Need Repairer for Water Pump Control Panel

[blackcab]

I have a control panel that pumps water to the roof of a building and I need to get it repaired as it is definitely not working correctly. Does anyone know of a company that repairs these things? At the minute all I can find are companies that want to install a new panel, which really is not necessary.

I've included a few pictures so you can see what I'm talking about:

Edited February 13, 2016 by blackcab

[Crossy]

I assume that's not all the drawings of the beast and there are others.

Is there a company name on the drawings? First port of call.

These things are not rocket science. I was going to say any competent electrical engineer should be able to suss it, but finding one here may be an issue.

What are the symptoms (why do you think it's not working correctly)? Is it a recent problem?

Where are you?

EDIT Of course it's possible that the design was iffy in the first place and it's never worked properly. In which case a new, more modern, panel would be the way to go.

Got any photos with the lid open so we can see what we are really dealing with?

[blackcab]

It's in the Bang Na area. The company I work for bought 2 apartment buildings that are right next to each other, and they are almost identical. Each building has its own water meter, tanks and control panel.

Building A is playing up. Building B is fine with no problems. The buildings were built at the same time by the same company, and the panels look identical, so I'm guessing they are from the same installer. The buildings are about 10 years old. No names anywhere to work with.

When we purchased the buildings everything was working ok. The thing is that when the two panels are opened Building A has obviously had some extra wires added to it, which I presume bypassed a fault rather than repairing it.

At the minute Building A doesn't pump automatically, it has to be turned to manual mode which means someone or other has to keep inspecting the tanks and refilling them to make sure the companies tenants don't turn into the great unwashed.

I'll post pictures in a separate post.

[blackcab]

Building B (this one is ok):

[Crossy]

I would love to look at this, but I'm totally snowed under with my real job

We have everything needed to fix, two units (one working), labelled wiring, drawings.

Since one only works on 'manual' I'd be looking first at the level sensor in the tank rather than the panel itself, relays and contactors are very reliable beasts.

I always worry when something like this has been 'got at' before I get there

[blackcab]

Building A (This one has problems):

[Crossy]

If it has been working even with all the spaghetti I would try and diagnose it as it is now.

1st stop, the level sensor.

[blackcab]

I would love to look at this, but I'm totally snowed under with my real job

We have everything needed to fix, two units (one working), labelled wiring, drawings.

Since one only works on 'manual' I'd be looking first at the level sensor in the tank rather than the panel itself, relays and contactors are very reliable beasts.

I always worry when something like this has been 'got at' before I get there

It's definitely been got at. What amazes me is that if someone knows enough to get it working by adding lots of extra wires, why didn't they simply repair it correctly in the first place rather than leaving it looking like spaghetti junction?

You sound like you need a break. Are you sure I can't temp you? I have an unlimited entertainment budget

[blackcab]

If it has been working even with all the spaghetti I would try and diagnose it as it is now.

1st stop, the level sensor.

OK, I'll get the maintenance guy onto it.

[Crossy]

As to the spaghetti.

I suspect it's there because the under/over voltage trip unit is defective (the orange thing). It would have been easier to simply bypass its output contacts, but such is life.

[sappersrest]

I would certainly bow to Crossys great knowledge and would also suspect it is a level control problem.

The orange box is the level control unit, and looks as if it has been bypassed.

Suspects in order of testing transformer.

Level controls in tank.

Level control unit orange box. (Minilec specialist level control manufactures)

Good luck

[blackcab]

The building manager just spoke to the guy who added all the yellow wires and asked him why.

Turns out when it went wrong the previous owner told him to do what he had to do to get it working because they didn't want to spend any money.

[Crossy]

Level control unit orange box. (Minilec specialist level control manufactures)

It's a phase-failure unit, but I agree it looks to have been bypassed.

https://www.electrikals.com/product/minilec-code-hlv-d2-din-rail-mounted-voltage-sensing-phase-failure-relay-with-underover-voltage-setting-variable?id=25596

+ many on the level switch whatever type it is.

[sappersrest]

Level control unit orange box. (Minilec specialist level control manufactures)

It's a phase-failure unit, but I agree it looks to have been bypassed.

https://www.electrikals.com/product/minilec-code-hlv-d2-din-rail-mounted-voltage-sensing-phase-failure-relay-with-underover-voltage-setting-variable?id=25596

+ many on the level switch whatever type it is.

You are absolutely correct my apologies saw a picture of it on the companies web page under level control and jumped to the wrong conclusion best stick to my day job.

[Bcgardener]

Why not just take the faulty panel back to the same wiring configuration as the working panel and then start fault finding. Obviously the under/over voltage unit would be the first thing to replace if you know it is faulty. Primus in Bangkok can supply you with a suitable unit. However you would need a competent electrician for the fault finding and there lies the problem.

The panel doesnt look to be rocket science and as Crossy said , check the level switches in the tanks first and work back from there.

[Bcgardener]

It looks like all you have in the panel are breakers for two pumps plus their contactors and thermal overloads and maybe control relays for the contactors. The transformer could be to drop the 380 volts down to a lower control voltage. The large relay like device with the clear plastic cover I am not sure about. Looking at the picture on my phone isn't helping.

[Crossy]

G4 is a meaty relay, what its purpose in life is is unclear without a full diagram.

[jamess1970]

Blackcab, I'd have them look at the low level sensor first.From what I see is you will not be able to run in manual if you have low level/pressure upstream of your pumps. They've bypassed it to run the pumps in manual. I engineered in a laundry yrs ago and had booster pumps that required upstream pressure to run either in auto or manual to prevent pump damage. Your panel reminds me of the ones we had which were built by TRW, here is the US. Hope this helps.

James

[blackcab]

Update:

We found the guy that added all the yellow wires. He replaced the broken parts and removed the wires for under 1,500 baht all in. Everything works nicely now.

It kind of shows how cheap the previous owner was. Land and building worth 25 million baht but won't pay to properly repair the water pump control panel.

[Crossy]

Result!

Any indication why his previous "repair" stopped working?

[blackcab]

He replaced a float switch so I am guessing it was that.

Weird looking thing it was. Like two large Kinder eggs attached to a switch by a piece of string.

[sometimewoodworker]

He replaced a float switch so I am guessing it was that.

Weird looking thing it was. Like two large Kinder eggs attached to a switch by a piece of string.

Probably like this?

[blackcab]

Yes, that's it.