EU plans tougher gun rules

[webfact]

EU plans tougher gun rules



BRUSSELS: -- EU officials on Wednesday unveiled plans that they say will make it more difficult to buy firearms in Europe.

It follows talks between governments on Monday after the deadly attacks in Paris.

The European Commission wants to better track legally held firearms and draft common minimum standards for deactivated guns.

It say that loopholes and different national legislation amongst EU members can be exploited allowing for decommission weapons to be re-activated.

Experts say acquiring weapons is straightforward, especially inside the EU’s passport-free Schengen zone.

“After the Yugoslav war lots of guns remained in the habds of private citizens,” said Nils Duquet, a researcher at the Flemish Peace Institute.

“The guns get smuggled in very small quantities into the Schengen zone and once it’s passed the exterior border it’s very easy for these guns to circulate from one criminal gang in one country to another in another country.”

Unsurprisingly, the European Commission says Schengen is not up for debate.

The travel area is named after the town in Luxembourg where the accord was signed in 1985.

“We don’t intend to open a discussion on Schengen’s future.
It is up to France to decide whether under the current situation the external borders are in need of more protection,” said Dimitris Avramopoulos, the EU commissioner for migration and home affairs, referring to the French government’s decision to introduce temporary checks.

Some member states have put up fences to stem the flow of migrants travelling to northern Europe from the Balkans.

The idea of an open Europe seems to be very much at risk.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-19

[overherebc]

Long time ago in UK it was very easy to get a licence. Now very difficult, but, as it will be in Europe with new gun laws no matter how strict; the people who want guns for terrorist reasons will get guns.

No laws will ever prevent it happening.

Where there is a demand there will be a supply.

[BuaBS]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

[jaidam]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

It's worse than that. Europeans are forbidden by law from recognizing and naming the threat to their families. Why have a gun, when you are not even allowed to speak about the very clear threat?

[Expat1]

Just brilliant. Bureaucrat politicians answer. If we can't protect our citizenry then let's make it more difficult for our citizens to protect themselves. Criminals can ALWAYS get guns. Morons. Hey, something must be done and this is something, let's do it, the politician's kneejerk reaction to posture for the media. Heaven forbid you take time and think through a proper solution. If there would have been more guns available to the good citizens a lot less would have got hurt in Paris. Ok, don't take the US example take the Swiss example. Most all Swiss (not all but many, as the rules there change occasionally) are required to have an assault rifle with rounds in their home. It is sealed in plastic but, it is still there. If there is a problem the Swiss would have used them if necessary. Paris would never happen in Zurich. Ok, the Swiss have always had this arrangement and mindset and it may not work for other Euros but denuding the citizen further of their ability to protect themselves is no solution either.

[onni4me]

will make it more difficult to buy firearms in Europe.

Legally, that is.

EU starts to remind me more and more of Soviet Union. In socialist countries it was upmost important to take the guns off from people...and we all know why.

When your own governments start to turn against you, how you are going to straighten that situation up?

Now they are after semiautomatic weapons meaning that shotguns and hunting riffles would be only a shot or two at the time. Great to make honest people's lives difficult.

For a terrorists or criminals it makes no difference whatsoever. They don't buy legal weapons. The ones used in Paris attacks were put together from illegal parts smuggled into the country.

Good riddance EU! I never wanted you but I will see the day you fall as all socialist experiments.

[h90]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

It's worse than that. Europeans are forbidden by law from recognizing and naming the threat to their families. Why have a gun, when you are not even allowed to speak about the very clear threat?

If you shoot a murder and rapist that enters your house and he is disabled....you have to pay all your life

So the cynical recommendation is: to shoot him dead, pump the complete magazine into him, continue firing after the magazine is empty till the police comes. Than he is dead and you can claim you were under shock.

That is no joke....this is what police and layer recommends you if you ask in private.

You are also forbidden to discredit religion.....There were 2 cases of people had to pay for discredit the religion of peace in the news. One only took a part of the holy book and told that it is not compatible with modern laws.

So Europe is a political correct joke.....The Islamist might be right when they tell we are degenerate......If you protect the offender and punish the defender than you really lost something..

[Steely Dan]

The EU must be worried as it sees signs of European citizens trying to protect themselves, as is demonstrated by soaring gun sales in Sweden of all places.

[Humberstone]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

It's worse than that. Europeans are forbidden by law from recognizing and naming the threat to their families. Why have a gun, when you are not even allowed to speak about the very clear threat?

If you shoot a murder and rapist that enters your house and he is disabled....you have to pay all your life

So the cynical recommendation is: to shoot him dead, pump the complete magazine into him, continue firing after the magazine is empty till the police comes. Than he is dead and you can claim you were under shock.

That is no joke....this is what police and layer recommends you if you ask in private.

You are also forbidden to discredit religion.....There were 2 cases of people had to pay for discredit the religion of peace in the news. One only took a part of the holy book and told that it is not compatible with modern laws.

So Europe is a political correct joke.....The Islamist might be right when they tell we are degenerate......If you protect the offender and punish the defender than you really lost something..

Laws regarding defending your property vary all over the EU.

The problem with the first example is that it is often very easy for the police to determine whether you killed someone deliberately rather than acting in self defence due to ballistics, blood splatter etc. Also, I very much doubt that a lawyer or a policeman would suggest that you shooot to kill rather than maim to avoid a civil claim for damages due to disability - if they did this they would risk being disbarred or investigated.

[MaxYakov]

They should ban all smuggled assault rifles, semiautomatic pistols, hand grenades, IEDs and suicide vests!

Edited November 19, 2015 by MaxYakov

[chilli42]

If I were them, I would be considering implementing some of the laws created by Britan during the Malysian Emergency. I am a gun owner and I enjoy shooting. However, if owning a firearm were made a capital offense with a no terms lock up things would be easier for the security forces.

[crankshaft]

The governments wants to know where all legal guns are......make it easier to confiscate them

[bangon04]

Long time ago in UK it was very easy to get a licence. Now very difficult, but, as it will be in Europe with new gun laws no matter how strict; the people who want guns for terrorist reasons will get guns.

No laws will ever prevent it happening.

Where there is a demand there will be a supply.

The UK over the years has had success in hugely limiting the availability / supply of stealable firearms within its borders. No system is perfect.

Do you honestly think that if the UK police decided it needed forearms, then the government would deny them?

The UK police still feels that except in specific circumstances, they are still better off without raising the stakes.

[overherebc]

Long time ago in UK it was very easy to get a licence. Now very difficult, but, as it will be in Europe with new gun laws no matter how strict; the people who want guns for terrorist reasons will get guns.

No laws will ever prevent it happening.

Where there is a demand there will be a supply.

i always like to add that in fact the name or term 'Gun' should only be applied if it has wheels or tracks nowadays.

Firearms is better, the only real exception is shot-gun.

[Baerboxer]

will make it more difficult to buy firearms in Europe.

Legally, that is.

EU starts to remind me more and more of Soviet Union. In socialist countries it was upmost important to take the guns off from people...and we all know why.

When your own governments start to turn against you, how you are going to straighten that situation up?

Now they are after semiautomatic weapons meaning that shotguns and hunting riffles would be only a shot or two at the time. Great to make honest people's lives difficult.

For a terrorists or criminals it makes no difference whatsoever. They don't buy legal weapons. The ones used in Paris attacks were put together from illegal parts smuggled into the country.

Good riddance EU! I never wanted you but I will see the day you fall as all socialist experiments.

Of course. The UK already has strict gun laws, knife laws and anything classed as an offensive weapon laws.

Knuckledusters, batons, automatic knives, tasers, pepper sprays - can't keep them in your own house. Pocket knives carried outside the home must have a blade of less than 3 inch (including any ricasso) and only be slip-joint. Locking blades, fixed blades or knives over 3 inch are illegal. Even with a small legal pocket knife you are liable for trouble if someone complains you scared them with it, used it threateningly or a policeman decides you were not carrying it for an appropriate reason.

Now this response from the EU.

The EU (and UK) politicians want neutered populations that are totally reliant on the state for their safety, protection and well-being. Keep them under control.

Do those clowns really think terrorists are all gun permit and license holders who acquire their weapons legally? Is it actually possible, anywhere in EU, to legally buy a AK-47 for "home use"?

We live in an era that has the highest levels of state control, and the lowest personal freedoms ever. And that fits just dandy with the EU PC politicians and bureaucrats.

Add to that suppressed crime statistics so citizens can't see how many Muslim or immigrants are involved in crimes and the suppression of free speech regarding any adverse comments on Islam and you have the EU Utopia.

And these same political geniuses want to bring their Utopia to Asia, Africa and the ROW.

[JAG]

Long time ago in UK it was very easy to get a licence. Now very difficult, but, as it will be in Europe with new gun laws no matter how strict; the people who want guns for terrorist reasons will get guns.

No laws will ever prevent it happening.

Where there is a demand there will be a supply.

i always like to add that in fact the name or term 'Gun' should only be applied if it has wheels or tracks nowadays.

Firearms is better, the only real exception is shot-gun.

I favour the terms "gat" or "bundook" myself!

[uptheos]

The EU must be worried as it sees signs of European citizens trying to protect themselves, as is demonstrated by soaring gun sales in Sweden of all places.

Sweden's sale of feather dusters has decreased significantly.

[Jonmarleesco]

Given the evidence of its failure, in the inability of EU governments to control, never mind stem, the tide of immigrants over recent months, Schengen is obviously in dire need of restructuring, if not scrapping.

[arrowsdawdle]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

Have they learned nothing from the France tragedy? RIP

The Swiss seem to have their bases covered.

The EU and Obama seem to be deluded that making targets softer is the answer.

[cookee68]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

Not with a gun they dont in the UK, Cant speak for the rest of Europe

[JDGRUEN]

Totally STUPID idea for the EU countries to do ... The Paris terrorist attack was successful in killing 129 and wounding hundreds more BECAUSE the trapped people had to wait for the police to arrive. Had 30-40% of the people been bearing concealed weapons -- the terrorist would have been shot before killing anywhere near 129 people ...

No Gun Zones for the populace - No Gun bearers in the populace means a KILLING FIELD for any terrorist that gets a gun and they can get them easily as has been demonstrated in Paris just days ago ... The terrorists did not steal the guns from licensed gun owners in France or Belgium ... they were smuggled in to Europe. And many more guns already have been smuggled into Europe and bombs - and they are hidden ... Gun Laws have no positive effect because the terrorists are not governed by gun laws... they make their own laws...

[h90]

So europeans have no right to protect themselves.

It's worse than that. Europeans are forbidden by law from recognizing and naming the threat to their families. Why have a gun, when you are not even allowed to speak about the very clear threat?

If you shoot a murder and rapist that enters your house and he is disabled....you have to pay all your life

So the cynical recommendation is: to shoot him dead, pump the complete magazine into him, continue firing after the magazine is empty till the police comes. Than he is dead and you can claim you were under shock.

That is no joke....this is what police and layer recommends you if you ask in private.

You are also forbidden to discredit religion.....There were 2 cases of people had to pay for discredit the religion of peace in the news. One only took a part of the holy book and told that it is not compatible with modern laws.

So Europe is a political correct joke.....The Islamist might be right when they tell we are degenerate......If you protect the offender and punish the defender than you really lost something..

Laws regarding defending your property vary all over the EU.

The problem with the first example is that it is often very easy for the police to determine whether you killed someone deliberately rather than acting in self defence due to ballistics, blood splatter etc. Also, I very much doubt that a lawyer or a policeman would suggest that you shooot to kill rather than maim to avoid a civil claim for damages due to disability - if they did this they would risk being disbarred or investigated.

They say it to a friend while drinking beer, not as an official recommendation....I thought that is clear....But very open....it is told everywhere where it gets a bit private...

[TheCruncher]

BRUSSELS: -- EU officials on Wednesday unveiled plans that they say will make it more difficult to buy firearms in Europe.

It follows talks between governments on Monday after the deadly attacks in Paris.

As if a terrorist get his gun supply from the local weapon shop.

Edited November 20, 2015 by TheCruncher

[TheCruncher]

Totally STUPID idea for the EU countries to do ... The Paris terrorist attack was successful in killing 129 and wounding hundreds more BECAUSE the trapped people had to wait for the police to arrive. Had 30-40% of the people been bearing concealed weapons -- the terrorist would have been shot before killing anywhere near 129 people ...

And there might have been a few hundred more deaths, from people who start shooting in panic.

[roo860]

Just brilliant. Bureaucrat politicians answer. If we can't protect our citizenry then let's make it more difficult for our citizens to protect themselves. Criminals can ALWAYS get guns. Morons. Hey, something must be done and this is something, let's do it, the politician's kneejerk reaction to posture for the media. Heaven forbid you take time and think through a proper solution. If there would have been more guns available to the good citizens a lot less would have got hurt in Paris. Ok, don't take the US example take the Swiss example. Most all Swiss (not all but many, as the rules there change occasionally) are required to have an assault rifle with rounds in their home. It is sealed in plastic but, it is still there. If there is a problem the Swiss would have used them if necessary. Paris would never happen in Zurich. Ok, the Swiss have always had this arrangement and mindset and it may not work for other Euros but denuding the citizen further of their ability to protect themselves is no solution either.

So the the Swiss would go to a rock concert with their assault rifle wrapped in plastic, just in case a gunman appeared!! Dont talk <deleted>!!

[roo860]

Totally STUPID idea for the EU countries to do ... The Paris terrorist attack was successful in killing 129 and wounding hundreds more BECAUSE the trapped people had to wait for the police to arrive. Had 30-40% of the people been bearing concealed weapons -- the terrorist would have been shot before killing anywhere near 129 people ...

And there might have been a few hundred more deaths, from people who start shooting in panic.

Glad someone can talk sense, not like the idiots who say if 30 to 40% were armed would have been different, yeah probably more killed!!! Edited November 20, 2015 by roo860

[Scott]

US gun laws are not relevant to this topic.

Please stay on topic.

Edit: Off-topic posts and replies have been removed.

[roo860]

Why can't I post?

[roo860]

And don't say I talk tripe!

[7by7]

It is true that no matter how tough a country's gun laws are, illegal weapons will still be available and used.

Terrorist groups such as that responsible for the Paris atrocity will almost certainly be able to smuggle illegal weapons into Europe.

The experience of the UK with the IRA in the 1970's shows that (and we all know who supplied them with their guns).

However, tougher gun laws will make it far more difficult for individuals and small groups to obtain and use guns and so will save lives; the tougher gun laws in the UK introduced since Dunblane shows that.

The argument that had people inside the crowded Paris theatre been armed they could have killed the terrorists before the terrorists killed so many is ridiculous. The terrorists would simply have placed people between themselves and those shooting at them, resulting in even more innocent victims.