Sister of murdered backpacker Hannah Witheridge receives death threats

[Eirene]

@farcanell - There is no jury in the Thai Judicial Sytsem. - http://www.thailandcourt.com/the-thai-court-system.html

The next question will be about were a retrial is to he heard... KT is a biased jury pool, so in IMHO, the retrial needs to be moved to Bangkok, or somewhere else, were the jury pool has no (or little) vested interest in the case.

Now, that is something that the British consul could attempt to influence, without forcing a loss of face.

I do really dislike it when ill informed people post on the forum, I really do, For deleted deleted ! Which Jury? When was there a trial on KT?

Well you certainly put me right on that score, didn't you... Sort of.... But the sentiment stands as Samui will be compromised too.... I really do dislike it when smug Martha $u{rs post without bothering to inform or correct simple mistakes

[TheLobster]

I've seen several "I've read the report posts" They are based on what many consider to to an unfair and biased trial.

Andy Hall is a clever guy and would not play his hand to point out the errors. This will be done at the next stage.

Rules of Engagement here:

Do not quote trolls/shills

Do not reply to trolls/shills just state what you are arguing against

Do not assume that everyone that likes your post is a supporter of truth and justice

Understand that a major ploy is misdirection in some posts

Understand there is no evidence of a murder having been committed by the B2 which leads to the question why a death sentence?

Be patient wait for the DNA evidence to be scrutinised

^ wannabee moderator

Fortunately your post wasn't deleted for using the M word and Oops .... I'm making an exception to my rule, why I ask myself? Oh yes, you quoted the rules of engagement, thank you.

[IslandLover]

DrTuner, on 12 Jan 2016 - 07:03, said:

The arm of the Koh Tai mafia is long enough to reach into UK?

It's already reached as far as Milan, Italy.

What happened in Milan?

Sean McAnna

[IslandLover]

asiamaster, on 14 Jan 2016 - 06:19, said:

Laura Witheridge's Facebook page has now completely been taken down....

Are you surprised?

[farcanell]

@farcanell - There is no jury in the Thai Judicial Sytsem. - http://www.thailandcourt.com/the-thai-court-system.html

The next question will be about were a retrial is to he heard... KT is a biased jury pool, so in IMHO, the retrial needs to be moved to Bangkok, or somewhere else, were the jury pool has no (or little) vested interest in the case.

Now, that is something that the British consul could attempt to influence, without forcing a loss of face.

I do really dislike it when ill informed people post on the forum, I really do, For deleted deleted ! Which Jury? When was there a trial on KT?

Well you certainly put me right on that score, didn't you... Sort of.... But the sentiment stands as Samui will be compromised too.... I really do dislike it when smug Martha $u{rs post without bothering to inform or correct simple mistakes

Really?

It seems that I have a lot to learn about the system as it practiced.... And I'm happy to be educated, perhaps by explaining how this headline made it into the " free" press.... Or do you mean that the jury serves no purpose?

[JLCrab]

When you cross through Immigration at the airport or land border you are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand whether you think such judicial system is wrong or not.

You didn't answer my question, you just posted a deflection to ignore it. I can see that you are become more and more like the other RTP shills, same tactics are starting to be used by you.

No -- I went to sleep. You can discuss the verdict all you want. Maybe the defense team will pick up a few pointers for their appeal.

[JLCrab]

When you cross through Immigration at the airport or land border you are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand whether you think such judicial system is wrong or not.

However true that might be to you Mr Crab, there will be millions around who would argue that human rights have no borders. By your pic you are old enough to remember Saloth Sar AKA Pol Pot, When Vietnamese troops poured into Cambodia I cannot remember one single person saying hang on you must now you're in Cambodia do everything Pol Pot's way , No Sir quite the opposite the world clapped when the Vietnamese did it their way. What you are saying justifies the terrible deeds done by Hitler because it was done inside his borders, No Sir, No way. When Thailand did not follow a normal duty of care to visitors Hannah David, Nick, Luke et al and more importantly the B2 they have opened themselves to attacks on their sovereignty such as is happening with the Anonymous actions.

You'r not going to next put up that Niemoller quote, are you?e

[KunMatt]

When you cross through Immigration at the airport or land border you are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand whether you think such judicial system is wrong or not.

You didn't answer my question, you just posted a deflection to ignore it. I can see that you are become more and more like the other RTP shills, same tactics are starting to be used by you.

No -- I went to sleep. You can discuss the verdict all you want. Maybe the defense team will pick up a few pointers for their appeal.

No, you ignored my question and instead said some heinous nonsense about whatever happens within Thailand's borders is up to them.

Anyway, here's the chain again for you to answer;

In this instance it is the Judges who get to say what they consider normal.

Isn't that exactly what is wrong with this, and many more, trials?

[balo]

So Even TVF gets a mention by Anonymous on this whole affair..

"Various sock puppet accounts appear on online message boards such as Thaivisa.com attempting to derail commentary on the incident and the character assassination of the only witness begins."

Don't be surprised if Anonymous has been a member here for a long time.

[JLCrab]

Quite. Out of a jury of 12 random people who lead 'normal' lives, from all walks of life you could possibly find that 50% of them would consider swimming in the (light) rain a most pleasant and uplifting experience and quite a 'normal' pursuit.

It's many years since I last went skinny dipping in the sea at night, but I went swimming (not skinny dipping I hasten to add) with my lad in the 20th floor pool at the Baiyoke Sky last year. It was raining quite hard at the time, and a bit breezy. And we weren't the only guests in there enjoying ourselves .

Yes -- but I guess the night that you went swimming on the rain on the 20th floor there had not been 2 people murdered just prior on the 19th floor and the police stopped by to ask you why you had just decided to take a swim on the 20th floor.

[JLCrab]

To the above: In Thailand as in many countries, the judges hear the evidence and then -- unless there is a jury -- the Judges get to offer their opinion which is often subject review to a higher court.

The rules for Criminal Procedure in Thailand date to 1934 as amended -- maybe the guy above is suggesting they should be scrapped

[AleG]

So Even TVF gets a mention by Anonymous on this whole affair..

"Various sock puppet accounts appear on online message boards such as Thaivisa.com attempting to derail commentary on the incident and the character assassination of the only witness begins."

It's funny, because I remember the first time I read that it was quoted by a person that ended up using three names (as far as I know) in TV.

Projection, projection, projection...

[AleG]

They said

"#‎Anonymous are awaiting photos that will show just how much corruption and lies by the Thai police on the Island of Koh Tao exist. Our picture will clearly show it was more than just a drowning......We are awaiting pictures the Thai police do not know were taken."

so they actually "have" nothing...at the moment. I hope they produce some evidence to back up their claims.

They will !!

Can you remind me what was your stance on people distributing photos of the victims on Internet?

Because, IIRC, you (and company) have expressed outrage at such photos of David Miller and Hannah Witheridge being released.

There was no doubt than Hannah was murdered in a most diabolical way. Pictures were posted by individuals on facebook which were completely disrespectful to her and her family by people in authority no less.

In this case (Luke Miller) it is unclear whether it was an accident or murder so pictures that show evidence that it was not an accidental drowning would seem to be appropriate.

I expected nothing but a double standard: "It's OK if we do it"

[Thesticle]

Though I dont agree with everything JL Crab says I find his posts unantagonistic and sober. Some of you immediatly rise to the bait and attack anyone who disagrees with you. Its important that we have contributers like JL Crab for healthy debate. Just because you may disagree with him doesnt make him a shill. Having worthy adversaries in this debate is healthy as it can make you rethink your opinion and hone your point of view. To dismiss what he says out of hand because you dont agree is narrow minded. Thanks Crab.

[lucky11]

So you believe everything that is written in newspapers, do you (farcanell).

Thai courts do not use a jury system. The verdict is arrived at by the presiding judge in the case!!

In other words, the 'jury' could not have seen these pictures as there was no jury to see them.

[farcanell]

Quite. Out of a jury of 12 random people who lead 'normal' lives, from all walks of life you could possibly find that 50% of them would consider swimming in the (light) rain a most pleasant and uplifting experience and quite a 'normal' pursuit.

It's many years since I last went skinny dipping in the sea at night, but I went swimming (not skinny dipping I hasten to add) with my lad in the 20th floor pool at the Baiyoke Sky last year. It was raining quite hard at the time, and a bit breezy. And we weren't the only guests in there enjoying ourselves .

Yes -- but I guess the night that you went swimming on the rain on the 20th floor there had not been 2 people murdered just prior on the 19th floor and the police stopped by to ask you why you had just decided to take a swim on the 20th floor.

The night, or nights, as there have been many, that I went swimming, I certainly had no idea of any such thing... ( beach swimming, not pool swimming) and How would I?

And how soon softer the fact were the bodies found?

I thought ( please correct me if wrong) that the swimming bit came out later... Volunteered by one of the accused.

So back to square one... A couple of lads, after jamming with a few brews, decided to go for a swim in the light rain and balmy sea... All innocent enough in my book

If they knew enough about DNA, then they should have taken the bodies for a swim too... I most certainly would have, had I committed this heinous crime.... And I would have swum a very long way away from the actual murder scene.... And I would have taken the hoe, dumping it a long way from the scene

But maybe all they knew was that they were covered in blood.... Which regardless, would probably still show up on their cloths, and could be used as evidence against then.

Wait.. Wait... Wait... Didn't I read somewhere that the cloths went missing?

"So mr prosecutor, all the evidence that you can supply amounts to this photocopied memo from some copper, saying that the kids did the deed..., is that correct?"

"Yes your honor, but unfortunately a flock of pigs flew over and crapped on the scene, obliterating everything else"

I really fail to see how any sane person, especially an expat, could possible think that this conviction was beyond doubt.... It boggles the mind, it does

[B166ER]

....wow....concur.... Lucky # Sleven...

[mrrizzla]

So Even TVF gets a mention by Anonymous on this whole affair..

"Various sock puppet accounts appear on online message boards such as Thaivisa.com attempting to derail commentary on the incident and the character assassination of the only witness begins."

That would be AleG. The others are just trolls.

[farcanell]

@farcanell - There is no jury in the Thai Judicial Sytsem. - http://www.thailandcourt.com/the-thai-court-system.html

The next question will be about were a retrial is to he heard... KT is a biased jury pool, so in IMHO, the retrial needs to be moved to Bangkok, or somewhere else, were the jury pool has no (or little) vested interest in the case.

Now, that is something that the British consul could attempt to influence, without forcing a loss of face.

I do really dislike it when ill informed people post on the forum, I really do, For deleted deleted ! Which Jury? When was there a trial on KT?

Well you certainly put me right on that score, didn't you... Sort of.... But the sentiment stands as Samui will be compromised too.... I really do dislike it when smug Martha $u{rs post without bothering to inform or correct simple mistakes

Really?

It seems that I have a lot to learn about the system as it practiced.... And I'm happy to be educated, perhaps by explaining how this headline made it into the " free" press.... Or do you mean that the jury serves no purpose?

Eirene.... I did spend quite some time looking into the jury in Thailand situation, and from what I read, you are quite right... Though I still don't understand how comments can be made in " western" media about juries.... Yet more confusion to wade thru.

[farcanell]

So you believe everything that is written in newspapers, do you (farcanell).

Thai courts do not use a jury system. The verdict is arrived at by the presiding judge in the case!!

In other words, the 'jury' could not have seen these pictures as there was no jury to see them.

I absolutely do not believe everything that I read in a newspaper.... And I absolutely do not believe everything I read in this forum.

I did say I was happy to be educated, and this morning spent an hour on the net, cross checking various courts and crimes, to see what else was out there, to find a more reliable source than a TV poster

Consequent to that research, I have posted to Eirene on the matter.... But thank you to for your succinct input

[lucky11]

So you believe everything that is written in newspapers, do you (farcanell).

Thai courts do not use a jury system. The verdict is arrived at by the presiding judge in the case!!

In other words, the 'jury' could not have seen these pictures as there was no jury to see them.

I absolutely do not believe everything that I read in a newspaper.... And I absolutely do not believe everything I read in this forum.

I did say I was happy to be educated, and this morning spent an hour on the net, cross checking various courts and crimes, to see what else was out there, to find a more reliable source than a TV poster

Consequent to that research, I have posted to Eirene on the matter.... But thank you to for your succinct input

So you decided that a foreign newspaper who's reporter had, likely, not been to Thailand recently was better than a TV poster in providing more reliable information on this subject!! Surely, if you had spent an hour surfing the web and all you could find was a newspaper headline of a British newspaper then I would have thought that this might point to an error in the reporter's story.

Don't get me wrong, I will be going to the UK in just over a week's time and I will buy my Daily/Sunday mirror every day of the three weeks I'm there. I have been an avid reader of this paper for all of my life, as it reflects my politics (in the UK). On the subject of politics, if I was an MP then I wouldn't employ you as one of my political researchers, if that's the best you can do.

[joebrown]

Note that there is a similar Travel - Crime Thailand notice on the US State Department website including:

Violent crimes against foreigners are relatively rare. However, murders, rapes, and assaults do occur. These crimes happen most often at night. Frequently, victims, both male and female, have been drinking and are often alone or separated from travelling companions. These crimes have occurred all over Thailand but are most common in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, and tourist areas in southern Thailand, including Phuket, Koh Tao, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, and Krabi. If you are traveling alone, you should exercise caution, stay near other travelers and ensure that friends or family know how to contact you. Sexually motivated violent incidents, committed by both Thai citizens and visitors, are most likely to occur at parties at discos or beaches, such as the Full Moon party on Phangan Island, and Krabi.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/thailand.html

It's very much of the same from the UK GOV website :-

Crime

Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago). In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin on Koh Phanang and in September 2014, 2 British nationals were killed in Tao.

Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province. These are particularly common during the monthly Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars.

Tourists have also been robbed after bringing visitors to their hotel rooms. In some cases their drinks were drugged. Be careful about taking drinks from strangers and at clubs and parties, particularly in Koh Samui, Pattaya and at the Full Moon party on Koh Phangan, where date rapes have been reported.

Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand including Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi. In light of the risk of unprovoked attacks you should be cautious and take care, especially at night.

Alcohol and drugs can lead to you being less alert, less in control and less aware of your environment resulting in accidents, injuries, robbery, assaults and lost travel documents. If you drink, know your limit. Drinks served in bars overseas are often stronger than those in the UK. Some British nationals in Thailand have suffered severe psychiatric problems because of drug use, resulting in some suicides.

I recall that prior to my first visit to LOS I bought the 'Lonely Planet' guidebook, which said more or less the same as the FCO. IMHO there is a glaring omission from all this advice/warnings which is what to expect, or more accurately, what not to expect by way of unbiased, free practical help and advice from Bangkok FCO and Thai Authorities in the event of a serious incident occurring.

[glenmohr]

When you cross through Immigration at the airport or land border you are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand whether you think such judicial system is wrong or not.

However true that might be to you Mr Crab, there will be millions around who would argue that human rights have no borders. By your pic you are old enough to remember Saloth Sar AKA Pol Pot, When Vietnamese troops poured into Cambodia I cannot remember one single person saying hang on you must now you're in Cambodia do everything Pol Pot's way , No Sir quite the opposite the world clapped when the Vietnamese did it their way. What you are saying justifies the terrible deeds done by Hitler because it was done inside his borders, No Sir, No way. When Thailand did not follow a normal duty of care to visitors Hannah David, Nick, Luke et al and more importantly the B2 they have opened themselves to attacks on their sovereignty such as is happening with the Anonymous actions.

You'r not going to next put up that Niemoller quote, are you?e

" First they came for the Burmese and I did not speak out because I am not Burmese

Then they came for Andy Hall and Laura Witheridge and I did not speak out because I am not British

Then they came for anonymous and I did not speak out because I am not anonymous

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me"

[JLCrab]

When you cross through Immigration at the airport or land border you are under the jurisdiction of the Kingdom of Thailand whether you think such judicial system is wrong or not.

However true that might be to you Mr Crab, there will be millions around who would argue that human rights have no borders. By your pic you are old enough to remember Saloth Sar AKA Pol Pot, When Vietnamese troops poured into Cambodia I cannot remember one single person saying hang on you must now you're in Cambodia do everything Pol Pot's way , No Sir quite the opposite the world clapped when the Vietnamese did it their way. What you are saying justifies the terrible deeds done by Hitler because it was done inside his borders, No Sir, No way. When Thailand did not follow a normal duty of care to visitors Hannah David, Nick, Luke et al and more importantly the B2 they have opened themselves to attacks on their sovereignty such as is happening with the Anonymous actions.

You'r not going to next put up that Niemoller quote, are you?e

" First they came for the Burmese and I did not speak out because I am not Burmese

Then they came for Andy Hall and Laura Witheridge and I did not speak out because I am not British

Then they came for anonymous and I did not speak out because I am not anonymous

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me"

No problem -- you've spoken enough for yourself already.

[lucky11]

Note that there is a similar Travel - Crime Thailand notice on the US State Department website including:

Violent crimes against foreigners are relatively rare. However, murders, rapes, and assaults do occur. These crimes happen most often at night. Frequently, victims, both male and female, have been drinking and are often alone or separated from travelling companions. These crimes have occurred all over Thailand but are most common in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, and tourist areas in southern Thailand, including Phuket, Koh Tao, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, and Krabi. If you are traveling alone, you should exercise caution, stay near other travelers and ensure that friends or family know how to contact you. Sexually motivated violent incidents, committed by both Thai citizens and visitors, are most likely to occur at parties at discos or beaches, such as the Full Moon party on Phangan Island, and Krabi.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/thailand.html

It's very much of the same from the UK GOV website :-

Crime

Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago). In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin on Koh Phanang and in September 2014, 2 British nationals were killed in Tao.

Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province. These are particularly common during the monthly Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars.

Tourists have also been robbed after bringing visitors to their hotel rooms. In some cases their drinks were drugged. Be careful about taking drinks from strangers and at clubs and parties, particularly in Koh Samui, Pattaya and at the Full Moon party on Koh Phangan, where date rapes have been reported.

Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand including Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi. In light of the risk of unprovoked attacks you should be cautious and take care, especially at night.

Alcohol and drugs can lead to you being less alert, less in control and less aware of your environment resulting in accidents, injuries, robbery, assaults and lost travel documents. If you drink, know your limit. Drinks served in bars overseas are often stronger than those in the UK. Some British nationals in Thailand have suffered severe psychiatric problems because of drug use, resulting in some suicides.

I recall that prior to my first visit to LOS I bought the 'Lonely Planet' guidebook, which said more or less the same as the FCO. IMHO there is a glaring omission from all this advice/warnings which is what to expect, or more accurately, what not to expect by way of unbiased, free practical help and advice from Bangkok FCO and Thai Authorities in the event of a serious incident occurring.

...............and it's much better in the West?

Compare the crime statistics/murders/robberies in the US to that of the places you listed in Thailand.

One country that I wouldn't feel safe in is the US because of their insane gun laws!!

I'll take my chances in Thailand and intend to avoid the states, as I would be paranoid about whether I would ever get out alive.

[joebrown]

Note that there is a similar Travel - Crime Thailand notice on the US State Department website including:

Violent crimes against foreigners are relatively rare. However, murders, rapes, and assaults do occur. These crimes happen most often at night. Frequently, victims, both male and female, have been drinking and are often alone or separated from travelling companions. These crimes have occurred all over Thailand but are most common in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, and tourist areas in southern Thailand, including Phuket, Koh Tao, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, and Krabi. If you are traveling alone, you should exercise caution, stay near other travelers and ensure that friends or family know how to contact you. Sexually motivated violent incidents, committed by both Thai citizens and visitors, are most likely to occur at parties at discos or beaches, such as the Full Moon party on Phangan Island, and Krabi.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/thailand.html

It's very much of the same from the UK GOV website :-

Crime

Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago). In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin on Koh Phanang and in September 2014, 2 British nationals were killed in Tao.

Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province. These are particularly common during the monthly Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars.

Tourists have also been robbed after bringing visitors to their hotel rooms. In some cases their drinks were drugged. Be careful about taking drinks from strangers and at clubs and parties, particularly in Koh Samui, Pattaya and at the Full Moon party on Koh Phangan, where date rapes have been reported.

Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand including Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi. In light of the risk of unprovoked attacks you should be cautious and take care, especially at night.

Alcohol and drugs can lead to you being less alert, less in control and less aware of your environment resulting in accidents, injuries, robbery, assaults and lost travel documents. If you drink, know your limit. Drinks served in bars overseas are often stronger than those in the UK. Some British nationals in Thailand have suffered severe psychiatric problems because of drug use, resulting in some suicides.

I recall that prior to my first visit to LOS I bought the 'Lonely Planet' guidebook, which said more or less the same as the FCO. IMHO there is a glaring omission from all this advice/warnings which is what to expect, or more accurately, what not to expect by way of unbiased, free practical help and advice from Bangkok FCO and Thai Authorities in the event of a serious incident occurring.

...............and it's much better in the West?

Compare the crime statistics/murders/robberies in the US to that of the places you listed in Thailand.

One country that I wouldn't feel safe in is the US because of their insane gun laws!!

I'll take my chances in Thailand and intend to avoid the states, as I would be paranoid about whether I would ever get out alive.

I assume you're responding to JLC, so I won't comment on your post, as I've no intention of visiting the USA either!

[lucky11]

Note that there is a similar Travel - Crime Thailand notice on the US State Department website including:

Violent crimes against foreigners are relatively rare. However, murders, rapes, and assaults do occur. These crimes happen most often at night. Frequently, victims, both male and female, have been drinking and are often alone or separated from travelling companions. These crimes have occurred all over Thailand but are most common in Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, and tourist areas in southern Thailand, including Phuket, Koh Tao, Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, and Krabi. If you are traveling alone, you should exercise caution, stay near other travelers and ensure that friends or family know how to contact you. Sexually motivated violent incidents, committed by both Thai citizens and visitors, are most likely to occur at parties at discos or beaches, such as the Full Moon party on Phangan Island, and Krabi.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/thailand.html

It's very much of the same from the UK GOV website :-

Crime

Western tourists including British nationals have been victims of vicious, unprovoked attacks by individuals and gangs in Koh Samui, Koh Phangan and Koh Tao (the Samui archipelago). In January 2013 a British national was killed in a shooting incident while at a beach party in Haad Rin on Koh Phanang and in September 2014, 2 British nationals were killed in Tao.

Violent sexual assaults and robberies against both men and women are reported regularly in the Koh Samui archipelago and Krabi province. These are particularly common during the monthly Full Moon parties and generally occur late at night near bars.

Tourists have also been robbed after bringing visitors to their hotel rooms. In some cases their drinks were drugged. Be careful about taking drinks from strangers and at clubs and parties, particularly in Koh Samui, Pattaya and at the Full Moon party on Koh Phangan, where date rapes have been reported.

Attacks have also occurred in other tourist districts in Thailand including Chiang Mai, Pattaya and Krabi. In light of the risk of unprovoked attacks you should be cautious and take care, especially at night.

Alcohol and drugs can lead to you being less alert, less in control and less aware of your environment resulting in accidents, injuries, robbery, assaults and lost travel documents. If you drink, know your limit. Drinks served in bars overseas are often stronger than those in the UK. Some British nationals in Thailand have suffered severe psychiatric problems because of drug use, resulting in some suicides.

I recall that prior to my first visit to LOS I bought the 'Lonely Planet' guidebook, which said more or less the same as the FCO. IMHO there is a glaring omission from all this advice/warnings which is what to expect, or more accurately, what not to expect by way of unbiased, free practical help and advice from Bangkok FCO and Thai Authorities in the event of a serious incident occurring.

...............and it's much better in the West?

Compare the crime statistics/murders/robberies in the US to that of the places you listed in Thailand.

One country that I wouldn't feel safe in is the US because of their insane gun laws!!

I'll take my chances in Thailand and intend to avoid the states, as I would be paranoid about whether I would ever get out alive.

I assume you're responding to JLC, so I won't comment on your post, as I've no intention of visiting the USA either!

I did actually say "in the West" - I used the US as a comparison because the murder rates in the US are in a ratio of about 40 to 1 in the UK, and it puts it in a better perspective as to how safe Thailand really is.

[joebrown]

So you believe everything that is written in newspapers, do you (farcanell).

Thai courts do not use a jury system. The verdict is arrived at by the presiding judge in the case!!

In other words, the 'jury' could not have seen these pictures as there was no jury to see them.

I absolutely do not believe everything that I read in a newspaper.... And I absolutely do not believe everything I read in this forum.

I did say I was happy to be educated, and this morning spent an hour on the net, cross checking various courts and crimes, to see what else was out there, to find a more reliable source than a TV poster

Consequent to that research, I have posted to Eirene on the matter.... But thank you to for your succinct input

So you decided that a foreign newspaper who's reporter had, likely, not been to Thailand recently was better than a TV poster in providing more reliable information on this subject!! Surely, if you had spent an hour surfing the web and all you could find was a newspaper headline of a British newspaper then I would have thought that this might point to an error in the reporter's story.

Don't get me wrong, I will be going to the UK in just over a week's time and I will buy my Daily/Sunday mirror every day of the three weeks I'm there. I have been an avid reader of this paper for all of my life, as it reflects my politics (in the UK). On the subject of politics, if I was an MP then I wouldn't employ you as one of my political researchers, if that's the best you can do.

The fact that you may, or may not be the reader of the Daily/Sunday Mirror or any other UK newspaper is of no importance to me or relevance to this thread.

Sorry, as tempting as it appears to be, I will refrain from taking an obvious 'bait' from such a renowned Troll, as I do value my continued ability to post on TVF. I suggest other TVF members follow my advice.

[joebrown]

...............and it's much better in the West?

Compare the crime statistics/murders/robberies in the US to that of the places you listed in Thailand.

One country that I wouldn't feel safe in is the US because of their insane gun laws!!

I'll take my chances in Thailand and intend to avoid the states, as I would be paranoid about whether I would ever get out alive.

I assume you're responding to JLC, so I won't comment on your post, as I've no intention of visiting the USA either!

I did actually say "in the West" - I used the US as a comparison because the murder rates in the US are in a ratio of about 40 to 1 in the UK, and it puts it in a better perspective as to how safe Thailand really is.

Thanks for the reply. Are you referring to murders/deaths of the general US and/or UK citizens in their home countries? How do the murders/deaths of foreign tourists in those countries compare with Thailand?

Couldn't help notice you didn't respond to the last sentence of my previous post?

[Celer et Audax]

The next question will be about were a retrial is to he heard... KT is a biased jury pool, so in IMHO, the retrial needs to be moved to Bangkok, or somewhere else, were the jury pool has no (or little) vested interest in the case.

Now, that is something that the British consul could attempt to influence, without forcing a loss of face.

No such thing as a jury trial in the LOS