Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[Scott]

Posts with unsubstantiated speculation and replies have been removed.

[smedly]

If Mon and his cop friend were at the crime scene about 50 minutes before the next cop arrived (the one who made the claim in his report that David was found in the surf) - Did Mon and/or his friend try to revive David during that nearly an hour? The crime likely wrapped up at 5 am. Mon and his cop friend were among the first at the scene, which could have been within an hour after the crime. Added Q: would there be a reason for Mon and his friend to not want David revived? I have an answer for that (based on circumstantial evidence), but it would anger certain Thai VIP's to hear it. Those who know my posts will know my answer to whether 'Mon had reasons to not want David revived.'

Mon was too busy looking for the Hoe that had vannished, he somehow knew were it was supposed to be and went looking for it eventully finding the gardener who had moved it after which he told him to put it back in the little garden quite a distance from were the bodies were concealed behind the rocks, but somehow he knew it was the murder weapon - right

May I also point out that anyone walking around the beach that night in the dark would have had difficulty noticing the two bodies in the location they were left, my guess looking at the layout you'd have needed to be right in that corner behind the rocks and within a few feet

[TheKnave]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

Everything you say is correct.

But the Court makes the rules and everyone else has to play by them.

Exactly what the hell is your point here? That everyone should shrug their shoulders at this travesty, and go back to their Guinness?

People need to make noise, and plenty of it, until this is reversed.

Really, I can't fathom your comment...

My comment followed on from my earlier comment. Canuckamuck was replying to me.

That is the defence needs to unpick the original guilty verdict in order to win the appeal.

You seem to have completely misunderstood my point.

My apologies, Briggsy, I definitely misunderstood you...

Getting prickly in my dotage, I guess.

Thanks for pointing out my error.

Cheers.

[wowfactor10]

check DNA for all locals who were living on the island during the killings..u then will find the killer or blood related family members from the killer./

Okok nobody cares they got 2 persons already doing time for it..

[Basil B]

Off topic... But as all other threads on the trial have been closed I would just like to post a link that maybe of interest to those who followed the trial, and recall the ban on "taking note".

Seems the this is an issue in the England and Wales courts too... the attached link does debate it and the reasoning behind the decisions so makes good reading, hopefully other threads will open up that it will appropriate to debate it in the next few weeks.

-- BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35576972

[rockingrobin]

If Mon and his cop friend were at the crime scene about 50 minutes before the next cop arrived (the one who made the claim in his report that David was found in the surf) - Did Mon and/or his friend try to revive David during that nearly an hour? The crime likely wrapped up at 5 am. Mon and his cop friend were among the first at the scene, which could have been within an hour after the crime. Added Q: would there be a reason for Mon and his friend to not want David revived? I have an answer for that (based on circumstantial evidence), but it would anger certain Thai VIP's to hear it. Those who know my posts will know my answer to whether 'Mon had reasons to not want David revived.'

If the RTP had Davids iphone serial No. (assumed to be IMEI ), what was the purpose of sending the phone to the UK to verify its owner

[Scouse Twoccer]

I sure was right.

[Khun Han]

^ But he had to come back to check .

[JLCrab]

If Mon and his cop friend were at the crime scene about 50 minutes before the next cop arrived (the one who made the claim in his report that David was found in the surf) - Did Mon and/or his friend try to revive David during that nearly an hour? The crime likely wrapped up at 5 am. Mon and his cop friend were among the first at the scene, which could have been within an hour after the crime. Added Q: would there be a reason for Mon and his friend to not want David revived? I have an answer for that (based on circumstantial evidence), but it would anger certain Thai VIP's to hear it. Those who know my posts will know my answer to whether 'Mon had reasons to not want David revived.'

The Coroner's Court for the late Ms. Witheridge stated that Ms. Witheridge's wounds were

"... Consistent with multiple blows from the blade of a hoe and it was likely she would have died 'rapidly'." 9 FEB 2016

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6917201/Mother-of-murdered-British-backpacker-Hannah-Witheridge-23-reveals-she-begged-her-not-to-go-to-Thailand.html

Is there some similar credible statement out there stating the contrary for the Late Mr. Miller?

[silverado]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Edited February 16, 2016 by silverado

[JLCrab]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

[silverado]

sure the most of us were satisfied with the "credible" reenactment showed by the "credible" rtp helped by the "credible" translators....

[KunMatt]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

[JLCrab]

A post above suggested that, with prompt attention, the late Mr. Miller might have been revived. The Coroner's report said that the late Ms. Witheridge likely died 'rapidly' from her injuries. So I guess the suggestion in that above post was that Mr. Miller did not die 'rapidly' from his wounds and was deliberately not revived.

[lucky11]

The question is why a smashed IPhone, why would you take a iPhone and smash it then leave it on your property , hardly makes sense, especially after committing a crime, you'd be more inclined to throw the phone in the ocean......................................... .

......and who would go swimming in the sea, drunk, in the early hours of the morning in the rain only to conveniently lose their clothes, not be able to find them one of them sobered up enough a few hours later to go and look for them. The bonus was that he found some sunglasses and an iphone lying there on the beach. What an amazing night that was!!

Somehow, they caught wind that a gruesome murder had taken place the night before and thought oh!! maybe the phone and sunglasses might belong to one of those murdered and so we might get implicated in the murder and had better smash them up and get somebody to ditch them for us.

Yeh right, pull the other one.

Well done Lucky!! That is probably as close to the truth as what has been reported so far!

Were you there by any chance?

Never been to Koh Tao - this probably answers your question.

[lucky11]

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

Thank you -- but I wrote 'credible'.

So would you believe that Hannah's horrific injuries that killed her rapidly from being hit with a hoe are consistent with the dozen lacerations that David received that may have only knocked him unconscious?

We know that he didn't die quickly, as when he was dragged out into the surf he must have still been breathing as he died from drowning (the autopsy found water in his lungs).

[boomerangutang]

check DNA for all locals who were living on the island during the killings..u then will find the killer or blood related family members from the killer./

Okok nobody cares they got 2 persons already doing time for it..

You're suggesting things which would ascertain who the real killers are. That's obviously not what RTP or any Thai VIP's care about. They've fingered scapegoats, so they have to maintain their ruse. Their top priority is to continue to shield the Thai people who are willing to spend many millions of dollars to protect their family members. If Brit officials knew how such things happened in Thailand, perhaps they wouldn't have been so hands-off in their non-investigation.

post #129

just look at the wounds of David...

just compare hanna's wounds inflicted with the hoe and david's ones....

just compare david's wounds and what was showed during the circus reenactment...

no need of a Bs rtp statment , just look at the pics and just wait for the uk coroner 's report, inquest result about david's death

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

[DM07]

What is wrong with us????

He was found in the surf (kind of trickle at the end of a wave) - not sure that it is feasible that a small body of water can turn a body over.

I'm pretty sure that when the police found him that they wouldn't have left him lying face down in the water - they should have photographed him before turning him over and then taking a second photo so that people like you don't get confused so easily!!

Wait...what?

So according to your theory (more likely: artful piece of comedy!), the RTP found David face down in the surf, turned him over (to do what...exactly) and then left him there (now face up) and went their merry way, so that some time later someone could take that picture of him, face up in the water?

Is that what you are saying?

[lucky11]

What is wrong with us????

He was found in the surf (kind of trickle at the end of a wave) - not sure that it is feasible that a small body of water can turn a body over.

I'm pretty sure that when the police found him that they wouldn't have left him lying face down in the water - they should have photographed him before turning him over and then taking a second photo so that people like you don't get confused so easily!!

Wait...what?

So according to your theory (more likely: artful piece of comedy!), the RTP found David face down in the surf, turned him over (to do what...exactly) and then left him there (now face up) and went their merry way, so that some time later someone could take that picture of him, face up in the water?

Is that what you are saying?

All I am saying was that he drowned and therefore must have been left face down in the sea by the murderers (B2 according to the courts).

[mrrizzla]

The true perps did indeed drown David in a pretty horrible way. And a quite popular way of drowning down their in the islands if you cross the mafia. Unfortunately for David he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[kiwikeith]

serial number of David Miller’s iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

it adds nothing

Wasn't that property owned by the suspected Mon mafia man , the same one seen walking all over the crime scene spreading his DNA around and having a good old conflab with his police buddies.

The phone means nothing, or should mean nothing, the same as the bungled DNA should be tossed into the garbage can and the B2 released.

[MockingJay]

The phone proves nothing, even it it would have been found at the B2 home. It is circumstantial evidence at best. Anyone could have been at the site after the murder and rape and simply have taken the phone... Think the word supposedly says it all...

This "trial and investigation" was one of the lowest points EVER in Thai history!!! May Koh Tao be hit by a meteorite just big enough to destroy that cesspit of an island. Everyone living there is guilty for keeping their mouths shut and the tourists present (especially the ones from Britain) should have boycotted that rotten rock ever since.

[greenchair]

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.

They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.

They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.

They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.

So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.

Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.

Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

Edited February 17, 2016 by greenchair

[DM07]

We, the general public, are still waiting for Brit experts to do their jobs. Maybe they're taking order from Donald Trump, "delay, delay, delay."

They did do their job, according to the article.

They proved the phone found at the b2 apartment (you know the one that Wei Phyo himself says he "found" at 4am ) conclusively belongs to the murdered victim.

They then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation.

They helped the rtp, because they believe that the b2 are indeed the perpetrators, and were concerned about the safety of brit citizens should the b2 remain free.

So nobody wants to believe the Thai police, the Thai courts.

Now, nobody wants to believe the brit police either.

Let's face facts, all of the defense arguments have come from csi la and Thai visa.

We all know by now, that you are a bit thick, but let me spell it out for you:

1) it is the phone that was presented by the RTP, that THEY SAID...and so on and so on, I guess, you know the rest! was Davids, was found, was in possession of...)

2) as far as I understand: even IF the phone belonged to David and even if -at some time- it was in the possession of the B2...the way this "evidence" was aquired from the UK, seems to be somehow fishy -not to say: illegal!- in which case, it is as telling as a confession, aquired under torture and should not even have any place in this -so called- judicial case!

3) even IF the phone belonged to David and even if -at some time- it was in the possession of the B2...that still doesn't make them killers or rapists or even thieves!

Remember?

They got the death sentence!

4) They proved nothing at all!

[Khun Han]

^ I think you're being a bit unfair calling some posters thick. They have their remit to keep attention focussed on the B2 and away from the real murderers, and they are carrying out that remit in their own individual ways and to the best of their abilities.

[greenchair]

Recently in my, a philipino lady was found raped and dumped on the side of the road dead. There were no witnesses and no clues.

1 person had seen a grey car in the area .the police showed the person the different cars as the witness could not remember the make. The witness thought it was probably a Toyota. The police collected the name and registration for every grey Toyota in the area, then looked for known criminals within that.

One man stood out, so they searched his home. He had washed his car from Top to bottom. The police found only the victims purse and a knife with the victims dna . the man originally confessed but recanted.

He said, he had found the purse on the road far from the scene.

He said, the police had planted the dna evidence on the knife and contaminated the scene.

The judge said "mate you have had 3 months in jail doing nothing to cook up this story ".unbelievable. bam down went the hammer. Guilty.

[mrrizzla]

Recently in my, a philipino lady was found raped and dumped on the side of the road dead. There were no witnesses and no clues.

1 person had seen a grey car in the area .the police showed the person the different cars as the witness could not remember the make. The witness thought it was probably a Toyota. The police collected the name and registration for every grey Toyota in the area, then looked for known criminals within that.

One man stood out, so they searched his home. He had washed his car from Top to bottom. The police found only the victims purse and a knife with the victims dna . the man originally confessed but recanted.

He said, he had found the purse on the road far from the scene.

He said, the police had planted the dna evidence on the knife and contaminated the scene.

The judge said "mate you have had 3 months in jail doing nothing to cook up this story ".unbelievable. bam down went the hammer. Guilty.

Ok.

This relates to this case how?

The crime scene on Koh Tao was compromised and heavily contaminated from the get go.

Evidence was poorly collected or "lost".

Certain individuals refused to give over CCTV footage from their businesses.

The B2 were tested weeks and weeks before the police suddenly decided they were guilty.

The top cop on the case pointed the finger to local mafias then was quickly 'reassigned'.

B2 tortured into confession and the translator used didn't even speak their dialect.

Dna evidence 'lost' and 'used up'.

Translators working for media outlets received threats and named the Island mafias as the people making the threats.

Other suspects in the case disappearing for days on end after the murders...

This case wouldn't of even made it to trial in most places in the world. The B2's fate has been bought and paid for. You maybe gullible enough (or are trust plain trolling) to believe it but most of the rest of the world don't.

[boomerangutang]

Greenchair asserts; "They (Brit authorities) then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation. "

That reminded me of another assertion, not sure by whom (but never denied by anyone) that Brit authorities passed investigative data to Interpol in re; to the KT crime. Perhaps it was data re; interviews with friends of D and H who had returned to the UK, or perhaps an interview with Sean in Italy. Or maybe it included David's autopsy, which no non-official has yet seen. Regardless, the fact remains that only Thai authorities (the folks who are maintaining the frame-up) have access to Interpol data. The defense don't. Yet another proof, if any were needed, that Brit authorities are aiding the RTP/prosecution while disadvantaging the defense. Another way to view it: Brit experts are increasing the likelihood of both boys being executed - in stark contradiction to express UK policy. Perhaps it's time to call UK authorities on the carpet, and start an investigation to see how many laws they've broken.

[greenchair]

So far the brits have been quite limited in how much they can divulge about this case.

So far they have confirmed, yes indeed the 2nd victim was raped,in contrast to andy and defense team allegations that the UK autopsy did not show rape.

Secondly, the brit investigators have revealed that the phone found at the b2 apartment does indeed belong to David.

Who knows what other little tidbits they have but cannot reveal.

Hope those "real killers"from Thai visa come forward soon ".

??

Edited February 17, 2016 by greenchair

[JLCrab]

Greenchair asserts; "They (Brit authorities) then passed that information on to the rtp, to assist in their investigation. "

That reminded me of another assertion, not sure by whom (but never denied by anyone) that Brit authorities passed investigative data to Interpol in re; to the KT crime. Perhaps it was data re; interviews with friends of D and H who had returned to the UK, or perhaps an interview with Sean in Italy. Or maybe it included David's autopsy, which no non-official has yet seen. Regardless, the fact remains that only Thai authorities (the folks who are maintaining the frame-up) have access to Interpol data. The defense don't. Yet another proof, if any were needed, that Brit authorities are aiding the RTP/prosecution while disadvantaging the defense. Another way to view it: Brit experts are increasing the likelihood of both boys being executed - in stark contradiction to express UK policy. Perhaps it's time to call UK authorities on the carpet, and start an investigation to see how many laws they've broken.

So maybe you should change your line about the Headman being willing to spend millions of USD to the Headman being willing to spend millions of GBP.