Father Leaving with Kids

[Forethat]

I went to the UK this week and was asked for nothing. My daughter is 13 but could pass for older.

Leaving Thailand we were in different queues.

Entering the UK, I asked the immigration guy and he said because we had the same surname, there was no problem.

We could have gone through at different times. I wonder if there is an age limit where a kid can travel alone. With BA is allowed.

Most airlines offer a service where they take care of minors who travel alone. This is typically only offered for children up to 12 years of age. Minors can travel alone given certain conditions such as non-stop flights only etc.

[MikeyIdea]

Ditto, to some degree airline policy has an effect, some are stricter than others.

Nothing to do with the airlines.

As in any country, you would not have any problems unless your wife has asked for a travel restrictions for the children (by court order, which will pop up on the immigration computer when they scan the children's passports).

The last bit is wrong:

You do have problems also if wife hasn't asked for travel restrictions. There is a legal form that the father and the mother jointly should request from the amphur before one of them travel abroad. It is possible for a father to bring his Thai child abroad also without it but the 2 will normally be taken aside to the immigration supervisors desk and he will call and check with the mother. The immigration officer will actually not know if it is the real mother he talks to or not...

Some western fathers go through with their child without any problems at all but then the childs passport always has other stamps in it already. It's the blank passport that triggers warnings

This should be implemented for both mothers and fathers but it is not in Thailand.

There are actually quite a few countries in the world that have implemented this rule now when child trafficking has become a hot subject. Remember the film Taken with Liam Neeson?

Edited April 22, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

you need a letter from the wife that she is ok with them leaving the country, birth papers.

are you the legal father?

....

I presented, my so I thought "Legal father paper" from the Amphoe for the two younger boys,

but as it turned out,

was useless, maybe was no "Legal" father paper from Amphoe.

Until now nobody on Thaivisa.com could or would tell me what the wording in such Amphoe paper has to be.

A similar question asked in the Udon Thani Immigration office showed Thai smiles and no answer.

Would be helpful, when I would get some information about that =Legal father paper= from Amphoe wording.

.....

Legal father paper from the amphur is easy: It's Kor Ror 11 for shared custody. I think it was Kor Ror 13 for sole custody

[stoneyboy]

From recent experience it is best to have the signed consent form from the Amphur simple as that.

[MikeyIdea]

From recent experience it is best to have the signed consent form from the Amphur simple as that.

Yes, absolutely. And it only takes 15 minutes to get if come to the amphur if we go there directly when they open at 8AM.

Mother needs ID card, western father needs passport or Thai pink ID card

[ALFREDO]

you need a letter from the wife that she is ok with them leaving the country, birth papers.

are you the legal father?

....

I presented, my so I thought "Legal father paper" from the Amphoe for the two younger boys,

but as it turned out,

was useless, maybe was no "Legal" father paper from Amphoe.

Until now nobody on Thaivisa.com could or would tell me what the wording in such Amphoe paper has to be.

A similar question asked in the Udon Thani Immigration office showed Thai smiles and no answer.

Would be helpful, when I would get some information about that =Legal father paper= from Amphoe wording.

.....

Legal father paper from the amphur is easy: It's Kor Ror 11 for shared custody. I think it was Kor Ror 13 for sole custody

Thank you, I will try to check that out.

[HooHaa]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' goverment paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

Have you been on the trip yet? If so did they ask for all that?

Does age of the child matter? My daughter is 13.

This seems way over the top and I am not going to prepare all the above. Possible a trip to the local Amphur but certainly not a trip to Bangkok.

Also, the travel agent said nothing about it.

My travel agent gives excellent legal advice too.

[MikeyIdea]

you need a letter from the wife that she is ok with them leaving the country, birth papers.

are you the legal father?

....

I presented, my so I thought "Legal father paper" from the Amphoe for the two younger boys,

but as it turned out,

was useless, maybe was no "Legal" father paper from Amphoe.

Until now nobody on Thaivisa.com could or would tell me what the wording in such Amphoe paper has to be.

A similar question asked in the Udon Thani Immigration office showed Thai smiles and no answer.

Would be helpful, when I would get some information about that =Legal father paper= from Amphoe wording.

.....

Legal father paper from the amphur is easy: It's Kor Ror 11 for shared custody. I think it was Kor Ror 13 for sole custody

Thank you, I will try to check that out.

One additional comment

You probably have "Bai Rapp Rong Bott", that's Kor Ror 11, and there's hardly anything wrong with it as such, it's just that you would actually require sole custody to take the child out of the country without the mothers consent from an Immigration officers perspective.

I attach the header of Kor Ror 11 so that you can compare with what you have

[ALFREDO]

One additional comment

Thank you, I will let check my Gf.

But see already no KorSor 11 writing? the older Amphoe official said he knew what my Gf and I wanted, but seems he did not?

[MikeyIdea]

One additional comment

Thank you, I will let check my Gf.

But see already no KorSor 11 writing? the older Amphoe official said he knew what my Gf and I wanted, but seems he did not?

There are 2 versions of Bai rapp rong bott, the old handwritten one that I have attached an image of and the computer printout we get nowadays.

Both must have คร11 Kor Ror 11 somewhere

The older amphur official would certainly know what คร11 is, if he "doesn't", then there is something else wrong

[Sawan Chan 7]

you need a letter from the wife that she is ok with them leaving the country, birth papers.

are you the legal father?

....

I presented, my so I thought "Legal father paper" from the Amphoe for the two younger boys,

but as it turned out,

was useless, maybe was no "Legal" father paper from Amphoe.

Until now nobody on Thaivisa.com could or would tell me what the wording in such Amphoe paper has to be.

A similar question asked in the Udon Thani Immigration office showed Thai smiles and no answer.

Would be helpful, when I would get some information about that =Legal father paper= from Amphoe wording.

.....

Legal father paper from the amphur is easy: It's Kor Ror 11 for shared custody. I think it was Kor Ror 13 for sole custody

Thank you, I will try to check that out.

One additional comment

You probably have "Bai Rapp Rong Bott", that's Kor Ror 11, and there's hardly anything wrong with it as such, it's just that you would actually require sole custody to take the child out of the country without the mothers consent from an Immigration officers perspective.

I attach the header of Kor Ror 11 so that you can compare with what you have

[Sawan Chan 7]

This document is only needed if your surnames are different. It is wise to take the childs birth certificate. They may question you, especially if you look like a weirdo or the kid is a step kid but never refuse exit entry.

As for the guy saying he would have been refused entry to the UK without this letter- BS.

[MikeyIdea]

This document is only needed if your surnames are different. It is wise to take the childs birth certificate. They may question you, especially if you look like a weirdo or the kid is a step kid but never refuse exit entry.

As for the guy saying he would have been refused entry to the UK without this letter- BS.

Thai immigration when you leave Thailand does not care about surname of the child. I talked to the immigration supervisor when I left with my daughter on a new blank passport (without bringing the old passport... that was stupid of me, should have brought it) - because he wouldn't let me out with my 10 year old daughter with my surname last year and he said that they have been instructed to check more carefully than before and that main trigger for them is blank passport.

I also had original birth certificate, original father certificate KR.11proving shared custody and a handwritten witnessed note from the mother allowing me to take the child for the period matching the airplane tickets to show and he still insisted on calling the mother. She was drunk when she picked up the phone

I am pretty sure I would have gone straight through if passport had not been blank. This is exit Thailand, I have no idea what British immigration require to let people in

So again, go to the amphur with the mother and spend 15 minutes to get the official form. It is good that Thailand is one of the better countries in the world when it comes to checking this, not bad

Edited April 27, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Johnniey]

I recently went to the UK with my daughter. Her Passport was new and blank. No problems - let straight through. No letters asked for.

[laolover88]

Never had any problem. 3 children, now teenagers. Mother in Thailand. She goes nowhere. All enter Thailand on Thai Passports. Have Thai ID cards. Enter the UK on UK Passports. Surname same as mine. Done this probably 15 times in 10 years. No further documentation ever required. Usually fly Eva or BA..

[ALFREDO]

One additional comment

Thank you, I will let check my Gf.

But see already no KorSor 11 writing? the older Amphoe official said he knew what my Gf and I wanted, but seems he did not?

There are 2 versions of Bai rapp rong bott, the old handwritten one that I have attached an image of and the computer printout we get nowadays.

Both must have คร11 Kor Ror 11 somewhere

The older amphur official would certainly know what คร11 is, if he "doesn't", then there is something else wrong

Thank you, had until now no possibility to show and compare the paper and stamp, with my Gf,will go from there then. also with the naming Kor Ror 11 and will speak with Amphoe

[ALFREDO]

This document is only needed if your surnames are different. It is wise to take the childs birth certificate. They may question you, especially if you look like a weirdo or the kid is a step kid but never refuse exit entry.

As for the guy saying he would have been refused entry to the UK without this letter- BS.

I would need the -Legal father- paper for a possible? Non Immigrant O for a year in Savannaketh and/or for a year extension in the local Udon Thani Immigration.

As I was told and as far as I have seen, the Birth certificates, showing you as a father inside is what the Immigration was last time asking for. (Oct. 2015)

Until then, never was asked before when crossing borders with my children alone.

[homer1384]

Did you manage to get your Kor ror 11 sorted?

Im just starting the process of obtaining one.

[ALFREDO]

Did you manage to get your Kor ror 11 sorted?

Im just starting the process of obtaining one.

NO!,

I live now since 14 years with the oldest boy in TH without such a paper and survived,

but I will post something as soon as I showed my GF the posting here from that paper in comparison to that what I have got.

[puffy]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' government paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

At SVM - all went smoothly - we were taken to one side to check the FMB letter and the kiddies name on the computer - all was in order. through in a couple of minutes.

At London Heathrow LHR .... err I assumed that with us both being UK citizens and passport holders that entry would be easy. NOT SO.

Immigration wanted to know where the mother was and why she wasn't travelling with us together. We were both taken out the Que and interrogated. Shit got very real very quickly.

It was looking very much like we were not going to be let us into the UK and would have to return to Thailand.

Then, I showed them the FMB letter and its official English translation - then suddenly all the peaked hats smiled and wished us good luck and we were on our way.

The only conclusion I can come to is this :-

• There is a proper procedure to go through together with official forms to obtain that need to be officiated at the highest level if you do not want to risk falling into a sticky situation explaining yourself to suspicious customs officers trying to establish if you really have permission to take the child overseas.

Background info on how serious child parental kidnapping is considered to be as a world wide crime... there are plenty of John and Jane Doe's convicted of parental kidnapping (Their only crime) on the FBI's Most Wanted List.

What reason did they give you for making you think you would not be able to enter the country.

I am confused because your post suggests you are a British Citizen, so you could not be denied entry.

[Johnniey]

Interesting. Lots of different suggestions. What happened to me was different again.

One thing everyone should be aware of is that child kidnapping has become a very hot topic in Thailand during the last 12 months driving the Thai Authorities to tighten up their immigration inspections to prevent this heinous crime.

The above being said, this is what I was instructed to prepares by government officials so as to ensure a smooth pass through immigration at SVM. Airport

Plan: For the Father (me) to take a dual citizen (UK/Thai) 10 year old child to the UK for a 1 month holiday, and for my mother(UK citizen) to bring her back to Thailand.

Reguirement(Thailand end)

1. The Whole family goes to the ampheur office for the wife to dictate a letter to the 'Nai Ampheur' on official 'Garuda' government paper in Thai language giving permission for the trip.

2. Wife and daughter have to go to the Foreign Ministry in Bangkok (FMB) with the Thai permission letter.

3. The Thai letter has to be officially translated at the FMB into English

4. Both the Thai and English versions of the permission letter have to 'officiated by the FMB.

5. During the registration of the permission to travel letter, The FMB enter the childs name, together with starting permission to leave date and ending permission date onto the immigration computer for checking at the airport when you pass through.

At SVM - all went smoothly - we were taken to one side to check the FMB letter and the kiddies name on the computer - all was in order. through in a couple of minutes.

At London Heathrow LHR .... err I assumed that with us both being UK citizens and passport holders that entry would be easy. NOT SO.

Immigration wanted to know where the mother was and why she wasn't travelling with us together. We were both taken out the Que and interrogated. Shit got very real very quickly.

It was looking very much like we were not going to be let us into the UK and would have to return to Thailand.

Then, I showed them the FMB letter and its official English translation - then suddenly all the peaked hats smiled and wished us good luck and we were on our way.

The only conclusion I can come to is this :-

• There is a proper procedure to go through together with official forms to obtain that need to be officiated at the highest level if you do not want to risk falling into a sticky situation explaining yourself to suspicious customs officers trying to establish if you really have permission to take the child overseas.

Background info on how serious child parental kidnapping is considered to be as a world wide crime... there are plenty of John and Jane Doe's convicted of parental kidnapping (Their only crime) on the FBI's Most Wanted List.

What reason did they give you for making you think you would not be able to enter the country.

I am confused because your post suggests you are a British Citizen, so you could not be denied entry.

I don't think you'll get an answer as I believe this to be a work of fiction. I can't begin to think of the motive for providing this false information.

Firstly, there is no need to get things translated at the foreign ministry.

Secondly, if your surnames are the same, no such document is required.

Thirdly, you and your child could enter separately in the UK - they CAN"T refuse two British citizens.