Police

[MaeJoMTB]

In this country I noticed that the attitude is paramount in all circumstances (Sanuk) It is likely that those who complain and snivel incessantly here and elsewhere on TV does not have this quality.

Some people were born to grovel, some weren't.

[FolkGuitar]

1. You really are confused, and ,

2. wakey wakey,you are also an anonymous poster.

3. You are ,as i say, in other readers eyes, also just an anonymous poster, so your post has as little credence as ever to us.Yes?

4. So if your "real" people [who, to us are just more anonymous people, using your logic]who you talk about, are as far out of touch with being "real" as you seem to be then again , you have absolutely no credence.

1. Confused about what, exactly?

2. Well of course I'm an anonymous poster. Did it really take you this long to think of that? ROTFL!

3. Not a bit more than anyone else here. Isn't it amazing though that people get so bent out of shape over what I say? Start flaming me left and right... just as you did...

4. That's right. Not a bit of credence as far as you're concerned. So why do you get so worked up over it?

It must be painful to have an one's paradigm threatened, especially when so many people bolster the threat with their own added experiences.

[happy Joe]

In this country I noticed that the attitude is paramount in all circumstances (Sanuk) It is likely that those who complain and snivel incessantly here and elsewhere on TV does not have this quality.

Some people were born to grovel, some weren't.

If for you smile to others is grovel then I would complain you.

[CMKiwi]

MJMTB,

Being courteous does not imply that one is grovelling.

Or would you rather question everything that comes from an officals mouth? OR Perhaps you are like the military and think the best form of defence is attack?

There is corruption here within these checkpoints without any doubt.

Law abiding people may not come across it in the same ratio as law breakers....which seems logical to me.

Ive experienced it first hand as others have on this forum. Generally we were all law breakers and its very hard to fight the moral high ground as such.

So when a police man pulls you over for an infringement, one tends to be on the back foot from the start.

I firmly believe that should one not break the law then we have a better standing on which to right these wrongs when they occur.

As an aside my helmet now carries a camera. Strange how it deters some police from stopping me at some checkpoints. Or is that sheer coincidence?

I think not.

Edited January 19, 2016 by CMKiwi

[Paul Catton]

Recently returned from holiday in Chiang Mai.

Sister-in-law had loaned us a compliant scooter and helmets to get around the city.

We encountered two police checkpoints during our 9 day stay.

The first, on 6th January about noon at the corner of Praisanee & Tha Phae Rd.

All motorcycles were being pulled over where practical.

The officer was initially dubious about my NZ driving licence with the different class endorsements and asked for an International Drivers Permit.

A brief civil conversation ensued whereby it was pointed out that an IDP was not required and the licence was compliant by law, and off we trundled with thanks and farewells.

The second checkpoint was two days later at the SW corner of the moat by the park, it was around 9.00am and I was returning the scooter as we were departing that morning.

Again, all motorcycles where being pulled over where practical, NZ licence produced and this time immediately waved off with thanks and farewells.

Maybe there could have been a bit of grease palming going on with any of the Caucasian helmetless riders being stopped, if so, we would have been unaware.

The checkpoints did have the feel of being properly organized with safety in mind, as opposed to personal revenue gathering.

[flare]

The checkpoints did have the feel of being properly organized with safety in mind, as opposed to personal revenue gathering.

I don't agree with that. Helmet checkpoints are strictly punitive- non-compliant riders are issued a ticket (or a bribe is extorted) and they are then allowed to go on their way while still not wearing a helmet. In instances where a written form is given, it acts as a 24-hour 'get out of jail free card' which can be shown at other checkpoints to exclude the rider from another fine if he's stopped again soon after. Safety has nothing to do with it- it's about revenue-gathering.

If bikes were impounded until the owners showed up with a helmet, that would be a measure to increase safety- as it stands now, it's simply a tax rather than a benevolent measure. It's better than nothing, certainly, but the tens-of-thousands of baht these checkpoints generate daily are certainly a source of income (illicit or otherwise) that the police would likely not want to eliminate entirely, so the sting of the fine isn't made nearly as bad as it could be, which encourages riders to continue taking chances. Start holding bikes until riders are in compliance, and watch how fast helmet use increases- that likely won't happen, though.

[KMartinHandyman]

No time for ticketing today

[WinnieTheKhwai]

1. You really are confused, and ,

2. wakey wakey,you are also an anonymous poster.

3. You are ,as i say, in other readers eyes, also just an anonymous poster, so your post has as little credence as ever to us.Yes?

4. So if your "real" people [who, to us are just more anonymous people, using your logic]who you talk about, are as far out of touch with being "real" as you seem to be then again , you have absolutely no credence.

1. Confused about what, exactly?

2. Well of course I'm an anonymous poster. Did it really take you this long to think of that? ROTFL!

3. Not a bit more than anyone else here. Isn't it amazing though that people get so bent out of shape over what I say? Start flaming me left and right... just as you did...

4. That's right. Not a bit of credence as far as you're concerned. So why do you get so worked up over it?

It must be painful to have an one's paradigm threatened, especially when so many people bolster the threat with their own added experiences.

Aight, ladies, can we meet in the middle? It seems rarer for a bribe to be actively and blatantly solicited these days, however in many cases -but not always- it's readily accepted, and more or less an unspoken procedure to deal with minor traffic infractions. Drivers may hand over their driver's license with 200 baht tucked underneath it, and that'll be it.

Also, traffic stops are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to police corruption. It's completely systemic in everything they do, even internally when it comes to promotions, etc.

Edited January 20, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[FolkGuitar]

The checkpoints did have the feel of being properly organized with safety in mind, as opposed to personal revenue gathering.

I don't agree with that. Helmet checkpoints are strictly punitive..............

As are most traffic tickets given out, with the exception of DUI and dangerously excessive speeding.

What country impounds cars and motorbikes for minor traffic infractions. While one or two 'may' for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, most do not.

The ticketing for not wearing a helmet IS strictly punitive. That doesn't make it illegal, immoral, corrupt, or wrong.

Edited January 20, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[Berkshire]

Ignore the subject and just attack the person. Direct, and in keeping with the finest ThaiVisa behavior. Good post, Garryjohns.

BTW, do you actually have something to add to the subject of the thread, or are easily verified you just here to talk about other people's actions?

Firstly FG, i am not attacking you.

Simply pointing out easily verified facts.

You are an 'expert' at pushing the limits of being/not being classified a troll.

As for something to add? Actually, quite a few incidents regarding making payment in cash to a policee..[Examples..a couple "You are busy mister? You can pay me now and not go to station police", Another recent one "OK you can pay me, but you not tell people OK! " "Pay me but put money under my folder" etc etc

Not so easily verified but very factual and against your "experience" is 100% that it does happen and is quite common indeed.

I had broken the law, no doubt about that, [that's my issue and not for debate with you] but the contentious issue is whether or not the offer to pay money direct to individual cops instead of going to the police station exists is YES it does.

Maybe not to you, but to many others it has and still does, regularly.

If FG is frustrated, it's because he's constantly having to respond to nonsensical posts which paints an untrue picture of how things are in Thailand. I'm with him on this. The whole point of this thread is whether the police are targeting foreigners for extortion. Do you agree or not?

[flare]

The checkpoints did have the feel of being properly organized with safety in mind, as opposed to personal revenue gathering.

I don't agree with that. Helmet checkpoints are strictly punitive..............

As are most traffic tickets given out, with the exception of DUI and dangerously excessive speeding.

What country impounds cars and motorbikes for minor traffic infractions. While one or two 'may' for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, most do not.

The ticketing for not wearing a helmet IS strictly punitive. That doesn't make it illegal, immoral, corrupt, or wrong.

Really? The fact that you can be stopped, ticketed, and fined for not wearing a helmet doesn't mean it's illegal to do so? No kidding... I thought that was one of the definitions of something being illegal as far as road laws were concerned.

'Immoral', 'corrupt', and 'wrong' are your words, so I'm not sure why you're bothering to use them in the above context as if they're somehow in response to what I wrote- I think not wearing a helmet is foolish, but that's pretty much as far as I'd go.

My contention is that there is no real concern with safety as far as checkpoints go, and that they're more for revenue generation than anything else (which was my response to a post that said otherwise). I didn't say other places impounded bikes, but stated it would be a way to further enforce regulations. If you want to refute that, please go ahead.

Edited January 20, 2016 by flare

[FolkGuitar]

The checkpoints did have the feel of being properly organized with safety in mind, as opposed to personal revenue gathering.

I don't agree with that. Helmet checkpoints are strictly punitive..............

As are most traffic tickets given out, with the exception of DUI and dangerously excessive speeding.

What country impounds cars and motorbikes for minor traffic infractions. While one or two 'may' for riding a motorcycle without a helmet, most do not.

The ticketing for not wearing a helmet IS strictly punitive. That doesn't make it illegal, immoral, corrupt, or wrong.

Really? The fact that you can be stopped, ticketed, and fined for not wearing a helmet doesn't mean it's illegal to do so? No kidding... I thought that was one of the definitions of something being illegal as far as road laws were concerned.

'Immoral', 'corrupt', and 'wrong' are your words, so I'm not sure why you're bothering to use them in the above context.

My contention is that there is no real concern with safety as far as checkpoints go, and that they're more for revenue generation than anything else (which was my response to a post that said otherwise). I didn't say other places impounded bikes, but stated it would be a way to further enforce regulations. If you want to refute that, please go ahead, but at least have the courtesy to quote all relevant parts of a post rather than take something out-of-context.

I'll be gentle here, because in your anger you've obviously mis-read what I wrote. The part that I said was not 'illegal' was the ticketing. Not the issue of the helmet. Read the sentence again and notice that I've embolded the word.

Your contention is that there is no real concern with safety as far as checkpoints go, and that they're more for revenue generation is in many ways correct. Just as is ticketing for parking in a red/white strip zone, ticketing for double parking, ticketing for not have the require documents, or blocking a driveway. It's punitive. It's punishment for violating the existing law. If you break the law, you risk punitive action.

The role of the police is to enforce the laws. It's the role of the law makers to decide why, or if, a law is necessary in the first place. While some ARE created for safety, others are created to insure that things move smoothly for everyone. The police at the checkpoints are not there for your safety. They are there to ticket you if you are violating the law. The cop in the patrol car on the highway stopping people for speeding most likely doesn't give a second thought to safety. He's there to punish people for violating the law.

[Rob13]

[garryjohns]

Shame that it doesn't show it on the video, but all these vehicles must have a big sign on display as such;

"I am an anonymous Thai Visa member and not a real person."

Otherwise this would not be happening ,right?

[FolkGuitar]

I'm wondering what your reason is for posting these videos?

[northernjohn]

Just checking in to see if the going no where complaining is still here.

Was wondering seeing as I walk around a lot if a person has a descent helmet on does it not make it harder for the police to pick out a Farong at a distance especially in the cooler weather?

Most of the ones I have seen pulled over were waved over a ways before they got to the officer.

[JingerBen]

Just checking in to see if the going no where complaining is still here.

Was wondering seeing as I walk around a lot if a person has a descent helmet on does it not make it harder for the police to pick out a Farong at a distance especially in the cooler weather?

Most of the ones I have seen pulled over were waved over a ways before they got to the officer.

Exactly.

The notion that farangs are being targeted at checkpoints is an urban myth here in Chiang Mai.

Wherever you see motorcyclists and motorists stopped by police at these checkpoints the vast majority are always Thai.

There may be individual cops who have it in for farangs, but to think that it is RTP policy to harass foreigners is ridiculous and paranoid.

[FolkGuitar]

Just checking in to see if the going no where complaining is still here.

Was wondering seeing as I walk around a lot if a person has a descent helmet on does it not make it harder for the police to pick out a Farong at a distance especially in the cooler weather?

Most of the ones I have seen pulled over were waved over a ways before they got to the officer.

Exactly.

The notion that farangs are being targeted at checkpoints is an urban myth here in Chiang Mai.

Wherever you see motorcyclists and motorists stopped by police at these checkpoints the vast majority are always Thai.

There may be individual cops who have it in for farangs, but to think that it is RTP policy to harass foreigners is ridiculous and paranoid.

Not just an urban myth, but an outright absurdity.

[JingerBen]

Just checking in to see if the going no where complaining is still here.

Was wondering seeing as I walk around a lot if a person has a descent helmet on does it not make it harder for the police to pick out a Farong at a distance especially in the cooler weather?

Most of the ones I have seen pulled over were waved over a ways before they got to the officer.

Exactly.

The notion that farangs are being targeted at checkpoints is an urban myth here in Chiang Mai.

Wherever you see motorcyclists and motorists stopped by police at these checkpoints the vast majority are always Thai.

There may be individual cops who have it in for farangs, but to think that it is RTP policy to harass foreigners is ridiculous and paranoid.

Not just an urban myth, but an outright absurdity.

Sure, it's an absurdity... and the topic has been done to death here on the TVCM Forum for several years now.

[garryjohns]

I'm wondering what your reason is for posting these videos?

I'll be gentle here, because if not for your confusion it's very obvious why Rob13 posted this video;

In response to your many posts to the contrary,an example of, here is one;

"I've heard of it happening often,..... but ONLY here on ThaiVisa! Despite many road blocks, and even having an expired tax sticker once, I've never experienced any police corruption, nor have I ever heard of any directly from someone who has experienced it themselves."

Well, i'm sure one couldn't get much more direct evidence of corruption than this.Yes? No? You obviously cannot "hear" the experience, but even through your well worn 'rose-tints' you must ,surely, see it.

It must be painful to have an one's paradigm threatened, especially when so many people bolster the threat with their own added experiences.

[CMKiwi]

In reply to the OP....yes there is corruption here but no they aren't just targeting farangs/farlangs/white skinned people.

[garryjohns]

In reply to the OP....yes there is corruption here but no they aren't just targeting farangs/farlangs/white skinned people.

Yes exactly , you are 100% undeniably correct.

[FolkGuitar]

I'm wondering what your reason is for posting these videos?

1. I'll be gentle here, because if not for your confusion it's very obvious why Rob13 posted this video;

In response to your many posts to the contrary,an example of, here is one;

"I've heard of it happening often,..... but ONLY here on ThaiVisa! Despite many road blocks, and even having an expired tax sticker once, I've never experienced any police corruption, nor have I ever heard of any directly from someone who has experienced it themselves."

2. Well, i'm sure one couldn't get much more direct evidence of corruption than this.Yes? No? You obviously cannot "hear" the experience, but even through your well worn 'rose-tints' you must ,surely, see it.

It must be painful to have an one's paradigm threatened, especially when so many people bolster the threat with their own added experiences.

1. Contrary to what? Do you really think the video you posted is somehow contrary to my statement? To which part of my statement?

2. Really... You aren't expecting adults to believe that you think a Youtube video is 'direct evidence' of something, are you. Even I would give you more credit than that!

Let me link to a few dozen videos of UFO's. Would you prefer some video proof of Big Foot instead? How many faked ISIS videos have we seen?

How about a link to my personal favorit; "Best Fake Videos of 2014." Here's the url: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJWxSV7clgM

Edited January 20, 2016 by FolkGuitar

[Teak]

I was riding toward Hangdong yesterday and was pulled over. There was a time, if you were 'white on a motorbike' you were simply too much of a problem to deal with. So off I am pulled, helmet on, sober enough....but left my license back at the hotel. Okay 500 baht fine. Okay I say in Thai to the young policeman "get on the back and we are both going to the police station to pay". "Now...come with me now, Please." That caused a problem. He then showed me a card in English/Thai that stated I can also pay the policeman directly. I then say okay 'loy deo' The policeman looks down and says okay 'loy deo'. I did not have my license with me. I was at fault. I just negotiated a reasonable price for my infraction. It seems to me if we just become a pain in the arse we may just return to the old days when 'white on a motorbike' is easier to just wave on through....Ken

[northernjohn]

In reply to the OP....yes there is corruption here but no they aren't just targeting farangs/farlangs/white skinned people.

The complainers bring to mind a part of the Bible'

They have ears and yet they can not hear.

They have eyes yet they can not see.

[pcliff069]

The OP tells us all he has been targeted. Reads a few posts realised he wasn't duisappears from the conversation. Fairly typical.

[arunsakda]

I was with a Singaporean mate in his car a few years ago, BKK, turning off the highway near Suk Soi 1. Pulled over for no reason other than the cop saw a Farang,on pretense of some kind of illegal turn. . Mate speaks Thai fluently and just kept arguing, took a long while, like 20 minutes. Finally the cop let us go.

If EVERYBODY refused to accept corruption how long could it last?

[garryjohns]

I'm wondering what your reason is for posting these videos?

1. I'll be gentle here, because if not for your confusion it's very obvious why Rob13 posted this video;

In response to your many posts to the contrary,an example of, here is one;

"I've heard of it happening often,..... but ONLY here on ThaiVisa! Despite many road blocks, and even having an expired tax sticker once, I've never experienced any police corruption, nor have I ever heard of any directly from someone who has experienced it themselves."

2. Well, i'm sure one couldn't get much more direct evidence of corruption than this.Yes? No? You obviously cannot "hear" the experience, but even through your well worn 'rose-tints' you must ,surely, see it.

It must be painful to have an one's paradigm threatened, especially when so many people bolster the threat with their own added experiences.

1. Contrary to what? Do you really think the video you posted is somehow contrary to my statement? To which part of my statement?

2. Really... You aren't expecting adults to believe that you think a Youtube video is 'direct evidence' of something, are you. Even I would give you more credit than that!

Let me link to a few dozen videos of UFO's. Would you prefer some video proof of Big Foot instead? How many faked ISIS videos have we seen?

How about a link to my personal favorit; "Best Fake Videos of 2014." Here's the url: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJWxSV7clgM

Riiiiight...... I understand now.

You can lead a fat,old horse to water, but you can't make a fat, old guy drink.

Is it really so painful to have your paradigm threatened, that you have to resort to sheer stupidity in an attempt to save it?

Even from you, i would expect better than this type of attempt at deflection.

Edited January 21, 2016 by garryjohns

[FolkGuitar]

You can lead a fat,old horse to water, but you can't make a fat, old guy drink.

Do you think being childish and calling me names aids your cause? Calling me fat,or calling me stupid because I don't accept your so-called "proof" is nothing more than a juvenile demonstration that you've already fired all your ammo, and they all turned out to be blanks.

Even from you, i would expect better than this type of attempt at deflection.

What are you calling 'deflection?' My asking you how the video you posted is somehow contrary to my statement? In what way is it contrary?

All I see is that you need to call me names rather that deal with the answer... I think you can't answer the question because your video isn't contrary to anything I've said.

So you post a video and call it proof of something. I say the UFO videos, ISIS videos, and Big Foot videos are just as much proof of what they show.

Would you like to tell us why you think your video is more "proof" of something than mine? Or will you just call me names again...

Two simple questions... I'm asking just two. I've asked before and you haven't answered. Are you unable?

[maanoi]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but does FolkGuitar believe there is no corruption at traffic stops in CM / Thailand.

There is corruption all the way to the top. You don't need no video to prove it. If you do, then your head is in the sand.

As i said in my post earlier, i've been stopped over 50 times in CM and never payed a fine that i didnt deserve (expired tax). But i know dam well that there's plenty of bent cops out there working traffic stops.

Edited January 21, 2016 by maanoi