Hatari Air Purifier (HT-AP12) - fan speed for 24 hour running?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/21/2018 at 8:04 AM, THAIJAMES said:

For those that can't afford to buy a hepa air filter, here is a way to build your own for the cost of the filter only:

https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/make-diy-air-purifier/

(a lot of good air quality articles on the above site)

 

 

On the subject of making a do-it-yourself HEPA air purifier, I noticed lately that both HomePro and Foodland Markets in BKK at present are selling a 448b Hatari cyclone-type fan (8 in size I believe) that has an absolutely FLAT front surface and probably would work well for a do-it-yourself project.

 

I bought one of them today at Foodland just to play around with, and if all else fails, just use as a regular fan in the house. HomePro stocks them on an ongoing basis, but I think their presence in Foodland is a temporary, promotional thing.

 

Here's the page for the fan from HomePro's website:

https://www.homepro.co.th/product/1046779

 

I went today in person and eyeballed this model, the Hatari HT-PS20M1, at first HomePro and later Foodland, and it looks to me like it would be suitable for a do-it-yourself purifier like the approach James linked to above at smartairfilters.com.

 

For a do-it-yourself HEPA purifier, you need a couple of things:

1. the fan, and this model might well do.

2. the carbon prefilter material, which is pretty easy to get off Lazada or elsewhere.

3. the tougher part, a suitable HEPA filter, which is kind of a hard thing to find here as a standalone purchase. Right now, I'm thinking to buy the Hatari HEPA filter for 888b, since everything else I've seen is more or ridiculously more expensive here.

4. And then lastly, the straps and possibly duct tape necessary to secure the HEPA filter and carbon prefilter together, and then the straps to secure both to the front of the fan.

 

I noticed the other day that Hatari also is selling a 100 baht spare prefilter for their purifier from their website, so I was thinking to kind of use that as a hard frame, attach the carbon prefilter to that, and then both of those to the Hatari HEPA filter, and then attach all to the front of the Hatari fan.

 

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/products/air-purifier/685

 

    

 

The smallest dimension on the Hatari HEPA filter is listed as being about 25.4 cm or 10 inches. So that should adequately cover the front face of the Hatari cyclone fan above. Indeed, I just measured the front surface of the fan, and it's 9 inches side to side, so the filter should cover it and fit fine.

 

So....

888 baht for the HEPA filter

100 baht for the pre filter holder

a bit extra for the carbon prefilter sheet (which I already have at home)

448 baht for the Hatari cyclone fan

a bit extra for the straps and/or duct tape, most of which I also already have at home,

 

and the end result is around 1500 baht, or a bit more depending on where/how much you pay for the carbon prefilter sheets.

 

I'm gonna give it a try. The main question I have right now is, the body of the fan doesn't have a very deep sealed area along the exterior of the fan housing only about 2 inches deep in front of and behind the actual fan blades, with the remaining portion behind the fan blades being an open grill material. So I don't know how much air deflection is likely to occur once you slap the filters on the front of the fan.

 

And of course, whether it actually works as intended!!!

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hobz]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

On the subject of making a do-it-yourself HEPA air purifier, I noticed lately that both HomePro and Foodland Markets in BKK at present are selling a 448b Hatari cyclone-type fan (8 in size I believe) that has an absolutely FLAT front surface and probably would work well for a do-it-yourself project.

 

I bought one of them today at Foodland just to play around with, and if all else fails, just use as a regular fan in the house. HomePro stocks them on an ongoing basis, but I think their presence in Foodland is a temporary, promotional thing.

 

Here's the page for the fan from HomePro's website:

https://www.homepro.co.th/product/1046779

 

I went today in person and eyeballed this model, the Hatari HT-PS20M1, at first HomePro and later Foodland, and it looks to me like it would be suitable for a do-it-yourself purifier like the approach James linked to above at smartairfilters.com.

 

For a do-it-yourself HEPA purifier, you need a couple of things:

1. the fan, and this model might well do.

2. the carbon prefilter material, which is pretty easy to get off Lazada or elsewhere.

3. the tougher part, a suitable HEPA filter, which is kind of a hard thing to find here as a standalone purchase. Right now, I'm thinking to buy the Hatari HEPA filter for 888b, since everything else I've seen is more or ridiculously more expensive here.

4. And then lastly, the straps and possibly duct tape necessary to secure the HEPA filter and carbon prefilter together, and then the straps to secure both to the front of the fan.

 

I noticed the other day that Hatari also is selling a 100 baht spare prefilter for their purifier from their website, so I was thinking to kind of use that as a hard frame, attach the carbon prefilter to that, and then both of those to the Hatari HEPA filter, and then attach all to the front of the Hatari fan.

 

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/products/air-purifier/685

 

    

 

The smallest dimension on the Hatari HEPA filter is listed as being about 25.4 cm or 10 inches. So that should adequately cover the front face of the Hatari cyclone fan above. Indeed, I just measured the front surface of the fan, and it's 9 inches side to side, so the filter should cover it and fit fine.

 

So....

888 baht for the HEPA filter

100 baht for the pre filter holder

a bit extra for the carbon prefilter sheet (which I already have at home)

448 baht for the Hatari cyclone fan

a bit extra for the straps and/or duct tape, most of which I also already have at home,

 

and the end result is around 1500 baht, or a bit more depending on where/how much you pay for the carbon prefilter sheets.

 

I'm gonna give it a try. The main question I have right now is, the body of the fan doesn't have a very deep sealed area along the exterior of the fan housing only about 2 inches deep in front of and behind the actual fan blades, with the remaining portion behind the fan blades being an open grill material. So I don't know how much air deflection is likely to occur once you slap the filters on the front of the fan.

 

And of course, whether it actually works as intended!!!

 

The grunluft HEPA filter is even cheaper. Can order from lazada (pay on delivery).

Only problem is it's rectangular it's not square.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/gruenluft-hepa-filter-vk-s60063-i135384013-s153033803.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.4.55b244b0iP7lFU&search=1

 

U should get it probably 3-4 days after ordering.

 

They also have activated carbon and charcoal filters. Same size as the hepa.. makes a nice stack.. just need to find two square fans that stack together to fit the filters.

 

I can give you the exact measurements if you are interested. As I have them at home.

Edited March 24, 2018 by hobz

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, hobz said:

The grunluft HEPA filter is even cheaper. Can order from lazada (pay on delivery).

Only problem is it's rectangular it's not square.

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/gruenluft-hepa-filter-vk-s60063-i135384013-s153033803.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.4.55b244b0iP7lFU&search=1

 

U should get it probably 3-4 days after ordering.

 

They also have activated carbon and charcoal filters. Same size as the hepa.. makes a nice stack.. just need to find two square fans that stack together to fit the filters.

 

I can give you the exact measurements if you are interested. As I have them at home.

 

 Thanks. Actually, I don't think a rectangular shaped front end would be a big problem. So you'd end up having two edges stick out a bit more than the other two edges. I think that's still manageable, as long as there isn't too much excess.

 

The Hatari fan above probably would do great -- in terms of fit -- with a 10 inch by 10 inch front filter portion. Anything rectangular that's reasonably close to that should be OK, I think?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

18 minutes ago, hobz said:

I can give you the exact measurements if you are interested. As I have them at home.

 

Thanks Hobz... Yes, what are the length and width dimensions of those?

 

[hobz]

37 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks Hobz... Yes, what are the length and width dimensions of those?

 

40cm x 30cm

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, I found your Gruenluft, or Grunluft, air purifier company in China, operating under a different name. Have a lot of info there about the unit you bought, along with quite a few other purifier models.

 

http://www.gruenluft.com/product-show.asp?MID=385&ID=415

 

Their website and brand goes by the name you have, but the actual company name in China who makes the product is Xiamen Voke Health Technology Co.

 

Don't see anything on AliExpress under Gruenluft or Grunluft or Xiamen Voke, which seems odd, considering they're a China based company.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edwardandtubs]

You guys are doing the DIY thing all wrong. You're looking at a weak fan and a crap HEPA filter. You need a strong fan and a decent HEPA filter. Ignore all the other gimmicks like activated charcoal. You need to be sure that you're getting a very high quality HEPA filter. The fan that I posted earlier works really well with the smart air filters.

[hobz]

44 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

You guys are doing the DIY thing all wrong. You're looking at a weak fan and a crap HEPA filter. You need a strong fan and a decent HEPA filter. Ignore all the other gimmicks like activated charcoal. You need to be sure that you're getting a very high quality HEPA filter. The fan that I posted earlier works really well with the smart air filters.

Can you elaborate on differences in HEPA filters? 

The one I posted claims to filter out 99.97% of particles. it's "true HEPA" according to seller. 

[hobz]

7 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Your last photo, there's no LCD display at all on the machine where it should show micrograms of PM2.5..

 

Did your girlfriend's mom blow the machine off the scale???

Yeah i swear it was showing 300 when I took the photo.

There's like a millisecond every other second when it blinks and shows nothing.

I think it doesn't go over 300 because it got stuck there and then climbed back down to good values later.

 

I also think it's actually showing the AQI not the pm2.5. Because it considers 50 as good. 50 pm2.5 is not good. 50 AQI is good...

But it clearly says pm2.5 ug/m3 next to the number..

So I think the auto fan has a problem then.. because if the pm2.5 is at 50.. it's still running at low when it should run at medium.. because it thinks 50 is good....

something is definitely wrong.

Maybe I need to get a different pm2.5 detector and compare.

Or ask the manufacturer.

 

 

[sfokevin]

On a similar view of the DIY... I want to design a system that draws air from the outside of the house thru a hepa filter to give the house a positive inside air pressure so all the air gaps that I have on the numerous sliding doors (All new but with no rubber seal to speak of) and the gaps I know I have in the dozens of pots lights in the ceiling thruout the house... I’m thinking of using a standard exhaust fan from HomePro that would be installed in a wood box that also has a filter in it that could be mounted on a hole in an outside wall sucking air from the outside in thru the filter...

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/product/1008018

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

33 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

On a similar view of the DIY... I want to design a system that draws air from the outside of the house thru a hepa filter to give the house a positive inside air pressure so all the air gaps that I have on the numerous sliding doors (All new but with no rubber seal to speak of) and the gaps I know I have in the dozens of pots lights in the ceiling thruout the house... I’m thinking of using a standard exhaust fan from HomePro that would be installed in a wood box that also has a filter in it that could be mounted on a hole in an outside wall sucking air from the outside in thru the filter...

 

https://www.homepro.co.th/product/1008018

 

 

 

Funny you should mention that. I've got two of those installed at either end of my main living area (front and back), both reversible in and out flow. Long before I got into the air pollution thing, I was hoping to use them for ventilation and to save on air con. But in both cases, whether blowing in or out, the Toshiba model I have seems to let some mosquitoes inside, which I want to avoid, because of the way the units are designed.

 

However, LATELY, I've been thinking in the same vein about trying a Filtrete sheet on a firm prefilter plastic kind of thing, or even a HEPA filter box, to both filter the air AND keep the mozzies out. But I know if I put up a HEPA filter alone, HEPA filters being invariably expensive, that it's going to get clogged with gunk within a week. And I'm not shelling out 700-800 baht a week for new HEPA filters. So I'd pretty much have to combine the HEPA with a carbon prefilter sheet to take the majority of the airborne gunk.

 

I've been toying with that notion, alongside the fan notion. In either project, the HEPA filter and carbon prefilter I'd be using probably could be used either way.

 

BTW, the fan diameter of those wall/window fans is even smaller than the Hatari cyclone fan I mentioned above.

 

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

You guys are doing the DIY thing all wrong. You're looking at a weak fan and a crap HEPA filter. You need a strong fan and a decent HEPA filter. Ignore all the other gimmicks like activated charcoal. You need to be sure that you're getting a very high quality HEPA filter. The fan that I posted earlier works really well with the smart air filters.

 

As I just mentioned above, at least here where I live in BKK, if I put up a solo HEPA filter with no prefilter to handle air being sucked into my home from outside, the HEPA filter would get clogged up with gunk in no time. Same thing already happens to the window fan blades of the style SFOKevin posted above. If I run them even sporadically for a week, by the end of the week, they're all coated with wads of black gunk. I'd be ruining an expensive HEPA filter in no time, and for no good reason when a less expensive carbon prefilter would catch the majority of that gunk and keep the HEPA filter clean and functioning.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

You guys are doing the DIY thing all wrong. You're looking at a weak fan and a crap HEPA filter. You need a strong fan and a decent HEPA filter. Ignore all the other gimmicks like activated charcoal. You need to be sure that you're getting a very high quality HEPA filter. The fan that I posted earlier works really well with the smart air filters.

 

I think you posted about this fan in the separate Bangkok Air Pollution thread, 14 inch size fan? So that's going to need at least a 36 x 36 cm filter to cover the fan front face...

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/mira-14-m-144-i166044-s153628.html

 

The Mira fan says it has 1250 rpm.

 

The Hatari fan I mentioned above, with a smaller 8 inch fan blade, has specs that say it goes up to 1754 rpm. And it has an absolutely flat front surface grill.

 

Unfortunately, in looking thru Hatari's online catalog of fans, they don't seem to have a single other cyclone style model. The 8 inch variety looks to be their only fan of that style.

 

https://www.hatari.co.th/en/products/portable/822

 

I think it's worth at least trying the 8 inch model and seeing what results.

 

BTW, it looks like the DIY HEPA filters that the SmartAirFilters site is using for their two DIY purifiers are square 11.65 x 11.65 inches (296 x 296 mm), and come with an attached pre-filter. So they're not just running the HEPA filters naked.

 

https://smartairfilters.com/cn/en/product/cannon-purifier-hepa-filter/

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

All this talk about HEPA filters makes me think about a quick story that's worth telling, and probably will make any purifier owner here want to cry.

 

I've mentioned a couple times that I have here a Honeywell 50250 "beast" air purifier from the U.S. What I didn't mention, I don't think, is that I bought it new more than 10 years ago, and it had been used a few years in the U.S. and then virtually not at all during its time in Thailand, until just recently.

 

When Honeywell brought out the 50250 model, one variant of it (the one I have) came with what Honeywell called a LIFETIME HEPA filter that supposedly never needed to be replaced. Just use the carbon prefilter and change those as needed, and then hand vacuum the exterior of the HEPA filter periodically, and it's supposed to be good for the life of the machine.

 

So, this past month, when I got into the air pollution issue here, I got out the old 50250 model with its original purchase HEPA filter still installed, changed the old carbon prefilters to brand new ones, and fired it up. And low and behold, the unit that's designed to cover 300 sf. ft. is cleaning just about that same area in my living room and kitchen, and the 10+ year old HEPA filter is knocking down the PM2.5 levels to single digits usually within a half hour of the time I turn it on.

 

When I think about the lifetime HEPA filter I've got for my Honeywell, and then consider in comparison the fact that most of the air purifier manufacturers here don't even make replacement filters readily available, much less include LIFETIME HEPA filters when they sell the purifier units, it's certainly enough to make me want to cry!  If only here you could buy it once and then pretty much forget it...

Edited March 24, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sfokevin]

Just a general observation about air infiltration... In my house the main lounge is connected to the dining and kitchen in an open plan... When I cook and turn on the exhaust fan over the stove or the grill alcove  my PM 2.5 sensor in the lounge goes from single digits to 30 in a few minutes... Basically the exhaust fan creates a vacuum that sucks outside air from every outside nook and cranny... I now make a point to adjust my filters in the space to high before turning on the fans...

Edited March 25, 2018 by sfokevin

[edwardandtubs]

As I said in my earlier post, the Mira fan just needs a bit of sellotape to seal the smart air filter. It increases filtration because almost the whole surface area of the filter is being used rather than a small circle in the middle.

 

On the other hand, the hatari fan you posted does seem quite powerful so maybe superior in that way. 

 

But why use crap filters like the hatari ones? Buy a bunch of the Smart Air ones and it's cheaper and better. The Canon ones come with a pre-filter but the original ones don't. I prefer to use the original and change them often. Here's what 6 months in Bangkok looks like:

Edited March 25, 2018 by edwardandtubs

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

With the AQI levels in CM reaching the 170 to almost 200 range in recent days, anyone with a PM2.5 sensor up north want to post on what kind of readings they're getting indoors, and how well or not their air purifiers are keeping up with the task???

 

Fortunately,, BKK isn't so bad right now (not good either) with about 100 AQI outside which equals about 35 micrograms of PM2.5, and is right at the highest moderate level and the lowest unhealthy for sensitive groups level.

 

Indoors, my air purifier, running on medium fan, is keeping my bedroom at about 10 mcg during the afternoon and down to the 2-5 mcg levels at night, both firmly in the "good" air quality category.

 

[sfokevin]

I’m in Hang Dong just south on CM...

Outdoors 2.5pm = 128-134pm

Lounge 2,5pm = 12-16pm

Bedroom 2.5pm = 6-9pm (Last Night)

I have the Xaiomi Air Purifiers (2s & 2) one in lounge and another in adjoining dining room... and another in the bedroom

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, sfokevin said:

I’m in Hang Dong just south on CM...

Outdoors 2.5pm = 128-134pm

Lounge 2,5pm = 12-16pm

Bedroom 2.5pm = 6-9pm (Last Night)

I have the Xaiomi Air Purifiers (2s & 2) one in lounge and another in adjoining dining room... and another in the bedroom

 

 

Kevin, thanks much for the post above....

 

You've been running your purifiers longer than me at this point. Do you have any feel for how much difference running them ends up making in your monthly electric bill?

 

I'm not looking forward to getting my next bill in a few days... Before it was air con. Now it's air con plus air purifiers.  I'm nervous....

Edited March 30, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[sfokevin]

^^^ They are rates at 40 watts each... Given my 3k baht electric bill it’s a drop in the bucket...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, I just realized (me being an American who does poorly with the metric system and math in general) that I've been using the wrong measurement term to refer to PM2.5...

 

I've wrongly been using the measurement term of "micrograms," and I now realize, the correct measurement term for PM2.5 and PM10 is MICROMETERS. Sorry for the error!

 

 

I never could figure out how to find the symbol for "micrometers" on my Thai-EN Windows keyboard, so today I went hunting for it, and found it's accessible via the Character Map mini-program in Win 10.

 

µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ  -- live and learn....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

^^^ They are rates at 40 watts each... Given my 3k baht electric bill it’s a drop in the bucket...

 

Glad to hear that!

 

My Sharp unit in the bedroom, which normally I run on medium, is rated at 30 watts, and 51 watts if I run it on high, which I rarely have needed to do.

 

But my "beast" Honeywell 50250 in the much larger living room is rated at 100, 165 and 200 watts on L/M/H, and I'm usually running it on medium most of the time.

 

So the Sharp bedroom unit running about 12 hours a day at 30 watts, and then the Honeywell living room unit (when we're home) running the other 12 hours a day at 165 watts...

 

Needless to say, that's another reason I didn't want to be running the Honeywell all night and overnight into the mornings in the bedroom -- in addition to still using it in the living room-kitchen during the days.

 

But, while my Sharp unit is basically a perfect fit capacity-wise for our 18 sf mt main bedroom, I've got a combined open living room-kitchen area that's almost 50 meters. And the less expensive Sharp unit and others like it just aren't going to handle that -- unless I went out and started buying and maintaining multiple purifiers.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, I was doing some small cooking in the kitchen in the past couple days -- no flame/gas at all and no visible smoke. But nonetheless, it drove my PM2.5 sensor thru the roof.... Went from 6µ to 80µ indoors in a matter of moments...

 

And that was just roasting some peanuts in the toaster oven at 120C, and making some waffles in an electric waffle maker. So I now realize, my cooking is contributing to Thailand's PM2.5 problem!!!

[ExpatOilWorker]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, I just realized (me being an American who does poorly with the metric system and math in general) that I've been using the wrong measurement term to refer to PM2.5...

 

I've wrongly been using the measurement term of "micrograms," and I now realize, the correct measurement term for PM2.5 and PM10 is MICROMETERS. Sorry for the error!

 

 

I never could figure out how to find the symbol for "micrometers" on my Thai-EN Windows keyboard, so today I went hunting for it, and found it's accessible via the Character Map mini-program in Win 10.

 

µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ µ  -- live and learn....

You have correctly been using micro gram/m3 for your PM2.5 measurements. The above article is just describing the size of the PM2.5 particles.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You have correctly been using micro gram/m3 for your PM2.5 measurements. The above article is just describing the size of the PM2.5 particles.

 

Oyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Now I've got a headache... and really embarrassed!!!! 

Edited March 30, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[edwardandtubs]

10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, I was doing some small cooking in the kitchen in the past couple days -- no flame/gas at all and no visible smoke. But nonetheless, it drove my PM2.5 sensor thru the roof.... Went from 6µ to 80µ indoors in a matter of moments...

 

And that was just roasting some peanuts in the toaster oven at 120C, and making some waffles in an electric waffle maker. So I now realize, my cooking is contributing to Thailand's PM2.5 problem!!!

Next experiment: take your sensor outside and measure the air quality right next to one of the many barbecue street hawkers.

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, I was doing some small cooking in the kitchen in the past couple days -- no flame/gas at all and no visible smoke. But nonetheless, it drove my PM2.5 sensor thru the roof.... Went from 6µ to 80µ indoors in a matter of moments...

 

And that was just roasting some peanuts in the toaster oven at 120C, and making some waffles in an electric waffle maker. So I now realize, my cooking is contributing to Thailand's PM2.5 problem!!!

Food aroma can't hardly be described as a hazard, so safe to conclude that not all PM2.5 is bad.

 

Does the sensor react to a good old fart?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, edwardandtubs said:

Next experiment: take your sensor outside and measure the air quality right next to one of the many barbecue street hawkers.

 

They're SMOKIN!  My indoors stuff isn't, at least, not visibly...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Does the sensor react to a good old fart?

 I can honestly say... I haven't tested that yet!

 

But, I'm guessing, that would be more in the category of VOC as opposed to PM2.5! 

[ExpatOilWorker]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Oyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Now I've got a headache... and really embarrassed!!!! 

Lots of fun fact here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particulates

 

Like: "Because salt spray over the oceans is the overwhelmingly most common form of particulate in the atmosphere, anthropogenic aerosols—those made by human activities—currently account for about 10 percent of the total mass of aerosols in our atmosphere."