earn less I adjust my lifestyle by spending less so that I can keep saving. I'm far from western retiree age so long time to go still, who knows what happens.

So at this point I consider the Thai Elite visa a HUGE waste of money.

That previous post was focused towards someone that talks about entrepreneurship while complaining about the visa rules, you ever heard me complaining? If I decide to stay here 12 months a year I guess I must buy this Elite visa so I will and you won't hear me nagging about it.

I have other things to complain about Thailand but that's completely irrelevant to this sub forum, and that's why I think about changing from non stop living here to 50/50, eg miss real friends and such, life feels fake here at times.

It could be said you are the sort of Cheap Charlie Thailand doesn't need then. Anybody with a pot to piss in can afford the elite card.

The Elite card is a joke. If you can afford it, you don't need it!

You could be missing the real point of my post. You have to put it in context why I said this to this particular poster.

[thailanddogerator]

Does anybody knows at what time and on which channel I can watch the show ? The more I read these news the more I think these clowns are funny <3

[dhream]

I am not an overstayer and have never been one, however this type of incident happens all over the world and not just Thailand. The positive side is that those overstayers are contributing to the economy and at this moment in time Thailand as many farangs as possible as it is there money that feeds and supports many local economies without them the country would suffer a lot more, surely there is a better solution than banning an overstayer from coming back to the Kingdom. I was always of the impression that Thailand wanted to attract visitors not deter them !

I think that most chronic, long-term overstayers are contributing very little to the Thai economy. Anyway, that's what I've seen to be true.

Overstayers are seldom innocent victims, and very likely to be criminal or fugitive in more ways than just overstaying. The rules are clear, either address the requirements, or <deleted>.

Edited October 26, 2015 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[dennis123]

The Elite card is a joke. If you can afford it, you don't need it!

You could say that yes, I need to get a visa now that my ED is expired and I go for a few weeks on holiday to Cambodia, can't really call that a border runner. Then I can stay Thailand for 3 months again and then after I might go to Macau or the Phillipines for a month. The tighter the visa rules become the more I get to see from the world as I'm a bit of a lazy traveller otherwise.

[AGareth2]

if you are a westerner

in order to care for your family

you could always

get a job

[Travelman868]

Hmmm there are a number of reasons a person over stay's in a country and not all are simply people trying one on.

So in case of illness or accident as often happens and still have the 20,000 baht fine, now they want to have a bigger crack,

Welcome too LOS..............

I my self just forgot my 90 day check in, normally on the calendar but this time no'p, paid the fine all good,

If your ill and in the hospital the admin people liase with immigration, so no overstay and no fine. And if your ill and not in hospital, why not.

Forgot is no excuse.

[max72]

I think they are reasonable, except for the people who are caught overstaying 1 day and they are treated as people caught overstayed 10 years: 5 years ban. For 1 day overstay it's too much. Insane.

[JAG]

Most of you on here can't even pop wood anymore so I'm a 2nd lieutenant in the army of the USA and have fought for my country for 22 years and we give millions of dollars to Thailand plus all the old tanks,all guns,air craft,destroyers,and every other kind of ship we make plus not all the money will give every month in renewing our stinking visas. So gen. What do you want us to do for you more hmmm.

You have the money to give but wont and the whole world knows this the only one that doesn't know I think is you. I love this country, children are Thai/American and what would you have me do leave them fatherless just because I didn't get a visa renewed

You are a joke

I cry bulls hit! A Second Lieutenant for 22 years?

You really should have been promoted to Lieutenant by now!

[somo]

Can't see a problem for 99% of farang unless you get into trouble for something else.

In 20 years I have never been asked to show I have a current visa (other than when I am extending it) so can't imagine many being caught unless they start random inspections on the street which won't go down too well with your average tourists. This is a big non event for most of us and I assume is aimed at illegal workers from neighbouring countries.

[Artisi]

Good, many ppl overstay thinking its fine...I will never get caught etc...GET RID

Why is the army general now controling immigration ? Did anyone thing that ?

Simply because he is now PM - any more stupid questions you would like cleared up?

[Soutpeel]

Can't see a problem for 99% of farang unless you get into trouble for something else.

In 20 years I have never been asked to show I have a current visa (other than when I am extending it) so can't imagine many being caught unless they start random inspections on the street which won't go down too well with your average tourists. This is a big non event for most of us and I assume is aimed at illegal workers from neighbouring countries.

If it goes through its aimed at anyone who overstays, do you think the whiteys on here think they are going to get exemption....? Edited October 26, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Prbkk]

To the grumpier and more right-leaning members posting here regularly, I'd just like to say -

....I overstayed a YEAR last year, and it ROCKED!

I did have a good reason for doing so, however - I was feeling really sentimental, was totally skint, and had decided to. And also, I'd had the realization that my thoughts about Thailand were immeasurably cooler than most of the people I saw posting here. So, I figured it was ok because I was different, and...it was !!!

All of this was made more complicated, of course, by the fact that I was totally broke most of the time. That's because at 50 years old, I've hardly ever had a job in life. But then again, I have so much talent, that I've managed to coast through wild adventures by being invited all over the world by institutions and theaters. Without any exaggeration, I'm usually paid to smoke weed and make intersting observations about the world, because people call me a genius all the time. Really. OH!...and I smoked a HECK of a lotta' weed, in Bangkok, also. ANYWAY...

I hadn't planned at all, and came back to Bangkok for the one-thousandth time, and when Prayuth (may his authority be short) took over, I just decided I didn't feel like jumping through all the hoops he was demanding (the hoops that old, crabby boring guys have to, I mean), so...what happened, is the landlord of my building let me get away with going MONTHS AT A TIME, in trust. It certainly wasn't the policy at the luxury building, I can tell you that. BUT, I was considered more special by the Thai people who knew me, somehow. And, the staff at my building, took care of me. Each night they invited to have BBQ with them, and insisting on buying the whiskey each night, because they loved me, and they knew I loved them so. They wouldn't do that for most of you, is the thing. And, at the end, all the women in the building (god BLESS them) even got together and brought me several new suits to wear, as I kept touring the world. They loved me, is what I'm saying. They probably wouldn't love most of you grumpy old guys, that way - and, you wouldn't deserve them to, either. You're a cash cow, in return for the rotten and reeking souls your carry around, imposing onto Thailand. Me, they felt I was different, and told me so. And for that, I'll just say, I consider you failures in life, you angry old men who post your right wing nonsense here each day. You're unable to see how small your views are, compared to the country you're in. And, you never will.

One thing I definitely did NOT do, was work illegally in Thailand though. I honestly felt that would be wrong (plus boring). SO...I just lived from people sending me money, over facebook. I can't explain exactly how that happened, I certainly never told lies or cheated anyone - lots of people just started writing that they didn't want me to give up, and to be ok, so many people from around the world, just started sending money each month. Really! So, I spent the year basically walking around, thinking, and being supported for that. And, finally, a whole bunch of theaters and producers around the world got together; paid immigration, paid all the rent I'd owed, and arranged for me to go flying around the world again, smoking pot and having fun. I think I'll roll one up right now in Glasgow, actually.

Now...over the last 6 months, I've done just that: toured all over the world again, doing crazy performances people on this forum wouldn't be able to understand, smoking weed, getting paid for it, and getting compliments for all of it. I tell this story to audiences, and they cheer.

AND...all the people from my building in Bangkok (not the stuffy, jealous Brititsh ones, of course...I mean the cool people, like the landlord, the manager and the people who work there) still write everyday to say they miss me. And, I dearly miss them too. Now I've met the sweetest girl half my age from Russia, and we're getting married. I dont' have to pay her for this, of course - I'm not an old Britsh guy in Thailand, you understand. It's that I'm called a genius all over the world, and that makes a huge difference in what comes to a person in life. Plus, my soul is actually alive, unlike many of yours. I met this wonderful girl when I had free rent in a beautiful neighborhood of Amsterdam the other month. She wrote that she'd been looking for me, beacause of my art, and is running away from Russia to find me in Germany soon, and wants to travel with me from now on. I had to choose between that, and running off with a beautiful professor from Tokyo. So, I made the choice based on which decision would be the most beneficial to another, and I chose the Russian girl.

So anyway, this is just to say - to the people talking about how you wish things to be harsher on others all the time here - I just want you to know: it's YOUR fault that you have such boring, angry lives YOU'RE the ones who are average, and who don't understand the possibiltiies of adventure that you squandered. I know: many of you here consider having moved your fat butts somewhere else once, and then say there drinking beer to be 'exciting'. But to me, it's child's play. You're still slaves to paperwork, and the boring ideals driled into you by your parents. You complain, because you're angry at yourselves, in the end. You hope everyone to suffer from the same lack of imagination and life that you do. And, guess what...NO THANKS!

LONG LIVE THAILAND! And may the poor one day rise up, and kick ALL you empiralists out on your asses, as you deserve!

I like your post. Being borderline eccentric is insufficient entertainment these days so it's comforting when someone who is just plain crazy gets online

[somo]

Can't see a problem for 99% of farang unless you get into trouble for something else.

In 20 years I have never been asked to show I have a current visa (other than when I am extending it) so can't imagine many being caught unless they start random inspections on the street which won't go down too well with your average tourists. This is a big non event for most of us and I assume is aimed at illegal workers from neighbouring countries.

If it goes through its aimed at anyone who overstays, do the whiteys on here think they are going to get exemption....?

No exemption but unless they start unpopular random checks that will damage tourism very few will get caught.

[metisdead]

I recently applied for my Retirement Visa annual renewal at Changwattana facility, but due to my fault, was just one day late and paid the 500 fine. Then they reminded me that the prior year I was 3 days late, this due to my Embassy being on holiday for one of these days and had to make an on line appointment (US) which all of their appointment slots were completely filled up days in advance to get my notarized income statement prior to going to Immigration. This year they warned me if I am an overstay even by one day next year, I will be invited to remove myself from Thailand for a period. I cannot find in any Thai Immigration website or otherwise information to back up this warning as received. Therefore, it is only meant to scare me or it is really the truth. Does anyone else know more about this issue?

You can renew your Retirement Extension as much as 45 days early at Chaengwattana, why put it off until the last minute? Renewing it early does not change the date it expires on.

[optad]

Staggering the number of posters who use two sets of standards evaluating issues when it comes to Thailand. No country tolerates visa abuse, and immigration violation, why should it be different for Los. And why is the sense of entitlement by foreigners so pervasive? I suspect a relaxed and hospitable approach for a very long period of time, is part of the problem.

[EU comparison are disingenuous].

[Lampang2]

I recently applied for my Retirement Visa annual renewal at Changwattana facility, but due to my fault, was just one day late and paid the 500 fine. Then they reminded me that the prior year I was 3 days late, this due to my Embassy being on holiday for one of these days and had to make an on line appointment (US) which all of their appointment slots were completely filled up days in advance to get my notarized income statement prior to going to Immigration. This year they warned me if I am an overstay even by one day next year, I will be invited to remove myself from Thailand for a period. I cannot find in any Thai Immigration website or otherwise information to back up this warning as received. Therefore, it is only meant to scare me or it is really the truth. Does anyone else know more about this issue?

The issue of not being in time?

[OMGImInPattaya]

heads up: chaeng wattana queues are extraordinarily long.

word on the street is that the head of Immigration got 'replaced' after the bombing.

the new guy is tightening things all down the chain of command. officers are assigned 'quotas'. that is... they must show rejections increase a certain number or % and so are looking at every single document for anything... misspellings etc.

Misspellings of what...ones farang name transliterated into Thai on the TM7 forms?

[billd766]

Overstaying a visa is a pretty minor thing compared to overthrowing a government. Just sayin....

Absolutely.

BTW can you tell me how many farangs were actually involved with overthrowing the government?

My best guess is none, zero, zilch.

But if you know more than me then just say so.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I have found immigration pretty reasonable if they think you were not out to abuse the system

being an old fool, I got my days mixed up and showed up at the airport,,, 1 day overstay

immigration could not have beem nicer

the officer looking at my passport called over the supervisor and assured me no big problem

the supervisor came over signed something and I was on my way,,, no fine or anything

have the feeling the overstays they are after are the ones with blatent dissregard for Thailand immigration laws

My understanding is that the first day of overstay isn't charged but that on the second day the fine is 400 baht (the first day's fine is included) and continuing onward. At least this is how it was in the past but maybe it's changed now. I do know that once my entry expired the day before and I had a flight out at like 06:00 the next morning and I wasn't charged anything but this was several years ago.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Hmmm there are a number of reasons a person over stay's in a country and not all are simply people trying one on.

So in case of illness or accident as often happens and still have the 20,000 baht fine, now they want to have a bigger crack,

Welcome too LOS..............

I my self just forgot my 90 day check in, normally on the calendar but this time no'p, paid the fine all good,

if you sick you can get an extention, so no reason

Everyone keeps saying this.. But I know for a fact its not that simple..

Yes if you are actually in a private western type hospital, they can usually arrange a medical extension (often only a few days) while your an inpatient.. However they cant help when discharged and immigration doesnt give a shit about any 'doctors notes' I know I had one..

I recently broke some bones.. operations.. plates pins and the usual.. I was discharged but was in no fit state to travel. At that point immigration would accept nothing. Despite me being in agony, with rods and pins sticking out of me.. I should just get on the bus and head to the border (I doubt any airline would have let me fly in that state) to walk across the friendship bridge on a broken leg ??

The only time you seem to be able to get a medical extension is while as an inpatient at the hospital.. There are times you are unable to travel but are not also an inpatient.

I have seen the same with a patient who had a multi day hospital stay.. get discharged and the next day come to immigration with all his pospital paperwork asking for just a 7 day extension.. No go to the border pay your fine.. No discussion, simply officer discretion not given.

Those constantly saying how easy it is.. maybe should try it some time..

WRONG! I had emergency surgery and then was laid up at home for a couple months and had an entry expiry coming up and I was able to get two 30 day extensions from Pattaya immigration for medical reasons no problem. All that was necessary was a note in Thai from my hospital attending physician stating my condition and that I was unfit to fly. There must other reasons they wanted to see the back of you.

[boomerangutang]

It's similar to Thailand's laws on drugs: They follow other countries and are influenced by directives from US's DEA. Some of the drug laws seem reasonable, yet others are draconian. For example: having, growing or dealing hemp can land a person in jail on the same level as involvement with much harder drugs (note: hemp isn't even a drug, yet having a smidgen in your pocket makes you a criminal). Of course there needs to be regulations (with drugs and with visas), but design the rules and fees to fit the people they're aimed at. And make the rules which best benefit Thailand. Some illegal drugs don't harm anyone, and few over-stayers harm anyone.

It's also like TAT which acts in an elitist vacuum. Hello Thailand, don't be afraid of foreigners. Find out what makes us tick, and what's best for the Thai people. Then go from there. It's easy to proclaim edicts that get harsher month by month. Instead, visa laws should be fair and win-win for everyone involved. Instead of instant fines and/or expulsion for wrongdoers, there should be a warning, followed by fines if the culprit doesn't comply in a timely manner (two weeks?). Similar for drug 'mules.' They should be chastised and fined a moderate amount, instead of slapped in jail for decades or (as Indonesia does) snuffed out.