Buying house - What basics needed to properly complete sale?

[jcates29]

Here are the relevant facts -- many thanks to those who can provide any useful information. Please let me know if you need additional information.

After living here for one year and "firmly" deciding to rent and not to buy, my Thai wife and I found a house which due to location and price was too perfect to pass up, and we have made an verbal agreement to purchase the house and land. We do not have a realtor or attorney and neither does the seller, and we would like to avoid the extra expense. However, we also realize by doing the transaction without the help of such professionals, we run certain not-insubstantial risks. My questions are, one, what things do I need to be sure to accomplish, and, two, should I go ahead and engage an attorney to accomplish these things appropriately?

Here are more details:

-- My wife will be the purchaser.

-- We have a copy of the chanote, and we have taken it to the local land office, and they have provided verbal assurance that the seller is indeed the owner, and that the property is unencumbered.

-- My wife will buy the property outright (no financing). If asked, she could prove that the funds for the purchase are hers and not mine.

My understanding is that we need to have a notarized bill of sale signed by both the buyer and seller, and that along with appropriate identification documents, we need to take the bill of sale to the land office and pay a transfer tax. Then the chanote will be revised and recorded making my wife the owner.

Are there other documents or actions that must be accomplished to effect sale and transfer of ownership? Are there any other things I need to watch out for that could prove a nasty surprise (such as unknown/unrecorded but otherwise substantiated encumbrances, or somehow not completing certain steps that could threaten the fact of my wife's ownership of the property?)

[Langsuan Man]

My understanding is that we need to have a notarized bill of sale signed by both the buyer and seller, and that along with appropriate identification documents, we need to take the bill of sale to the land office and pay a transfer tax. Then the chanote will be revised and recorded making my wife the owner.

You generally have the procedure down correctly but in most cases both the buyer and the seller show up at the Land Office and once the buyer presents the payment to the seller the Land Office takes care of everything

At least I never had to deal with "notarized" anything, the Land Office in effect did the notarization by registering the transaction and issuing the Chanote

Since you have already contacted the Land Office about the legitimacy of the current Chanote I am sure that they will be more than happy to explain what they want and how to accomplish it without a lawyer

[keeniau96]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

[tomacht8]

Seems so far everything ok.
I prefer payment through bank accounts, but when you pay cash you let sign the seller a receipt.
Make a copy from the sellers ID too.
The house book; Tabian Ban you should also take over.
Make yourself a good contract, that the land and also the house is guarantees unencumbered.
Check also the right of way (Public or private road access).
Check the water access (Own well, public line or goes the water supply with blue pipes over other land.)
Check that there are no public electricity pylons on the property.
Also speak with the neighbors. (Nice people?, How do they use their land? For residential purposes or Business?)
I know of cases where, for example, has the neighbor opened a car repair shop, with sheet metal hammers and angle grinders work activities until late at night. Other examples: neighbor opened garbage collection point; neighbor opened a fish drying plant.
Better to look twice, then regret the buying later.

Edited December 23, 2015 by tomacht8

[MaeJoMTB]

Your understanding is wrong,

You need the buyer, the seller and the money at the local land office with their ID cards and house books.

Nothing else required at all.

[MAJIC]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

Which translated means lie now and pay for the lie later, UP2U.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Sounds like you have most things down pat. If there is a lien on the property it will show up at the Land Office or if not then it is not there. The seller in our case had a bill of sale but I don't think it was notarized. Just a legal description of the property being sold as mine came with several parcels of land. A few signature and witness. The Village Headman also had to sign something. But I don't know if this was needed to make the deal. The seller will know.

As someone pointed out early, we went down with the seller to the bank and also the land office together. You need to determine who is paying the taxes. In my case the seller agreed to do that but I think the normal is you split that 50-50. Once the agreement was accepted by the Land Office we paid the seller in cash.

You may want to consider a "Usufruct" in Thailand, although I understand it may not available in Pattaya anymore. It doesn't protect you against a Divorce, as the normal is to split the property of the marriage 50-50, but it does prevent you from being evicted from the property right away. Also from unforeseen circumstance like the sudden death of your wife. Who on record is the sole property owner, since you can't own land in Thailand normally.

I used a Lawyer for that but it didn't cost much money. Perhaps around 6,000 to 8,000 Baht for several parcels of land and house. But other than that we never used a lawyer.

[swissbie]

The land office normally doesn't care when and how you pay, however taxes have to be paid before any transaction. But it really depends where you buy. I was never asked to sign anything about the origin of the funds. However, for the townhouse here near Bangkok we had to go to the land office and to the amphoe, needed a contract and even a confirmation from the constructor of the houses (moo bahn). For the house with land in the deep south we just had to go to the land office, sign the agreement, pay the taxes and got the renamed chanote. That's just about buying a house/land, divorce, death, problems with neighbours etc. are other chapters.. Good luck with house and wife.

[LukKrueng]

Seems so far everything ok.

I prefer payment through bank accounts, but when you pay cash you let sign the seller a receipt.

Make a copy from the sellers ID too.

The house book; Tabian Ban you should also take over.

Make yourself a good contract, that the land and also the house is guarantees unencumbered.

Check also the right of way (Public or private road access).

Check the water access (Own well, public line or goes the water supply with blue pipes over other land.)

Check that there are no public electricity pylons on the property.

Also speak with the neighbors. (Nice people?, How do they use their land? For residential purposes or Business?)

I know of cases where, for example, has the neighbor opened a car repair shop, with sheet metal hammers and angle grinders work activities until late at night. Other examples: neighbor opened garbage collection point; neighbor opened a fish drying plant.

Better to look twice, then regret the buying later.

OP asked about the procedure of buying and transferring ownership of a property, not about how to check if the property is good or not or how to protect himself from his wife...

As for the procedure itself -

If you dealt with the owner directly there is no need to involve a lawyer or agent. The seller and buyer (your wife) go to the land department with whatever form of payment you agreed upon (usually cash, cashier cheque or a combination of both). A receipt is only needed if you give a down payment in advance.

At the land department the officer will fill a standard buy/sell agreement which both parties sign in front of him/her. The officer will calculate the tax / transfer fees and either party go to the cashier to pay that amount. With the receipt for the fees you go back to the officer who will than put the buyer's name on both the original Chanot (which the buyer get) and the copy that stays at the land department.

Married people (at least Thai) have to get the spouse's signature as well (and thus when the registered owner wants to sell or mortgage the property that spouse will have to sign a consent). So if you are not officially married in Thailand and your wife's title on her ID card is Ms. and not Mrs. - you don't even have to be there.

If you are married and your wife is Mrs. - as someone mentioned above - as a foreigner you might have to sign another document you don't have any claim on the property - I don't know this procedure.

The documents your wife need for the transfer are her ID card and her tabian baan. The seller need the same + the original chanot of the property of course.

The tabian baan is not a proof of ownership, but a proof of someone's place of residency. If there is one, you should get it from the seller but that has nothing to do with the land department. If anyone is registered in the tabian baan as living in the house, they have to remove themselves and that is done by them (you can't do it) by them going to any ampoe with a tabian baan in which they want to be registered in. If there is no tabian baan, or the seller lost it, your wife will have to go to the ampoe with a copy of the chanot and buy/sell agreement (might also need a police report for lost document - I'm not sure about that) and a new tabian baan will be issued (with the names of all those still registered as living there. Your wife, however can register herself in this tabian baan as the house chief.

Good luck and enjoy your new property.

[LukKrueng]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

There is no new chanot. The name of the new owner is typed and stamped under the previous one. A property that changed hands many times will have the names of all owners listed. The bottom name is the latest and current owner. If the property is mortgaged (or to be mortgaged in the future) the lender (usually a bank) will be there too.

[tomacht8]

@ Luk Krueng, take it easy.
A lot of good advice here from different perspectives.
Hope the OP will report how it went.

[tomacht8]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

There is no new chanot. The name of the new owner is typed and stamped under the previous one. A property that changed hands many times will have the names of all owners listed. The bottom name is the latest and current owner. If the property is mortgaged (or to be mortgaged in the future) the lender (usually a bank) will be there too.

Correct.

but also for the house should be set out in a contract, that the house is included and will be sold empty at the date.

[Thunderbirds20]

Take it from a guy that learned the hard way, .... buy a condo in your own name and pay the extra for professional assistance. I built a house and lost everything when my wife decided I had outlived my usefulness. you might think you are different, ...that is what I thought

A condo in your name protects you!

[ableguy]

Also register a usafruct at the land office giving you the right to live in said property until death.

[ableguy]

Sounds like you have most things down pat. If there is a lien on the property it will show up at the Land Office or if not then it is not there. The seller in our case had a bill of sale but I don't think it was notarized. Just a legal description of the property being sold as mine came with several parcels of land. A few signature and witness. The Village Headman also had to sign something. But I don't know if this was needed to make the deal. The seller will know.

As someone pointed out early, we went down with the seller to the bank and also the land office together. You need to determine who is paying the taxes. In my case the seller agreed to do that but I think the normal is you split that 50-50. Once the agreement was accepted by the Land Office we paid the seller in cash.

You may want to consider a "Usufruct" in Thailand, although I understand it may not available in Pattaya anymore. It doesn't protect you against a Divorce, as the normal is to split the property of the marriage 50-50, but it does prevent you from being evicted from the property right away. Also from unforeseen circumstance like the sudden death of your wife. Who on record is the sole property owner, since you can't own land in Thailand normally.

I used a Lawyer for that but it didn't cost much money. Perhaps around 6,000 to 8,000 Baht for several parcels of land and house. But other than that we never used a lawyer.

Get the wife to write a will leaving the property to you upon her death if you have a usufruct, you then have one year to sell it.

If no will the house will go to her next of kin.

[Brit_Doggie]

Ok you don't know me but I trust you so send me 1 million I guarantee no issues for at least 1 week.

[jcates29]

Many thanks to all who replied with helpful comments. We completed the sale on 28 December. Easy as pie apart from waiting at government offices. It took the bank officials to explain the concept of a cashiers check to the seller - they wanted the transfer at the bank before going to the land office. I wasn't going for that. Finally sorted it out. My wife is now a proud property owner.

[Henryford]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

I was considering getting a house in my wife's name but it would entail me giving her the money. Does this mean that i can not do this legally? Why does it matter where the money came from if the thai wife is buying it.

[jcates29]

You will have to sign a standard form at the Land Office that you (the farang) did not provide any money for your wife to buy the property. No getting around that, no sign no Ok by Land Office, no new chanote.

I was considering getting a house in my wife's name but it would entail me giving her the money. Does this mean that i can not do this legally? Why does it matter where the money came from if the thai wife is buying it.

I'm guessing it is more about requiring non-Thai citizens to pre-emptively sign away their rights to the property, as a condition of completing the sale, rather than trying to determine how the Thai wife acquired the money. That is, it does not matter how she actually got the money, but if you sign a document that states it is her money and not yours, and you have no claim on the property, then if she predeceases you, you do not gain ownership of the property, which would be prohibited by Thai law. I'm no lawyer and I imagine there could be something about what I've said that could be technically inaccurate, but I think that is the general idea behind the document we non-Thais must sign in order for the Thai wife to complete the purchase of real estate.